One-year Extension Question

[iforget]

I've just spent a total of nine hours trying to get things right for my one-year extension (my fourth) on the basis of being married to a Thai. This year it's far from easy, and I suspect there will be plenty of other people who will run into a wall on this.

I would appreciate any definitive answers anyone may have. The answer needs to come from someone who has already successfully hurdled this wall.

Background:

1. I have no problem meeting the "money in the bank" qualification nor the monthly income qualification.

2. My wife and I have a limited partnership, just the two of us, allowing me to make some money and to have a work permit. This is not a fake "convenience" company. We DO work, pay taxes, have accounts and an auditor etc etc.

3. I initially supplied the documents defined in Police Order 606/2549. I was told at Immigration in Phuket that 606 is basically out of date and really not that relevant any more. Things have changed.

Here is what I eventually had to supply in support of my application:

1. Application form – two copies (from Immigration office).

2. Passport + 2 copies

3. Wife's ID card + 2 copies

4. Wife's Sumnow Tabien Baan + 2 copies

5. Work permit + 2 copies

6. Two 2"x2" mugshots

7. British marriage certificate + 2 copies

8. Wife's name-change certificate + 2 copies

9. Bank pass book (updated) + 2 copies

10. Partnership certificate of incorporation + 2 copies

11. Company registration details (Samnak ngan tabien hoon suan) (set of 8 pp from Provincial Company Registration Office) + one copy

12. Por Ngor Dor 1 tax form – two copies

13. Por Ngor Dor 91 tax form – two copies

14. Up-to-date company balance sheet – two copies

Here's where it gets difficult.

We were informed that we might - repeat might - need a Registration of Family Status document, without which my application might - repeat might - be kicked back.

We were pointed to the website www.consular.go.th and basically told to do our own research. No one in Phuket Town Immigration seemed at all sure whether we need this document, and absolutely did not know what the document number was, or who should fill it out, what supporting docs are required, and which govt office should process it. The only other information was, "You may have to go to your embassy in Bangkok to get them to certify the genuineness of the marriage certificate".

We did eventually find a link to Document No Khor Ror 22 Registration of Family Status (ทะเบียนฐานะแห่งครอบครัว คร. 22) . When you download this you find it's an English translation, and is totally uninformative. There does not appear to be a Thai version, which is weird. And of course, we have no idea whether this is actually the form we need.

There's one guy at Phuket Town Immigration who usually knows all the answers (regulars will know who I mean). He doesn't know the answer to this one.

So, anyone out there been through this already and knows the drill?

[naka]

We were informed that we might - repeat might - need a Registration of Family Status document, without which my application might - repeat might - be kicked back.

1. Who informed you ?

2. Did you need it ?

Naka.

[iforget]

1. Information came from an immigration officer.

2. Don't know yet. The other papers have gone off to Bangkok. Have to wait and see whether Bangkok demands or not.

A Thai friend has done some research on this. It appears that this is how it works:

1. You fly up to Bangkok with the marriage certificate abd get the Embassy to certify that the certificate is genuine.

2. You get it translated into Thai by a government-approved translator.

3. You go to your nearest amphur (district) office and, on the basis of the certified certificate and approved translation, ask them to issue a Sor Khor 22 stating that you are indeed married.

Franz Kafka would have loved this.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed - they have accepted our marriage certificate as genuine for the past three years. Hope they will do the same this time.

[Maestro]

1. Information came from an immigration officer.

I have taken the liberty of highlighting the name of the immigration office, Phuket, in your original post, for readers to find it easily. As different immigration offices sometimes have different requirements, it was good of you to mention the place where you are applying.

Yesterday, I surfed the net, too, for that mysterious form Khor Ror 22 Registration of Family Status (ทะเบียนฐานะแห่งครอบครัว คร. 22) and just like you, every link I found was only to the English translation of it, including links on the website of Thai consulates, even on a web page written completely in Thai.

--

Maestro

[iforget]

1. Information came from an immigration officer.

I have taken the liberty of highlighting the name of the immigration office, Phuket, in your original post, for readers to find it easily. As different immigration offices sometimes have different requirements, it was good of you to mention the place where you are applying.

Yesterday, I surfed the net, too, for that mysterious form Khor Ror 22 Registration of Family Status (ทะเบียนฐานะแห่งครอบครัว คร. 22) and just like you, every link I found was only to the English translation of it, including links on the website of Thai consulates, even on a web page written completely in Thai.

--

Maestro

Thanks Maestro, for helping a newbie. As for the Khor Ror 22, I'm just going to have to wait and see, I guess.

[iforget]

Aha! Got my one-year extension yesterday without the Khor Ror 22. But Immigration Phuket Captain warned me that I shall definitely need one next time round. Be interesting to see how definite "definite" is.

[croftrobin]

They really do want to see a marriage certificate in Thai (or a copy of one) - and according to your list you don't have one that's where the problems are creeping in.

Here is my experience

I married my Thai wife in Scotland - so UK Marriage Certificate issued.

After staying here on a Multiple Visit one year non O visa and a month before the last exit was due (@15months) we travelled down to Bangkok.

Day 1: I submitted the certificate to the British Embassy requesting a certified copy. (and paid the fee @ 20 UK pounds?(cant remember how much))

Day 2 : Collected the certified copy from the British Embassy, & took a taxi to Chaeng Wattana. The large block of buildings to the right of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (as you face them) has a government approved translation service there. (Called Chaeng Wattana Translations)

Handed over the copy of the Marriage Certificate/Licence. Half an hour later, the translation was complete into Thai, with a double check of all spellings and pronunciations.

Then went next door (@300 Metres) to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, submitted the translated document and the certified copy from the British Embassy.

It was now about lunchtime and they closed at 3 (if I remember)

I was offered 2 options - submit and pay the standard fee & collect tomorrow, or pay double and collect in 2 hours. Given the cost of the taxi there one way is the same as the additional fee, I naturally paid the extra and collected the certified Thai version under 2 hours later after enjoying lunch in the canteen/restaurant.

A painless straightforward experience (Except I had to go to Bangkok to do it! and the biggest delay was waiting overnight for the British Embassy to stamp a seal on a photocopy and sign it!)

All fine, then used the Certified Thai Translation of my UK Marriage Certificate (photocopies of it *2 of course!) in my application for extension for stay a week later together with all the other supporting documents and have done ever since.

In my opinion get a copy of your UK Marriage Certificate/Licence certified by the British Embassy, and the copy translated by an authorised translator, and then the Thai Translation certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and then you will not have any problems about other paperwork.

[iforget]

That's very useful. Many thanks.

A question, though. I was told by Phuket Immigration that I'll need a Khor Ror 22 - a "Registration of Marital Status", which is based on having the docs you describe, and is issued by the local Amphur office.

It may (apparently) require supplying the amphur with pix of myself and my wife posing with smiles in every room of the house including, presumably, the bathrooms. Did you have to do anything like this, or did you just submit your certified certificate to Immigration?

Of course, all this could be just rumour. For now, I'm okay until Sept 2008. I'll get started in August and see what transpires. They may completely upend the rules/requirements by then.

Again, thanks for the info.

They really do want to see a marriage certificate in Thai (or a copy of one) - and according to your list you don't have one that's where the problems are creeping in.

Here is my experience

I married my Thai wife in Scotland - so UK Marriage Certificate issued.

After staying here on a Multiple Visit one year non O visa and a month before the last exit was due (@15months) we travelled down to Bangkok.

Day 1: I submitted the certificate to the British Embassy requesting a certified copy. (and paid the fee @ 20 UK pounds?(cant remember how much))

Day 2 : Collected the certified copy from the British Embassy, & took a taxi to Chaeng Wattana. The large block of buildings to the right of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (as you face them) has a government approved translation service there. (Called Chaeng Wattana Translations)

Handed over the copy of the Marriage Certificate/Licence. Half an hour later, the translation was complete into Thai, with a double check of all spellings and pronunciations.

Then went next door (@300 Metres) to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, submitted the translated document and the certified copy from the British Embassy.

It was now about lunchtime and they closed at 3 (if I remember)

I was offered 2 options - submit and pay the standard fee & collect tomorrow, or pay double and collect in 2 hours. Given the cost of the taxi there one way is the same as the additional fee, I naturally paid the extra and collected the certified Thai version under 2 hours later after enjoying lunch in the canteen/restaurant.

A painless straightforward experience (Except I had to go to Bangkok to do it! and the biggest delay was waiting overnight for the British Embassy to stamp a seal on a photocopy and sign it!)

All fine, then used the Certified Thai Translation of my UK Marriage Certificate (photocopies of it *2 of course!) in my application for extension for stay a week later together with all the other supporting documents and have done ever since.

In my opinion get a copy of your UK Marriage Certificate/Licence certified by the British Embassy, and the copy translated by an authorised translator, and then the Thai Translation certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and then you will not have any problems about other paperwork.

[croftrobin]

That's very useful. Many thanks.

A question, though. I was told by Phuket Immigration that I'll need a Khor Ror 22 - a "Registration of Marital Status", which is based on having the docs you describe, and is issued by the local Amphur office.

It may (apparently) require supplying the amphur with pix of myself and my wife posing with smiles in every room of the house including, presumably, the bathrooms. Did you have to do anything like this, or did you just submit your certified certificate to Immigration?

Of course, all this could be just rumour. For now, I'm okay until Sept 2008. I'll get started in August and see what transpires. They may completely upend the rules/requirements by then.

Again, thanks for the info.

They really do want to see a marriage certificate in Thai (or a copy of one) - and according to your list you don't have one that's where the problems are creeping in.

Here is my experience

I married my Thai wife in Scotland - so UK Marriage Certificate issued.

After staying here on a Multiple Visit one year non O visa and a month before the last exit was due (@15months) we travelled down to Bangkok.

Day 1: I submitted the certificate to the British Embassy requesting a certified copy. (and paid the fee @ 20 UK pounds?(cant remember how much))

Day 2 : Collected the certified copy from the British Embassy, & took a taxi to Chaeng Wattana. The large block of buildings to the right of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (as you face them) has a government approved translation service there. (Called Chaeng Wattana Translations)

Handed over the copy of the Marriage Certificate/Licence. Half an hour later, the translation was complete into Thai, with a double check of all spellings and pronunciations.

Then went next door (@300 Metres) to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, submitted the translated document and the certified copy from the British Embassy.

It was now about lunchtime and they closed at 3 (if I remember)

I was offered 2 options - submit and pay the standard fee & collect tomorrow, or pay double and collect in 2 hours. Given the cost of the taxi there one way is the same as the additional fee, I naturally paid the extra and collected the certified Thai version under 2 hours later after enjoying lunch in the canteen/restaurant.

A painless straightforward experience (Except I had to go to Bangkok to do it! and the biggest delay was waiting overnight for the British Embassy to stamp a seal on a photocopy and sign it!)

All fine, then used the Certified Thai Translation of my UK Marriage Certificate (photocopies of it *2 of course!) in my application for extension for stay a week later together with all the other supporting documents and have done ever since.

In my opinion get a copy of your UK Marriage Certificate/Licence certified by the British Embassy, and the copy translated by an authorised translator, and then the Thai Translation certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and then you will not have any problems about other paperwork.

About two weeks after my first application for the yearly extension, a local police office visited our home, we already had met him at a couple of local weddings over the previous year and he just informed us that he was performing the immigration check for my visa extension.

He asked us a few questions and I supplied him with a few photocopies of my passport with details page and the page with my Non -O -Visa. Thats was it. No photos etc.

However that was perhaps as he already knew that we had been staying at our present address for over 15 months and that my wife ran an internet cafe and small business.

Similar visits were conducted at friends houses upon their own first application for renewal some were asked to show wedding photos etc but it just depends upon your circumstances.

The visit is to check that there is a genuine relationship and that its not just a marriage of convenience.

Nothing to worry about

My thinking is that possibly the Khor Ror 22 may be a document that is issued by the checking officer, however he does not submit the document to you, but submits it directly to immigration (as in his report of his findings - eg an internal document) ?

I have certainly never encountered it and no friends who are in a similar position as myself have ever come across it.

In answer to your question I just submitted the (2 x photocopies) of the certified certificate to Immigration. On the first visit they wanted to see the original and then just handed it back.

On subsequent renewals although I carry it in my case to the office, I have not been asked to show it - they are happy with the photocopies.

[HAL9000]

A Thai friend has done some research on this. It appears that this is how it works:

1. You fly up to Bangkok with the marriage certificate abd get the Embassy to certify that the certificate is genuine.

2. You get it translated into Thai by a government-approved translator.

3. You go to your nearest amphur (district) office and, on the basis of the certified certificate and approved translation, ask them to issue a Sor Khor 22 stating that you are indeed married.

Franz Kafka would have loved this.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed - they have accepted our marriage certificate as genuine for the past three years. Hope they will do the same this time.

It sounds normal considering your visa is based on an overseas marriage. It seems equivalent to my being required to produce translated documents from my embassey certifying that I was in fact single and eligible to participate in my Thai marriage before I got married, as well as supplying my marriage certificate from the Amphor with the visa extension package.

[iforget]

Good point. It's just that it never happened before, and the "instructions" were vague to the point of non-existence. But thanks to you and croftrobin, I now have a much better idea of what to expect. Seems I was grandfathered in this time, but next time it'll be a flight to the Big Durian.

It sounds normal considering your visa is based on an overseas marriage. It seems equivalent to my being required to produce translated documents from my embassey certifying that I was in fact single and eligible to participate in my Thai marriage before I got married, as well as supplying my marriage certificate from the Amphor with the visa extension package.