Why is TAX being taken from my Krungsri Bank savings account?

[meatboy]

2 minutes ago, Monkie Business said:

 

Thanks  MB 

 

I’m thinking that no matter how many bank accounts you have at the same bank in your name , and if the amounts in each separate bank account individually is less than the 1.3 M , but the total of all those bank accounts in your name is over 1.3 M , then you are taxed on all the accounts in your name .

 

The other thing I’m now wondering , what if you have 3 bank accounts , with 3 separate different banks but all those accounts are in your name , and individually each account is below the 1.3 M tax threshold , but the total of those 3 separate bank accounts is above the 1.3M tax threshold , would you  still be taxed on the total , because they are all in your name , but at different banks . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i have never had more than one i call current acc.where tax is not deducted.so it never reaches the threshold limit.

whether its one bank or ten a tax return in your name is filed and sent to the tax office,by every bank.

as you dont have a tax id.no.[tin] i suspect all returns with the same surname go in the same file or computer.

i know when the wife first filed for a tax rebate,her name was still in the system,after not working in thailand since 1985.

so they do keep records.

i used to do VAT.AND TAX RETURNS in the uk.and if they smelt a rat they wouldnt leave you alone.

that is why i and many others here in los.keep a clean nose.

so i would open a fixed acc.pay the tax then get it back next feb. once you got your TIN. its easy to get the tax back.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Monkie Business said:

 

Am I correct in thinking that the above only applies to having 1 savings account in the same bank under your name , unlike my self who has 3 MTD bank accounts under my own name . So even if I keep all my 3 MTD savings accounts below the 1.3 M tax threshold , I’m still taxed on  the total amount in all my  bank accounts under my name , if the total together is over 1.3 M . 

The example I gave was assuming a person only has one MTD savings account, but if you have more for interest tax withholding purposes Krungsri looks at all of your savings accounts as if they are one. So, your three Bt1.3M accounts really just look like one Bt3.9M account earning X-amount interest....when that X-amount goes over Bt20K/year you get hit with the 15% withholding tax.

 

If you don't want to play the 15% tax withholding game with your Krungsri MTD accounts but still want to keep all of your Bt3.9M in Krungsri Bank you might want to reduce your MTD savings account(s) total amount (regardless of the number of MTD accounts your have...1, 2, 3, etc) to around Bt1.4M and then move the remaining funds to another bank.  

 

And I don't mean another Krungsri "branch"; I mean another Thai bank like Bankgkok Bank, Kaiskorn Bank, whoever you want to....just a different bank.   That way you have a separate 15% tax withholding clock with that bank.

 

And remember,  regardless of the bank you are with, if you have a "fixed account," which pays more than a regular savings account that pays around 0.5% and usually pays a little more interest than the hybrid Krungsri MTD savings accounts, the 15% tax withholding kicks in for any amount of interest earned....even when far short of Bt20K interest earned....even 100 baht interest earned, etc.  But then you have to pay the tax game (i.e., file for refund from the govt) in order to get that withholding back.

 

Or you may be able to get into some of these special tax free accounts which are usually invested in Thai govt bonds and usually limited to Thai nationals.  But a downside to many of these funds you can not access the funds until they mature....I mean they are locked away for the period of the investment and you can't get any of the funds until the investment reaches its maturity date.  That's different for a normal "fixed account" where you can still access the funds any time your want but you will also lose part or all of the interest earned to date...and some fixed accounts are even closed if you access before the maturity date....depends on the bank's policy for that particular account.

 

Bottomline: if you keep enough funds in Thai banks you may trigger the 15% withholding tax depending on the type of accounts you have the funds in.  If wanting to do that then plan on playing the tax withholding game to get that 15%  tax withholding back, otherwise, you are just giving away 15% of your total interest earned to the govt.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Pib

[jphasia]

If i understand correctly, the down side of the MTD account is that are charging 50b per ATM transaction. Not a big deal for me as i only deposit money and never used the ATM card.
Also, i understand that the maximum transfer amount is 50k per transaction (i saw that on their internet banking)
The questions are: is there any limit when withdraw at the bank and is there any fees such as the 50b when withdraw at the bank?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Monkie Business]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

The example I gave was assuming a person only has one MTD savings account, but if you have more for interest tax withholding purposes Krungsri looks at all of your savings accounts as if they are one. So, your three Bt1.3M accounts really just look like one Bt3.9M account earning X-amount interest....when that X-amount goes over Bt20K/year you get hit with the 15% withholding tax.

 

If you don't want to play the 15% tax withholding game with your Krungsri MTD accounts but still want to keep all of your Bt3.9M in Krungsri Bank you might want to reduce your MTD savings account(s) total amount (regardless of the number of MTD accounts your have...1, 2, 3, etc) to around Bt1.4M and then move the remaining funds to another bank.  

 

And I don't mean another Krungsri "branch"; I mean another Thai bank like Bankgkok Bank, Kaiskorn Bank, whoever you want to....just a different bank.   That way you have a separate 15% tax withholding clock with that bank.

 

And remember,  regardless of the bank you are with, if you have a "fixed account," which pays more than a regular savings account that pays around 0.5% and usually pays a little more interest than the hybrid Krungsri MTD savings accounts, the 15% tax withholding kicks in for any amount of interest earned....even when far short of Bt20K interest earned....even 100 baht interest earned, etc.  But then you have to pay the tax game (i.e., file for refund from the govt) in order to get that withholding back.

 

Or you may be able to get into some of these special tax free accounts which are usually invested in Thai govt bonds and usually limited to Thai nationals.  But a downside to many of these funds you can not access the funds until they mature....I mean they are locked away for the period of the investment and you can't get any of the funds until the investment reaches its maturity date.  That's different for a normal "fixed account" where you can still access the funds any time your want but you will also lose part or all of the interest earned to date...and some fixed accounts are even closed if you access before the maturity date....depends on the bank's policy for that particular account.

 

Bottomline: if you keep enough funds in Thai banks you may trigger the 15% withholding tax depending on the type of accounts you have the funds in.  If wanting to do that then plan on playing the tax withholding game to get that 15%  tax withholding back, otherwise, you are just giving away 15% of your total interest earned to the govt.

 

 

Pib , thanks again 

 

I’m still a little confused  , so I have 3 MTD accounts 1+2+3 all currently paying tax . Each account has 1.3 M in it . So I reduce the amount in account  No.1 , to 1M , then close the other MTD accounts  2+3 , so that leaves only one MTD account holding 1 M , then I make sure that any interest earned on this account is constantly withdrawn and keep the working balance to 1 M or below at all times.

 

That leaves a cash balance of 2.9 M , so I then open 3 new saving accounts at 3 different banks X – Y – Z , in each new account I deposit approximately 966.666 Baht .

 

Again , any interest earned in these 3 new bank accounts X – Y – Z , is regularly withdrawn keeping the balances within the tax threshold

 

So there would be

 

A. One original Krungsri MTD account No. 1 holding 1 M

2. One New Bangkok Bank bank account ( X ) holding 966.666 Baht.

3. One New Kaiskorn Bank account ( Y ) holding 996,666 Baht

4.One new Siam Commercial Bank ( Z ) holding 996,666 Baht

 

The 3  new bank accounts ( X – Y – Z ) may not pay as good interest as Krungsri MTD , but no tax has to be claimed back as none of the above bank account should trigger the tax threshold amount . Or is it better to leave things alone and cross my fingers that in the future , I will be able to actually claim back the tax currently being taken from my 3  Krungsri MTD accounts.

 

I need a 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, jphasia said:

If i understand correctly, the down side of the MTD account is that are charging 50b per ATM transaction. Not a big deal for me as i only deposit money and never used the ATM card.
Also, i understand that the maximum transfer amount is 50k per transaction (i saw that on their internet banking)
The questions are: is there any limit when withdraw at the bank and is there any fees such as the 50b when withdraw at the bank?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Bt50 ATM fee begins with the 3rd withdrawal each month....so you can get to free withdrawal per month.  You can do as many as you want, it's just there will be a Bt50 fee being at the 3d withdrawal per month.  New month, two free withdrawals again..   See below quote for the Krungsri Bank webpage regarding MTD.

Quote

The account holders shall be able to make the Withdrawal Transaction 2 times of each month with free of charge. The 3rd transaction of the month onwards, the fee will be charged in the amount of THB 50 per transaction given that such fee will be deducted from the account in the next day.

 

That Bt50K ibanking transfer out is really just a limit set by the ibanking; not because it's an MTD account.  A person can ask to have that limit increased.

[Pib]

@ Monkie Business,

   Yea, you got it right about spreading your money among banks if you don't want to give the govt the 15% tax withholding and don't plan to claim a refund.  How much you put in other bank accounts would depend on how much interest they pay.    

 

Plus by spreading you money among banks if one bank goes belly-up and we are back to the point in time when the govt only insures deposits up to Bt1M per person per bank come 11 Aug 20 then you have more deposit coverage.

 

Say the deposit protection does go back to Bt1M come 11 Aug 20 (currently scheduled to do so) but you still have all of your Bt3.9M at Krungsri Bank only,  Krungsre goes belly-up (unlikely, just for discussion), then the max money you will be insured for is Bt1M....the other Bt2.9M is probably loss.

 

Now if you had had some of your funds in other banks, say 1 other bank, then you get a max Bt1M coverage also at that other bank for any deposits you have there.  You now have a total of Bt2M in deposit protection between two banks.   Have money spread to 3 banks, Bt3M deposit insurance protection, etc, etc, etc.

 

But right now you are covered up to Bt15M per person per bank, so no need to worry.

 

Thailand Deposit Protection Program Coverage Now and in Near Future.

 

 

 

[Monkie Business]

 My wife has telephoned the tax office , and for some strange reason the person who she spoke to , did not understand the tax id number thing . Dose any one know the exact Thai wording for the tax ID ( I think its also called the TIN ) .
 

[meatboy]

38 minutes ago, Monkie Business said:

 My wife has telephoned the tax office , and for some strange reason the person who she spoke to , did not understand the tax id number thing . Dose any one know the exact Thai wording for the tax ID ( I think its also called the TIN ) .
 

for a thai its their ID.for us its 11no's [TIN] tax identification numbers]

perhaps she spoke to the cleaner.

what office is this.

[Monkie Business]

38 minutes ago, meatboy said:

for a thai its their ID.for us its 11no's [TIN] tax identification numbers]

perhaps she spoke to the cleaner.

what office is this.

 My wife telephoned the nearest tax office to where we live , which is Chok Chai branch office , but due to a past motorbike accident – not wearing a helmet , she now has a permanent disability and speech  impediment, so may be that’s a factor with the people at the tax office not understanding things . She does try her best but gets very frustrated , so I’m some how trying to help.
 
 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, meatboy said:

for a thai its their ID.for us its 11no's [TIN] tax identification numbers]

perhaps she spoke to the cleaner.

what office is this.

My Tax ID number is 13 digits long (me be a farang).  Be sure to count any zero's in the front of the number as they still count as part of the 13 digits.   I have a zero at the beginning of my tax number so if that was not counted it would be only 12 digits long.

 

But those 13 digits on my tax card are written into 13 rectangular blocks which implies to me a tax ID is 13 digits long.

[janclaes47]

Thai Military bank has an account that is about similar in earnings to the TMD account.

 

Do they have the same rule on combining all accounts to determine the tax free limit?

 

Is there a limit on the tax return that one can claim each year?

[meatboy]

31 minutes ago, Pib said:

My Tax ID number is 13 digits long (me be a farang).  Be sure to count any zero's in the front of the number as they still count as part of the 13 digits.   I have a zero at the beginning of my tax number so if that was not counted it would be only 12 digits long.

 

But those 13 digits on my tax card are written into 13 rectangular blocks which implies to me a tax ID is 13 digits long.

it is a job to understand the last refund form that came with the cheque,its,0-then4no's, -then5no's-then2no's,-then1no.

so yes it could be 13.

[Monkie Business]

 

I  wanted to update my progress in obtaining a tax ID number .

 

So today I went with my wife to our nearest local tax office , it looked to be staffed with two women plus one woman who seemed to be the boss.  My wife explained that I wanted a tax ID number so I can attempt to claim tax back that’s being automatically taken from my current MTD savings accounts . 

 

We  had taken every thing that I thought we would possibly need , my passport + photo copy’s my yellow house book + photo copy’s , my wife’s blue house book and her Thai ID card.

 

The office woman who was helping us , started to enter my details into the computer and after a few  minutes she looked at my passport where it said England  and then she said that she could not find England on her computers on line tax ID application form. I asked her to look for United Kingdom , no that was not available either , I then asked to scroll down the list of names of country's that did exist on the online form so I could see them , the only country name available that would seem to be acceptable was Great Britain.

 

So she then filled in ,  Great Britain and the rest of the online form filling went with out any problems .

 

I then had to fill out an application form for a tax ID number , the form ( K 10.1 ) which can be downloaded from here 

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/fileadmin/tax_pdf/request/lp10.1_110355.pdf

 

Then she printed out the online government form that she had been filling in on her computer and along with the signed  photo copy's of my passport and yellow house book , she then took them over to the other ( boss ) woman for her signature .

 

After the boss woman had signed my application paperwork , she returned and then printed out a small tax ID card  and asked if we wanted it laminated in plastic .

 

There was no cost for the tax ID card , only 10 Baht for the plastic lamination.

 

As I thanked the woman for her help with my now successful tax ID application , I asked her to let me have the necessary forms to claim future back tax from my MTD savings accounts , she handed me several copy's of form ( K 10 ) and she suggested that I go and see her at the beginning of January next year , taking with me the banks certificate showing how much tax had been taken during the previous year , from all my MTD saving accounts , and with my new tax ID and these banks certificates , she would help me fill out the K10 application form .

 

Form K10 , can be downloaded from here 

 

 http://www.rd.go.th/publish/fileadmin/tax_pdf/others/k10_161050_130351.pdf

 

All in all a hassle and stress free time .

 

My new tax ID card had a 13 digit number , including several zeros  similar to this fake tax ID number …… 0771012807770

 

Its not often that ive walked out of a Thai government building with a smile on my face , today was an exception.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[meatboy]

well done MB they will help you when you make your claim,dont forget a couple of cakes for them in january.

[Pib]

13 hours ago, Monkie Business said:

After the boss woman had signed my application paperwork , she returned and then printed out a small tax ID card  and asked if we wanted it laminated in plastic .

 

There was no cost for the tax ID card , only 10 Baht for the plastic lamination.

 

For me, I was not issued a Tax ID until my second year of filling for a refund.  My tax office is one of several in Bangkok.  The first year they just used 13 zeros as my tax ID number on the refund request. 

 

Now the second year, they did issue me a 13 digit tax number while filing my refund request....it was like during the final step.  I didn't have to fill out any paperwork to get the tax ID (well, I think I might have signed one form the tax office  filled out and then told me to just sign it).  They were out of the tax cards and what they were using instead was piece of white printer paper cut to the size of a business card, they stamped the card to where they hand printed in English my name and then hand printed my tax ID number in 13 rectangular blocks on the stamp.   That piece of paper with my name and tax ID number hand written on it is my Tax ID Card....I keep that piece of paper tucked away in the darkest of my safe along with my credit cards, passport, and other important documents.

 

Yeap, no fancy laminated tax ID card for me....just a piece of paper with my name and tax ID number hand written on it.

 

[Nook225]

You can claim it back if you feel it worth it if your year taxable income doesn't exceed 150.000. Everything which is above - will be taxed exponentially (see revenue dep. site). 

I believe, your financial adviser (ask your bank) could easily draw a plan for you that meets your needs.

[55Jay]

Yup!   Damn!  End of August interest distribution sent my 2 MTD accounts over 20,000 combined interest this calendar year.    Sure enough, Krungsi deducted tax from each MTD.  The good old days are over. 

[inThailand]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

Yup!   Damn!  End of August interest distribution sent my 2 MTD accounts over 20,000 combined interest this calendar year.    Sure enough, Krungsi deducted tax from each MTD.  The good old days are over. 

Yup, and all the interest bearing accounts are way less than before. 6 month fund account this week paying 1.40%.

[55Jay]

7 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Yup, and all the interest bearing accounts are way less than before. 6 month fund account this week paying 1.40%.

Like others, I held onto the Krungsi MTD accounts, even at dwindling returns (1.3%), just to avoid dealing with annual tax filing.  

 

I really don't want to chase fixed accounts and deal with tax returns, so I might just say screw it, take the FOREX hit on the chin, and move the money back into US portfolio. 

[inThailand]

Fund accounts are not taxed. MTD and fixed savings are taxed at 15%.

So the net interest rate is 1.40% for Fund vs 1.30% minus 15% or net 1.105% for MTD.

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Fund accounts are not taxed. MTD and fixed savings are taxed at 15%.

So the net interest rate is 1.40% for Fund vs 1.30% minus 15% or net 1.105% for MTD.

What do you mean by "Fund" accounts? 

[55Jay]

Well, you can file for a refund of withheld tax on interest, just takes a while.

 

The point here is Krungsi's shift in interest accrual and tax withholding practices.   They may have been doing it wrong before, intentionally or not, who knows, but somebody in the Krungsi Puzzle Palace tightened the noose here recently. 

 

Bummer. 

[inThailand]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

What do you mean by "Fund" accounts? 

They are what we normally call a mutual fund. A basket of investments.

[inThailand]

12 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Well, you can file for a refund of withheld tax on interest, just takes a while.

 

The point here is Krungsi's shift in interest accrual and tax withholding practices.   They may have been doing it wrong before, intentionally or not, who knows, but somebody in the Krungsi Puzzle Palace tightened the noose here recently. 

 

Bummer. 

They are now collecting the 15%, but are they paying it the authorities? I say this because one poster said his MTD tax was not refunded to him.

Does anyone else have personal experience with claiming a MTD tax refund?

Edited September 2, 2017 by inThailand
fat fingers

[Pib]

Just now, inThailand said:

They are what we normally call a mutual fund. A basket of investments.

 

Just now, inThailand said:

They are what we normally call a mutual fund. A basket of investments.

I figured you meant Mutual Funds...just wanted to make sure you were not talking some type of bank account.

 

It's just where you said "...1.40% for Fund..." and since Mutual Funds have share prices that go up and down (unless maybe a long term bond or money market mutual fund), Mutual Funds gains are driven by share price and/or dividend payments.

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, inThailand said:

They are now collecting the 15%, but are they paying it the authorities? I say this because one poster said his MTD tax was not refunded to him.

Does anyone else have personal experience with claiming a MTD tax refund?

Claiming a bank interest refund is the same for a MTD  saving account as with a bank fixed account or whatever type of bank savings account where tax was withheld.  Get the bank letter in early Jan and then go to your local tax revenue office to apply for the refund/file a tax return.

[meatboy]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, Pib said:

Claiming a bank interest refund is the same for a MTD  saving account as with a bank fixed account or whatever type of bank savings account where tax was withheld.  Get the bank letter in early Jan and then go to your local tax revenue office to apply for the refund/file a tax return.

the wife has been doing this [refunds]for me aswell over the past 8yrs.STRESS FREE cost a couple of cakeis.

[shanesox]

Banks cannot take tax other than tax from your interest on money in your account ! But then again in Thailand In sure banks do what ever they want!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[Monkie Business]

Well I and my Thai wife went to the Krungsri bank to obtain the forms showing how much tax had been taken from my Mee Tae Dai savings accounts . We then took these forms to our small local tax office that had in the past issued my tax ID number. 

 

We handed over the forms to the same lady who originally gave me my tax ID number card , each form consisted  of 2 copy's and a carbon copy , three sheets in all. The lady asked for my Tax ID card and passport and started to enter the forms information in her computer . She made the comment to my wife that we could have enter all the forms information using an online web page form to apply our selves ,  my wife explained that this was my first time in applying for a refund so the lady continued to input the forms information into her computer . 

 

The lady took my wife's mobile phone number and said that the main tax office may call her to ask some questions and all so we should receive a SMS message on the mobile phone saying that a refund payment cheque had been posted to our home address .

 

One strange comment the lady made to my wife was,  if the the main tax office did telephone one of the  question they may ask is about me having enough money to live in Thailand . One other question the lady asked was do I have any other income / savings / pension in Thailand . 

The lady did not keep any of the bank forms or copy's and I was not asked to sign any paperwork but the lady did comment that if we did not hear any thing from the main tax office within a month then go back to see here again.

 

I got the feeling that this small local tax office does not deal with many foreigners . 

 

I came away from the tax office feeling that some thing did not feel right about what had just occurred 

 

Only time will tell .

  

 

 

[55Jay]

38 minutes ago, Monkie Business said:

Well I and my Thai wife went to the Krungsri bank to obtain the forms showing how much tax had been taken from my Mee Tae Dai savings accounts . We then took these forms to our small local tax office that had in the past issued my tax ID number. 

 

We handed over the forms to the same lady who originally gave me my tax ID number card , each form consisted  of 2 copy's and a carbon copy , three sheets in all. The lady asked for my Tax ID card and passport and started to enter the forms information in her computer . She made the comment to my wife that we could have enter all the forms information using an online web page form to apply our selves ,  my wife explained that this was my first time in applying for a refund so the lady continued to input the forms information into her computer . 

 

The lady took my wife's mobile phone number and said that the main tax office may call her to ask some questions and all so we should receive a SMS message on the mobile phone saying that a refund payment cheque had been posted to our home address .

 

One strange comment the lady made to my wife was,  if the the main tax office did telephone one of the  question they may ask is about me having enough money to live in Thailand . One other question the lady asked was do I have any other income / savings / pension in Thailand . 

The lady did not keep any of the bank forms or copy's and I was not asked to sign any paperwork but the lady did comment that if we did not hear any thing from the main tax office within a month then go back to see here again.

 

I got the feeling that this small local tax office does not deal with many foreigners . 

 

I came away from the tax office feeling that some thing did not feel right about what had just occurred 

 

Only time will tell .

About the same experience I had at a small town tax office, and I had the same feeling that it was too easy, something wasn't right. 

 

The small tax office called us and said they couldn't process the refund after all, that we would have to report to the main tax office in the city.  And that we should take our marriage license, and other things, I forget the details now.

 

We went and the clerk with my documents asked questions and seemed unsure, so she called a Supervisor over who said she would have to verify my home country's tax treaty/agreement with Thailand.  I knew the answer but OK, let them do their thing.  A while later Supervisor returned said all's well, refund could proceed.

 

I was able to see the progress/status on-line after that.  The refund wasn't moving.  Wife called the tax clerk, she apologized for not moving it along and said she would.  Next check, she was gone on leave.  Next check, she had returned, and apologized again for not processing the return and that it needed approval from Bangkok (something like that).  It finally went through, I think it took 2 months beginning to end.  Others here have had better experiences.

 

That's why I decided to avoid fixed accounts and tax returns, and stay with the Krungsi accounts despite falling interest rates.  Will have to deal with it again now.  Hopefully can do it all online this time.