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Posted

I needed to finish some bureaucratic nonsence and  I couldn't do it even if I tried everything so I decided to listen to friendly advice and hire the lawyer. 

Unfortunately, the lawyer that everyone recommends was busy but he recommended me his friend, he assured me that she is good and expert and that my problem will be piece of cake. 

I paid the money she requested... however, she started to do everything what I already did, I ask her why, she told me it is a procedure, she needs to repeat everything even if I did it before her, bcs idk procedure matter.

after one year she told me I tried everything sorry I cannot help you, it is too complicated and stressful, I will return you 50%'I was shocked and depressed finding out the end. 

What should I do...how to approach this matter? can I ask first lawyer that recommended her to give me other 50 half... who will believe who> she claim she tried everything which is not true

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Posted

You are lucky! If she actually returns 50% of her fees to you! This could be a first in LOS!

 

Something smells fishy! You might want someone to review her work. Maybe you unknowingly signed over some assets to her?

Posted

I am sorry but isnt it practice if your lawyer admit that tasc is too difficult and too complicated for him/her they should full refund you, especially after waiting more than one year for simple information collectiong for my home coutry. <deleted>?!

Posted
1 hour ago, LolaS said:

I am sorry but isnt it practice if your lawyer admit that tasc is too difficult and too complicated for him/her they should full refund you, especially after waiting more than one year for simple information collectiong for my home coutry. <deleted>?!

No, its not practice .....especially after doing a lot of hard work. She failed, EVEN after TRYING to solve the problem (Whatever it is!) for you. In her HONESTY she told she could do no more and refunded you HALF! Your lucky (as pointed out previously) you even got any refund! AND good luck if you think you're going to get something from the lawyer who recommended . Only mistake he made was in TALKING to you in the first place!

Posted
1 hour ago, LolaS said:

I am sorry but isnt it practice if your lawyer admit that tasc is too difficult and too complicated for him/her they should full refund you, especially after waiting more than one year for simple information collectiong for my home coutry. <deleted>?!

Unless any initial, WRITTEN agreement with the retained lawyer specifically stated, "no win, no charge" then the lawyer is entitled to claim whatever is reasonable to compensate for work done towards the otherwise unsuccessful conclusion of the failed proceedings. Since the original, referring lawyer did no work on the business in question and only referred a peer, that first referring lawyer has no obligation to compensate the OP for the failed proceedings.

 

By the same token, if any initial, WRITTEN agreement with the retained lawyer DOES NOT specify any sort of pro-rated compensation regardless of the success or otherwise of the proceedings, the retained lawyer has absolutely no obligation to pay any form of compensation to the OP.

 

What does the initial, WRITTEN agreement say?

Posted
9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Unless any initial, WRITTEN agreement with the retained lawyer specifically stated, "no win, no charge" then the lawyer is entitled to claim whatever is reasonable to compensate for work done towards the otherwise unsuccessful conclusion of the failed proceedings. Since the original, referring lawyer did no work on the business in question and only referred a peer, that first referring lawyer has no obligation to compensate the OP for the failed proceedings.

 

By the same token, if any initial, WRITTEN agreement with the retained lawyer DOES NOT specify any sort of pro-rated compensation regardless of the success or otherwise of the proceedings, the retained lawyer has absolutely no obligation to pay any form of compensation to the OP.

 

What does the initial, WRITTEN agreement say?

That's "if" there is a written retainer agreement......I suspect ..NOT

Posted
57 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Has any LOS attorney ever provided and signed an agreement for their sevices? 

Yes every single one i have had dealings with over 10 years.

 

You meet them, discuss terms and sign an engagement letter with them outlining terms of service., payment terms etc Many of the top ones wont even proceed to work until they have all their KYC documents and signed engagement agreement.

 

Why would you even open yourself up to problems like that by having a lawyer acting for you with no engagement? Would you do it in your home country? Its just standard common sense stuff.

Posted
17 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Yes every single one i have had dealings with over 10 years.

 

You meet them, discuss terms and sign an engagement letter with them outlining terms of service., payment terms etc Many of the top ones wont even proceed to work until they have all their KYC documents and signed engagement agreement.

 

Why would you even open yourself up to problems like that by having a lawyer acting for you with no engagement? Would you do it in your home country? Its just standard common sense stuff.

May be "common sense".....But when did that "term" apply to Thailand? :shock1:

 

Glad to hear you've had  many dealings with attorneys here in Thailand (must've had many problems) and its worked out.....Must have used the same Attorney who does retainer agreements.

 

I've only used one (the same one) in a small town for a will and real property deal. He didn't use a retainer agreement AND I'm an attorney myself!

Posted
29 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

May be "common sense".....But when did that "term" apply to Thailand? :shock1:

 

Glad to hear you've had  many dealings with attorneys here in Thailand (must've had many problems) and its worked out.....Must have used the same Attorney who does retainer agreements.

 

I've only used one (the same one) in a small town for a will and real property deal. He didn't use a retainer agreement AND I'm an attorney myself!

I deal with attorneys regularly through my work here, not personal issues. However should i need one for personal issues i would go to great lengths in ensuring that there was an engagement, and failing that email/exchange of what was agreed/discussed and terms thereof.

Posted
19 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I deal with attorneys regularly through my work here, not personal issues. However should i need one for personal issues i would go to great lengths in ensuring that there was an engagement, and failing that email/exchange of what was agreed/discussed and terms thereof.

Just curious.......Your outfit hasn't found a good enough attorney to deal with their myriad of problems ......So that you have to deal with MANY attorneys?

Posted
2 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Just curious.......Your outfit hasn't found a good enough attorney to deal with their myriad of problems ......So that you have to deal with MANY attorneys?

Just curious ....................... but where in the post you quoted  was MANY mentioned ?

Posted
4 minutes ago, Techno Viking said:

Just curious ....................... but where in the post you quoted  was MANY mentioned ?

Who said I quoted the prior poster.....He said he deals with attorneys regularly, which implies many (at least more than one)

Posted
12 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Just curious.......Your outfit hasn't found a good enough attorney to deal with their myriad of problems ......So that you have to deal with MANY attorneys?

Sometimes we deal with local Thai firms, sometimes we use regional firms, sometimes global firms. Depends on the issue. Small local labor dispute against us we would use a small local lawyer as most of the work is paper pushing. If we have a large case with possible large ramifications for the company we would use either regional or global depending on the situation. Different law firms have different areas of specialty.

 

 

 

 

Posted
9 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Who said I quoted the prior poster.....He said he deals with attorneys regularly, which implies many (at least more than one)

ohh ok, so you did not qoute smutcakes and ask the question " So that you have to deal with MANY attorneys? ".

 

Righto then..............

Posted
12 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Sometimes we deal with local Thai firms, sometimes we use regional firms, sometimes global firms. Depends on the issue. Small local labor dispute against us we would use a small local lawyer as most of the work is paper pushing. If we have a large case with possible large ramifications for the company we would use either regional or global depending on the situation. Different law firms have different areas of specialty.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your polite answer. I now understand that your firm is large with many different types of problems requiring different lawyers.

 

Getting back to the OP ....Hers was more of a personal problem so my guess was that no retainer agreement was made. Only know if she comes back online.

Posted
5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Unless any initial, WRITTEN agreement with the retained lawyer specifically stated, "no win, no charge" then the lawyer is entitled to claim whatever is reasonable to compensate for work done towards the otherwise unsuccessful conclusion of the failed proceedings.

 

Not if the lawyer is too incompetent or lazy to finish the job. Even an unwritten contract has two sides to the deal: the lawyer does what was expected and the client pays.

 

Would you pay a builder who built you a crooked wall because it was "too hard" to build a straight one? I dont think so. I certainly wouldn't.

Posted

thank you very much for answers,

no I have only invoice with a description of service, not with terms and condition.

 

However, I initially requested terms and condition to be written, since that is how we do in Europe. However, I was politely decline that such a thing is not applied in Thailand but that lawyers in thailand have some kind of ethic code, and that everything is there, I was like am not sure that everything is there, can we write it down? and this company, very famoust, who is elder member of thai visa know this company well bcs they had special part for them on this foroum, and they told me 3 time NO. so I go to other, second best but he was bussy and recommended his friend, she looked like an expert.  but huge disappointment, I am happy to leave her money for consultation and bureaucracy fee, but to be real, i gave her all info plus writen interpration of law and help her with seaking additional opinion. her friend told me , SHE DID everything she good. maybe but still not effective

Posted
6 hours ago, beachproperty said:

May be "common sense".....But when did that "term" apply to Thailand? :shock1:

 

Glad to hear you've had  many dealings with attorneys here in Thailand (must've had many problems) and its worked out.....Must have used the same Attorney who does retainer agreements.

 

I've only used one (the same one) in a small town for a will and real property deal. He didn't use a retainer agreement

6 hours ago, beachproperty said:

May be "common sense".....But when did that "term" apply to Thailand? :shock1:

 

Glad to hear you've had  many dealings with attorneys here in Thailand (must've had many problems) and its worked out.....Must have used the same Attorney who does retainer agreements.

 

I've only used one (the same one) in a small town for a will and real property deal. He didn't use a retainer agreement AND I'm an attorney myself!

 

If you were an attorney yourself you would have known that you don't need to have a problem to use one.

Posted
2 hours ago, LolaS said:

However, I initially requested terms and condition to be written, since that is how we do in Europe. However, I was politely decline that such a thing is not applied in Thailand but that lawyers in thailand have some kind of ethic code, and that everything is there, ......

 

I think that lawyers in Thailand do have some sort of ethical code.

 

I think that the English translation reads something like "I'm alright Jack, so @#$! you".

Posted
32 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Really?????:shock1:.....Care to give an example!

Yes. I am buying a property and what the attorney to carry out legal due diligence on the title of the property to check for encumbrances, easements, rights of way etc

 

I don't think this could be classified as a problem,   just prudent process when making an acquisition.

Posted
37 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Yes. I am buying a property and what the attorney to carry out legal due diligence on the title of the property to check for encumbrances, easements, rights of way etc

 

I don't think this could be classified as a problem,   just prudent process when making an acquisition.

Well ...the "problem" here ....is that , there "could" be a problem with the title to property. Soooo, Yes although prudent it still is (or can be ) a problem....which in essence "makes it a problem"

Posted
55 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Well ...the "problem" here ....is that , there "could" be a problem with the title to property. Soooo, Yes although prudent it still is (or can be ) a problem....which in essence "makes it a problem"

Ok, then you could argue everything you ever did in life from getting up in the morning to going to sleep at night was a problem.

Posted
13 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Not if the lawyer is too incompetent or lazy to finish the job. Even an unwritten contract has two sides to the deal: the lawyer does what was expected and the client pays.

 

Would you pay a builder who built you a crooked wall because it was "too hard" to build a straight one? I dont think so. I certainly wouldn't.

Then, as in the case of the shonky wall builder, there's civil court to pursue perceived wrongs.

 

Unless the average Joe are themselves (in this instance) either a lawyer or a builder, they don't have the expertise to decide categorically that the lawyer or the builder were incompetent or lazy. It's relatively easy to see if a builder is doing a rubbish job during the job but a lawyer working in their office is more difficult to assess. Of course it is easy to confuse what was wanted with what was expected.

 

Anyway, see you in court.

 

PS: You'll (still) need a lawyer.

Posted
1 hour ago, beachproperty said:

Well ...the "problem" here ....is that , there "could" be a problem with the title to property. Soooo, Yes although prudent it still is (or can be ) a problem....which in essence "makes it a problem"

We now know what sort of lawyer you claim to be.

 

Conducting due diligence in itself is not a problem and if no problems are encountered, then there's no problem.  However, if said due diligence does indicate a problem then surely the problem has been avoided.

 

How about getting a Thai lawyer to notarize a Thai document because it is legally required. The problem arises when you DON'T get the Thai lawyers notarization.

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