How Much Sin-sod Did You Pay?

[Mid]

to qualify ,

Income Tax ..........

[cdnvic]

don't know of too many 'guests' who pay tax !!

I know many. It's what you do when you earn money (legally), but it doesn't make you special. Paying taxes is part of doing business. I don't know of any country where paying taxes gives you the rights of citizenship.

[Heng]

[elle]

Elle - would a Thai man have given your parents 300,000 baht and never asked for anything in return?

Should man give a divorced woman's family a 'sin sot'?

Do you give your parents a monthly income too?

The parents of the guy living in a village closed by used to approached my parents and they offered 500k plus 10 Baht goal, and a truck as a sin sot. My parents wanted me to marry him but I refused as I already dated my husband and never believe in an arrange marriage.

I always give my parents monthly income. I have done it since I got my first job. I am doing it not because I have to but I love and am really happy to do it. Now, I am married to a farang and living in a farang country and I still give my parents monthly money...every single dollar is from my own sweat as I also have quite a good job here. Plus, my husband is very supportive and understanding. He understands the difference in western and Thai culture.

To me, the sin sot is for every woman regardless of her marital status. This also depends on you and the family, your woman. I was raised up in a simple village and was never told that there isn't a sin sot for a divorced woman.

Westerners were brought up from a complete different culture. Some are used to their ways. I think they would be so narrow-minded if they ever think the culture or practice, which is different from theirs, is a scam or not the right thing to do. It doesn't hurt to respect the culture of a country in which you live. You have brain and you have choices. Choose and do whatever it's good for you but do not be too judgmental by saying that it's a scam because nobody does it in your home country.

[TAWP]

What a crap some people can produce here. Did he say: When in Rome live like the Romans? I say: When in Thailand live like the Thais. Thais pay sim sot, at least the majority of them. If you don't like thai culture and traditions, move on, you're a guest here, guests behave or leave.

Joe

So if the majority does something, all foreigners have to follow it?

And if it is of any interest to you, my wife hate the idea of sin sod, hence I didn't even know about the concept when we married. I only discovered it later on when we moved back here again...

[SanukJoe]

Elle - would a Thai man have given your parents 300,000 baht and never asked for anything in return?

Should man give a divorced woman's family a 'sin sot'?

Do you give your parents a monthly income too?

The parents of the guy living in a village closed by used to approached my parents and they offered 500k plus 10 Baht goal, and a truck as a sin sot. My parents wanted me to marry him but I refused as I already dated my husband and never believe in an arrange marriage.

I always give my parents monthly income. I have done it since I got my first job. I am doing it not because I have to but I love and am really happy to do it. Now, I am married to a farang and living in a farang country and I still give my parents monthly money...every single dollar is from my own sweat as I also have quite a good job here. Plus, my husband is very supportive and understanding. He understands the difference in western and Thai culture.

To me, the sin sot is for every woman regardless of her marital status. This also depends on you and the family, your woman. I was raised up in a simple village and was never told that there isn't a sin sot for a divorced woman.

Westerners were brought up from a complete different culture. Some are used to their ways. I think they would be so narrow-minded if they ever think the culture or practice, which is different from theirs, is a scam or not the right thing to do. It doesn't hurt to respect the culture of a country in which you live. You have brain and you have choices. Choose and do whatever it's good for you but do not be too judgmental by saying that it's a scam because nobody does it in your home country.

Here here!!!! Thanks

[SanukJoe]

What a crap some people can produce here. Did he say: When in Rome live like the Romans? I say: When in Thailand live like the Thais. Thais pay sim sot, at least the majority of them. If you don't like thai culture and traditions, move on, you're a guest here, guests behave or leave.

Joe

So if the majority does something, all foreigners have to follow it?

And if it is of any interest to you, my wife hate the idea of sin sod, hence I didn't even know about the concept when we married. I only discovered it later on when we moved back here again...

It's ok, I've said several times: if you don't want to pay, don't pay. If you don't know and your wife doesn't tell you, fine! Nobody forces you, but nobody should criticise those who stick to the culture.

Majority. It used to be tradition in all of Thailand but BKK has become westernised, so you won't find a lot of people supporting it there. That's why I said majority. Still, when a majority sticks to the culture, we guests certainly have to stick with it, no doublt about it.

Joe

[britmaveric]

Respect is mutual!!! And I wouldn't say its the majority by any means - some do some don't. One isn't any less cultured for not having sinsot arrangement than one who does.

Edited January 4, 2007 by britmaveric

[SanukJoe]

Respect is mutual!!! And I wouldn't say its the majority by any means - some do some don't. One isn't any less cultured for not having sinsot arrangement than one who does.

You're absolutely right! But, why some farangs have to insult people who stick to a culture that the majority of Thais follow?

In our western world majority rules, they call it democracy. Greek words: demos = the people, cratos = power

Joe

[TAWP]

Have people really insulted those that pay, in this thread?

I recall reading complaints that those that hadn't payed was cheapskates...

[SanukJoe]

Have people really insulted those that pay, in this thread?

I recall reading complaints that those that hadn't payed was cheapskates...

Yes sir, dick heads who have no idea they shouldn't pay one penny. Old farts with no hair who say sanook and ting tong, plenty of insults believe me. I can have it, I don't care, but it's not the idea of a forum to insult fellow members.

I respect anyone who is proud of not having paid sin sot, let everyone respect those people who paid sin sot, voluntarily and with happiness!

Fact is that sin sot is followed by most Thais and who are we farangs to criticise that?

Joe

[SanukJoe]

QUOTE(SanukJoe @ 2007-01-03 17:52:14)

I don't think you have to live there to know about culture and social life.

Agreed. So many farangs living in Thailand for such a long time and can't even grasp the simple meaning of the word "farang"! It really has amazed me!

And I have never lived in Thailand.

Yeah, right.

I see this now, you put quotes on my side that I never made, can you refrain from that?

Thanks

Joe

[SanukJoe]

@ Joe,

Sorry mate, wasn't meant so personal!

Let's have a beer!

BTW I'm Dutch aswell and miss the homeland and the culture mak mak!

I go for the beer, as long it's not dutch

[TAWP]

Have people really insulted those that pay, in this thread?

I recall reading complaints that those that hadn't payed was cheapskates...

Yes sir, dick heads who have no idea they shouldn't pay one penny. Old farts with no hair who say sanook and ting tong, plenty of insults believe me. I can have it, I don't care, but it's not the idea of a forum to insult fellow members.

I respect anyone who is proud of not having paid sin sot, let everyone respect those people who paid sin sot, voluntarily and with happiness!

Fact is that sin sot is followed by most Thais and who are we farangs to criticise that?

Joe

On what grounds did you just refer to me as a <deleted>? Have I said anything at all against you in this thread or anywhere else?

Get your act together.

(And unless you haven't noticed, I haven't even said what I think about Sin Sod, only wrote that my wife dislikes it and hence didn't even bring it up.)

[SanukJoe]

No doubt it seems awfully "anti-romantic" to think of your bride-to-be in terms of her market value, and if it makes you feel better then don't think of it that way, but the fact remains that in many cases that is how her family and friends will determine what the number should be. Romance, as should be obvious from the etymology of the word, is a Western ideal, and our way of looking at relationships is not necessarily the same as the Thai way.

I paid what I considered to be a generous amount, however, the number originally mentioned was astronomical... I paid about 1/20th of that. Moral of the story: everything is negotiable. The first number you hear is definitely not what they are expecting; more like their wildest dreams of hitting the lottery.

It's obvious that a lot of guys haven't understood the meaning of sin sot, why don't you read the excellent topic Tuky mentioned earlier? Sin sot is NOT the value of your to be wife!!! You should be ashamed to think of a money value of your lady. Sin sot is a form of respect for your wife's parents, to show you can take care of a family AND a kind of compensation for taking their daughter away, so taking away labour. The daughter obviously worked in the house, cooked or worked on the farm, that is lost when you marry her, so the sin sot is also to compensate that. Please understand the real meaning before you judge!

Joe

Joe, with all due respect, you don't know my wife or her family (and I don't know yours either), so we really shouldn't lecture each other about what sinsot means to our respective wives or families. When we met, my wife had a university degree and worked in an office in Bangkok. She never worked in the house, cooked, or worked on the farm.

Some folks have said they didn't negotiate their sinsot. That's all well and good for them, but in my case and most others, it had to be negotiated. Every situation is different and I would be the last person to judge anyone for doing it differently than myself. My only beef is with guys who pay a price completely out of proportion to what is appropriate for the lady in question, thus causing unreasonable expectations for the next bloke who comes along wanting to marry her cousin or neighbor across the fish pond. That's why folks who know will tell you that if you don't know what a fair number is, you should have a trusted Thai person on your side of the negotiating table.

You may look at it however you wish but the fact remains, if you paid a sinsot, whatever that amount was represents a certain money value that you paid for the privelege of marrying your wife. Again, I paid sinsot myself so am hardly in a position to "judge" anyone else who did so.

Hi, I can follow your thinking. But, it you would have read the pinned topic: sin sot in the general forum, you would have understood that sin sot is NOT the value of the woman. It is a respect to the parents, a show you can support a family and a reimburse for (some/most) family lose their daughter's labour. So it serves 3 goals. On top it shows to the village that a woman has found a husband who is not broke and homeless, but a man who can take care of his new family.

You perfectly confirm my thinking: your wife had a degree, good job and did not work home, still you paid sin sot. As it is a form of respect to her parents in the first place. I agree with you that negotiation has to take place, but it is sanuk that rules! It's fun, they laugh and joke, it's a very warm hearted gathering. I told them my wife is worth nothing as she is divorced and has 2 kids. They were flat on the floor. Then they said: you don't have to make babies yourself, you get a wife plus babies... No need to tell you it was a very pleasant meeting, totally in thai style.

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Western world has lost culture long ago, we have habits, maybe traditions like father pays wedding of daughter, but that is hardly called culture, we are losers as far as culture is concerned.

Sanuk Joe, what happened to you backhome?

You're talking complete B#$$! As a fact, I am very proud of my culture and I have certainly not lost it!

It looks to me you are looking for reasons to justify your own actions concerning the Sin Sot!

Shame on you!

some people might not like this but here we go.

i have travelled widely through out asia and experienced many different culture's.

when im home in australia, i find we have no real culture as we are only 200 odd years old.

i said this to a lady one time at night school and she freaked out at me like i had killed her mother.

i feel that backyard BBQ'S, going to the beach, the pub, football and cricket is not a culture but mearly something that aussies are famous for and like to do.

i can see what joe is talking about regards culture as thailand has a real culture in my way of thinking.

where do you come from and what is your culture?

attacking joe for his views is not a very smart thing to do as he is doing his best to keep this debate civil.

it seems to be that sin sot is a big part of thai culture and the people that agree with this far out way the people that dont.

it does not concern me and im only reading this thread trying to get a handle on it.

Thanks Terry, I'm a bit late answering, but been away for business.

You're very right about culture. OZ and USA have not much of it as they exist such a short time. I must say I have met quite some Australians and it seems we dutch go along very well with them. Still I think the culture in OZ is aborigine, the culture in NZ is Maori, the culture is USA is native Indians. They have been there long before white people arrived and put their stamp on the country.

On top culture consists of many things: art, music, dance, architecture, historic buildings and monuments, traditions and social behaviour.

Here in this thread we talk about social behaviour as a result of culture. You may have noticed that stories from different areas are the same stories, it's part of thai culture.

thanks again and take care.

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Have people really insulted those that pay, in this thread?

I recall reading complaints that those that hadn't payed was cheapskates...

Yes sir, dick heads who have no idea they shouldn't pay one penny. Old farts with no hair who say sanook and ting tong, plenty of insults believe me. I can have it, I don't care, but it's not the idea of a forum to insult fellow members.

I respect anyone who is proud of not having paid sin sot, let everyone respect those people who paid sin sot, voluntarily and with happiness!

Fact is that sin sot is followed by most Thais and who are we farangs to criticise that?

Joe

On what grounds did you just refer to me as a <deleted>? Have I said anything at all against you in this thread or anywhere else?

Get your act together.

(And unless you haven't noticed, I haven't even said what I think about Sin Sod, only wrote that my wife dislikes it and hence didn't even bring it up.)

Sorry if I haven't been clear, maybe my fault. I repeated some comments posted here (not by you) as you asked if there were insulting posts. That's all. I can quote more but I think it's clear that some people find it necessary to insult those who stick to the culture of the country they live in.....

[roamer]

I accept that there are some who object to the custom purely on idealogical grounds.

Simply means they are anal rather than tight.

[Far Angst]

'

It always is easier to wear the pink spectacles living afar from the reality. Reading about the culture is nice, very nice.

Living in it sometimes gives one flashes of reality not contained in books.

,

Edited January 5, 2007 by Far Angst

[JacknDanny]

. Old farts with no hair who say sanook and ting tong,

Joe

Having looked at your avatar,Joe, I was just wondering who you were referring to??

[Polarbear45]

Reading all the info on sin Sod's and hearing many people bad mouth culture, prior marriages and more on what a lady is worth, makes me want to ask, why are these people bother to seek a wife in Thailand.

I recently married Thai girl from NE , 38, three children (Prior Buddhist only wedding) 6 grade education, living in Yala cooking to make living, all the things people would rate her worth as low.

When I considered marriage, I consider what she was worth to me, what would make her happy, what would make her look good for family. I read much on culture and understood when my first visit was chaperoned, and no sexual contact until marriage. I allowed her to set the tone and line for all types of affections and benifited from that in real trust on her part.

We had buddish wedding and registered with the government. I bought her ring, neckless and tennis braclet as part of the dowery. She never asked me for anything or any amount. I did it for me. To watch her and three sisters in store looking at the sparkle was enough to make any man happy. She picked out sparkle over Thai gold ( which shows it for her and not to sell later). Plus I gave 50,000 baht which is what I could afford considering the cost for picking up three children. The amount was never discussed by me with anyone, it is what I offered to give, father appeared very happy and so did she.

We discussed support to parents after marriage and fact not piggy bank for rest of family. She never asked for this I offered, knowing what is expected. She has had ATM card before and since marriage and never abused the use or taken advantage of me. I know what is needed and offer before she has to. In many cases if she did not need what was needed for an event she returned the change to me.

I offered after wedding to visit village in NE, as I knew she had not seen or been back for a long time. Again it was something that made her extremely happy and it showed in her smile and looks at me. What more could a man want. Each day at the village she led me around to meet people and show how happy she was. I ate with family in the circle on the floor and tried to eat everything served, she had already brought me my own seperate plate, but I joined the circle and peole loved to see me try and eat the super hot foods.

In turn what did I get. A extremly happy, contented, loving, caring and attentive wife. She has treated me with such loving affection I could not beleive a lady could be so nice. Her intimacy has also been shy, but with such a loving affection and true desires to be with me.

My reason for all this is to tell people if you want to be happy with a Thai wife, you have to understand them, the culture and not judge everything by western standards. If you want everything western then marry another american girl.

A little more understand and a lot less judgement.

[a2396]

Well, everyone's certainly on a roll with this topic. You are welcome to defend this outrageous practice, in the name of Thai culture. My view is that this creates a mentality of buying & selling of women as if they are some sort of mercantile goods. Not all aspects of a society's culture are good and should be continued forever. This should go in the dustbin with other degrading remnants of history, such a footbinding. Unfortunately, it will likely not, because it is a great way to make "lump sum" money for doing nothing. As good as hitting the lottery for some.

[Donz]

Well, everyone's certainly on a roll with this topic. You are welcome to defend this outrageous practice, in the name of Thai culture. My view is that this creates a mentality of buying & selling of women as if they are some sort of mercantile goods. Not all aspects of a society's culture are good and should be continued forever. This should go in the dustbin with other degrading remnants of history, such a footbinding. Unfortunately, it will likely not, because it is a great way to make "lump sum" money for doing nothing. As good as hitting the lottery for some.

That has got to be the funniest and most out of this world post I have ever read.

lol

You have just taken over from the great Moonchaser title.

[Livinginexile]

thanks! comments welcome too...

Originally it was much higher (asking price) but I negotiated down as my wife has been married before, so "second hand" On top I was allowed to keep the money and use it for improvements in the parents-in-law house and farm, which I would have done anyway..

Needless to say that this negotiating took place in a very relaxed and humorous way, we had a lot of fun together (and a couple of Sang Som as well...).

Joe

I must add to this that my parents-in-law gave us 2 rai of land to build our house on...

I will tell you why you do not have to pay sinsod....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

I will repeat this so there is no mistakes....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

Oh and another thing...you did not get the land, your wife got it. It's as good as still belonging to the inlaws.

You have been had Joe.

[cdnvic]

I will tell you why you do not have to pay sinsod....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

I will repeat this so there is no mistakes....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

Oh and another thing...you did not get the land, your wife got it. It's as good as still belonging to the inlaws.

You have been had Joe.

Someone's adjusting well

[bkkmadness]

I will tell you why you do not have to pay sinsod....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

I will repeat this so there is no mistakes....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

But you marry in Thailand with a Thai ceremony to a Thai person so you involve yourself with their culture whether you are Thai or not, so I understand the people who pay sinsod.

Oh and another thing...you did not get the land, your wife got it. It's as good as still belonging to the inlaws.

To be fair this is correct, in fact the family have just had a nice house built on their family land haven't they?

I think why this subject causes so many arguments is because the lack of knowledge of Sinsod by many farangs leaves them easy targets for scamming Thai women and/or their families.

IMHO the 'Sinsod' and the 'Sinsod Scam' are two different things. If farangs were armed with a bit more knowledge about it then less of them would be getting scammed this way.

Personally I think it can be quite a useful way to judge your gf and her family before you take that final step.

[terry57]

i think a few of these fellas must be sweating a bit when they build a big house on the familys land.

its all good whilst the relationship is good but if it falls over the farang must be prepaired to walk away with nothing.

as long as they realise that this is the facts its all ok.

are you prepared to do that. ?

its happenned many times before.

[Livinginexile]

I will tell you why you do not have to pay sinsod....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

I will repeat this so there is no mistakes....

you do not have to pay sinsod BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THAI.

But you marry in Thailand with a Thai ceremony to a Thai person so you involve yourself with their culture whether you are Thai or not, so I understand the people who pay sinsod.

Oh and another thing...you did not get the land, your wife got it. It's as good as still belonging to the inlaws.

To be fair this is correct, in fact the family have just had a nice house built on their family land haven't they?

I think why this subject causes so many arguments is because the lack of knowledge of Sinsod by many farangs leaves them easy targets for scamming Thai women and/or their families.

IMHO the 'Sinsod' and the 'Sinsod Scam' are two different things. If farangs were armed with a bit more knowledge about it then less of them would be getting scammed this way.

Personally I think it can be quite a useful way to judge your gf and her family before you take that final step.

Agreed

But what about western culture? does that not factor into the relationship one little bit?

In our culture if we have to pay for a girl, that means she is a prostitute...right?

So does that mean Joe has married a prostitute? In my culture YES because he had to pay. Marrage is about hasip/hapsip (50/50) in everything and that includes tolerance of each others culture. In my mind if the Thai girl refuses to take her husbands culture into consideration then the relationship is off to a very bad start.

I know many farangs that have Thai wifes and only one paid sinsod. His wife and about 2 million baht left him within 3 years. The other guys are still married and have happy relationships.

Money cannot buy love.

But Thailand has got the best love money can buy.

Sad but true.

[bkkmadness]

But what about western culture? does that not factor into the relationship one little bit?

In our culture if we have to pay for a girl, that means she is a prostitute...right?

Well if you are directly handing money over for sexual services yes. But Sinsod isn't like that, and by your rational does that mean if the Sinsod is returned then the girl isn't a prostitute and the wedding now fits in with Western culture?

Marrage is about hasip/hapsip (50/50) in everything and that includes tolerance of each others culture. In my mind if the Thai girl refuses to take her husbands culture into consideration then the relationship is off to a very bad start.

I agree with this totally.

I know many farangs that have Thai wifes and only one paid sinsod. His wife and about 2 million baht left him within 3 years. The other guys are still married and have happy relationships.

But that doesn't justify or not justify Sinsod does it? I know people who have paid sinsod and still happily married, so wheres the point here?

I think your gf or her family suddenly turns round to you and demands a million or two for Sinsod it tells you a lot about the girl and the family. A lot of farangs get taken in by the old 'well it's Thai culture you wouldn't understand' bullshit and a lot of these farangs only ever learn about Thai culture from the same gf and family.

[Livinginexile]

But what about western culture? does that not factor into the relationship one little bit?

In our culture if we have to pay for a girl, that means she is a prostitute...right?

Well if you are directly handing money over for sexual services yes. But Sinsod isn't like that, and by your rational does that mean if the Sinsod is returned then the girl isn't a prostitute and the wedding now fits in with Western culture?

Marrage is about hasip/hapsip (50/50) in everything and that includes tolerance of each others culture. In my mind if the Thai girl refuses to take her husbands culture into consideration then the relationship is off to a very bad start.

I agree with this totally.

I know many farangs that have Thai wifes and only one paid sinsod. His wife and about 2 million baht left him within 3 years. The other guys are still married and have happy relationships.

But that doesn't justify or not justify Sinsod does it? I know people who have paid sinsod and still happily married, so wheres the point here?

I think your gf or her family suddenly turns round to you and demands a million or two for Sinsod it tells you a lot about the girl and the family. A lot of farangs get taken in by the old 'well it's Thai culture you wouldn't understand' bullshit and a lot of these farangs only ever learn about Thai culture from the same gf and family.

Agreed again

When money is paid to the family and it is not given back to the couple, that is when it is plain robbery.

Like I said, many farangs have happy marriages myself included that did not pay sinsot. I have no problem when farangs pay and it is handled in the true Thai custom and that is...it is returned to the wife, IN FULL.

Joe gave all his money to the family...their land and now their house when he builds it, I can imagine the family convinced him that was the best way to go.

There are thousands of stories of farangs been taken for a ride and sinsot is just part of the over all scam (by the minority) of NE Thai people.