Removal of stall-holders on Loi Kroh @ Night bazaar

[Chiengmaijoe]

I heard of a meeting today to resolve an issue of stall-holders selling their wares on what is probably one of the least busy roads around the Night Bazaar. The section of Loi Kroh Rd from Changklan  Rd/ McDonalds intersection to the Chinese temple is the only part that has stalls, and signs appeared a week or so ago notifying them that the stalls must be removed by the 1st of next month. The sign was from the Traffic Police, which seemed odd because this section is so quiet in the evenings that it has never had a traffic problem! 

 

The meeting was held today at the army camp and it seems that the stall-holders came away satisfied. However, they are not too happy , I hear, with the news of who instigated this clamp-down. People can say what they like about Night Bazaar stalls, but the reality is that the majority of tourists love them and prefer them to the few malls that are in the area, that have always struggled to get customers. The majority of stall-holders on that section are honest, decent people trying to make a little bit of extra money to feed their kids and send them to school, so it is good to see that the authorities listened to them and not the Big Business interests. It was a victory for the small people, and not a smart move from the instigators, as they all now know who they are. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Chiengmaijoe

[cmsally]

That section of the street has no traffic !!

I wonder who could of instigated that!

[sanemax]

What Ive noticed about the Night Bazaar

They pack all the stalls away at night, sometimes finishing at 8 AM

They then start to set up the stalls at 11 AM

   There is plenty of available space in that area, you would think that they would just open permanently somewhere

[Chiengmaijoe]

3 hours ago, cmsally said:

That section of the street has no traffic !!

I wonder who could of instigated that!

I' m sure you can guess, but there's no prize for getting it right.

 

I wouldn't say I believe in Karma, but I've seen many instances over the years of people reaping what they sowed. Getting on with your neighbours and integrating in your environment will always be a better way of prospering than being confrontational and uncaring. Everyone needs to make a living and co-operation will almost always be better than confrontation. Even if they win, they probably wouldn't be happy. Selfish people never are.

[junglechef]

The stalls, or more like blankets with veggies on them, on being removed from my village's small fresh market. 

 

The people have been paying the market owners a small daily fee for using the sidewalk, which of course isn't theirs, in the past.

 

[sanemax]

11 hours ago, cmsally said:

That section of the street has no traffic !!

I wonder who could of instigated that!

Thats because its full of stalls and people on the road and cars cannot pass through there

[jobin]

Recall the Saturday flea market next to Prince Royal College?  Now gone completely, of course since it disturbed the city fathers, or some rich elite who did not like the view.

 

Cheap-o stalls, blankets on the road, also disturb the city bosses as it degrades THEIR image of prosperous Chiang Mai.

[sanemax]

Just now, jobin said:

Recall the Saturday flea market next to Prince Royal College?  Now gone completely, of course since it disturbed the city fathers, or some rich elite who did not like the view.

 

Cheap-o stalls, blankets on the road, also disturb the city bosses as it degrades THEIR image of prosperous Chiang Mai.

Is this the true reason why that market is no longer, or is that just why you think that its no longer there ?

   Could it be that the market traders left because lack of business ?

[elektrified]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Is this the true reason why that market is no longer, or is that just why you think that its no longer there ?

   Could it be that the market traders left because lack of business ?

There was plenty of business. But the word was that the blocking of traffic had become unmanageable.

[sanemax]

Just now, elektrified said:

There was plenty of business. But the word was that the blocking of traffic had become unmanageable.

There has been a general clampdown of people blocking roads and streets with stalls selling things

   Must have been Jobin using his imagination and stating it as fact about the rich elate not liking the view

[WinnieTheKhwai]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Thats because its full of stalls and people on the road and cars cannot pass through there

 

You can pass through there; it means bumping into a couple people usually but definitely possible.

 

So anyway, speaking of Hard Rock Cafe, how is business for them?  I really wanted to like them but they're not making it easy.

[cmsally]

Ahh great minds think alike WTK . By a process of deduction I was beginning to work it out.

By the way, who is behind the Hard Rock, it being a franchise, who would be the owner as such? Did they buy the building from the HofBrau or whatever it was called.

Also what happened to that beautiful teak house that was just past the Downtown (no longer there of course). It along with the textile/antique gallery seem to have been razed. That street really is a mess. Those stalls are really the only thing that sucks in some foot traffic and seems some people don't realise that !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ yeah that wooden shop building (Pakeryaw Shop) got taken out and moved somewhere.    There's been a sign for an "Erawan Condominium" there on the land where the Downtown Inn was, along with that shop on the plot next to it.

 

 

[hobz]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

Thats because its full of stalls and people on the road and cars cannot pass through there

I never had trouble driving there with my car. Except that its hard to pay attention to the road when the ladies show their goods hehe

[Loaded]

2 hours ago, jobin said:

Recall the Saturday flea market next to Prince Royal College?  Now gone completely, of course since it disturbed the city fathers, or some rich elite who did not like the view.

 

Cheap-o stalls, blankets on the road, also disturb the city bosses as it degrades THEIR image of prosperous Chiang Mai.

And your source for this?

 

Of course you don't have one because it's made up pub talk.

 

Rattanokosin and Kaewnawarat Roads are a nightmare at the best of times but shutting off a connecting road made it an even bigger one. The market started before Yingluck's tax break on new cars led to lots more traffic on Thai roads. You can't close roads for up to 10 hours per day in busy sections of the town.

 

[stephenterry]

This area is one of my daytime haunts, and it's a pain in the a**e.

 

In particular, the setting up of these stalls along the one-way section of Loi Kroh Rd from Changklan  Rd/ McDonalds intersection to the Chinese temple is a noisy affair - cannot hear any conversation while it happens. Guys pull their metal stalls along the LK road on a motorbike trailer going the wrong way (as usual)  causing a racket around lunchtime every single day. HRC and Red Lion bear the brunt of this and one reason I eat lunch elsewhere - not that I would ever sup at HRC as it's way too expensive, particularly as they add a 10% service charge. Tourist rip-off, IMO. 

 

Also, I don't hold the view that the 'majority of stall-holders on that section are honest, decent people trying to make a little bit of extra money (ha, ha) to feed their kids and send them to school' - they're all part of the Loh Kroh mafia, including the tuk tuks, who prey on tourists. When one can get a city bus into town for 20 baht, these vampires charge around 100-120 baht for a short trip to the moat, where they should all end up, IMO.

 

Okay, rant over - and to be fair, there are a few stallholders who are polite and offer their goods at a reasonable tariff to visitors.  But the noise and disruption to pedestrians while they're setting up their stalls in this whole area is gross.

[Gonzo the Face]

Re the closure of the 2nd hand market.....  Yes there was traffic there on the weekends when the market was open.  But anyone with half a brain would know that you didn't have to go down that corner. Coming off the Super Hwy going south you have Charoenrat that would take you south of that corner with the market,  and to miss it on the north side  of the market there is the north end of Tung Hotel Rd. Going east or west you have Kaew Nawarat from the river to the Super.  No, if you didn't live in that corner, you had other not really inconvenient paths to travel.  I think it was a ideal location for that market for years. ....and just to point out , that much liked market, after being moved a couple times, and providing a probable small income to quite a few , .....where is it now???  Sanemax from your posts, could you be one that may live in that corner??   I also suspect lower level beaurocrats  of being led into making a bad decision.  Good for the few , bad for the many...... Me-ism over We-ism

[Chiengmaijoe]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

This area is one of my daytime haunts, and it's a pain in the a**e.

 

In particular, the setting up of these stalls along the one-way section of Loi Kroh Rd from Changklan  Rd/ McDonalds intersection to the Chinese temple is a noisy affair - cannot hear any conversation while it happens. Guys pull their metal stalls along the LK road on a motorbike trailer going the wrong way (as usual)  causing a racket around lunchtime every single day. HRC and Red Lion bear the brunt of this and one reason I eat lunch elsewhere - not that I would ever sup at HRC as it's way too expensive, particularly as they add a 10% service charge. Tourist rip-off, IMO. 

 

Also, I don't hold the view that the 'majority of stall-holders on that section are honest, decent people trying to make a little bit of extra money (ha, ha) to feed their kids and send them to school' - they're all part of the Loh Kroh mafia, including the tuk tuks, who prey on tourists. When one can get a city bus into town for 20 baht, these vampires charge around 100-120 baht for a short trip to the moat, where they should all end up, IMO.

 

Okay, rant over - and to be fair, there are a few stallholders who are polite and offer their goods at a reasonable tariff to visitors.  But the noise and disruption to pedestrians while they're setting up their stalls in this whole area is gross.

 

Since I personally know a lot of the stall-holders and have done so for many years, I can vouch for the fact that they are indeed honest, decent people. If this area is your daytime haunt then maybe you should take a little bit of time to get to know them. Having lived in Asia longer than I have elsewhere, I sometimes forget how cynical and quick to judge (invariably in a negative light) so many westerners are,  a disproportionate number of whom seem to delight in coming on here to show us just how unhappy they really are.

 

By the way, I also know that the people on the stretch under discussion are indeed mostly scraping a living and finding life a daily struggle. I don't know where you get your opinions from, but I can assure you it is no laughing matter for them, or their families. The fact that you refer to them as Mafia, says more about you than them.

[cmsally]

Rather than complain about the "inconvenience" of the small business people, one would hope that a wider perspective could be taken. With a lack of social benefits and well paying jobs , low cost /low profit enterprises have historically been the way for Chiang Mai people to earn extra income. Also the Night Bazaar is one of the main selling points in tourist info. Not only that, it was and to a certain extent is a place for not only browsing for souvenirs , but to buy in bulk to resell.

Small businesses are one of the main reasons that prices remain cheap here . I maybe wrong but it seems a number of people come to Chiang Mai to enjoy the cheap prices and variety if offers but then complain about crowded footpaths, noise, inconvenience etc. These are the very things that that keep it cheap for the visiting foreigner.

It seems that we are already seeing a push by big business to squeeze the small guys out, and once that happens the prices go up and you get more unemployment. The next few years are crucial for Chiang mai's small businesses as some big investors have a lot at stake and probably are not getting the returns that existed in their dreams.

Even some of the bigger and very well established Night Bazaar shops are really getting hit hard. You only have to go in the main Night Bazaar building to see how bad it is. Although the stalls are cheaper , I would say most are barely surviving. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, Chiengmaijoe said:

 

Since I personally know a lot of the stall-holders and have done so for many years, I can vouch for the fact that they are indeed honest, decent people. If this area is your daytime haunt then maybe you should take a little bit of time to get to know them. Having lived in Asia longer than I have elsewhere, I sometimes forget how cynical and quick to judge (invariably in a negative light) so many westerners are,  a disproportionate number of whom seem to delight in coming on here to show us just how unhappy they really are.

 

By the way, I also know that the people on the stretch under discussion are indeed mostly scraping a living and finding life a daily struggle. I don't know where you get your opinions from, but I can assure you it is no laughing matter for them, or their families. The fact that you refer to them as Mafia, says more about you than them.

The beef I had, and still have, is the noise and disruption to pedestrians, and I quoted the reality of the tuk tuk costs. If I am mistaken regarding the nature of the stall holders, I would be happy to apologise once they respect that other people have to contend with the noise they cause - but I guess that would never happen in a 'me-me' society.  And my remarks about Mafia - I can assure you the relative behaviour of such groups as tuk tuks, red buses and possibly stall holders (not known if true) towards other encroaching their patch is well known by the authorities - see the transport drivers' reactions to unwanted Uber drivers. 

[CMKiwi]

The Prince Royal College market was a great weekend market.  Lots of interesting stuff to be found (Plus a lot of junk) but it always had a good vibe to the place.

 

I believe some of the stall holders moved to the weekend markets that sometimes occur near the Chiang Mai Race course.  Ive been there a few times but a lot of the vendors are missing from Prince Royal days.  There was one vendor that did a lot of bicycle stuff, rechargable LED lights etc.  Very neat items and at sharp prices... dont know where he went.

 

Another vendor has a huge collection of secondhand power adaptors, from things like cellphone chargers to printer power packs.  Great to use when you want to run a string of 12v LEDs.  He's disappeared too.

 

Only fulltime secondhand place that I know of is the big tin shed in Nong Hoi area down past the Holiday Inn, however over the year the lady has steadily increased her prices on most things.  Still need mosquito repellent when visiting that place though.

 

Time move on huh?  Some call it progress but sometimes its also a backwards step.  Just my opinion mind...

[roo860]

The beef I had, and still have, is the noise and disruption to pedestrians, and I quoted the reality of the tuk tuk costs. If I am mistaken regarding the nature of the stall holders, I would be happy to apologise once they respect that other people have to contend with the noise they cause - but I guess that would never happen in a 'me-me' society.  And my remarks about Mafia - I can assure you the relative behaviour of such groups as tuk tuks, red buses and possibly stall holders (not known if true) towards other encroaching their patch is well known by the authorities - see the transport drivers' reactions to unwanted Uber drivers. 

This 'noise ' thing, how is it disturbing people?

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[stephenterry]

@cm sally - While I agree with looking at the bigger picture, an 'inconvenience' if it's a daily occurrence is more than being inconvenient - it becomes a nuisance. Maybe you should take a stroll down that stretch of road between 11 and 1 o'clock to witness it. There are other small businesses down that stretch as well that have customers at lunch time, but those customers would most likely seek out quieter places once they suffered this noisy onslaught.  

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

This 'noise ' thing, how is it disturbing people?

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Guys pull their metal stalls along the LK road on a motorbike trailer going the wrong way (as usual)  causing a racket around lunchtime every single day.  There are other small businesses down that stretch as well that have customers at lunch time, but those customers would most likely seek out quieter places once they suffered this noisy onslaught.  

[cmsally]

The reason that particular stretch (Suriwong intersection to Chinese temple) is noisy , is that the stalls are stored up there on an empty lot. It would be very easy to avoid them. I have walked up that street many times during the day , it is blissfully quiet compared to many other streets and it is not pedestrianised, it just happens to be closed to traffic from many directions.

Bottom line is that this location is slap bang downtown. If stallholders were banned it would most certainly be opened to traffic. Sitting on Changklan Rd would also be rather noisy and inconvenient, traffic would I think be the worse option.

[cmsally]

I think you will find that these stalls are what encourages "foot traffic". By keeping the shopping activity spread out and diverse, it encourages foot traffic in a big way.

If it weren't for those stalls , I would imagine the small businesses on this stretch of road would lose a lot of foot traffic, hence they would lose a lot of sales/customers. Everyone in retail knows that more foot traffic leads to more sales.

 

[roo860]

Guys pull their metal stalls along the LK road on a motorbike trailer going the wrong way (as usual)  causing a racket around lunchtime every single day.  There are other small businesses down that stretch as well that have customers at lunch time, but those customers would most likely seek out quieter places once they suffered this noisy onslaught.  

So Thai people are not used to a bit of noise? Have you conducted a survey with customers ref this situation?

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[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

So Thai people are not used to a bit of noise? Have you conducted a survey with customers ref this situation?

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I've answered your question. If you want to post your own opinion on this topic you are free to do so. 

[Dipterocarp]

Good riddance. These markets sell junk at high prices, and no the bargaining isn't fun anymore. I used to like the tourist t-shirts, make great gifts. It was OK when you could get one for 120 baht now they want crazy money and the don't budge on prices, it is a cartel.

I needed a shirt suddenly recently so I had to buy one at Night Bazzaar. Sukhothai FC jersey. Vey low quality copy twice as much as the real thing at SportsWorld. I guess tourists just get off on buying something outdoors. The stall holders are also very happy to exploit people and also get aggressive sometimes if you look at stuff and don't buy. Something to be avoided.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[cmsally]

Maybe try and refrain from the personal insults ; but take a minute to think.

If this gets us in heated discussion (and we have no direct relation to the issue). Just spare a minute to think about those whose livelihood is in the balance and how they feel.