Fiancee Visa Refual Advice Needed Please

[baxter2004]

Hi There People

Well heres my experience of British Immigration In Bangkok & I’m afraid its not a good one! If anyone can help me I'm all ears!!

I went out to Thailand October last year on a 1 month backpacking holiday with a friend. I met a 27 year old thai girl who was managing a guesthouse we stayed at for a few nights. We fell deeply in love. she spent the final 2 weeks of my holiday with me on Koh Samui & I sadly flew back to the UK. I swiftly arranged a 3 month tourist visa & returned to her in Phuket. We then rented a house on Koh Samui for 6 months to learn each other more.

We got engaged in January this year & on the 6th of February put in our application for a fiancée visa at a cost of £300. We waited & had a call within a few weeks & our interview date was set for the 19th April this year. We had Booked a Provisional Wedding for the 1st of June this year at Crowborough, W.Sussex & I met her parents twice they live in Issam (N.E. Thailand). We had more evidence than you can ever imagine, from letters from my parents during the 7 months we lived as man & wife together in Thailand. Photographs dated of us together during this period, engagement ring receipts, original provisional marriage booking forms, no go go girl history, you name it it was there & Yep they declined it.

Since the refusal I have had to leave my love & return home to the UK. I initially had an interview with the Immigration Advisory Service (charity organisation sperate from uk gov) but they wouldnt even give me 5 minutes because i have 28k in the bank to my name. So after that I employed a lawyer to get some answers. My highly experienced Lawyer states, ‘the Entry Clearance Officer seriously misunderstood the Immigration Rules, applied the wrong standard of proof & his conclusions are not born out by the evidence’. This Entry Clearance Officer (Stephen Taylor, Bangkok Embassy!) did not take any evidence into consideration nor did he make any effort to confirm specific doubts he had. In plain english, he is saying that myself & my love are fraudsters, which is 100% untrue, an absolute disgrace & has no grounds of evidence at all.

I now understand from my lawyer that I can & should appeal. So I have both written to the British Embassy requesting that they reconsider the decision & I have also lodged an Appeal.

What really hurts & is the real BIG ONE is that if I was a Foreign National my appeal would be heard within 4 weeks (i do understand why ofcourse) but because I am British I have to wait for usually one & a half years!!! Since my return home I have cancelled my wedding, turned down the IT job offers (& my higher rate taxes) & will have to return to Thailand to be with my love. We will wait for the one & a half years with no income until our unnecessary appeal will be heard.

In a year & a half when our appeal is heard, somebody, somewhere might actually look at the evidence & I will say that again MIGHT. They will see it was love, if they look. It wasn’t a fraud & by then we will be lucky if we have enough money as a deposit for a garage let alone a home in the UK.

In short, this has been the most inhumane experience I have ever suffered in my 32 years of life & this is my own country doing this to me.

As a direct result of the unjustified refusal (paragraph 290 of HC 395) I have had to put my life on hold, possibly for one & a half years maybe longer. I also have to face the huge financial burden of funding this & this is all because my government have set up a delaying tactic to deter their British National tax payers & their fiancés from persuing such appeals.

I need our appeal to be heard as soon as possible, we don’t deserve to be treated like this & obviously my love’s entry clearance refusal has huge consequences for me personally. The thought of being out of my profession & with no income for the next year & a half really scares me & will effect my life in such a bad way but equally I cant consider being without my love . All I want to do is stay in my great country, pay my higher rate taxes & live with the one I love.

Marriage in Thailand could be an option but my lawyer has advised me to wait for a reply before i do anything.

If anyone can put in front of me from 1st hand experience in plain english what i need to do to get married & have my loved one with me here in the uk please email me. Any Success stories would be equallying encouraging.

Im sorry if I sound a little bitter at present but I cant but feel Royally Fxxxxd up the arse by my own country at present, especially when they are arresting immigrants for leaving our country!

Good Luck to all the Brits out there who have genuinely fallen in love with thai people & who are having to deal with such grave circumstances. Keep it real, Its not complex its Love.

Anthony Baxter

[email protected]

[pnustedt]

You obviously have the resources to see you get your own way Anthony and in the fullness of time you and your loved one will be together - true, no two people in love deserve to be separated. Eventually you and your loved one will be re-united and I wish you every success. I wish you patience, persistence and that your dreams will eventually come true.

[george]

You have a 2,000,000 Baht savings. Why not fly to Bangkok and make a new visa application with yourself present? Or take a year off! Maybe you will find Thailand a better alternative to live in than the cold and rainy UK. Just my 2 satang.

[bangkokblue]

As i said elsewhere and i'll say it again 'forget all the <deleted>' get that next application in. Good luck my fellow brit.

[Richard W]

My highly experienced Lawyer states, ‘the Entry Clearance Officer seriously misunderstood the Immigration Rules, applied the wrong standard of proof & his conclusions are not born out by the evidence’. This Entry Clearance Officer (Stephen Taylor, Bangkok Embassy!) did not take any evidence into consideration nor did he make any effort to confirm specific doubts he had. In plain english, he is saying that myself & my love are fraudsters, which is 100% untrue, an absolute disgrace & has no grounds of evidence at all.

I now understand from my lawyer that I can & should appeal. So I have both written to the British Embassy requesting that they reconsider the decision & I have also lodged an Appeal.

I hope you have better luck than we did appealing against him. Our solicitor claims we were unlucky with the adjudicator we got. My stepdaughter is now stuck with her aunt (mother's sister) in Bangkok, who thought she had finished child-rearing.

18 months seems rather a long time. Our appeal happened within 7 months. If it's an 18 month wait, and you're in Thailand, you'll be married (or have split up) before the appeal is heard!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You have a 2,000,000 Baht savings. Why not fly to Bangkok and make a new visa application with yourself present? Or take a year off! Maybe you will find Thailand a better alternative to live in than the cold and rainy UK. Just my 2 satang.

I agree with George. A reapplication with you present might be better received by the British Embassy. The Immigration staffer will be aware that you are appealing and that might focus his mind a bit.

[Pink Mist]

How many people have had problems with Stephen Taylor's Visa decisions?

Might be worth tackling the problem that way.

[Up2U]

How many people have had problems with Stephen Taylor's Visa decisions?

Might be worth tackling the problem that way.

Not just Stephen Taylor - the British Consular people in BKK seem determined to keep the UK Thai-free (so that there's more space for Afghans, Albanians and such???).

Maybe you could go through one of the Schengen countries? They are far more tolerant of Thais than the UK Consulate.

[Richard W]

Maybe you could go through one of the Schengen countries? They are far more tolerant of Thais than the UK Consulate.

Are you suggesting Anthony Baxter Surinder Singh it? Britain maintains immmigration controls against people travelling from Schengen countries.

[ghengis]

A few of my friends in the UK failed to get a Fiancée Visa at the first attempt. You can appeal this, but if you get married you can immediately re-apply for a Marriage Settlement Visa - different circumstances etc. Most people who get married and then re-apply get their Settlement Visas, including my friends.

The problem with moving to Thailand is that you need proof of income in the UK - last 3 wage slips, 6 months of bank statements etc. If you don't have accommodation or sufficient income then you will fail in any future Settlement Visa application, so moving to Thailand may be counter-productive if your long term objective is live with your future wife in the UK.

The way to get a Settlement Visa is to provide a good set of evidence to be presented at the visa application. Check out the Thailand-UK website and forum for more details.

Moaning about ECOs in Bangkok Embassy is not going to get you anywhere. They have a difficult job to do. Get married in Thailand and then get on with your life. It will turn out OK - you could both be in the UK before the end of the year.

[baxter2004]

Many Thanks from everyone for their input.

It will all work out in the end. Its just been one big unneccesary emotional rollercoaster.

We will WIN 100% because we are genuine.... it will just take some time.

All the Best

[oldoldgit!!]

Have you thought of seeing your MP maybe he could do something for you.

[Loong Dave]

Why don't you try for a different type of visa...a tourist or business visa. Just write a letter saying you and "your business partner" are looking for a business venture it the UK. Once in the UK apply for another visa or take short trips to other countries and bury you visa stamp with other visa stamps. Be creative when dealing with lazy morons. You don't have to lie, just twist the truth.

I had a friend who one time tried the 'fiancee route' into Canada. He got stomped on too but there are all kinds of Canadians taking girls home as tourist with no problem at all.

Hey you just want to get her there....who cares what the visa is call!!!

[Dickie]

All paperpushers hate hassle, so keep having a go. Make a nuisance of yourself. Tends to work with 'up my own arse' types and - boy - does the UK know how to breed those.

An Englishman writes

[baxter2004]

Hi People

Quick update. I'm going back to Thailand to marry her within the next few weeks. maybe go upto Chang Mai for a honeymoon, if anyone knows any nice accomodation for rent let me know!.

I will then pay another £300, wait maybe 3 months for an interview & apply for a marriage visa. Hopefully the added longevity of the relationship & the fact that we will be married then will add weight. We will probably get refused again & again but eventually theyll wake up & smell the cheese.

I'm seeing my local MP for a meeting this friday & will hopefully gain his assistance with appeal timescales etc.

BTW I cant use the Thailand-UK website cause i only have a hotmail account at present so if anyone can tell me exactly where & how to get legally married in Thailand would be very interested.

Cheers

Anthony

[ghengis]

An example of Registration of Marriage in Thailand from Thailand-UK .....

We began by visiting the British Embassy website in Bangkok www.britishemb.or.th which has a comprehensive guide to start you off on the right track. On the home page, under Consular section, click on the “Marriage in Thailand” hyperlink and this takes you to a well presented and printable guidance section of the procedure. It also includes the Embassy location map and timings etc, together with a sample of the “Affirmation of Freedom to Marry” letter that you require to make out to begin the application. I copied this example onto my computer and altered it to represent myself, then printed it out and hey presto, you have your Affirmation letter all ready to present to the Embassy. Do not sign it at this time, the Embassy requires that you complete your signature in front of the official in the Consular section office.

Affirmation applications are accepted between 1300 and 1530hrs Monday thru to Thursday. We walked across the road to the Embassy at 1245 on Tuesday afternoon and there was already a queue at least 50 metres long. However, do not be put off by this, as the majority were visiting the visa section, not the Consular section. So it is through the entrance, across the yard and left up the stairs to the Consular section. There is a ticket system in place, so you retrieve your number and wait for the desk to call you. When called you present your passport, Affirmation of freedom to marry and any previous marriage annulment (decree Absolute)…… this must be the original.

The official will check the information on your affirmation, then hand it back and ask you to sign. You then pay 2,250 baht and will receive a documentation slip and till receipt of your payment. Your passport, annulment documents and Affirmation application are all retained by the Embassy. The official will then inform you to report back the following morning to retrieve the documents, between 0900 and 1100, to the same section.

We wandered across the road to the Embassy again the next morning at 0850, no sign of anyone!!!, however when we arrived at the consular section we were Number 38 in the queue!!!!! The place was full, doors open early. To be honest though most people were just picking up similar documentation and we were done by 0930.

Next step is translation and again good tips and advice came into being. Walk back across the road, but instead of going into the hotel, we turn right and walk to the Phloen Chit Road, approximately 200 metres. At the crossroad take the footbridge over the Phloen Chit and on the top walkway you have 3 choices, left one enters the Skytrain Station Phloen Chit, right is handy to know as it comes out next to a main branch of the Ayyuthaya Bank, ideal for ATM, Visa, Exchange etc. If you go straight across, you come down the other side of Phloen Chit and you are immediately greeted by a wall of Translation shops, literally one after the other for about 100 metres. A friend advised me to use “Express Translation Services,” which is practically immediately to your left as you hit the pavement from the stairway. (An extremely large yellow sign to your left greets you half way down the stairs). It is run by father (Sunthorn) and daughter (Ann). Ann speaks English to near perfection and was absolutely brill. She requires your Affirmation from the Embassy, a copy of your passport and visa, together with a copy of the TM card that is stapled in your passport from entry into Thailand. They complete the translation and have a courier service, so they will do everything for you at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, you do not have to visit if you wish to take up this service. The total charge for this is 1500 baht and will take 2 days. You can however pay 2500 baht (an extra 1000) and get same day service, the extra fee is inclusive of the additional fee at MofFA for same day service, plus the courier waiting time. If you take into account taxi fares each way etc, well it is well worth the extra as far as I am concerned. We paid the 2500 baht and picked up the registered affirmation translation at 1530 the same day from Ann.

We had planned to return home to Banglamung and register our marriage at the local Amphur there. But as we had completed everything a day ahead of ourselves and had booked into the hotel until Friday morning, we therefore decided to visit the nearest Amphur the following morning to finalise the wedding registration.

Ann advised us that the best local Amphur to visit was Khet Phra Khanong Registration Office at Sukhumvit Soi 54. The reason for suggesting this was that they are very familiar there with Farang/Thai marriages there and there would be no problems. Again, from our current location, very easy to reach. Skytrain from Phloen Chit Station to the end of the line….On Nut. (Do NOT get off at Phra Khanong station, go through to On Nut).

On arrival and as you approach the common exit from the station you will see a sign indicating various locations, one of them being the Government District Office….Exit 4. Down the steps and approximately 500 metres straight ahead you will come to the Amphur. Plenty of security around and they will guide you to the Marriage Registration section. We arrived there at 8 a.m. and we were the first in the office. Very helpful, requested to produce passport, affirmation translation, copy of passport and visa, Sanan’s ID card plus copy, Tambien Bhan (Home registration book) plus copy and 500 baht. The officer recommended that a tip would ensure speedy service!!! So another 500 baht crossed the desk and it was all done within 15 minutes. The officer shook our hands and the ladies in the office all clapped, a very nice gesture.

One point worth mentioning is that they keep the original Embassy Affirmation document together with the attached certified Translation, so get a copy of these before you go in.

On leaving the Amphur with your marriage certificate and Government stamped license, there is a photocopy and plasticizing shop directly across the road as you exit the Amphur, so your documents can be protected for all time. We also then took these documents back to Ann and for 900 baht she translated everything into a professional English version, with a certified translation stamp for future reference. Everything completed by 0930 Thursday morning and we went off and had a champagne breakfast.

We hope this information can be of some use and once again we offer our sincerest thanks to everyone who assisted us. It was so pleasant to see everything just go so smoothly with well prepared plans.

[Up2U]

Maybe you could go through one of the Schengen countries? They are far more tolerant of Thais than the UK Consulate.

Are you suggesting Anthony Baxter Surinder Singh it? Britain maintains immmigration controls against people travelling from Schengen countries.

I have many friends in Euro-land, and when I had problems with getting a visa for a friend into UK, I would get Dutch or German visas instead. Much easier. Then visit whichever friends were available, then go on to UK. Never a real problem at the border - only one hold-up of an hour or two with one lady.