France's economy minister tells Britain - 'We want our money back'

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://inews.co.uk/explainers/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Look for the little blue crosses (there aren't any ?)

The other one!

[Retiredandhappyhere]

11 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

In other words, you just made up your assertion about 90 billion in fraud. Considering that the EU's total budget is about 140 billion, it's obvious that your assertion is nonsense.

If the assertion that there has been 90 billion of fraud over many years is nonsense, since the EU's total budget is only 140 billion, how is it that the UK is apparently being asked to pay 100 billion, in addition to the annual amounts already paid?   Does the EU not own any assets which have been partly paid for by the UK, which must form a part of the calculation?

 

Unfortunately, under Macron, France is beginning to think of itself as a great leader in the EU, so that only Macron's and Merkel's statements are heard nowadays, whereas little is heard of the other 25 ongoing nations

 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

If the assertion that there has been 90 billion of fraud over many years is nonsense, since the EU's total budget is only 140 billion, how is it that the UK is apparently being asked to pay 100 billion, in addition to the annual amounts already paid?   Does the EU not own any assets which have been partly paid for by the UK, which must form a part of the calculation?

 

Unfortunately, under Macron, France is beginning to think of itself as a great leader in the EU, so that only Macron's and Merkel's statements are heard nowadays, whereas little is heard of the other 25 ongoing nations

 

Well that's par for the course, unless you count the desperate Greek, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish voices begging for economic mercy and those of Poland and Hungary telling the EU to shove their immigration policy where it gets rather dark! 

[chezy86]

It's easy, if UK doesn't want to pay then just put a 300% import tax on everything from the UK to EU until the debt is paid.... UK's industries and farmers will be happy and we can see what will happen as it will be like the car industry where they are investing in EU countries but not in the UK because of the coming Brexit!

And you don't think Britain would do the same? They import more than they export to the EU a lot more bring it on .


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[nauseus]

Not much further comment on who is the No.2 net contributor then, well done chaps and chapesses.

[7by7]

Whatever Le Maire, Macron or Merkel may say or think; the final amount the UK pays is not their decision to make. It is a matter to be agreed between the UK government and the EU. The actual amount is still under negotiation.

 

Those negotiations will not only determine how much we owe them, but also how much they owe us.

 

Britain will get money back from the EU instead of paying to leave under plans being considered by ministers

Quote

European leaders have warned the UK that it will face a divorce bill of up to £50billion for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities.

However The Telegraph understands that officials are currently drawing up a register of the UK's assets in the European Union as part of negotiations.

 

As mentioned in that article, and many others, it can be likened to a child free divorce. We may have to pay our share of the overdraft, but we will also get our share of the house.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

It was stated that France was a bigger net contributor than the UK , that has been shown to be incorrect. Per Capita would make little difference as the French population is only about 1 million larger , nowhere near enough to leapfrog the UK. Per Capita would of course lift the likes of the Netherlands but that is irrelevent to the UK / France discussion.

See 146 above

 

What point would you like to make?

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not much further comment on who is the No.2 net contributor then, well done chaps and chapesses.

Nope

 

Look at net contribution in terms of GDP/person

 

How else should this be measured fairly? Or does that not matter?

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Britain will pay a high price for the stupid ideas of some outdated elderly, who lost their way to the nursing home. The young unfortunately will pay because the elderly and old won't be alive.

Most of the young probably want to remain in the EU simply because it simplifies their travel arrangements. Some of course for perceived job opportunities, although the fact that there are three million EU nationals living in Britain and only one million Brits living in the EU tells a story .

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

No, not at all. The continental EU countries will stay close together and will push EU forward, but Britain has to enjoy your new best friend Donald. I would rather stay in EU instead to have that friend.

Yes, we can already witness exactly how "close" all the 27 countries are and we will see even more of that "closeness" once the Brexit negotiation are in full swing and the effects on individual countries are recognized.   

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nope

 

Look at net contribution in terms of GDP/person

 

How else should this be measured fairly? Or does that not matter?

Maybe if they measured it by the amount of wooden clogs people own, the Dutch would come out top?

[chezy86]

I think there are some more battles in history. Who got a list ???

Well there was the Spanish Armada which Sir Francis Drake and Lord Charles Howard saw off in AD1588.
Of course there were the Norman invasions in the 11th century (sorry no exact date on this) where the French invaded Britain causing untold stress and hardship to the people and we never got a penny in compensation. And well before that the Romans (Italians) conquered Britain Emperor Claudius in AD48 and plundered her assets for hundreds of years and that's why I would never buy a Fiat or an Alfa Romeo not because their crap [emoji90].
Sorry well into my bottle of JD now I'm drifting.


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[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I did. Looks like France is third largest contributor?

Yes, net, but the Dutch a close 4th ,so by population size very expensive relatively (I know that's not GDP/head)

Edited July 20, 2017 by nauseus

[joecoolfrog]

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

See 146 above

 

What point would you like to make?

The points were made , you quoted them !!!

[joecoolfrog]

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nope

 

Look at net contribution in terms of GDP/person

 

How else should this be measured fairly? Or does that not matter?

Does that measurement make France a bigger net contributor than the UK....No !

 

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, chezy86 said:

Well there was the Spanish Armada which Sir Francis Drake and Lord Charles Howard saw off in AD1588.
Of course there were the Norman invasions in the 11th century (sorry no exact date on this) where the French invaded Britain causing untold stress and hardship to the people and we never got a penny in compensation. And well before that the Romans (Italians) conquered Britain Emperor Claudius in AD48 and plundered her assets for hundreds of years and that's why I would never buy a Fiat or an Alfa Romeo not because their crap .
Sorry well into my bottle of JD now I'm drifting.


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JD always works for me - let's get a few quid out of the Italians before they declare bankruptcy. Can't be too cokplicated.  

[tomacht8]

35 minutes ago, chezy86 said:

Snip

And well before that the Romans (Italians) conquered Britain Emperor Claudius in AD48 and plundered her assets for hundreds of years and that's why I would never buy a Fiat or an Alfa Romeo not because their crap .
Snip

LOL.

Consequently you would have to drive an Indian car, have Indian furniture, eat indian currys and wear handwoven shirts from india.

[vogie]

53 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nope

 

Look at net contribution in terms of GDP/person

 

How else should this be measured fairly? Or does that not matter?

Like it or not we are the second largest contributors, no ifs or buts. Poland has a population of nearly 40 million people, but doesn't pay a penny, infact receives about 5 billion a year from the EU, so how does population come into it. It has to be about how much a nation pays.

 

"According to an internal Finance Ministry report in September, Germany may have to contribute an extra 4.5 billion euros in 2019 and 2020, after Britain leaves."

I'm not sure how much extra France will have pay to make up the deficit when the UK leaves, but there are some 'states' that have said they will not pay anymore after brexit, so figures could be even higher. Interesting times ahead.

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Like it or not we are the second largest contributors, no ifs or buts. Poland has a population of nearly 40 million people, but doesn't pay a penny, infact receives about 5 billion a year from the EU, so how does population come into it. It has to be about how much a nation pays.

 

"According to an internal Finance Ministry report in September, Germany may have to contribute an extra 4.5 billion euros in 2019 and 2020, after Britain leaves."

I'm not sure how much extra France will have pay to make up the deficit when the UK leaves, but there are some 'states' that have said they will not pay anymore after brexit, so figures could be even higher. Interesting times ahead.

If you only look at the amount of net payments you are right. So all countries which make net payments into the eu pot are stupid. correct?

[vogie]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

If you only look at the amount of net payments you are right. So all countries which make net payments into the eu pot are stupid. correct?

If you say so.

[tomacht8]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you say so.

It was a question.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by tomacht8

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

It was question.

 

Before I answer your question so I know where the goal posts are, is your country a giver or a receiver?

[tomacht8]

Just now, vogie said:

Before I answer your question so I know where the goal posts are, is your country a giver or a receiver?

My country is a net payer.

And a receiver in terms of trade possibilities

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

My country is a net payer.

And a receiver in terms of trade possibilities

Ok then, where did I say that all countrys that pay into the EU pot are stupid, the country I know that is stupid for paying into the EU pot is the UK, but we are hoping to rectify this problem.

[tomacht8]

Just now, vogie said:

Ok then, where did I say that all countrys that pay into the EU pot are stupid, the country I know that is stupid for paying into the EU pot is the UK, but we are hoping to rectify this problem.

Understand.

But why you single out the UK then?

What the other net payers make different then?

[chezy86]

LOL.
Consequently you would have to drive an Indian car, have Indian furniture, eat indian currys and wear handwoven shirts from india.

We did leave India a smashing railway system though and if they still do the copy of the Morris 1000 I can go with that can't be worse than a Fiat lol.


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[vogie]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

Understand.

But why you single out the UK then?

What the other net payers make different then?

Because we were given the opportunity to decide whether we wanted to be part of the EU or not, the UK decided it would be better to leave this dysfunctional marriage, and a divorce was the only answer. We were hoping to divorce without still paying the mortgage or even leave without still having one foot in the door.

The other net payers must make their own decision, but the problem is their governments seem a little reluctant to offer their citizens a vote on it, I wonder why?

But I hope all goes well for both sides, I have spent many happy times in European countrys, Germany and France (and of course many more) they are amazing countrys to holiday in, I speak reasonable German and French, but I and many more don't want to be joined at the hip to them. 

[tomacht8]

That the EU costs a lot of money is a myth.

The share of the EU budget is 1% of gross domestic product per country.

Every country gets a free market access to all markets. For example, the food prices have declined incredibly when one takes as calculation basis, how much working time a worker has to spend to buy a 1 kg bread.

[Flustered]

6 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Again wrong. It seems to be difficult following my comments: I will explain to you a last time: In case you get pension. You paid for that pension when you were young? Not you,  because you did not contribute anything but the former generation. And the young now will secure your pension in case they will get into work and are willing to. If not, your pension will be shortened.

Got it now?

Then we can go back to the French Minister

In case you did not understand pls don't bother me but ask someone with wisdom

I will not bother you as you are beyond help. You simply do not have a clue how Government finances work.

 

Although there is notionally a separate fund for pensions paid for out of N.I contributions, there are years where the "fund" is insufficient to pay the pension bill and then this "fund" is topped up by money from general taxation. In the good years surplus money is invested in Gilts ( the Government actually borrowing the money for other uses),. So, and we come to the nub of it, While I have been paying N.I contributions all of my working life, some of my contributions have gone into these Gilts so that my pension is part paid for by myself and others of my age group as well as tax that we pay when the N.I contributions are insufficient.

 

Bottom line is that when there is not enough money in the pot, the Government use money from the general funds of the Exchequer.

 

In 2016/7 it is estimated that some  £125 billion was collected from N.I, and some £91.6 billion spent on pensions. As parts of the NHS are funded direct from N.I contributions this means that money has to be paid from the "fund" to top up the pension payments, money that I and others have paid in.

 

The crisis that we are heading towards is that with a growing population, there are more and more pensioners and not enough N.I money collected to pay them so money is drawn from the "fund".

 

The vicious circle is that if we allow more immigration, then there will be more pensioners down the line and even more immigration required to provide workers for new jobs that do not yet exist to pay for the pensions.

 

I know it is a hard subject to follow but please try.

 

You may want to read this document.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn09.pdf

 

 

 

[Basil B]

15 hours ago, Dave67 said:

How about we take out the cost of liberating your country from the Nazis

 

And saving their bacon in WW1...