Putin warns North Korea situation on verge of 'large-scale conflict'

[craigt3365]

Interesting article regarding Russia and China. Things tend to be more complicated than we think.

 

Russia's Korea power play is meant to unnerve

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/01/asia/russia-north-korea-analysis/index.html

[farcanell]

Tomorrow's headline....

 

farcanell warns North Korean situation on verge of large scale conflict.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

Tomorrow's headline....

 

farcanell warns North Korean situation on verge of large scale conflict.

You're an Oracle!

[Krataiboy]

31 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Ghaddafi wasn't done in due to WMDs. He was a brutal dictator and his people got tired of it. Nukes wouldn't have saved him. Just like they can't save Kim if his people turn on him.

 

North Korea did have a chance to stop all this years ago. They decided to end the negotiations. Several times. Not 100% the fault of all the countries involved in the negotiations.

If only life and geopolitics were as simple as some folk seem to imagine.

 

Of course Gaddafi wasn't "done in due to WMD's". As I said in my  original posting, he had already given them up voluntarily. But wherever he is now, he probably earnestly wishes he had kept them.

 

I cannot go along with the simplistic portrayal of Gaddafi as an evil dictator overthrown by a spontaneous uprising of an oppressed and vengeful population. Indisputably, the  man  was no saint, but the country he ruled over for so long was one of the most advanced in the region. (Baby, look at it now it's been "liberated"!)

 

The reasons behind his sudden fall from grace are far more complex and sinister than those spoon-fed to us by the West's corporate mass media. For example: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11606

 

As for North Korea, one can argue till the nukes come home about who screwed up the negotiations, but not about the extremely limited nature of the military threat this bizarre banana-less republic poses to the world.

 

Common sense dictates - and a study of history demonstrates - that military minnows like North Korea do not take on sharks the size of Uncle Sam. If Trump wants to earn brownie points in the history books, he should change his tune from war-war to jaw-jaw - and insist on the talking going on until peaceful agreement is reached.

 

Otherwise, there won't BE any more history books - or any more history.

[FritsSikkink]

15 hours ago, sweatalot said:

So a criminal dictator with nukes and threatening other countries is not really a problem?

Are you talking about Trump?

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

If only life and geopolitics were as simple as some folk seem to imagine.

 

Of course Gaddafi wasn't "done in due to WMD's". As I said in my  original posting, he had already given them up voluntarily. But wherever he is now, he probably earnestly wishes he had kept them.

 

I cannot go along with the simplistic portrayal of Gaddafi as an evil dictator overthrown by a spontaneous uprising of an oppressed and vengeful population. Indisputably, the  man  was no saint, but the country he ruled over for so long was one of the most advanced in the region. (Baby, look at it now it's been "liberated"!)

 

The reasons behind his sudden fall from grace are far more complex and sinister than those spoon-fed to us by the West's corporate mass media. For example: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11606

 

As for North Korea, one can argue till the nukes come home about who screwed up the negotiations, but not about the extremely limited nature of the military threat this bizarre banana-less republic poses to the world.

 

Common sense dictates - and a study of history demonstrates - that military minnows like North Korea do not take on sharks the size of Uncle Sam. If Trump wants to earn brownie points in the history books, he should change his tune from war-war to jaw-jaw - and insist on the talking going on until peaceful agreement is reached.

 

Otherwise, there won't BE any more history books - or any more history.

I feel sorry for those who feel MSM is propaganda. And sadly, turn to sites that are much less reliable. That article is an opinion piece from a guy who's going after NATO with his new book. I prefer to stick with news and not opinion pieces.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/real-news-network/

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes.  These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

[spidermike007]

19 hours ago, nausea said:

Yeah, in my ignorance I was thinking tactical strikes might be an option, buI I just read an article by Geoff Shares (https://warisboring.com/why-there-are-no-military-solutions-for-north-korea/ ) and, wow, it is scary; we're talking WW2 scale casualties and God knows what impact on the global economy. So it seems a military solution is just fantasy, and I have to agrèe Putin is right, however much kowtowing to Kim Fatty the Third might stick in the craw. 

 

Absolutely correct. There is no way to bomb North Korea, and not have it lead to a massive conflict. As usual, Trump is just blowing alot of hot air, and the man who devoted a substantial amount of effort to avoid the Vietnam draft, and who is pathologically scared to death of personal danger, or harm, is just spurting more hyperbole, to placate his devotees. Chances are, if he was in a street fight, and got slapped on the side of the head, he would fall to the ground, crying hysterically. That is just the kind of man he is. Hardly any man at all, in the heat of battle. 

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

I feel sorry for those who feel MSM is propaganda. And sadly, turn to sites that are much less reliable. That article is an opinion piece from a guy who's going after NATO with his new book. I prefer to stick with news and not opinion pieces.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/real-news-network/

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes.  These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

.

Yeah, but. . .

 

A bit baffled about your reference to MSM and people who feel it is propaganda. Tried to check it out on mediabiasfactcheck, but oddly nothing came up.  
 

A Google search showed MSM as the abbreviation for Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane, "a sulphurous substance" commonly found in animal excretions.

 

Not to be sniffed at by the sound of it. But if you would kindly pass on the url, this old fart will definitely give it a go. Anything has got to be better than the malodorous "centre-left" propaganda churned out by MSN.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Krataiboy

[Jonmarleesco]

'... Vladimir Putin ... wrote ... "It is essential to resolve the region's problems through direct dialogue involving all sides without advancing any preconditions ...' What kind of conditions does Putin suppose Kim jong-Un's nuclear gamesmanship represents?

 

'... "Provocations, pressure, and bellicose and offensive rhetoric is the road to nowhere."' Shouldn't Xi be pointing this out to the Fat Haircut? 
 
'A road map formulated by Moscow and Beijing, which would involve North Korea stopping work on its missile programme in exchange for the United States and South Korea halting large-scale war games, was a way to gradually reduce tensions, wrote Putin.' This from the leader of one of two countries which each has an expansion agenda supported by sabre rattling. As for NK stopping something that they could easily restart, Putin seemingly puts more trust in NK than everyone else does.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Jonmarleesco

[inThailand]

Why should anyone recognize and condone NK for violating international laws for decades?

No talk is going to stop stompy from continuing to arming his country.

Your not going to stop him from firing his unsanctioned missiles, so shoot them down.

[Foozool]

This baby was born by Russians and raised by Chinese. it was designed to do it's job as it is doing now. 

 

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, Foozool said:

This baby was born by Russians and raised by Chinese. it was designed to do it's job as it is doing now. 

 

I remember during the cold war that whatever some leader of a communist nation did the blame was always assigned to Russia. Yours is the same kind of thinking.

[Foozool]

28 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I remember during the cold war that whatever some leader of a communist nation did the blame was always assigned to Russia. Yours is the same kind of thinking.

 

I ment government of Russia but of course not the people and it was about government at the time. 

No offenses. ?

[expat_4_life]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I feel sorry for those who feel MSM is propaganda. And sadly, turn to sites that are much less reliable. That article is an opinion piece from a guy who's going after NATO with his new book. I prefer to stick with news and not opinion pieces.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/real-news-network/

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes.  These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

I don't discount your perspective, but then why is the MSM simply story after story - followed by panels of "experts" voicing their opinions?

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

If my homeland happened to be on a well-publicised hit list of countries lined up for regime change courtesy of the worlds largest and most aggressive military superpower, I would want a credible deterrent. Wouldn't you?

 

Perhaps Iran and North Korea have learned the lesson of Saddam Hussein and Muhammar Ghaddafi, who paid for voluntarily giving up their WMD programmes with their own lives, the death and and displacement of millions of their fellow citizens and the dismemberment and plunder of the thriving nation states they had created.

 

One can only hope that Putin's intervention will persuade the new incumbent of the White House to ignore the baying of the mindless dogs of war and the military posturing of the increasingly paranoid North Korean leadership and give diplomacy a chance.

 

Incidentally, contrary to assertions made on this Forum, North Korea has on a number of occasions actively sought negotiations with the US over its nuclear aspirations - notably, when George Bush Jr was orchestrating his War on Terror - and been rejected. Now all too obviously in the cross-hairs of a hawkish American administration, what can a desperate Kim Jong Un do but flex all the military muscle at his disposal as a deterrent?

Well, I agree he did make a valid point some 20 years ago when asked why he won't stop North Korea's Nuclear Program. 

 

He said that the United States has never attached a country who has equal Nuclear Power. Can't agrue with fact I guess. 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

I don't discount your perspective, but then why is the MSM simply story after story - followed by panels of "experts" voicing their opinions?

I try to only follow the news reports. Not opinion pieces. Not easy as every reporter is biased. But with MSM, short for Main Stream Media for those who need the clarification, their articles are vetted very well. That's not the case with smaller sites. I rarely listen to panels of experts unless I really know they are experts! LOL

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I remember during the cold war that whatever some leader of a communist nation did the blame was always assigned to Russia. Yours is the same kind of thinking.

Probably because a certain country tooķ over many countries against their will. Having been to every former satellite state,  I can say most have no desire to go back. That would be their kind of thinking.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Probably because a certain country tooķ over many countries against their will. Having been to every former satellite state,  I can say most have no desire to go back. That would be their kind of thinking.

I knew that you have been travelling there, which has been an impressive action.. but travelling to every former satellite state is far beyond just seeing things. 

I'll buy you a beer, the next time we meet. 

[InMyShadow]

Russia isnt the one getting threatened. If they were Putin would have already assassinated fat boy with a surgical strike

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Russia isnt the one getting threatened. If they were Putin would have already assassinated fat boy with a surgical strike

Because surgical strikes work so well. Like they did against Qadaffi and Saddam.

[craigt3365]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because surgical strikes work so well. Like they did against Qadaffi and Saddam.

Surgical strikes weren't used against Qadaffi. But they worked like a charm against Saddam. LOL

 

The aftermath is another issue.

 

South Korea is ramping up it's missiles. As is Japan. Thanks to fat boy.

[craigt3365]

28 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Russia isnt the one getting threatened. If they were Putin would have already assassinated fat boy with a surgical strike

Probably with radioactive material like Putin did to that poor soul in London.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

Surgical strikes weren't used against Qadaffi. But they worked like a charm against Saddam. LOL

 

The aftermath is another issue.

 

South Korea is ramping up it's missiles. As is Japan. Thanks to fat boy.

"Forewarned by a telephone call, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his family rushed out of their residence in the Bab al-Azizia compound moments before the bombs dropped. It was long thought that the call came from Malta's Prime Minister, Karmenu Mifsud Bonnici.^[21] However, Italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi was the person who actually warned Gaddafi, according to Giulio Andreotti, Italy's foreign minister at the time, and to Abdel Rahman Shalgham, Libya's then-ambassador to Italy.^[22] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_United_States_bombing_of_Libya

[craigt3365]

32 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I knew that you have been travelling there, which has been an impressive action.. but travelling to every former satellite state is far beyond just seeing things. 

I'll buy you a beer, the next time we meet. 

I've spent months traveling around these wonderful countries. A fantastic experience.

 

Beer is on me! In Sri Lanka now headed to Bangladesh tomorrow. Back in a week or so.

[craigt3365]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

"Forewarned by a telephone call, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his family rushed out of their residence in the Bab al-Azizia compound moments before the bombs dropped. It was long thought that the call came from Malta's Prime Minister, Karmenu Mifsud Bonnici.^[21] However, Italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi was the person who actually warned Gaddafi, according to Giulio Andreotti, Italy's foreign minister at the time, and to Abdel Rahman Shalgham, Libya's then-ambassador to Italy.^[22] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_United_States_bombing_of_Libya

Which was in retaliation for the bombing in Germany that killed 3 and injured hundreds.

 

Why do you support brutal killers like this?  Very strange.

[InMyShadow]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Probably with radioactive material like Putin did to that poor soul in London.

Thats a tough one. Not so easy to sneak up on fat boy with a pellet in the end of walking stick or umbrella in North Korea

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Which was in retaliation for the bombing in Germany that killed 3 and injured hundreds.

 

Why do you support brutal killers like this?  Very strange.

Nonsense.

I was replying to a poster who apparently thinks that surgical strikes are a sure thing. I pointed out that the record of success is not good and cited the examples of Qaddafi and Saddam.

You said that there was no surgical strike on Qaddafi.

I pointed out that in fact there was.

Instead of being honest and owning up to the fact that you were wrong, you attack me for supporting Qaddafi. Show me where I said one word that could be construed as support for Qaddafi.

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Probably with radioactive material like Putin did to that poor soul in London.

The CIA tried all kinds of ways to poison Castro.

The North Korean police state makes the Cuba of that era seem like a liberal democracy.

Yet somehow foreign agents are going to arrange a poisoning of Kim?

If it happens, the odds are overwhelming that it will be a strictly local affair.

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Nonsense.

I was replying to a poster who apparently thinks that surgical strikes are a sure thing. I pointed out that the record of success is not good and cited the examples of Qaddafi and Saddam.

You said that there was no surgical strike on Qaddafi.

I pointed out that in fact there was.

Instead of being honest and owning up to the fact that you were wrong, you attack me for supporting Qaddafi. Show me where I said one word that could be construed as support for Qaddafi.

Trying to compare an attack like that, 30 years ago, to what might be done today is ridiculous. And the attack wasn't meant to totally disable Libya. There were only 5 or 6 tsrgets! LOL

 

Let's get back to the topic. This isn't about Cuba nor Libya.

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Trying to compare an attack like that, 30 years ago, to what might be done today is ridiculous. And the attack wasn't meant to totally disable Libya. There were only 5 or 6 tsrgets! LOL

 

Let's get back to the topic. This isn't about Cuba nor Libya.

Not so fast. They absolutely targeted qadaffi's home to kill him. Isn't that what a surgical strike is all about?  And you still haven't retracteded your accusation that  my post supported Qaddafi.  Not honorable at all.