Government keeps eye on movement of supporters of former PM Yingluck Shinawatra

[Baerboxer]

Just now, stephen tracy said:

It's quite normal to sign agreements of that nature when you're a civilian working with the military.  Even if you're working as an electrician on an army base somewhere.  I wasn't trying to make myself sound important. In fact I loathe my job and some of the awful places it has taken me and I can not wait to retire... if I can ever afford to.  And no, I didn't cover joint operations as I was in southern  Iraq at the time. 

 

Yes, the use of NDA's have their purpose. But as with many legal things, they get both misused and proliferated. I've signed numerous prior to entering a formal contract, where contractual terms usually then take precedence and contain just the same restrictions, often for what seems unreasonable time periods on contract termination. I know one UK blue chip that tries to use them to stop former employees criticizing them!

 

Sorry to hear that. Nothing worse than doing a job that you loathe. As time changes we all change and sometimes what we enjoyed as a career suddenly becomes an awful chore and dislike. Been there! Hope you can get the chance to either retire, or at least change things. Unhappiness at work is a major cause of stress and illness - watch out for both those.

 

Cheers.

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Eric, I'm still in awe from your astounding political analysis yesterday that declared Venezuela and Zimabwe to have ultra right wing governments headed by those fascists Madura and Mugabe. 

 

No that's not what I said. Both are as bad. One betrays the people the other dominates them. And both thrive due to corruption.

Your vocabulary keep expanding and I can't keep up. How did the words 'ultra right wing' and 'fascists' injected into my description of Madura and Mugabe turning inwards to prolong their hold on government. 

 

Leaders can betrayed the people and they get voted out of office. Junta dominates by seizing power and can't be voted out. On that count, only junta is bad and their depth of corruptions seldom got investigated.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Asians in general are in thrall of the man in uniform. Look at Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, Burmese and Taiwanese history. It aint no big Thai thing. Yingluck, Abhisit or Suthep are simply also-rans.

 

I would wager that the "leadership, management and political skills" acquired by General Mattis during his rise to the top of the USMC are a whole lot more worldly and valid and less myopic and self-seeking than anything garnered during 42 years of sycophantic percolation to the top of a pool of relative mediocrity. Unless you are planning on staying a vassal state albeit a vassal state with a high speed train.

 

Thaksin attended the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School and was subsequently admitted to and graduated from the Thai Police Cadet Academy. He held a Deputy Superintendent position in the Bangkok Metropolitan Police and was a Lieutenant Colonel when he resigned his commission, becoming a businessman before entering politics. He used to be in uniform and everybody (and I mean everybody that counted) loved him.

 

...then he took the blue pill.

 

Agree that Asians like uniforms - so did Victorian Britain! But we've moved on. 

 

Here school teachers, civil servants, politicians all have their nice uniforms, usually complete with medals and more often than not those lovely parachutist wings! Even Yingluck's little lad had a uniform with medal when mummy was PM!

 

I would agree that the US military provides superb training, to all ranks and all branches. I happen to know the former head of knowledge management for the US Department of the Navy, which includes the USMC. I would also suspect, that many militaries around the world are not anywhere near as good. Having said that, as we've often seen in history, that doesn't mean invincibility, especially in recent times.

 

I believe Thaksin also has an American PhD in Law. He married a police general's daughter, and started his businesses some five years before leaving the police! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

8 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Your vocabulary keep expanding and I can't keep up. How did the words 'ultra right wing' and 'fascists' injected into my description of Madura and Mugabe turning inwards to prolong their hold on government. 

 

Leaders can betrayed the people and they get voted out of office. Junta dominates by seizing power and can't be voted out. On that count, only junta is bad and their depth of corruptions seldom got investigated.

 

 

 

Nationalist governments is what you claimed Eric. They are to the right and not near the center!

 

It should be possible to vote leaders out. Not sure Singapore had that option with Mr. Lee. Or Cambodia, Venezuela or Zimbabwe have that option either. Theory is very different to practice.

 

One thing they all have in common - a dislike for investigating corruption.

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It should be possible to vote leaders out. Not sure Singapore had that option with Mr. Lee.

We have the option every 4 years. He brought us from 3rd world slum to a developed status. His style may be soft authoritarian and fitted the political climate at that time where communism and left wingers were active and we still in the early stage of nation building. However many things have changed politically and socially that will challenge his legacy and party dominance. 

 

Waiting for the moderator to delete our off topic banter.    

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

We have the option every 4 years. He brought us from 3rd world slum to a developed status. His style may be soft authoritarian and fitted the political climate at that time where communism and left wingers were active and we still in the early stage of nation building. However many things have changed politically and socially that will challenge his legacy and party dominance. 

 

Waiting for the moderator to delete our off topic banter.    

 

No - I think that's relevant. A good analogy. If someone is successful, moved a country forward, makes it more prosperous, then, whether elected or not, their is a tendency to overlook anything else.

 

I'm sure Mr. Lee saved Singapore from the Communists or being swallowed by neighbors. But he and his family became very rich and very priviliged in the process.

 

Ps. - If I wasn't so dumb I'd have realized you were from SG before!

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not sure how popular the Shinawatras are, nor are we likely to find out anytime soon. But, they do have an extremely efficient, effective well organized grip on the electorate in the North and North East. Just like the Democrats due in the South. And those "grips" ensure large block votes for both.

 

Corruption and unethical behavior is never acceptable - elected, appointed or seized.

 

Indeed they did. Only Thaksin also resigned as caretaker PM and then decided to remove the appointed replacement and re-appoint himself and then was procrastinating on holding the election. Whereas Yingluck, who vowed never to dissolve parliament, then did so, presumably as they thought they'd win a quick election - maybe or maybe get a Teresa May result! But that'll never be known now.

 

An observation. Thaksin owned political vehicles have a good track record in elections. But, wonder how he'd react to defeat? The Don Meuang safe seat bye-election that was lost and the Bangkok governor election that was lost maybe give clues.

Yes the 'reds' are north and north east and the 'blues' are south but looking at the last map of how the 'constituencies' voted, there was a whole lot of redness right on Bangkok's doorstep.

 

Your highlighting of Thaksin's & Co's maneuverings indicate that he was unusually politically savvy and using (mostly) democratic procedures, manipulations and rhetoric exercised by other fledgling foreign democracies. The junta just doesn't entertain any of that.

 

The interesting hypothetical of how Thaksin would behave in defeat is something that I guess we will never, ever be permitted to witness.

 

Two swallows don't make a spring... or something like that.

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Their patriarch is extremely clever and realized that you must get elected first, then set about removing checks and balances, suppressing free speech and opponents making full use of the law, put your own people in key positions and then you can dismantle real democracy to make sure you're never voted out.

How did they remove checks and balances ?  Was not aware there were any in Thailand.  There aren't any now. Very much aware of Thaksin going after a young, female journalist for defamation.   That was wrong. 

 

The trouble with the yellows was they were afraid to go to Issan and northern Thailand, because people did not like them.  If you do not campaign in important places, you cannot win a fair election.   All this proves was that people in charge before Thaksin made such a mess of things it allowed for his victories.  Sadly, the cycle has not been broken with the junta interrupting democratic process.  Hate in Thailand perpetuates this vicious cycle with no end in sight. 

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, Ricardo said:

" Name somebody who is electable that is not a Shinawatra."

 

That surely is part of the problem, so long as the TRT/PPP/PTP group-of-factions dominates such a large block of votes, it's difficult or impossible for anyone different or better-qualified to emerge.

 

And the idea of putting-together that alliance,  before an election rather than afterwards, was indeed very clever.  They survived the break-away of one faction in late-2008, but still came back again, a few years later.  They still gain the largest-minority of votes, so the other small parties will still ally with them, to get a few crumbs & positions in-power.

 

Some people may believe that only a member of that particular family can have the talent to run things here, I disagree.

 

In fact I view the dominance of one particular family to be blocking democracy here, we've seen that other people  (Sorayud, Samak, Abhisit)  can when-need-be do the job of PM, with varying degrees of ability and success, but they won't currently get the chance through elections, as you say ?

Everything you say is correct, but that is just too bad.  They have the majority and may continue to have it for the foreseeable future.   And this coup is not hurting their popularity, in fact, some would argue it has made them more popular.

[Becker]

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Whilst what you say is true, there are also some other factors. In order to maintain face the best families want the highest positions for their offspring. The political manipulations that go on to maneouvre the "right" people into the right "places" starts with school, way before University or College, with career mapped out way in advance.

 

Those machinations are little battle strategies to get in front of the competition and Machiavelli would be proud!

 

Once "in" the officer must keep it up to secure promotion. But that also includes "passing" appropriate qualifications, training and assessments, of course. However, the disdain shown to the Thai military by all those farang ex military super warriors, the special forces, SAS, Delta Force, Foreign Legion, Green Berets, Paras and Marines etc retirees is based on what? Conjecture. Unless they've served with the Thai military in some capacity, been on joint exercise, trained them, or such, then it's pure opinion. But it suits some agendas to decry them.

You say that once "in" the officers must keep up to secure promotions. I don't think that is necessarily true. If the state of the police leadership and higher civil servants is anything to go by (and I believe it is) then it appears one can reach all the way to the top without much/any talent at all.

I could give you examples but I'm sure you can come up with dozens yourself without breaking a sweat. And I don't think you can call it pure conjecture to assume that things aren't much better in the armed forces.

 

While writing this I just recalled a brave army captain who went public around 20 years ago with his misgivings regarding senior army officers and the amount of time they spent on the golf courses as opposed to actually doing their jobs. It caused a big stink and the poor guy was forced to recant his story after a couple of days. I wonder if he is alive today - probably not.

 

 

[Ricardo]

5 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Everything you say is correct, but that is just too bad.  They have the majority and may continue to have it for the foreseeable future.   And this coup is not hurting their popularity, in fact, some would argue it has made them more popular.

 

Share-of-the-vote had fallen slowly over the years, last election (July-2011) was the biggest minority (48.4%), before the small-parties joined the coalition,  it would have been very interesting to see what PTP would have got in February-2014, whether the failure-to-deliver on election-promises and the amnesty-mess would have had any effect.

 

Perhaps the people who were on-the-streets in Bangkok were already Dem-voters anyway ? Or perhaps the farmers might have shown their anger with their votes ?  Pity that we'll never know now.

 

I agree that time passing may now be helping them, the military demonstrating (yet again) that they're not good at government, I think the best outcome to the trial might be a judgement of guilty, but token (if any) financial-penalty. 

 

Freezing a few bank-accounts isn't too serious, but if they've actually been emptied & then had to be repaid, well further loss-of-face for the junta in that case.

 

[JAG]

10 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Is that your professional assessment as a retired professional soldier?

 

Or just a jolly comment for the "boys"?

Oh, it is my professional opinion, if expressed a tad flippantly.

[Kieran00001]

On 16/08/2017 at 8:47 AM, Thian said:

I'm happy that it's safe now in BKK, no more bombs or shootings or blocked roads full of protestors.

 

Corruption is being dealt with...it's all much better since the coup.

 

Yes, weren't the electorate troublesome for not just rolling over and allowing the losing party to take over and wasn't the good general becoming an overnight billionaire within days of declaring himself PM an incredible coincidence!

[tomta]

2 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 

 

I agree that time passing may now be helping them, the military demonstrating (yet again) that they're not good at government, I think the best outcome to the trial might be a judgement of guilty, but token (if any) financial-penalty. 

 

 

 

In other words, you are not even slightly interested  in the idea that the trial should serve the interests of justice.

[PBScott]

Yingluck met with John McCain earlier this month, if you don't know much about McCain he is an interesting subject, meeting with both ISIS in Syria and Visiting the Ukraine in the last 60 days or so. He is an avid proponent of war with China and Russia among many many other nations.. it is not a good sign for things to come, best to resist this bunch. McCain and his cronies tend to make a nice commission off of destruction and suffering, anyone who meets with him whether they think they are acting in national interests or not is likely open to the wrong type of coercion. If Democracy returns, Thailand would be best with a new bunch of talking heads.
I for one am enjoying the peace of the last few years.

Edited August 17, 2017 by PBScott

[candide]

2 hours ago, PBScott said:

Yingluck met with John McCain earlier this month, if you don't know much about McCain he is an interesting subject, meeting with both ISIS in Syria and Visiting the Ukraine in the last 60 days or so. He is an avid proponent of war with China and Russia among many many other nations.. it is not a good sign for things to come, best to resist this bunch. McCain and his cronies tend to make a nice commission off of destruction and suffering, anyone who meets with him whether they think they are acting in national interests or not is likely open to the wrong type of coercion. If Democracy returns, Thailand would be best with a new bunch of talking heads.
I for one am enjoying the peace of the last few years.

Well, I did not have a good opinion of this guy, but since he got the balls to oppose Trump,  I must admit I like him a bit more than before.

[wakeupplease]

19 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Is that your professional assessment as a retired professional soldier?

 

Or just a jolly comment for the "boys"?

Maybe you can point me to something that locals would be proud to say the boy wonder did anything of valor because even with google and unblocked access I cannot, that is for a few decades. I can find things that for some reason are blocked that bring up facts that some would not like to read.

[Ricardo]

8 hours ago, tomta said:

In other words, you are not even slightly interested  in the idea that the trial should serve the interests of justice.

I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion, from what I was saying ?

 

How do you think the verdict should go, and why ?

[LannaGuy]

4 hours ago, candide said:

Well, I did not have a good opinion of this guy, but since he got the balls to oppose Trump,  I must admit I like him a bit more than before.

Personally I can't stand him. Warmonger and his sense of loyalty, whatever you think of Trump, is appalling. Always on CNN, always mouthing off about Russia or whatever. A dinosaur who i wish would shut up and retire. He's a losing POTUS candidate who chose a nutcase as his running mate and you take him seriously?