Government keeps eye on movement of supporters of former PM Yingluck Shinawatra

[MorristheRunt]

This country is sadly on the brink of civil war.

 

A vast majority of this nations people have been totally and utterly hammered during the last 3 years, and thus the "plan" has been a total success.

 

The events of next week (Yingluk) and the major event in October, I personally believe will push the people of this nation over the edge.

[stephen tracy]

59 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I doubt you have any military training or historical knowledge either. Otherwise you wouldn't makes such incorrect statements. Your probably one of those people who thinks all the WW1 generals sat in Chateau's sipping claret. 

War and battles are complex. If you win, it requires a lot of effort and skill but also a hell of a lot of luck. Try reading how close some results were.

To accuse any officer of "not being real" is not only arrogantly rude, it demeans the military service of that nation. And only someone with little understanding would suggest that an officer without battlefield experience can't have a clue. A great many service personnel complete their service without experiencing battle. You think that makes them all clueless? 

 

I think it's fairly obvious you have zero understanding of military history or any military.

I have worked with both the UK and US militaries (and allies) since late 2003 very closely, and I continue to do so. And with regards to the "not being real" thing, that's true.  Prayut, like all Thai "generals" bought their positions... they didn't earn them.  That's how it works a medieval, patronage system. That's why the Thai military would not be able to deal with any kind of external threat.  They can't even deal with the internal threats. So with your obvious extensive experience of military history, do fill me in more.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, Thian said:

I'm happy that it's safe now in BKK, no more bombs or shootings or blocked roads full of protestors.

 

Corruption is being dealt with...it's all much better since the coup.

Yet, the graft and corruption runs deeper with arrogant immunity since the coup.

Observations will vary, of course.

[Becker]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Sorry, don't agree with that. The PM was Commander in Chief of the Army. You don't get to be that, in any military, without leadership, management, and political skills.

Yes, you can. Especially in a nation where the whole system is corrupt to the core and positions are sold to the highest bidder or given to the one with the best connections.

 

[zzaa09]

34 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

  Prayut, like all Thai "generals" bought their positions... they didn't earn them.  That's how it works a medieval, patronage system. That's why the Thai military would not be able to deal with any kind of external threat.  They can't even deal with the internal threats. 

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

 The PM was Commander in Chief of the Army. You don't get to be that, in any military, without leadership, management, and political skills.

Certainly doesn't apply to him and his long circumstances.

As it's fairly obvious you haven't a clue as to how things work here, less any real knowledge or perspective towards measuring Thai history, yet pretend to demonstrate that you do. 

[JAG]

Gracefully, with poise, intelligence and a certain beauty. She has been created into a martyr and, despite her failings,  she is loved. Statues will go up in decades to come for a true Thai heroine of her times.

Good idea - a statue of her in Lumpini Park.

 

That way in years to come a certain one time deputy PM and leading palm oil magnate can pitch a tent in his old spot in front of it and shout abuse at it to his heart's content day and night.

 

Sort of Thai version of "the nutter on the bus"!

 

[JAG]

I have worked with both the UK and US militaries (and allies) since late 2003 very closely, and I continue to do so. And with regards to the "not being real" thing, that's true.  Prayut, like all Thai "generals" bought their positions... they didn't earn them.  That's how it works a medieval, patronage system. That's why the Thai military would not be able to deal with any kind of external threat.  They can't even deal with the internal threats. So with your obvious extensive experience of military history, do fill me in more.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Put bluntly, they couldn't fight sleep!

[Ricardo]

10 hours ago, JAG said:

Good idea - a statue of her in Lumpini Park.

 

That way in years to come a certain one time deputy PM and leading palm oil magnate can pitch a tent in his old spot in front of it and shout abuse at it to his heart's content day and night.

 

Sort of Thai version of "the nutter on the bus"!

 

May I propose a similar statue of another former-PM, for the faithful to make pilgrimage to Bangkok, and annoint with pigs-blood or bamboo-spears or bricks ?

 

A sort of sculptural two-for-one offer ?

 

In fact, a whole sculpture-park might emerge !

 

Time for coffee, I suspect.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Ricardo

[LannaGuy]

19 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Coming from someone who thinks they'll be lots of statues of Yingluck in Thailand in the future (what next to the bigger ones of her brother?),  it's not surprising you think you understand everything Thai!

 

 

A tad bit of hyperbole with a kernel of truth. You watch and see.

[Baerboxer]

9 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

A tad bit of hyperbole with a kernel of truth. You watch and see.

 

What's hyperbolic about that?

 

Your the one predicting mass admiration and adulation of an actress. Now that is a tad hyperbolic!

Edited August 17, 2017 by Baerboxer

[LannaGuy]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

What's hyperbolic about that?

Huh?  I was referring to my 'statue' comment?

[Baerboxer]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

Huh?  I was referring to my 'statue' comment?

 

Oh sorry. Not finished first half pint of coffee yet. And Mrs. BB been baiting the Baer again, grr grr! 

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, Becker said:

Yes, you can. Especially in a nation where the whole system is corrupt to the core and positions are sold to the highest bidder or given to the one with the best connections.

 

 

Whilst what you say is true, there are also some other factors. In order to maintain face the best families want the highest positions for their offspring. The political manipulations that go on to maneouvre the "right" people into the right "places" starts with school, way before University or College, with career mapped out way in advance.

 

Those machinations are little battle strategies to get in front of the competition and Machiavelli would be proud!

 

Once "in" the officer must keep it up to secure promotion. But that also includes "passing" appropriate qualifications, training and assessments, of course. However, the disdain shown to the Thai military by all those farang ex military super warriors, the special forces, SAS, Delta Force, Foreign Legion, Green Berets, Paras and Marines etc retirees is based on what? Conjecture. Unless they've served with the Thai military in some capacity, been on joint exercise, trained them, or such, then it's pure opinion. But it suits some agendas to decry them.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

I have worked with both the UK and US militaries (and allies) since late 2003 very closely, and I continue to do so. And with regards to the "not being real" thing, that's true.  Prayut, like all Thai "generals" bought their positions... they didn't earn them.  That's how it works a medieval, patronage system. That's why the Thai military would not be able to deal with any kind of external threat.  They can't even deal with the internal threats. So with your obvious extensive experience of military history, do fill me in more.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

Been working with the UK, US and allies very closely for 14 years, all whilst living in Thailand? But of course can't tell us more, mum's the word. And you work with the very senior people in all those different militaries do you? And they tell you all about their experiences with the Thai forces do they? And of course you read all the intelligence reports.

 

Everyone who lives here is familiar with the patronage system; and how very little happens without the right palms being greased, as we see it. Thais see it differently. Do you actually understand that there is more to "buying a position" than just paying money? 

 

Of course, with your senior position, you'll know about the co-operation and joint missions early this century with the Malaysian army and the British involvement in those operations? 

 

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of knocking the Thai military as a way of discrediting the PM.

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Yet, the graft and corruption runs deeper with arrogant immunity since the coup.

Observations will vary, of course.

 

Interesting observation. I would have said the same about the PTP years before the coup. Corruption was seemingly not only running deeper but also there was an increased openness as if the arrogance of being immune was increasing.

 

Maybe the phenomenon you describe is a progression of that? A tit for tat. A demonstration of "see we can do more and we;'re even more immune".

 

I hope not. In such a race only the people loose. And the conclusion is not a nice prospect.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Certainly doesn't apply to him and his long circumstances.

As it's fairly obvious you haven't a clue as to how things work here, less any real knowledge or perspective towards measuring Thai history, yet pretend to demonstrate that you do. 

 

And you do of course! Total knowledge and understanding.

 

What a legend you must be 

[Baerboxer]

12 hours ago, JAG said:

Put bluntly, they couldn't fight sleep!

 

Is that your professional assessment as a retired professional soldier?

 

Or just a jolly comment for the "boys"?

[yellowboat]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Interesting observation. I would have said the same about the PTP years before the coup. Corruption was seemingly not only running deeper but also there was an increased openness as if the arrogance of being immune was increasing.

 

Maybe the phenomenon you describe is a progression of that? A tit for tat. A demonstration of "see we can do more and we;'re even more immune".

 

I hope not. In such a race only the people loose. And the conclusion is not a nice prospect.

 

 

Yes, but you fail to realize is that they were voted in.  Your beloved junta was not.  Sadly, corruption, moral and ethical depravity are woven into the Thai power structure regardless who is running the country.  The difference being Shinawatras were elected.  Changes this government makes does not have the stamp of approval of anyone other than the Army and the entitled people they protect.  Name somebody who is electable that is not a Shinawatra. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by yellowboat

[LannaGuy]

14 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They are indeed a powerful group within the Army. But, he got himself to a position where that group selected him; and follow his leadership.

 

And that won't have been easy. 

But you cannot agree with small 'elitist' groups within the Army?  this group is the Amaarts 'squadron' of 'pure Thais' from rich families. This is part of the problem.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Yes, but you fail to realize is that they were voted in.  Your beloved junta was not.  Sadly, corruption, moral and ethical depravity are woven into the Thai power structure regardless who is running the country.  The difference being Shinawatras were elected.  Changes this government makes does not have the stamp of approval of anyone other than the Army and the entitled people they protect.  Name somebody who is electable that is not a Shinawatra. 

 

What a silly comment. Do you really think someone would forget PTP were voted in? Ludicrous, just as your constant insistence that I love the junta, Accept it, regardless of what the junta are or how they came to power, the Shinawatras were nothing more than an ambitious elite family who wanted it all for themselves. Their patriarch is extremely clever and realized that you must get elected first, then set about removing checks and balances, suppressing free speech and opponents making full use of the law, put your own people in key positions and then you can dismantle real democracy to make sure you're never voted out. He learned well from the late Mr. Lee and his friends Mr Mugabe and Mr Hun Sen.

Some people seem to think as long as you've been elected, it's all ok to be corrupt and unethical. I suggest that to lie, repeatedly, and line your own pockets is a betrayal of people's trust of the worst kind. Juntas are a different animal. They aren't really interested in people's trust as long as people do as told. That's why their life cycle is usually short.

[NanLaew]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:29 AM, webfact said:

Gen. Prayut also stated that supporters of the former prime minister must come the court of their own free will and not because they are hired to attend, while warning all of them not to break the law at the gathering.

So they still can't use minivans. I see.

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

But you cannot agree with small 'elitist' groups within the Army?  this group is the Amaarts 'squadron' of 'pure Thais' from rich families. This is part of the problem.

 

No I don't. But small elitist groups are unfortunately a common trait. Skull & Bones, Old Etonian/Public School boys, etc etc.

 

The military is like any other large mechanistic organization- open to domination by cliques of powerful figures who pursue their own agendas within the larger organizations.

 

But, that's how the "upper classes, social elites, wealthy" control things.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Baerboxer

[stephen tracy]

48 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Been working with the UK, US and allies very closely for 14 years, all whilst living in Thailand? But of course can't tell us more, mum's the word. And you work with the very senior people in all those different militaries do you? And they tell you all about their experiences with the Thai forces do they? And of course you read all the intelligence reports.

 

Everyone who lives here is familiar with the patronage system; and how very little happens without the right palms being greased, as we see it. Thais see it differently. Do you actually understand that there is more to "buying a position" than just paying money? 

 

Of course, with your senior position, you'll know about the co-operation and joint missions early this century with the Malaysian army and the British involvement in those operations? 

 

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of knocking the Thai military as a way of discrediting the PM.

Yes I have, and yes I have been mainly based in Bangkok and the MENA region, and no I can not furnish you with details of that on a public forum due to NDAs signed. I could technically be prosecuted for doing so. Of course I don't read every single intel report from the MoD/DoD... what a silly thing to say. No one needs to discredit the PM, he does a fine job of that all by himself almost every day. 

[Eric Loh]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What a silly comment. Do you really think someone would forget PTP were voted in? Ludicrous, just as your constant insistence that I love the junta, Accept it, regardless of what the junta are or how they came to power, the Shinawatras were nothing more than an ambitious elite family who wanted it all for themselves. Their patriarch is extremely clever and realized that you must get elected first, then set about removing checks and balances, suppressing free speech and opponents making full use of the law, put your own people in key positions and then you can dismantle real democracy to make sure you're never voted out. He learned well from the late Mr. Lee and his friends Mr Mugabe and Mr Hun Sen.

Some people seem to think as long as you've been elected, it's all ok to be corrupt and unethical. I suggest that to lie, repeatedly, and line your own pockets is a betrayal of people's trust of the worst kind. Juntas are a different animal. They aren't really interested in people's trust as long as people do as told. That's why their life cycle is usually short.

True to form BB. An early bit of Shin rant and throw in a few names for effect. I think you are saying that elected leaders whom the people put their trust in electing them are worst than junta government that 'ain't interested in people's trust and governed by arbitrary enforcement of their rules. Pretty rich BB. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, stephen tracy said:

Yes I have, and yes I have been mainly based in Bangkok and the MENA region, and no I can not furnish you with details of that on a public forum due to NDAs signed. I could technically be prosecuted for doing so. Of course I don't read every single intel report from the MoD/DoD... what a silly thing to say. No one needs to discredit the PM, he does a fine job of that all by himself almost every day. 

 

Oh yeah, official secrets act, NDA's, and "wall's have ear's" and all that. Don't worry old boy, secrets safe. 

 

"All the intelligence reports" is a figure of speech. But you are suggesting you do read some, from the UK and US?

 

So, as you were living here, and working so closely with the British MoD, you were presumably aware of the training and joint operations in the early part of this century with the Malaysian security forces? And without risking incarceration, due to recall if those operations were successful?

 

You are absolutely correct with your last sentence. Only need to stand back and watch in awe!

[Ricardo]

29 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Yes, but you fail to realize is that they were voted in.  Your beloved junta was not.  Sadly, corruption, moral and ethical depravity are woven into the Thai power structure regardless who is running the country.  The difference being Shinawatras were elected.  Changes this government makes does not have the stamp of approval of anyone other than the Army and the entitled people they protect.  Name somebody who is electable that is not a Shinawatra. 

" Name somebody who is electable that is not a Shinawatra."

 

That surely is part of the problem, so long as the TRT/PPP/PTP group-of-factions dominates such a large block of votes, it's difficult or impossible for anyone different or better-qualified to emerge.

 

And the idea of putting-together that alliance,  before an election rather than afterwards, was indeed very clever.  They survived the break-away of one faction in late-2008, but still came back again, a few years later.  They still gain the largest-minority of votes, so the other small parties will still ally with them, to get a few crumbs & positions in-power.

 

Some people may believe that only a member of that particular family can have the talent to run things here, I disagree.

 

In fact I view the dominance of one particular family to be blocking democracy here, we've seen that other people  (Sorayud, Samak, Abhisit)  can when-need-be do the job of PM, with varying degrees of ability and success, but they won't currently get the chance through elections, as you say ?

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

True to form BB. An early bit of Shin rant and throw in a few names for effect. I think you are saying that elected leaders whom the people put their trust in electing them are worst than junta government that 'ain't interested in people's trust and governed by arbitrary enforcement of their rules. Pretty rich BB. 

 

Eric, I'm still in awe from your astounding political analysis yesterday that declared Venezuela and Zimabwe to have ultra right wing governments headed by those fascists Madura and Mugabe. 

 

No that's not what I said. Both are as bad. One betrays the people the other dominates them. And both thrive due to corruption.

[stephen tracy]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Oh yeah, official secrets act, NDA's, and "wall's have ear's" and all that. Don't worry old boy, secrets safe. 

 

"All the intelligence reports" is a figure of speech. But you are suggesting you do read some, from the UK and US?

 

So, as you were living here, and working so closely with the British MoD, you were presumably aware of the training and joint operations in the early part of this century with the Malaysian security forces? And without risking incarceration, due to recall if those operations were successful?

 

You are absolutely correct with your last sentence. Only need to stand back and watch in awe!

It's quite normal to sign agreements of that nature when you're a civilian working with the military.  Even if you're working as an electrician on an army base somewhere.  I wasn't trying to make myself sound important. In fact I loathe my job and some of the awful places it has taken me and I can not wait to retire... if I can ever afford to.  And no, I didn't cover joint operations as I was in southern  Iraq at the time. 

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Sorry, don't agree with that. The PM was Commander in Chief of the Army. You don't get to be that, in any military, without leadership, management, and political skills. He acts in ways that Thais understand, whereas we from very different cultures don't. 

 

The same can be said for Thaksin, Yingluck, Abhisit or Suthep. They act in ways which are aimed at the Thai people and culture. 

Asians in general are in thrall of the man in uniform. Look at Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, Burmese and Taiwanese history. It aint no big Thai thing. Yingluck, Abhisit or Suthep are simply also-rans.

 

I would wager that the "leadership, management and political skills" acquired by General Mattis during his rise to the top of the USMC are a whole lot more worldly and valid and less myopic and self-seeking than anything garnered during 42 years of sycophantic percolation to the top of a pool of relative mediocrity. Unless you are planning on staying a vassal state albeit a vassal state with a high speed train.

 

Thaksin attended the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School and was subsequently admitted to and graduated from the Thai Police Cadet Academy. He held a Deputy Superintendent position in the Bangkok Metropolitan Police and was a Lieutenant Colonel when he resigned his commission, becoming a businessman before entering politics. He used to be in uniform and everybody (and I mean everybody that counted) loved him.

 

...then he took the blue pill.

 

Either way, whichever colored shirt one feels most comfortable wearing, they truly get the government they deserve.

Edited August 17, 2017 by NanLaew