U.S. selects four construction firms to build U.S. border wall prototypes

[bendejo]

Long ago (1970s) I crossed into Mexico from Texas, I think it was Brownsville.  Right there on the borderline was a big supermarket that was in both countries.  I saw it from the bus window, and right after crossing the line the bus stopped and Mexican ladies carrying loads of groceries got on.  The person sitting next to me told the market spanned the border, half in each country.

I wonder if the place is still there, and if DT's wall will cut through it.

 

The four contracts range in price from about $400,000 to about $500,000

 

Two million in taxpayer money wasted right there for DT's vanity wall -- it's the Republicans who wring their hands over every cent of government spending, right?

 

 

[inThailand]

Is a big physical wall really needed? Will I really stop them?

With satellites, drones, heat sensors, and other technologies, couldn't a mostly virtual wall with shoot on sight capabilities for trespassing be more effective?

Also, there are plenty of gun toting Americans who would be glad to walk the border and shoot trespassers for beer money.

[Kiwiken]

Would these Construction Companies not be better building Giant White Elephants for this is what this will be.

[boomerangutang]

                            Let's not forget, there are already long hefty chunks of wall along that 1,000 mile border.  Even so, there are dozens of reasons why making a bigger wall is stupid and wasteful.  Trump shouting about the wall was purely electioneering geared towards getting cheers from rednecks.  On that level, it worked.  Trump is too much of an imbicile to let the idea die.  None of his base (that's all he ever talks to, anymore), is clamoring for that wall, except maybe some building contractors who stand to make millions on contracts.

 

                   Actually, I have a general contractor's licence in California, #375685 (now inactive, but could be activated. It doesn't expire until I die).  I could re-activate my license, get insurance, and put out a bid on a part of the wall.  .....about as likely as me rowing solo across the Pacific in a bathtub.

 

                   If Trump isn't out of office within months, there will probably be parts of a wall built, even if he has to get some of his billionaire friends to pay for it - only because he will want to say (when he's locked up at Rikers Island) that he fulfilled his campaign promises. 

[boomerangutang]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:47 AM, inThailand said:

Is a big physical wall really needed? Will I really stop them?

With satellites, drones, heat sensors, and other technologies, couldn't a mostly virtual wall with shoot on sight capabilities for trespassing be more effective? Also, there are plenty of gun toting Americans who would be glad to walk the border and shoot trespassers for beer money.

Most Mexicans and Latinos enter the US by plane.  Many also enter legally by road.  Trump's stupid wall will be as effective as putting a colander over your mouth to filter polluted city air.

[hawker9000]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:40 PM, darksidedog said:

With 700-900 Miles needed, the cost at these rates is going to be absolutely astronomical. At around $70 Billion, getting budget approval will be tough and I can understand why the Mexican President told Donald to eff off.

Put a 5% surcharge on all private-party remittances to Mexico (as well as perhaps El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras), plus a "wall surtax" on all Mexican imports.  Do that over the course of, say, 5 years, and problem solved.  Yeah, there's bound to be some threatened tit-for-tat, and the markets won't like it much, but the dust will eventually settle.   Oh, and no, the scheme won't fit well with NAFTA.  Boo-hoo.

 

[Credo]

2 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Put a 5% surcharge on all private-party remittances to Mexico (as well as perhaps El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras), plus a "wall surtax" on all Mexican imports.  Do that over the course of, say, 5 years, and problem solved.  Yeah, there's bound to be some threatened tit-for-tat, and the markets won't like it much, but the dust will eventually settle.   Oh, and no, the scheme won't fit well with NAFTA.  Boo-hoo.

 

And watch all those remittances go through a 3rd country and into Mexico.   Oh, and in many cases that will be American citizens paying for the wall -- not Mexicans.   

 

[thehelmsman]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                            Let's not forget, there are already long hefty chunks of wall along that 1,000 mile border.  Even so, there are dozens of reasons why making a bigger wall is stupid and wasteful.  Trump shouting about the wall was purely electioneering geared towards getting cheers from rednecks.  On that level, it worked.  Trump is too much of an imbicile to let the idea die.  None of his base (that's all he ever talks to, anymore), is clamoring for that wall, except maybe some building contractors who stand to make millions on contracts.

 

                   Actually, I have a general contractor's licence in California, #375685 (now inactive, but could be activated. It doesn't expire until I die).  I could re-activate my license, get insurance, and put out a bid on a part of the wall.  .....about as likely as me rowing solo across the Pacific in a bathtub.

 

                   If Trump isn't out of office within months, there will probably be parts of a wall built, even if he has to get some of his billionaire friends to pay for it - only because he will want to say (when he's locked up at Rikers Island) that he fulfilled his campaign promises. 

Remodeling a bathroom doesn't exactly qualify you to bid on the wall.

[thehelmsman]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

And watch all those remittances go through a 3rd country and into Mexico.   Oh, and in many cases that will be American citizens paying for the wall -- not Mexicans.   

 

What's the difference between battling illegals or paying for them once they arrive? Either way they're a burden.

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Put a 5% surcharge on all private-party remittances to Mexico (as well as perhaps El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras), plus a "wall surtax" on all Mexican imports.  Do that over the course of, say, 5 years, and problem solved.  Yeah, there's bound to be some threatened tit-for-tat, and the markets won't like it much, but the dust will eventually settle.   Oh, and no, the scheme won't fit well with NAFTA.  Boo-hoo.

                   Are you kidding?  The concept you outlined has got more holes than Swiss cheese.

                   

                     When Trump first mentioned building the wall, he used the number $5 billion. A week later it was higher, then a week later the price doubled again. A month after his first mention, the wall was going to be twice as high as originally shouted, and cost around $20 billion.  Construction experts estimated the wall would cost about $33 billion, and that doesn't count peripheral expenses such as access roads, construction of concrete plants, housing for workers, etc. 

                  Each month, the estimate climbs higher, where it's hitting $50 to $60 billion, not counting how much to pay Texas property owners along the Rio Grande, if they're even willing to sell and/or have their southwestern views blocked.  There's also no estimate for maintenance, which is projected to add up to more than the cost for initial construction.  

 

               For too many reasons to list here, the wall extension is a bad idea which won't work.  The only two things it's accomplished are:  Made Trump voters cheer, and made Mexicans hate Trump.

 

1 hour ago, thehelmsman said:

Remodeling a bathroom doesn't exactly qualify you to bid on the wall.

 A licensed General Contractor in California is allowed to bid on any building project - even a large bridge.  How do you know what my building experience has been?   

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, thehelmsman said:

What's the difference between battling illegals or paying for them once they arrive? Either way they're a burden.

Mexicans, like most immigrants, are often the backbone of building communities, wherever they go.  If you're an American (unless you're pure Native American) your ancestors were immigrants. Look at any part of the USA:  You can see the Americans whose ancestors came tens or hundreds of years ago, and 75% are fat, lazy, and getting gov't hand-outs.  (yes, even Trump gets hand-outs, despite claiming to be worth $10 billion. He got rent subsidies in NYC. That's part of the reason he won't release his tax statements).

 

Look at the same communities, and look at the recent immigrants.  75% are working hard at everyday jobs, studying at colleges, doing all they can to make things work for themselves and their families.   Look at the real people out there, not just the showcase families you might see in Norman Rockwell paintings.  

[Langsuan Man]

Trumps Wall will be built when Worayuth Yoovidhaya is extradited back to Thailand....................NEVER

[thehelmsman]

10 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Mexicans, like most immigrants, are often the backbone of building communities, wherever they go.  If you're an American (unless you're pure Native American) your ancestors were immigrants. Look at any part of the USA:  You can see the Americans whose ancestors came tens or hundreds of years ago, and 75% are fat, lazy, and getting gov't hand-outs.  (yes, even Trump gets hand-outs, despite claiming to be worth $10 billion. He got rent subsidies in NYC. That's part of the reason he won't release his tax statements).

 

Look at the same communities, and look at the recent immigrants.  75% are working hard at everyday jobs, studying at colleges, doing all they can to make things work for themselves and their families.   Look at the real people out there, not just the showcase families you might see in Norman Rockwell paintings.  

yes, our family got in line, did all the necessary paperwork 50 yrs ago...the legal way. The legal way. Not be confused with crossing the border Illegally.

 

The folks swimming across the river, climbing fences are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens. Here in the USA illegally.

 

 

[iReason]

22 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

The legal way. Not be confused with crossing the border Illegally.

The folks swimming across the river, climbing fences are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens. Here in the USA illegally.

 

Your selective perspective of 'murican history is nothing less than laughable.

 

Truly astonishing.

[iReason]

12 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

What's the difference between battling illegals or paying for them once they arrive? Either way they're a burden.

 

Except if they are white folk...

 

[thehelmsman]

17 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Your selective perspective of 'murican history is nothing less than laughable.

 

Truly astonishing.

Why did you choose to delete the first sentence of my reply where I stated my family came to this country the Legal way?

[Thorgal]

Who is actually the immigrant ?

[iReason]

19 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

Why did you choose to delete the first sentence of my reply where I stated my family came to this country the Legal way?

 

Simply because it is irrelevant to the ancestry of 'murica.

[hawker9000]

15 hours ago, Credo said:

And watch all those remittances go through a 3rd country and into Mexico.   Oh, and in many cases that will be American citizens paying for the wall -- not Mexicans.   

 

Nonsense.  I doubt most of the illegals, or the recipients on the other end, are going to have that option.  And even they should,  if the U.S. Treasury can tap banks all around the world on the shoulder, and finds it worthwhile to do so, whenever a U.S. citizen merely opens an account, they can certainly monitor remittance activity originating right there in the U.S.   There's talk of the money handlers wanting to start employing bitcoin/blockchain to facilitate the remittance business, and that would be a short-term challenge.  But with over $425B (2016) in the pot, there's plenty of incentive for the U.S. Treasury to figure it all out and get their hooks into it.  Current technology and surveillance practices make this absolutely doable.    Yes, in some cases it might be American citizens paying the surcharge.  I doubt anyone would care enough to address that, but if they did, as citizens, they could simply receive a tax credit when they file their returns, and that option simply not be extended to non-citizen filers.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Nonsense.  I doubt most of the illegals, or the recipients on the other end, are going to have that option.  And even they should,  if the U.S. Treasury can tap banks all around the world on the shoulder, and finds it worthwhile to do so, whenever a U.S. citizen merely opens an account, they can certainly monitor remittance activity originating right there in the U.S.   There's talk of the money handlers wanting to start employing bitcoin/blockchain to facilitate the remittance business, and that would be a short-term challenge.  But with over $425B (2016) in the pot, there's plenty of incentive for the U.S. Treasury to figure it all out and get their hooks into it.  Current technology and surveillance practices make this absolutely doable.    Yes, in some cases it might be American citizens paying the surcharge.  I doubt anyone would care enough to address that, but if they did, as citizens, they could simply receive a tax credit when they file their returns, and that option simply not be extended to non-citizen filers.

You really need to learn a bit more about the topic.   A lot of money went to Cuba and it wasn't directly transferred.   If you are in Thailand, just as the many Filipinos how money bypasses countries to get home.   

 

 

[hawker9000]

8 minutes ago, Credo said:

You really need to learn a bit more about the topic.   A lot of money went to Cuba and it wasn't directly transferred.   If you are in Thailand, just as the many Filipinos how money bypasses countries to get home.   

 

 

Oh stop dissembling and post a source showing that illegals in the US are sending money to Mexico via third countries.   But OK, no problem; they could start.  For a cut, banks in third countries would happily involve themselves I'm sure.  So simply put the surtax on all foreign remittances by all non-citizens originating in the U.S. for the duration of the construction.  There are in fact recipient countries besides the ones I named (e.g., India and China) that are NOT cooperating with U.S. deportation efforts.  These other countries don't have much to do with the need for the wall per se, but they're scofflaws as well so if you say it's necessary to burden them all and it's all or none, then OK, I think I can live with it.  But it's nonsense.  Between the NSA and the Treasury Dept, I have no doubt remittances headed for Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala can be readily identified, even if not by tomorrow night...

 

The remittances play an important role in the economies of these other countries (some economists would even say vital).  I suspect that Mexican participation at least in the building of the wall might just suddenly materialize if these remittances were seriously put on the table.  Like the wall itself, it's all just a matter of political will.

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

Given the massive need for construction workers in Texas, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wall project turns into a Mexico-Texas highway project instead.

[Andaman Al]

                                             

 

Quote

Giant portrait of toddler peers over US-Mexico border wall

Quote

A photo of a giant toddler stands in Mexico and peers over a steel wall dividing the country from the United States.

The boy appears to grip the barrier with his fingers, leaving the impression the entire thing could be toppled with a giggle.

A French artist who goes by the name JR erected the cut-out of the boy that stands nearly 65 feet (20 metres) tall and is meant to prompt discussion of immigration.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/09/giant-portrait-of-toddler-peers-over-us-mexico-border-wall

 

Got to love the Mexicans. If Trump builds the wall you will have 700-2000 miles of this  

Edited September 9, 2017 by Andaman Al

[thehelmsman]

39 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

                                             

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/09/giant-portrait-of-toddler-peers-over-us-mexico-border-wall

 

Got to love the Mexicans. If Trump builds the wall you will have 700-2000 miles of this  

The French have their immigration policies working just fine. Amazing how the entire world wants to chime in on our immigration problems when they themselves are busting at the seems with waves of unstoppable illegals. 

[MaxYakov]

On 9/1/2017 at 4:33 PM, Jingthing said:

This "wall" will never get built.

Mexico isn't going to pay for it.

The U.S.congress is never going to budget for it.

It's all about political propaganda for 45's xenophobic, racist hard core base.

45 will be OK with that base as long as he keeps trying to build the wall that he knows too will never be built. Then when it isn't, the clown sleazeball potus can blame the failure on all the "enemies" of the American people ... the majority that don't support him, the majority that don't want to spend money on the wall (everyone knows Mexico isn't going to pay for it), and the majority that supports border security but realizes such a big long tall propaganda wall is not a realistic way to tackle that issue.

 

In software there is vaporware.

This wall is a vaporwall. 

 

"It's all about political propaganda for 45's xenophobic, racist hard core base."

 

And how about the ordinary, rational person who doesn't see how unlimited immigration to a country can possibly be considered to be a right?

 

Especially when the country is a welfare state that will pay the immigrants from debt or citizen's taxes and the (so called immigrants) will not integrate with the country's culture.

 

I don't foresee a wall's happening either, unless Trump pays for it out of his own pocket. All that has to be done is for the US to apply the same illegal migration (in my view immigration is an officially-recognized, legal process) law enforcement that Mexico does - draconian works for me.

 

That's what would happen to me in the country I'm in now if I tried to illegally migrate. Migration is ok for birds and butterflies, but not present-day humans. Unless we want to return to being hunter/gatherers, that is.

[Kiwiken]

The problem is that many see the USA and indeed many Western Countries as safe havens and a way to riches. They are driven by hopes and dreams.

Walls do not stop anyone. As long as Governments are willing to pour taxpayers money to pay welfare and accommodation for these migrants. Plus the problem of Businesses exploiting them as cheap labour. Then we will never stop the problem. People immigrating via the legal channels should never be seen as a problem. But all the rest are just queue jumpers who cripple the Nations burdened with them and leave the genuine Immigrants trapped

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

And how about the ordinary, rational person who doesn't see how unlimited immigration to a country can possibly be considered to be a right?

 

Who here is advocating unlimited immigration?

[MaxYakov]

6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Who here is advocating unlimited immigration?

Who 'here" is neither here nor there. Even if someone wanted a free ride (by either migration or immigration) in a nice, tenable welfare state, they probably wouldn't post that desire here. They'd be communicating with a potential host person in the target country. On the other hand, there are individuals (not necessarily here) who don't want national borders enforced at all.

 

This is a sentence, from the individual's post that I quoted: "It's all about political propaganda for 45's xenophobic, racist hard core base". It implies that there is a component of Trump's base that wants a wall (between the US and Mexico, i.e. US southern border enforced) and they are xenophobic, racist and hard core, yes?

 

So would this individual say that wanting national open borders is a requirement for being non-xenophobic and non-racist and non hard core?

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

...

This is a sentence, from the individual's post that I quoted: "It's all about political propaganda for 45's xenophobic, racist hard core base". It implies that there is a component of Trump's base that wants a wall (between the US and Mexico, i.e. US southern border enforced) and they are xenophobic, racist and hard core, yes?

 

So would this individual say that wanting national open borders is a requirement for being non-xenophobic and non-racist and non hard core?

 

 

 

 

 

Of course not. Desist with your low grade shameless baiting. 

[attrayant]

If it's neither here nor there, then why bring it up at all?  It gives the impression you're engaging in a false dichotomy, ignoring many potential middle ground alternatives by assuming that there are only two possible border states; totally open and completely closed.

Edited September 9, 2017 by attrayant