Trump, frustrated by Afghan war, suggests firing U.S. commander: officials

[ballpoint]

On ‎3‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 6:23 PM, JulesMad said:

...trumpy probably does not have a clue when Afghanistan is

It's sometime in the stone age.

[thehelmsman]

Contractors have been getting used since forever in many aspects of war. Having them take more active role in fighting a war has it's good and bad points. It would be cheaper, we as a society would not feel as bad over casualties.

[DaddyWarbucks]

7 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

Contractors have been getting used since forever in many aspects of war. Having them take more active role in fighting a war has it's good and bad points. It would be cheaper, we as a society would not feel as bad over casualties.

The Romans probably felt that way as well.

[boomerangutang]

16 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

Democracy will never work in Afghanistan, just not in their DNA. Same with Iraq, we should have put Hussein back in power. He kept his folks under control.

It's tough to know what's best.  If the US stays away, like nearly every other country in the world, then people like Saddam and Taliban take over the dunes and create misery.   If the US get involved, it's much the same.  Little difference.  It's like living in an apartment complex where some of the rooms are occupied by families which are always screaming and fighting.   It's hard to know what the best course of action is, even when people are getting slapped around - or worse.

 

If it was up to me, I would advise staying away, but I would also see about flooding the place with internet and radio/TV.   The more primitive people are exposed to the outside world, the more likely they'll expand their thinking. Then it's more likely women/girls will be treated better (than stray dogs), and other basic liberties will become less alien concepts to primitive people who inhabit those places.   It won't happen overnight, but there's hope.  

 

Look at how far Cambodia and China have come in the past 40 years.   From the times of Pol Pot and Mao to freer societies.   A lot of that can be attributed to exposure to new ideas - which can hopefully steer them away from primitive ways of thinking, including blindly following harmful leaders.

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

It would be cheaper, we as a society would not feel as bad over casualties.

Nice society you keep.

[selftaopath]

On 8/3/2017 at 6:39 PM, Thaidream said:

Trump needs to let America's Generals handle military matters. The military knows there is no real way to 'win'. They are trying to root out potential terrorist cells that could threaten strikes on the US or its allies.  I would expect the US to maintain a residual force for decades or until  America gets a real President who understands history and works with the Defense department to develop a regional approach. This is the same Trump who claims he knows more than the Generals- Oh that's right he went to a military style high school. Well, that certainly makes him qualified.

But doesn't the world know 45 is the smartest, and best in every field on every level about everything? Oh and he's the most handsome man in the world and women crave him. :-) 

[simple1]

9 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

It's tough to know what's best.  If the US stays away, like nearly every other country in the world, then people like Saddam and Taliban take over the dunes and create misery.   If the US get involved, it's much the same.  Little difference.  It's like living in an apartment complex where some of the rooms are occupied by families which are always screaming and fighting.   It's hard to know what the best course of action is, even when people are getting slapped around - or worse.

 

If it was up to me, I would advise staying away, but I would also see about flooding the place with internet and radio/TV.   The more primitive people are exposed to the outside world, the more likely they'll expand their thinking. Then it's more likely women/girls will be treated better (than stray dogs), and other basic liberties will become less alien concepts to primitive people who inhabit those places.   It won't happen overnight, but there's hope.  

 

Look at how far Cambodia and China have come in the past 40 years.   From the times of Pol Pot and Mao to freer societies.   A lot of that can be attributed to exposure to new ideas - which can hopefully steer them away from primitive ways of thinking, including blindly following harmful leaders.

Dictatorships do not permit access to alternative channels of communications from the 'outside' and if any one caught doing so heavily oppressed. US Neocon policy decisions were what originally bought Iraq and Afghanistan to their knees; moving forward, different approach, different outcomes.

 

Your last sentence didn't work out too well with the election of Trump.

Edited August 4, 2017 by simple1

[tonray]

12 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

It's tough to know what's best.  If the US stays away, like nearly every other country in the world, then people like Saddam and Taliban take over the dunes and create misery.   If the US get involved, it's much the same.  Little difference.  It's like living in an apartment complex where some of the rooms are occupied by families which are always screaming and fighting.   It's hard to know what the best course of action is, even when people are getting slapped around - or worse.

 

If it was up to me, I would advise staying away, but I would also see about flooding the place with internet and radio/TV.   The more primitive people are exposed to the outside world, the more likely they'll expand their thinking. Then it's more likely women/girls will be treated better (than stray dogs), and other basic liberties will become less alien concepts to primitive people who inhabit those places.   It won't happen overnight, but there's hope.  

 

Look at how far Cambodia and China have come in the past 40 years.   From the times of Pol Pot and Mao to freer societies.   A lot of that can be attributed to exposure to new ideas - which can hopefully steer them away from primitive ways of thinking, including blindly following harmful leaders.

The US was instrumental on both supporting Saddam and the creation of the Taliban BTW. We were a staunch ally during his invasion of Iran and we armed and trained the Mujahadeen to fight against the Russians. Our involvement is poison.

[Thakkar]

On 8/3/2017 at 11:08 AM, webfact said:

In addition, once the meeting concluded, Trump's chief strategist, Steve Bannon, got into what one official called "a shouting match" with White House national security adviser H.R. McMaster over the direction of U.S. policy.

Garry Kasparov (‪@Kasparov63‬)

5/8/17, 07:04

 

McMaster the top Kremlin target since he knows the threat Putin represents. He's also the target of the Bannon right—not a coincidence. twitter.com/DarrenKaplan/s…

@NatashaBertrand There's been a 5300% increase in the use of the hashtag "#FireMcMaster" by Russian bots and trolls.

 

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

 

Seen this before.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

Garry Kasparov (‪@Kasparov63‬)

5/8/17, 07:04

 

McMaster the top Kremlin target since he knows the threat Putin represents. He's also the target of the Bannon right—not a coincidence. twitter.com/DarrenKaplan/s…

@NatashaBertrand There's been a 5300% increase in the use of the hashtag "#FireMcMaster" by Russian bots and trolls.

 

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

 

Seen this before.

 

More on this:

 

The Knives Are Out for Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/09/the-knives-are-out-for-hr-mcmaster-trump-bannon-nsc/

 

And some alt-right "logic" to go:

 

Far-right Bannon Affiliates Attack McMaster for Being 'Controlled by Jews' and 'Hostile to Israel'

http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.805253

[simple1]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

 

More on this:

 

The Knives Are Out for Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/09/the-knives-are-out-for-hr-mcmaster-trump-bannon-nsc/

 

And some alt-right "logic" to go:

 

Far-right Bannon Affiliates Attack McMaster for Being 'Controlled by Jews' and 'Hostile to Israel'

http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.805253

Wonder if Kelly can manage to leverage out Bannon the disrupter

[Morch]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Wonder if Kelly can manage to leverage out Bannon the disrupter

Wonder if Kelly will keep his job. Or rather, will not quit at some point.

Wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised, but I think Bannon's hold on Trump is quite strong.

[ballpoint]

When your men are wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains

And the swamp is filling much faster than it drains

Just fire their commander and absolve yourself from all blames

And send them to their gawd like a Trump

 

With apologies to R. Kipling.

[simple1]

56 minutes ago, Morch said:

Wonder if Kelly will keep his job. Or rather, will not quit at some point.

Wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised, but I think Bannon's hold on Trump is quite strong.

Can't argue with opinion, but in context following may be of interest.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/senior-nsc-official-ousted-after-writing-controversial-memo-about-trump-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Can't argue with opinion, but in context following may be of interest.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/senior-nsc-official-ousted-after-writing-controversial-memo-about-trump-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

There were recently four such dismissals of "Bannonites" from the NSC. This is the background to the current backlash against McMaster. Hard to predict which "side" will prevail considering Trump's volatile nature.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Morch

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

There were recently four such dismissals of "Bannonites" from the NSC. This is the background to the current backlash against McMaster. Hard to predict which "side" will prevail considering Trump's volatile nature.

My guess is that neither side will prevail. Trump enjoys this kind of conflict.

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

There were recently four such dismissals of "Bannonites" from the NSC. This is the background to the current backlash against McMaster. Hard to predict which "side" will prevail considering Trump's volatile nature.

Certainly keep yourself well informed, I look forward to reading your input

Edited August 6, 2017 by simple1

[Headphone Jack]

Robert Fisk is the veteran journo who is the guru on the ME and Afghanistan. His 1500 page tome " The Great War for Civilisation The Conquest of the Middle East" is the bible. He was in Afghanistan with the Russians early on, it's riveting reading.

It has been mooted lately that we should have supported the Russians when they invaded instead of spending trillions to help defeat them there. Modern history would have been totally different.

I was In Nepal in December 79 when the Russians invaded and it was a totally different world then. My viewpoint has always been that if you really want to win against a society like that then one must be more brutal than them. In some regions of The Phillipines in the war there pre 1900 the Americans killed every male over 10. That is the only way if you want to win in Afghanistan, kill all the men and boys and take the weapons.

Otherwise it is just a waste of blood and treasure. The British lost 500 people in their province and now we are back there.

16 years of war without a strategy, I would have fired the commanders long ago.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Certainly keep yourself well informed, I look forward to reading your input

 

Thanks, but the NSC related struggles are actually easy to follow. A whole lot of articles detailing relationships, reasons behind firings and positions of personnel on various issues. In one way, this gotta be one of the most transparent administrations ever - even if unintended.

[Thakkar]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Thanks, but the NSC related struggles are actually easy to follow. A whole lot of articles detailing relationships, reasons behind firings and positions of personnel on various issues. In one way, this gotta be one of the most transparent administrations ever - even if unintended.

Unintended indeed. Like the lady cluelessly wearing pants too tight for her and oblivious of the fact that people are staring at her cameltoe and not her figure.

 

T