Digital Nomads

[blorg]

2 minutes ago, perthperson said:

They will not do that but they will squeeze them out by making visa exempt entries problematic (done),  removing double/triple entry TVs(done), ensuring back to back SETVs are increasingly difficult to obtain (work in progress) , improving  airport scrutiny/detection of suspected abusers of the system (work in progress)  and etc, etc ...

 

The digital pests easy life in the LOS is coming to an end ! 

I think if they do all this, if someone is actually truly a digital nomad the obvious response will be just to spend less time in Thailand, as if they are actually a "nomad" they are not tied to here, they just like it here. There's no reason they can't just go somewhere else. So spend three months here, go to Bali for three months, come back, go to Malaysia or Japan for three months or whatever. Or buy the Elite visa if they really, really like it here THAT much. 

[bkkcanuck8]

6 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Teachers probably have work permits and no where did I mention that I wanted people locking up so do not put words in my mouth.

 

The way Thailand is going is pointing towards stiffer punishment for those breaking employment laws.

 

There is no "grey" area over pension payments in Thailand. The law is very clear, look it up rather than making wild sweeping statements.

The problem with illegal employment is it is not "just" an administrative immigration offence but puts you offside of many criminal laws such as tax evasion especially on money earned in Thailand.

[Flustered]

Digital Nomads will be the death of many a countries economy if you follow their logic through to it's natural conclusion.

 

In today's world, more and more jobs can be carried out via a laptop only. A Digital Nomad will find a nice comfortable country where the weather is good and the food/accommodation cheap. From here they will work happily away at their laptops earning money in other countries and avoiding tax wherever possible by being non resident in those countries. and probably having an off shore accommodation/tax address.

 

The just transfer(bring-ATM) enough money to live on to the country of your choice, claim that you are helping their economy by paying rent and buying food and watch the local people in the same business as you who cannot compete as they have to register and pay local taxes, slowly go broke.

 

Digital Nomads.......... the rodents of today's high tech world.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, blorg said:

I think if they do all this, if someone is actually truly a digital nomad the obvious response will be just to spend less time in Thailand, as if they are actually a "nomad" they are not tied to here, they just like it here. There's no reason they can't just go somewhere else. So spend three months here, go to Bali for three months, come back, go to Malaysia or Japan for three months or whatever. Or buy the Elite visa if they really, really like it here THAT much. 

Being actually nomadic when it comes to being a digital nomad....  is a much better option because you are not invested or tied to working from a specific location.  Immigration will question you less if you say spend 6 months outside Thailand and 6 months in.  I believe many nomads take the option of getting a "business letter" from a Vietnamese company and working from home in HMC etc.  Anywhere you can have a computer with a decent internet connection - you can work fairly easily in the modern economy if you have reasonably valuable skills.  I don't really consider just popping up a blog or knocking of a web front to be that valuable since they are more commodity options - but in todays society where you can flip 15 minutes of fame into a sizeable business for rather mundane things like video blogging you game playing... obviously society values things differently than many would wish... but that has always been the case.

[bkkcanuck8]

8 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Digital Nomads will be the death of many a countries economy if you follow their logic through to it's natural conclusion.

 

In today's world, more and more jobs can be carried out via a laptop only. A Digital Nomad will find a nice comfortable country where the weather is good and the food/accommodation cheap. From here they will work happily away at their laptops earning money in other countries and avoiding tax wherever possible by being non resident in those countries. and probably having an off shore accommodation/tax address.

 

The just transfer(bring-ATM) enough money to live on to the country of your choice, claim that you are helping their economy by paying rent and buying food and watch the local people in the same business as you who cannot compete as they have to register and pay local taxes, slowly go broke.

 

Digital Nomads.......... the rodents of today's high tech world.

Tax systems can be adapted.....  "Income" (business) has not been necessarily the best method (you can go through years of nothing for the government then get flooded - spend everything then a deeper hole when you have a famine again....  If you charge a GST/VAT on all goods and services in a country - even services consumed from offshore (with the onus of the consuming entity to make sure it is paid for services)  [I.e. if your invoice does not contain a GST reference the company is responsible for submitting the GST to the government on services bought]

 

Before the stealth layoff 40% of IBM's global workforce of 380,000 worked from home.... that is 150,000 employees.  If you can work from home - why would you not place that home where you like to live -- whether that is overseas or right next to the company offices?

 

I guess anyone that can work from home is considered vermin to you.

Edited July 19, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[blorg]

@Flustered- a pension is income.

 

Siam Legal say income tax is due on:

 

• Pensions and retirement pay brought into Thailand

http://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

Here's an opinion from the Thai Revenue that a Norwegian national retired here is liable to Thai taxes if there are here over 180 days a year: 

 

In Thailand pension income is regarded as assessable income under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code. A resident of Thailand must declare his worldwide income on the basis that the income received from abroad in a tax year must be brought into Thailand within the same year, based on Section 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. Therefore for a Norwegian individual who has stayed in Thailand for more than 180 days in a tax year shall declare his worldwide income including pension income received in Norway and file tax return using the tax return form P.N.D. 90 or P.N.D. 91 (if the individual only receives pension income, P.N.D. 91 will be used).

 

http://download.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf

 

I'm aware there are various loopholes and I'm aware of the "income brought into country same year" thing, so that if you put your income into savings and then only bring in the savings the following year that may exempt you. But I'm also aware that many retirees don't do this and have their pension paid directly into a Thai bank account.

 

I'm also aware that this is not a focus at all for Thai authorities, but it is very much a "grey area".

 

I'm only mentioning this as people are getting up on their high horse and some of these very same people may not be totally compliant according to the letter of the law themselves.

[bkkcanuck8]

10 minutes ago, blorg said:

@Flustered- a pension is income.

 

Siam Legal say income tax is due on:

 

• Pensions and retirement pay brought into Thailand

http://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

Here's an opinion from the Thai Revenue that a Norwegian national retired here is liable to Thai taxes if there are here over 180 days a year: 

 

In Thailand pension income is regarded as assessable income under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code. A resident of Thailand must declare his worldwide income on the basis that the income received from abroad in a tax year must be brought into Thailand within the same year, based on Section 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. Therefore for a Norwegian individual who has stayed in Thailand for more than 180 days in a tax year shall declare his worldwide income including pension income received in Norway and file tax return using the tax return form P.N.D. 90 or P.N.D. 91 (if the individual only receives pension income, P.N.D. 91 will be used).

 

http://download.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf

 

I'm aware there are various loopholes and I'm aware of the "income brought into country same year" thing, so that if you put your income into savings and then only bring in the savings the following year that may exempt you. But I'm also aware that many retirees don't do this and have their pension paid directly into a Thai bank account.

 

I'm also aware that this is not a focus at all for Thai authorities, but it is very much a "grey area".

 

I'm only mentioning this as people are getting up on their high horse and some of these very same people may not be totally compliant according to the letter of the law themselves.

I believe the Norway case was special was it not?  Most western countries you have tax deducted from income (since technically you earned in the income in the year you worked -- i.e. before you came to Thailand; while the tax was deferred) at the source - and since there are typically tax agreements with regards to double taxation and pension income... there is not a reason to tax locally then deduct tax already paid because it would always add up to $0.  i.e. if A person from a country other than oil rich Norway gets paid income - they will always get tax deducted in their home country before the money is deposited into a Thai bank account.  Therefore Norway is the exception, and the other countries are the norm.

Edited July 19, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[perthperson]

7 minutes ago, blorg said:

@Flustered- a pension is income.

 

Siam Legal say income tax is due on:

 

• Pensions and retirement pay brought into Thailand

http://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

Here's an opinion from the Thai Revenue that a Norwegian national retired here is liable to Thai taxes if there are here over 180 days a year: 

 

In Thailand pension income is regarded as assessable income under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code. A resident of Thailand must declare his worldwide income on the basis that the income received from abroad in a tax year must be brought into Thailand within the same year, based on Section 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. Therefore for a Norwegian individual who has stayed in Thailand for more than 180 days in a tax year shall declare his worldwide income including pension income received in Norway and file tax return using the tax return form P.N.D. 90 or P.N.D. 91 (if the individual only receives pension income, P.N.D. 91 will be used).

 

http://download.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf

 

I'm aware there are various loopholes and I'm aware of the "income brought into country same year" thing, so that if you put your income into savings and then only bring in the savings the following year that may exempt you. But I'm also aware that many retirees don't do this and have their pension paid directly into a Thai bank account.

 

I'm also aware that this is not a focus at all for Thai authorities, but it is very much a "grey area".

 

I'm only mentioning this as people are getting up on their high horse and some of these very same people may not be totally compliant according to the letter of the law themselves.

Stop posting nonsense and tell use about Thailand's tax treaties enacted with many other countries which exempts all pensions which are taxed in their county of origin being subject to any Thia tax.

 

Siam legal is a very poor source of info. Their web pages are stuffed with major error and 'misinterpretations' 

 

Ok ...................................

[blorg]

1 minute ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I believe the Norway case was special was it not?  Most western countries you have tax deducted from income (since technically you earned in the income in the year you worked -- i.e. before you came to Thailand; while the tax was deferred) at the source - and since there are typically tax agreements with regards to double taxation and pension income... there is not a reason to tax locally then deduct tax already paid because it would always add up to $0.

I don't believe it is no. I believe the general principle is that a pension is income (this is the case in any Western country I'm aware of) and if you are actually retired in Thailand, here for over 180 days, you are tax resident HERE and you should be declaring this income on a Thai tax return. You may be able to take advantage of exemptions and so on to pay no tax but I think it's pretty clear you should be filing a return and that's what the Thai authorities say, "officially" if you look it up.

 

I know basically no-one does it, and if you ask the authorities they may well in fact tell you to go away, but that just illustrates that as with many things Thailand, there is what is written, and what actually happens.

 

And while Thailand does have double taxation treaties with I believe 49 countries, it does not have double taxation treaties with every country in the world, and there are many European countries it doesn't have tax treaties with...

[perthperson]

Just now, blorg said:

and there are many European countries it doesn't have tax treaties with..

Name them all ---- Thanks...............

[blorg]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

Stop posting nonsense and tell use about Thailand's tax treaties enacted with many other countries which exempts all pensions which are taxed in their county of origin being subject to any Thia tax.

 

Siam legal is a very poor source of info. Their web pages are stuffed with major error and 'misinterpretations' 

 

Ok ...................................

Perthie, my understanding legally with regard the double taxation treaties is that if you spend over 180 days a year you are tax resident HERE in Thailand, not in your home country, and you SHOULD be filing and paying Thai tax HERE. What the tax treaty would exempt you from is paying it in your home country.

 

But besides this point, there are many countries Thailand does NOT have a tax treaty with, and these nationals don't pay tax on their pensions here any more than the ones that do. And no-one is filing.

 

Come up with your own sources that clearly say you don't have to, if you like, but I have just provided you with a source from both a well known Thai law firm, and the Thai government themselves.

[chickenslegs]

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Name them all ---- Thanks...............

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/766.0.html

[blorg]

5 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Name them all ---- Thanks...............

Iceland, Portugal, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, Greece, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Moldova, Lichtenstein, Malta

 

From a quick check. I know they didn't have one with my own home country of Ireland until only last year, just found out looking it up they put one in place in 2016.

[bkkcanuck8]

11 minutes ago, blorg said:

I don't believe it is no. I believe the general principle is that a pension is income (this is the case in any Western country I'm aware of) and if you are actually retired in Thailand, here for over 180 days, you are tax resident HERE and you should be declaring this income on a Thai tax return. You may be able to take advantage of exemptions and so on to pay no tax but I think it's pretty clear you should be filing a return and that's what the Thai authorities say, "officially" if you look it up.

 

I know basically no-one does it, and if you ask the authorities they may well in fact tell you to go away, but that just illustrates that as with many things Thailand, there is what is written, and what actually happens.

 

And while Thailand does have double taxation treaties with I believe 49 countries, it does not have double taxation treaties with every country in the world, and there are many European countries it doesn't have tax treaties with...

First pension income is not income earned in the current year.  You do not defer income -- you defer taxation of that income to when supposedly you will be in a lower tax bracket.  For example, I can leave Canada and I can have pension income -- but the Canadian government (regardless of residency) will withhold that deferred tax right up until the day you die.  There are all sorts of bilateral tax agreements with regards to pension income so even if you were deemed a tax resident here.... I would be assessed a Thai tax rate, deduct my Canadian tax and be left with no tax bill... that is why pension income is generally ignored... because all you are doing is generating paper.   Norway however is an exception where they allow you to cease being a tax resident and do not withhold that deferred tax -- as such the amount that is owed is owed to Thailand (since there is no longer a bilateral agreement in force if Norway does not tax you).  Again a special case.  

 

If I did not put the money in a "tax shelter" it would just be an a savings account and I would have already been taxed when it was earned... just because you defer the taxation does not mean that you did not earn it.... I still fill out the entire amount I earned  then deduct the amount I put into a tax shelter to come up with a net amount for taxation purposes... it was still earned when you were first employed.

 

The only other difference between the two is that a pension is typically a defined income where as tax sheltered savings are defined contribution.

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[perthperson]

Just now, blorg said:

Iceland, Portugal, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, Greece, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Moldova, Lichtenstein, Malta

 

From a quick check. I know they didn't have one with my own home country of Ireland until only last year, just found out looking it up they put one in place in 2016.

You provide no reference source so that statement is valueless.

[blorg]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

You provide no reference source so that statement is valueless.

Oh <deleted> where are your reference sources? And @chickenslegs already posted the source which is the Thai government.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/766.0.html

[bkkcanuck8]

There is a similar principal applied to working trans-nationally.  The country where you earn the income deducts tax at source, but the country you reside... you are still liable.  Generally this is done by you filing your tax form in the country of residency the income earned, calculate you taxable amount, deduct the tax paid on that income from the country you received that money from and are assessed the difference.  Pension income is generally treated the same way in most tax jurisdictions.  (it actually can even be more of a nightmare in the US since technically you should be prorating your tax by time in each state - so when I was a consultant technically I should have paid state income in many many states.... though this is generally not enforced... if you have a permanent residence and don't make the hotel you are currently in your only residence.

 

Most western countries the tax assessed is higher than here.

Edited July 19, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[blorg]

7 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I would be assessed a Thai tax rate, deduct my Canadian tax and be left with no tax bill... that is why pension income is generally ignored... because all you are doing is generating paper.

It's not just "generating paper" because even if the net result to you is no different the result of who gets that tax money  is completely different, whether Thailand or your home country gets it. And the argument being made here constantly, is that you should be paying your taxes where you are actually living, and using the services (roads, infrastructure, etc).

[blorg]

The overarching point with this, is that (1) you are still liable for making a tax return here as a tax resident, even if you end up with zero liability, (2) Thailand definitely DOES NOT have tax treaties with many countries, yet retirees from those countries don't declare their income here either.

 

I'm just pointing out that there is a letter of the law and what is actually done in practice here, yet you point this out and immediately all the old codgers start getting mighty defensive.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, blorg said:

It's not just "generating paper" because even if the net result to you is no different the result of who gets that tax money  is completely different, whether Thailand or your home country gets it. And the argument being made here constantly, is that you should be paying your taxes where you are actually living, and using the services (roads, infrastructure, etc).

In the case of pension income though -- you are not actually earning that income now.... you earned it decades ago.  It is the difference between a savings account and an annuity account.... Savings - you earn the money and you put the money in an account when you withdraw it out later (you do not earn it when you withdraw it).  Annuity I deposit a set amount with the contract that you pay me back over the next n years a set amount per year until I die.  Again no difference ... you don't earn the money now. Norway though sort of turns things on their head by basically not treating it that way -- effectively messing things up if you move out of the country.

 

I don't claim to be an expert in tax law - but I have been doing software development on software that has to track this sort of stuff for 25 years.

Edited July 19, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[Mattd]

This has gone a bit off topic, but certain pension income could well be subject to tax if you are resident in a country like UK for example, so if you were receiving a state pension and a private pension (regardless of type) that is based in the UK and the combined amount of these pensions exceeds the tax allowances for your circumstances, then you are liable for tax.

Most private pension payments that were made during the working years had tax relief, so to say it isn't earned now from an income tax perspective is not really correct, all the government did is defer the tax payment!

[Flustered]

58 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

I guess anyone that can work from home is considered vermin to you.

If you chose to live in a country, work from there and not pay tax on income earnt while working from that country, then yes, vermin.

 

You are denying that country legitimate tax. In other words, a tax dodger and cheat.

[blorg]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

The just transfer(bring-ATM) enough money to live on to the country of your choice, claim that you are helping their economy by paying rent and buying food

...just like the pensioners

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 hour ago, blorg said:

if they do all this, if someone is actually truly a digital nomad the obvious response will be just to spend less time in Thailand, as if they are actually a "nomad" they are not tied to here, they just like it here.

Exactly. The heated hatred some people show towards DN here is most likely actually rooted in envy.

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Exactly. The heated hatred some people show towards DN here is most likely actually rooted in envy.

There is always envy regardless if people see you have something they were not able to for whatever reason.

 

Before people would never think of living outside of the country they retired in because the logistics of getting paid in one country, sending it half way around the world where you were living would have been difficult if not impossible in many cases.  (they send you a cheque, you try to deposit it locally and if they did it they would send the cheque back to the country of the cheque - cash it - the money received at time of settlement in that account then eventually getting credited back into your local account where you would get your cash by going to a teller etc (pre ATM) -- eventually something would go horribly wrong and you would starve to death.....  

 

Those same "advances" in electronic payments now have filtered into being able to work in many cases in locations other than you are actually employed because a large part of the economy the product delivered is electronic in nature.  This has lead to people not only being able to live after retirement in foreign countries, but now can actually move earlier.  

 

Some digital nomads (not all) count on the fact that the taxation systems have not caught up to do work in one country, get paid into an account in another, and live in a third (or multiple) to avoid taxation -- but then on the other side they are not consuming those services that many take for advantage -- the two largest being health and education (in Canada at least) along with roads, public defenders and an eventual pension or other income..... so it is not all a free ride... just a more libertarian ride.  Eventually as the economy forces things the source of tax income will change from one of income to other sources such as sales or services taxation etc.   People only see one side of the equation in many cases -- and in many cases envy with jealousy at how someone else is able to do something you were not or are not.

[bkkcanuck8]

30 minutes ago, Flustered said:

If you chose to live in a country, work from there and not pay tax on income earnt while working from that country, then yes, vermin.

 

You are denying that country legitimate tax. In other words, a tax dodger and cheat.

The country that people are working from (in this case Thailand) are denying themselves legitimate tax by not having a consistent policy between all government departments.  Immigration has chosen to treat foreign income from foreigners who are not otherwise employed in Thailand foreign employed (this might change at any time by a different interpretation).  Filing Thai taxes while not being a resident is only asking for a world of hurt -- and would only end up putting you in a very difficult position.  Of course as a non-resident with no ties to Thailand - you have no right to any of the services provided to any resident other than any other tourist would have.  It does not mean you are using the roads for free since you are still paying taxes through sales, luxury, gas, immigration fees etc. which should be more than enough funds to pay for things in the same way it pays for things for tourists.

[Flustered]

24 minutes ago, blorg said:

...just like the pensioners

 

23 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Exactly. The heated hatred some people show towards DN here is most likely actually rooted in envy.

 

5 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

There is always envy regardless if people see you have something they were not able to for whatever reason.

 

Before people would never think of living outside of the country they retired in because the logistics of getting paid in one country, sending it half way around the world where you were living would have been difficult if not impossible in many cases.  (they send you a cheque, you try to deposit it locally and if they did it they would send the cheque back to the country of the cheque - cash it - the money received at time of settlement in that account then eventually getting credited back into your local account where you would get your cash by going to a teller etc (pre ATM) -- eventually something would go horribly wrong and you would starve to death.....  

 

Those same "advances" in electronic payments now have filtered into being able to work in many cases in locations other than you are actually employed because a large part of the economy the product delivered is electronic in nature.  This has lead to people not only being able to live after retirement in foreign countries, but now can actually move earlier.  

 

Some digital nomads (not all) count on the fact that the taxation systems have not caught up to do work in one country, get paid into an account in another, and live in a third (or multiple) to avoid taxation -- but then on the other side they are not consuming those services that many take for advantage -- the two largest being health and education (in Canada at least) along with roads, public defenders and an eventual pension or other income..... so it is not all a free ride... just a more libertarian ride.  Eventually as the economy forces things the source of tax income will change from one of income to other sources such as sales or services taxation etc.   People only see one side of the equation in many cases -- and in many cases envy with jealousy at how someone else is able to do something you were not or are not.

First, pensioners living in Thailand are not Digital Nomads evading taxes. They have earnt their money in their home countries, paid tax on them and are now spending that money in Thailand. They are not tax evaders. The vast amount of pensioners living in Thailand would never dream of evading taxes. They have paid their way in life and are not living on the efforts of others.

 

Envy? don't make me laugh. In my last year of work in Iraq, I paid over £200K in tax to Gordon Brown even though I could have evaded this I do not evade tax, I pay my way and certainly are not envious of a tax evading cheat who thinks he is above the laws of the land. What have I to be envious about? 

 

Digital Nomads who evade taxes in the country they are working from and enjoying are nothing more than scum. To be pitied, not envied.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Digital Nomads will be the death of many a countries economy if you follow their logic through to it's natural conclusion.

 

In today's world, more and more jobs can be carried out via a laptop only. A Digital Nomad will find a nice comfortable country where the weather is good and the food/accommodation cheap. From here they will work happily away at their laptops earning money in other countries and avoiding tax wherever possible by being non resident in those countries. and probably having an off shore accommodation/tax address.

 

The just transfer(bring-ATM) enough money to live on to the country of your choice, claim that you are helping their economy by paying rent and buying food and watch the local people in the same business as you who cannot compete as they have to register and pay local taxes, slowly go broke.

 

Digital Nomads.......... the rodents of today's high tech world.

As long as you agree that Online Merchants like Amazon are doing the same thing - including destroying local businesses - then we agree on the nature of the problem.  I don't like unfairness, either.  Sometimes you can "do something" about it, other times not.  I do not think the solution is to limit the freedom of movement of economically self-supported people just so they can be "income taxed" properly.  More below on what would work much better.

 

Also note that that same "local business" who is paying those local taxes, will be competing with that same remote-worker, regardless of which country the remote-worker lives.  The remote-worker can move to Peru - on the other side of the planet - and still be exactly as competitive as if he lived next-door.  On a larger-scale, you would need to abolish all tax-free nations - Cayman Islands, Isle of Mann, etc - otherwise the "big boys" are the only ones who get the breaks - and they would, in theory, be paying the lion's share of the taxes without their offshore entity options.

 

As to Thailand, and it's techs being disadvantaged - try to find Thai tech-help on any of the main outsourcing sites.  I have, when researching whether to incorporate here - didn't find many Thai techs.  And what would be their English level, if I did?  My business's clients, world-wide, use English as a common language.  Maybe, when my Thai is up to it, I will reconsider relocating my business here and hiring locals.  But then, there is that 2M Baht I'd need in the bank - don't need that anywhere else, and not being brick/mortar, it is unnecessary.  The most I would reasonably need to have on hand, is enough to cover payroll for a month + any "end of job" termination-benefits (again, assuming the business hired Thais - otherwise, not even that). 

 

I'd much prefer to pay taxes here - in a country which is not actively-working to create policies which make it's citizens unemployed and dependent on foreign-made goods (why I left the USA, in the first place).

 

15 minutes ago, Flustered said:

If you chose to live in a country, work from there and not pay tax on income earnt while working from that country, then yes, vermin.

You are denying that country legitimate tax. In other words, a tax dodger and cheat.

 

"Cheat" - to break the rules.  If someone is breaking the rules/law, only then, yes.  The solution to all those talking about owing tax in Thailand, is simply to have a 1-year expense budget, and keep the funds elsewhere for a year, before bringing them here.  It's only taxable in Thailand if sent here in the year earned.  That isn't 'cheating' - though it may seem 'unfair' that those with a bit more savings can avoid taxes which those who don't cannot.  I agree - it isn't fair.  So let's consider a better way for govt to pay it's bills.

 

Starting at the beginning: Why was it ever the govt's business to know what you make in earnings and who paid you?  When introduced, the "income tax" in my country was only for the top 1% - and it should have stayed that way.  Earn more than $1M USD in a year?  Then, maybe that is workable - a tiny group of collectors/accountants and large-returns per taxed-person - very efficient.  What we have, instead, is a huge bureaucracy with a massive invasion of privacy to boot.  It also creates a barrier to people rising beyond a certain level of wealth, because as their incomes rise, the taxes start eating up a larger and larger of the additional income they earn.  If they ever reach "filthy rich" - then no problem; but "in between" those income-taxes are savings/security killers.

 

My solution?  Much better to use VAT, with a defined annual-kickback to all locals, so the poor don't get slammed in terms of tax-burden as a % of income.   Do that, and only the non-resident foreigners would pay VAT on the first X-Baht of taxes.  Turns the tables on the locals getting hammered - no?  It would also mean that even drug-dealers pay taxes.  No one gets a pass - as so many do now.  Add in import-tariffs, and you have a solid system that encourages local production of goods and services.  Finally, make it cost next to nothing to start a business - minimum capital - just enough to cover likely-liabilities for the type of business.  Business activity is "good" - should be encouraged, not discouraged.

 

[blorg]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Digital Nomads who evade taxes in the country they are working from and enjoying are nothing more than scum. To be pitied, not envied.

What about pensioners evading tax in the country they are living in for over 180 days a year? At the end of the day what this comes down to is simply, I'm in one group and not the other.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

 

 

First, pensioners living in Thailand are not Digital Nomads evading taxes. They have earnt their money in their home countries, paid tax on them and are now spending that money in Thailand. They are not tax evaders. The vast amount of pensioners living in Thailand would never dream of evading taxes. They have paid their way in life and are not living on the efforts of others.

 

Envy? don't make me laugh. In my last year of work in Iraq, I paid over £200K in tax to Gordon Brown even though I could have evaded this I do not evade tax, I pay my way and certainly are not envious of a tax evading cheat who thinks he is above the laws of the land. What have I to be envious about? 

 

Digital Nomads who evade taxes in the country they are working from and enjoying are nothing more than scum. To be pitied, not envied.

A majority of "digital nomads" pay tax in the country they are earning income from - in many cases they are still incorporated there.  Those people still have access to local services in that country, but not here.  Regardless of whether you are a pensioner who is not taxed here, a digital nomad who is not taxed here, or a tourist who is not taxed here.... you are using exactly the same services here (in most cases - basically roads).