Brexit negotiations have not begun well for UK, says former top diplomat

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/researchAndExpertise/units/growthCommission/documents/pdf/lseGCrep-Chap1.pdf

 

read up a bit!

 

"The UK has failed to create an enabling environment in a number of important areas for growth.
The result is a costly cocktail of political procrastination, institutional churn and poor decision-making.” 

 

Correct!

 

Where is our tech sector? Digital electronics? Semiconductors?

 

Lets blame the EU (or anybody actually)

Nothing like a few facts to halt the overflow of nonsense! ?

[Caps]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Nothing like a few facts to halt the overflow of nonsense! ?

either that or people cant be bothered with you?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Caps

[Grouse]

27 minutes ago, Caps said:

either that or people cant be bothered with you?

Fair enough, bye!

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

A small gift for you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uSTOHa4Im4

 

Thanks!

 

[Khun Han]

On 11/08/2017 at 6:48 AM, pegman said:

Past time to put a stop to this nonsense.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/839690/brexit-leave-eu-european-union-brussels-stopped-remain-lord-heseltine

 

I agree. Heseltine, who campaigned for us to join the Euro back in the day (), should put a sock in it.

[rufanuf]

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/researchAndExpertise/units/growthCommission/documents/pdf/lseGCrep-Chap1.pdf

 

read up a bit!

 

"The UK has failed to create an enabling environment in a number of important areas for growth.
The result is a costly cocktail of political procrastination, institutional churn and poor decision-making.” 

 

Correct!

 

Where is our tech sector? Digital electronics? Semiconductors?

 

Lets blame the EU (or anybody actually)

Whats that got to do with Brexit? Only Remoaners like to blame Brexiteers for blaming the UKs woes on the EU. Brexiteers want independence so THERE IS KNOWONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES.  Passing the butt is a symptom of a socialists society. The one we are in, until we get out!

[rufanuf]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:25 PM, Grouse said:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/researchAndExpertise/units/growthCommission/documents/pdf/lseGCrep-Chap1.pdf

 

read up a bit!

 

"The UK has failed to create an enabling environment in a number of important areas for growth.
The result is a costly cocktail of political procrastination, institutional churn and poor decision-making.” 

 

Correct!

 

Where is our tech sector? Digital electronics? Semiconductors?

 

Lets blame the EU (or anybody actually)

And by the way. The funding of this University, like so many others now is somewhat opaque, but some quick research clearly illustrates that its mostly funded by the very same elite who have a vested interest in us being in the EU. Funny how so many of these Unviersities churn out the scholarly biased, "experts" opinions. In the words of George Carlin. "It's a great big club, and you ain't in it!!!!"

 

[dick dasterdly]

46 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

And by the way. The funding of this University, like so many others now is somewhat opaque, but some quick research clearly illustrates that its mostly funded by the very same elite who have a vested interest in us being in the EU. Funny how so many of these Unviersities churn out the scholarly biased, "experts" opinions. In the words of George Carlin. "It's a great big club, and you ain't in it!!!!"

 

I've no idea about LSE funding for its various projects, but did laugh in agreement with a few of Carlin's points which are as relevant in the UK as they are in the US  .

[rufanuf]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've no idea about LSE funding for its various projects, but did laugh in agreement with a few of Carlin's points which are as relevant in the UK as they are in the US  .

Sadly its a global phenomonon. Politics and the education system has been polluted by money. The Elite simply assume that whats good for them is good for the masses. Sadly nothing could be further from the truth.

Edited August 13, 2017 by rufanuf

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Sadly its a global phenomonon. Politics and the education system has been polluted by money. The Elite simply assume that whats good for them is good for the masses. Sadly nothing could be further from the truth.

The point of Carlin's humour (from what I  could make out from this one clip), is that the elite know v well that what is good for them - is not good for the masses.

[rufanuf]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

The point of Carlin's humour (from what I  could make out from this one clip), is that the elite know v well that what is good for them - is not good for the masses.

Hes even more of a cynic than me :)

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Whats that got to do with Brexit? Only Remoaners like to blame Brexiteers for blaming the UKs woes on the EU. Brexiteers want independence so THERE IS KNOWONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES.  Passing the butt is a symptom of a socialists society. The one we are in, until we get out!

You misunderstand. There is a majority of dissatisfied underachievers in the U.K. 

 

It's not the EU's fault, we should  look closer to home for answers. Why is there so much American style short termism? Why is there such local underinvestment? Why do we not have a highly educated tech workforce? Why is there so much inequality?

 

Correct to want change; wrong target.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, rufanuf said:

And by the way. The funding of this University, like so many others now is somewhat opaque, but some quick research clearly illustrates that its mostly funded by the very same elite who have a vested interest in us being in the EU. Funny how so many of these Unviersities churn out the scholarly biased, "experts" opinions. In the words of George Carlin. "It's a great big club, and you ain't in it!!!!"

 

What's wrong with that? I think philanthropy is a great thing!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics

 

I was not born with a silver spoon but I can tell you, education is key to a fulfilling and successful life.

 

I studied damned hard for what I have. The EU has been a positive influence for my family. I hope others get to benefit too!

[lungbing]

Did we not have universities before the EU then?

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Did we not have universities before the EU then?

Well, fair point but off target

 

The answer is yes and I benefited with many others.

 

But that is academe. What's that to do with a high tech trained workforce? You are way off target.

 

What about the other points?

 

In my time there was still a tech sector? Oak trees from Acorn? I don't think so...

 

Why is the appropriate question ?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Grouse

[melvinmelvin]

On 12.8.2017 at 9:32 AM, Grouse said:

Nothing like a few facts to halt the overflow of nonsense! ?

 

when did a few facts last halt the flow of bah?

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

when did a few facts last halt the flow of bah?

 

Irony!

[melvinmelvin]

On 9.8.2017 at 8:26 AM, dick dasterdly said:

"I don't think any amount of analysis could have given an accurate forecast of what would happen. There were though some huge lies on both sides, and some were fabricated by the press too."

 

Couldn't agree more.  More than a year later its still all 'opinion'.  i.e. - Guessing from a biased viewpoint - and this will continue to be the case for at least a couple of years....

 

yes, well put

 

and if people could take this to heart and start focusing on making this brexit happening as rewarding as possible,

in stead of shouting big words and big numbers all over the place along with grossly unsubstantiated accusations,

UK and her UKers would benefit greatly

 

but by all means, up to you, I'll keep on enjoying my Dry Martinis (stirred not shaken) while amusing myself

with reading about unsubstantiated numbers and so called facts and silly predictions in the press

 

you know, for a non UKer as me,some days brexit media news beats cartoons

 

[melvinmelvin]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:25 PM, Grouse said:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/researchAndExpertise/units/growthCommission/documents/pdf/lseGCrep-Chap1.pdf

 

read up a bit!

 

"The UK has failed to create an enabling environment in a number of important areas for growth.
The result is a costly cocktail of political procrastination, institutional churn and poor decision-making.” 

 

Correct!

 

Where is our tech sector? Digital electronics? Semiconductors?

 

Lets blame the EU (or anybody actually)

 

Think you're pointing to smth essential here. Not easy, not quick, not cheap to remedy that.  Challenges are ahead.

 

[rufanuf]

On 8/13/2017 at 5:41 PM, Grouse said:

You misunderstand. There is a majority of dissatisfied underachievers in the U.K. 

 

It's not the EU's fault, we should  look closer to home for answers. Why is there so much American style short termism? Why is there such local underinvestment? Why do we not have a highly educated tech workforce? Why is there so much inequality?

 

Correct to want change; wrong target.

The source of underachievement is BIG.GOV that sells it's Kool-Aid under the banner of "Don't worry we will take care of you" Including funding your biased education towards the merits of BIG.GOV, BIG.BUSINESS et al, hence the need for higher education. (yet another scientist graduating in how to destroy the planet and society!)

 

Your right we need to look closer to home, and identify the politicians who sold us out to this cronysm and have them strung up for treason. Brexit is a symptom of the EU, the EU is symptom of government being influenced by wealthy people with big businesses to run, and markets to protect. The sad thing is those who defend the system only do so because they personally get benefits from it one way or another, this is just a fact of life. This is the problem with government overstretching it's remit into society as a whole, and history has sadly repeated itself over and over thru the millennia.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by rufanuf

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, rufanuf said:

The source of underachievement is BIG.GOV that sells it's Kool-Aid under the banner of "Don't worry we will take care of you" Including funding your biased education towards the merits of BIG.GOV, BIG.BUSINESS et al, hence the need for higher education. (yet another scientist graduating in how to destroy the planet and society!)

 

Your right we need to look closer to home, and identify the politicians who sold us out to this cronysm and have them strung up for treason. Brexit is a symptom of the EU, the EU is symptom of government being influenced by wealthy people with big businesses to run, and markets to protect. The sad thing is those who defend the system only do so because they personally get benefits from it one way or another, this is just a fact of life. This is the problem with government overstretching it's remit into society as a whole, and history has sadly repeated itself over and over thru the millennia.

 

 

I do understand your anger and agree with much of what you say.

 

Dumbing down of A levels, turning polytechs in universities and pushing the young onto useless courses was all to get youth unemployment statistics down.

 

The rest of the EU didn't do that and it's one of the reasons why many EU countries post higher youth unemployment that do we.

 

As always, the Germans have it right with their technical training and apprentice schemes. German workers get substantially better pay and conditions but their productivity allows this.

 

Where is our capital investment? It comes from the Japanese, Germans, India and USA!!!

 

Where is our North Sea Oil sovereign fund? We even sold ARM to the Japanese ( we sold ICL to Fujitsu years ago)

 

No, most of our problems are of our own making. I don't trust the Cons or the Trots.

 

I have applied for a passport for my beloved Denmark. Tak for det!

[Grouse]

Here's some food for thought!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_innovations_and_discoveries

 

and this

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita

 

but then look at this...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators

 

Why?

 

We obviously have very bright people and top universities.

 

But we don't turn great ideas into patented products. We don't invest. Short termism. The pursuit of shareholder value above all else. Property inflation. Millionaires for just living in a house!

 

Believe me, Brexit is NOT the solution. It will EXACERBATE our problems.

 

IMHO we need to emulate Northern Europe more closely and avoid American ideas like the plague.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20101208170547/http://www.innovation.gov.uk/rd_scoreboard/downloads/2010_RD_Scoreboard_analysis.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Grouse

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Here's some food for thought!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_innovations_and_discoveries

 

and this

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita

 

but then look at this...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators

 

Why?

 

We obviously have very bright people and top universities.

 

But we don't turn great ideas into patented products. We don't invest. Short termism. The pursuit of shareholder value above all else. Property inflation. Millionaires for just living in a house!

 

Believe me, Brexit is NOT the solution. It will EXACERBATE our problems.

 

IMHO we need to emulate Northern Europe more closely and avoid American ideas like the plague.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20101208170547/http://www.innovation.gov.uk/rd_scoreboard/downloads/2010_RD_Scoreboard_analysis.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

"We don't invest. Short termism. The pursuit of shareholder value above all else."

 

Agree, and that includes 'out-sourcing' and immigration of cheap labour  - both of which are detrimental to the salaries of the majority of UK workers.   Both the UK govt. and EU are to blame - (the various UK govts. even more so IMO) and both were given a much needed 'kick in the pants' by the UK electorate in the brexit vote.

 

Will either the UK or EU govt. take positive measures to address the electorates' concerns?  Of course not !  They'll do the best they can to ensure as little as possible changes, as this suits their personal interests....

Edited August 15, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

42 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"We don't invest. Short termism. The pursuit of shareholder value above all else."

 

Agree, and that includes 'out-sourcing' and immigration of cheap labour  - both of which are detrimental to the salaries of the majority of UK workers.   Both the UK govt. and EU are to blame - (the various UK govts. even more so IMO) and both were given a much needed 'kick in the pants' by the UK electorate in the brexit vote.

 

Will either the UK or EU govt. take positive measures to address the electorates' concerns?  Of course not !  They'll do the best they can to ensure as little as possible changes, as this suits their personal interests....

So why don't the other EU countries have the same problems as us? Try to be a little more analytical.

[Grouse]

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-40934771/david-davis-brexit-is-going-incredibly-well

 

One assumes Davis knows what incredible means?

 

 

[rufanuf]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

So why don't the other EU countries have the same problems as us? Try to be a little more analytical.

I'd say Europes problems are far greater than the UKs actually. With the exception of Germany.  The only difference most countries in Europe have still "never had it better". Even though it ain't that good!!! And the south European members all just manyana anyway so happy to live with 50% Youth unempliyement. Its always been a way of life for them.

 

Denmark might seem like an exception now, but lets see if it decides to stay in the EU or it wakes up, before its to late. The UK has been the only country in the EU to try and abide by the EUs silly rules...that's why we are misfit in the EU, most member states just fudge the figures and say yes to the rules and then just simply ignore them. That's why the EU is such a basket case.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

I'd say Europes problems are far greater than the UKs actually. With the exception of Germany.  The only difference most countries in Europe have still "never had it better". Even though it ain't that good!!! And the south European members all just manyana anyway so happy to live with 50% Youth unempliyement. Its always been a way of life for them.

 

Denmark might seem like an exception now, but lets see if it decides to stay in the EU or it wakes up, before its to late. The UK has been the only country in the EU to try and abide by the EUs silly rules...that's why we are misfit in the EU, most member states just fudge the figures and say yes to the rules and then just simply ignore them. That's why the EU is such a basket case.

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017-mid&region=150

[rufanuf]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017-mid&region=150

Your idea of "being analytical" seems to just be citing references off the internet?

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Your idea of "being analytical" seems to just be citing references off the internet?

And I can read!

 

What do you want? My analysis?

 

It's just information for interest...

 

Like this

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

 

At least all our youth are at university reading media studies and dressmaking joint honours!

Edited August 15, 2017 by Grouse

[rufanuf]

Just now, Grouse said:

And I can read!

 

What do you want? My analysis?

 

It's just information for interest...

Well, you know what they say? You can prove anything with statistics. I've been to Denmark around half a dozen times. I like it. However I certainly wouldn't put it at the top of my wish list as a place to live, nor the UK. Better quality of life is to found far far away from anywhere in Europe.