Quality Beef In Udon Thani

[bdenner]

Udon Thani has an on-seller of excellent quality beef called the Thai French Beef Company with a little shop on Srisuk Road. Unfortunately it does not keep a large stock and the quality cuts (full eye fillets, rump etc.) are hard to come by.

I believe it is supplied from an abattoir near Sakon Nakhon and customers can buy direct. Can someone give me an idea exactly where the abattoir is located?

[trt]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer. Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

[ray23]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you tried the place he spoke of?

I have and it is good beef just not a large selection.

[bdenner]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

[trt]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.. you can get some pretty crap beef in Perth ... I have tried all types of beef throughout the world and I am very aware of what makes a good steak.. it definately isn't the stuff running around in the fields in Thailand.. It might be grain fed, but wouldn't be anything like the stuff in OZ or the States...

But then again if you like it then good on you... no need to waste money on good quality stuff !

[ray23]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.. you can get some pretty crap beef in Perth ... I have tried all types of beef throughout the world and I am very aware of what makes a good steak.. it definately isn't the stuff running around in the fields in Thailand.. It might be grain fed, but wouldn't be anything like the stuff in OZ or the States...

But then again if you like it then good on you... no need to waste money on good quality stuff !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your absolutley correct as to range fed cattle, but there are feed lot operation's in Thailand, they are grain fed in those operations just as they are any where else. The reason you don't find it often here is it raised for export and not local consumption. You will pay more for the beef mentioned in this thread. I was told that this beef was raised in Khan Kean. I had some interest in it myself as it was something you could do without a lot of land. I have not found anything in Khan Kean yet, but there is a feedlot association in Sukonakorn ( sorry about spelling)

So the beef industry is changing in Thailand you won't find it at the local market, nor Lotus, there is not enough to meet that kind of demand. You have to find a local butchershop, there is the one in Udon very small operation, Just like butchershops used to be, you go in pick you meat and have it sliced the way you want it.

I have no doubt that you know your beef and maybe this won't fit your taste as it does mine. But until you have tried it seems very unfair to me, to say negative things about a small business. There are not a lot of people who will not pay the price for this beef and a struggling business such as this saves me long drives to get what I want locally. I want them to succeed they go under and then I'm back to searching.

So buy a cut prepare it the way you like, taste it and then gives us your thoughts.

But don't put down a specific business unless you have tried it. that is only fair.

[lopburi3]

I am no coinsure of beef steaks but do have more than a passing interest in what tastes good to me and have been very happy with the local pen fed beef I buy at Foodland here in Bangkok. From the hundreds of cars parked in front of Chok Chai farms in Pak Chong last Sunday it seems there are a lot more Thai eating steak these days and a lot of it is rather good. The days of tough steaks that we ate during the Vietnam era are long gone at all but the cheapest venue.

[trt]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.. you can get some pretty crap beef in Perth ... I have tried all types of beef throughout the world and I am very aware of what makes a good steak.. it definately isn't the stuff running around in the fields in Thailand.. It might be grain fed, but wouldn't be anything like the stuff in OZ or the States...

But then again if you like it then good on you... no need to waste money on good quality stuff !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your absolutley correct as to range fed cattle, but there are feed lot operation's in Thailand, they are grain fed in those operations just as they are any where else. The reason you don't find it often here is it raised for export and not local consumption. You will pay more for the beef mentioned in this thread. I was told that this beef was raised in Khan Kean. I had some interest in it myself as it was something you could do without a lot of land. I have not found anything in Khan Kean yet, but there is a feedlot association in Sukonakorn ( sorry about spelling)

So the beef industry is changing in Thailand you won't find it at the local market, nor Lotus, there is not enough to meet that kind of demand. You have to find a local butchershop, there is the one in Udon very small operation, Just like butchershops used to be, you go in pick you meat and have it sliced the way you want it.

I have no doubt that you know your beef and maybe this won't fit your taste as it does mine. But until you have tried it seems very unfair to me, to say negative things about a small business. There are not a lot of people who will not pay the price for this beef and a struggling business such as this saves me long drives to get what I want locally. I want them to succeed they go under and then I'm back to searching.

So buy a cut prepare it the way you like, taste it and then gives us your thoughts.

But don't put down a specific business unless you have tried it. that is only fair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23.. I am not putting down that business.. just Thai beef in general..

I have been involved with beef since birth and now I trade beef on a very large scale.. so trust me I know my beef very well..

The breeds of cattle in Thailand aren't conducive to producing good cuts of beef.. they are the same types that you will find in the NW of OZ.. (tough animals that can stand the hot temperatures)

Also the quality of beef also depends largely on the slaughtering and processing techniques used, of which Thailand is eons behind......

If you want to compare steaks... then maybe we should have a cook off in LOS one day!

[chownah]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.. you can get some pretty crap beef in Perth ... I have tried all types of beef throughout the world and I am very aware of what makes a good steak.. it definately isn't the stuff running around in the fields in Thailand.. It might be grain fed, but wouldn't be anything like the stuff in OZ or the States...

But then again if you like it then good on you... no need to waste money on good quality stuff !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your absolutley correct as to range fed cattle, but there are feed lot operation's in Thailand, they are grain fed in those operations just as they are any where else. The reason you don't find it often here is it raised for export and not local consumption. You will pay more for the beef mentioned in this thread. I was told that this beef was raised in Khan Kean. I had some interest in it myself as it was something you could do without a lot of land. I have not found anything in Khan Kean yet, but there is a feedlot association in Sukonakorn ( sorry about spelling)

So the beef industry is changing in Thailand you won't find it at the local market, nor Lotus, there is not enough to meet that kind of demand. You have to find a local butchershop, there is the one in Udon very small operation, Just like butchershops used to be, you go in pick you meat and have it sliced the way you want it.

I have no doubt that you know your beef and maybe this won't fit your taste as it does mine. But until you have tried it seems very unfair to me, to say negative things about a small business. There are not a lot of people who will not pay the price for this beef and a struggling business such as this saves me long drives to get what I want locally. I want them to succeed they go under and then I'm back to searching.

So buy a cut prepare it the way you like, taste it and then gives us your thoughts.

But don't put down a specific business unless you have tried it. that is only fair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23.. I am not putting down that business.. just Thai beef in general..

I have been involved with beef since birth and now I trade beef on a very large scale.. so trust me I know my beef very well..

The breeds of cattle in Thailand aren't conducive to producing good cuts of beef.. they are the same types that you will find in the NW of OZ.. (tough animals that can stand the hot temperatures)

Also the quality of beef also depends largely on the slaughtering and processing techniques used, of which Thailand is eons behind......

If you want to compare steaks... then maybe we should have a cook off in LOS one day!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know much about what makes for a good quality beef. Do you know about the Charlais (don't know how to spell it and too lazy to look it up on TV) cows that are being raised here in Thailand. They're not the half breed brahmin you talk about. They are feedlot raised and go for a really high price. Perhaps this is the source of the meat these guys are getting. Does this type of cow make good beef in your experience?

Also, I went for a face to face with some instructors at Mae Jo Univ. which is a well known agriculture school in Chiang Mai and among other things I asked them about locker hung beef and they indicated it is done here in Thailand but only for expensive high quality stuff which most Thais have never experienced.

[ray23]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23 is correct. The beef is as good as I get in Perth and I believe it is grain fed. Have you tried it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.. you can get some pretty crap beef in Perth ... I have tried all types of beef throughout the world and I am very aware of what makes a good steak.. it definately isn't the stuff running around in the fields in Thailand.. It might be grain fed, but wouldn't be anything like the stuff in OZ or the States...

But then again if you like it then good on you... no need to waste money on good quality stuff !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your absolutley correct as to range fed cattle, but there are feed lot operation's in Thailand, they are grain fed in those operations just as they are any where else. The reason you don't find it often here is it raised for export and not local consumption. You will pay more for the beef mentioned in this thread. I was told that this beef was raised in Khan Kean. I had some interest in it myself as it was something you could do without a lot of land. I have not found anything in Khan Kean yet, but there is a feedlot association in Sukonakorn ( sorry about spelling)

So the beef industry is changing in Thailand you won't find it at the local market, nor Lotus, there is not enough to meet that kind of demand. You have to find a local butchershop, there is the one in Udon very small operation, Just like butchershops used to be, you go in pick you meat and have it sliced the way you want it.

I have no doubt that you know your beef and maybe this won't fit your taste as it does mine. But until you have tried it seems very unfair to me, to say negative things about a small business. There are not a lot of people who will not pay the price for this beef and a struggling business such as this saves me long drives to get what I want locally. I want them to succeed they go under and then I'm back to searching.

So buy a cut prepare it the way you like, taste it and then gives us your thoughts.

But don't put down a specific business unless you have tried it. that is only fair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ray23.. I am not putting down that business.. just Thai beef in general..

I have been involved with beef since birth and now I trade beef on a very large scale.. so trust me I know my beef very well..

The breeds of cattle in Thailand aren't conducive to producing good cuts of beef.. they are the same types that you will find in the NW of OZ.. (tough animals that can stand the hot temperatures)

Also the quality of beef also depends largely on the slaughtering and processing techniques used, of which Thailand is eons behind......

If you want to compare steaks... then maybe we should have a cook off in LOS one day!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds good you cook I eat LAUGHTER

[trt]

Actually our guys were at the food fair in Bangkok over the past week... you could have tried it there...

[chuchok]

maybe we should have a cook off in LOS one day! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know much about what makes for a good quality beef.  Do you know about the Charlais (don't know how to spell it and too lazy to look it up on TV) cows that are being raised here in Thailand.  They're not the half breed brahmin you talk about.  They are feedlot raised and go for a really high price.  Perhaps this is the source of the meat these guys are getting.  Does this type of cow make good beef in your experience?

Also, I went for a face to face with some instructors at Mae Jo Univ. which is a well known agriculture school in Chiang Mai and among other things I asked them about locker hung beef and they indicated it is done here in Thailand but only for expensive high quality stuff which most Thais have never experienced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CHAROLAIS are a big yeild beast bred primary for meat and taste better than any half bread brahmin.

Even Brahmin can taste ok if you vacume pack it and leave it in the fridge for 3 weeks before consumption.

Not as good as say a black angus though.

[Bangkokbutcher]

I too have been in the meat game for most of my life, hence my user name.

Having dealt with various qualities of meat from different parts of the world, my favourite both to work with and to eat, would have to be the good old Aberdeen Angus (or Black Angus as chuchok has already stated).

Not sure if a successful breeding program could ever be started in los, but they run a good effort over in Australia, so I presume that they can adapt to some extremities in the weather.

All things aside, whether quality beef is available or not, most decent chefs and butchers will know that pretty much anything can be 'dressed' up to taste like a decent steak, just by using a sprinkle of tenderising salt or even a few bashes with a tenserising mallet (small spike on the underside of the head) can transform a tough old piece of shoulder steak (irrelevant of breed) into something that will eat pretty well. So when used on hind 1/4 cuts, rump, sirloin, fillet & ribeye, etc, then the results will be even better.

[bdenner]

OK, some friends and I have just returned from a day trip to Sakon Nakhon (nice city) having found the meat works:-

Pon-Yang-Khram Livestock Breeding Co-operative NSC Ltd. Located some 12 Km out of town on the 223 road to Khok Si Suphan.

Apart from a very professional looking stud and cattle property it has it’s own abattoir, very clean with the meat properly hung, aged, processed and refrigerated. We had been made welcome to look around. It does do direct sales with ALL cuts available accept offal which is only sold on the day of slaughter. They actually cut your choice off the carcass and vacuum pack it.

It also has a restaurant specialising in guess what. Either done in Thai or Farang fashion --- you know! Thick and juicy on a sizzle plate, french fries, salad and the like. Very reasonable prices -- large Singha 45 Baht.

Some of the staff speak a little English but could not explain where the breeding stock originated, they did sell me a book (150 Baht) published by the company detailing company structure, accreditations and all you wanted to know about beef. More importantly how their breeding lines where developed.

For our learned friends (trt ) benefit the breeding stock was developed by crossing 9 imported varieties of European and English stud stock eg. Angus, Brahman, Charolals, Friesian, Hereford and the list goes on, with local stud.

Bottom line:- You want imported beef it’s Up2u, I’m taking the scenic drive to Sakon Nakhon, enjoy a day out and restock the freezer

[chuchok]

What are they charging for say rump steak?(Americans call it Butt I think.)

[chownah]

OK, some friends and I have just returned from a day trip to Sakon Nakhon (nice city) having found the meat works:-

Pon-Yang-Khram Livestock Breeding Co-operative NSC Ltd. Located some 12 Km out of town on the 223 road to Khok Si Suphan.

Apart from a very professional looking stud and cattle property it has it’s own abattoir, very clean with the meat properly hung, aged, processed and refrigerated. We had been made welcome to look around. It does do direct sales with ALL cuts available accept offal which is only sold on the day of slaughter. They actually cut your choice off the carcass and vacuum pack it.

It also has a restaurant specialising in guess what. Either done in Thai or Farang fashion --- you know! Thick and juicy on a sizzle plate, french fries, salad and the like. Very reasonable prices -- large Singha 45 Baht.

Some of the staff speak a little English but could not explain where the breeding stock originated, they did sell me a book (150 Baht) published by the company detailing company structure, accreditations and all you wanted to know about beef. More importantly how their breeding lines where developed.

For our learned friends (trt  ) benefit the breeding stock was developed by crossing 9 imported varieties of European and English stud stock eg. Angus, Brahman, Charolals, Friesian, Hereford and the list goes on, with local stud.

Bottom line:- You want imported beef it’s Up2u, I’m taking the scenic drive to Sakon Nakhon, enjoy a day out and restock the freezer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you really think that all of those breeds have to be bred to get good results? I can only think of two reasons they would do this: 1. It discourages competition (Oh, its so complicated I'm not even going to try it!) and you don't tell what you are really breeding. and 2. They don't know what they're doing so they just go hit and miss. Actually I forgot the ever present extra answer: All of the above.

But of course I know almost nothing about cow breeding which is why I am asking a question here and not suggesting I know the answer.

And by the way the best cut of meat I've had in Thailand was unborn kwai.

[chuchok]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

[ray23]

OK, some friends and I have just returned from a day trip to Sakon Nakhon (nice city) having found the meat works:-

Pon-Yang-Khram Livestock Breeding Co-operative NSC Ltd. Located some 12 Km out of town on the 223 road to Khok Si Suphan.

Apart from a very professional looking stud and cattle property it has it’s own abattoir, very clean with the meat properly hung, aged, processed and refrigerated. We had been made welcome to look around. It does do direct sales with ALL cuts available accept offal which is only sold on the day of slaughter. They actually cut your choice off the carcass and vacuum pack it.

It also has a restaurant specialising in guess what. Either done in Thai or Farang fashion --- you know! Thick and juicy on a sizzle plate, french fries, salad and the like. Very reasonable prices -- large Singha 45 Baht.

Some of the staff speak a little English but could not explain where the breeding stock originated, they did sell me a book (150 Baht) published by the company detailing company structure, accreditations and all you wanted to know about beef. More importantly how their breeding lines where developed.

For our learned friends (trt  ) benefit the breeding stock was developed by crossing 9 imported varieties of European and English stud stock eg. Angus, Brahman, Charolals, Friesian, Hereford and the list goes on, with local stud.

Bottom line:- You want imported beef it’s Up2u, I’m taking the scenic drive to Sakon Nakhon, enjoy a day out and restock the freezer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats outstanding now that I have an idea where it is I will check it out. THANKS

[bdenner]

What are they charging for say rump steak?(Americans call it Butt I think.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We call it 'Rump' down under but here they call it 'Sirloin' priced at 285 Baht/kg. Most expensive is 'Terderloin' (Eye Fillet) at 750, 'T Bone' at 439.

Any of you guys want a scanned copy of the price list send me a return email address.

To some ot the doubters, I know S.F.A. about breeding. Just it takes a long time to develope the animal suited to your needs. I'm sure they didn't just jerk all these beasts off and throw it into a melting pot to see what happens.

[bdenner]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I forgot to add the place is a dairy as well with fresh milk products available --- Maybe the reason for the Friesians being in there?

[chownah]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I forgot to add the place is a dairy as well with fresh milk products available --- Maybe the reason for the Friesians being in there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I'm confused. Did they say that they have all of these breeds at their facility...sort of like a zoo for cows...or did they say that all of these breeds were interbred to come up with their own mix of beef cow?

Also in the US they say sirloin, not butt....as in riding a bike too long makes your sirloin tender.

Also, what is S.F.A.?

Also, can you PM me the scanned info?

[bdenner]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I forgot to add the place is a dairy as well with fresh milk products available --- Maybe the reason for the Friesians being in there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I'm confused. Did they say that they have all of these breeds at their facility...sort of like a zoo for cows...or did they say that all of these breeds were interbred to come up with their own mix of beef cow?

Also in the US they say sirloin, not butt....as in riding a bike too long makes your sirloin tender.

Also, what is S.F.A.?

Also, can you PM me the scanned info?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I interperate the book (with Thai wifes help) is they used these breeds to come up with the final breeding stock, I guess they seperated beef and dairy. It is a little confusing with many pages of flow charts in Thai and English showing the breeding patterns and all sorts of statistical info. Still trying to sort it.

S.F.A -- Aussie term "Sweet F#ck All"

[ray23]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I forgot to add the place is a dairy as well with fresh milk products available --- Maybe the reason for the Friesians being in there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I'm confused. Did they say that they have all of these breeds at their facility...sort of like a zoo for cows...or did they say that all of these breeds were interbred to come up with their own mix of beef cow?

Also in the US they say sirloin, not butt....as in riding a bike too long makes your sirloin tender.

Also, what is S.F.A.?

Also, can you PM me the scanned info?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I interperate the book (with Thai wifes help) is they used these breeds to come up with the final breeding stock, I guess they seperated beef and dairy. It is a little confusing with many pages of flow charts in Thai and English showing the breeding patterns and all sorts of statistical info. Still trying to sort it.

S.F.A -- Aussie term "Sweet F#ck All"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this was one of the Kings projects to develop a breed of cattle here that could withstand the heat and produce qaulity beef. You right not just a shot in the dark the results of years of research.

[chownah]

Does Pon-Yang-Khram Livestock Breeding Co-operative NSC Ltd. sell calves or breeding stock?

[bdenner]

Does Pon-Yang-Khram Livestock Breeding Co-operative NSC Ltd. sell calves or breeding stock?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would only be quessing but if the answer is yes you would need a healthy bank balance. Will let you know when I know!

[The Philosopher]

All men are what they eat - beefy boys

[ozzydom]

If you want quality beef, then you will need to buy it from an importer.  Local beef is only Bhraman cross.. the worst you can get..

Let me know if you want the address of importers of some quality stuff..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you tried the place he spoke of?

I have and it is good beef just not a large selection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ray ,my mate has arrived back from oz and will be back at the farm early this week at Roi-et ,I will pm you his number and you can have a chat and maybe go for a day trip down for a look see at what they do,he,s a top bloke and will help where he can.

ozzydom

[ozzydom]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There breeding program is to come up with a quality marbled steak which originally the japanese market wanted ,ok if you like marbling,personally I dont.

One particular thing I noticed is that the co-op goes for an optimum live weight for slaughter and not age of beast as we do in oz >ie.weaner or yearling, the optimum weight of 750-800kg live weight probably gives the best reclaim ratio.

I believe the co-op now supplies their beef through Macro outlets as well . I to come from farming background but I can still make the best cut of beef taste like buffalo when it comes to cooking.

[ray23]

I have no idea why so many breeds....I mean Friesian??? They are great milk producers...but the meat ain't all that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There breeding program is to come up with a quality marbled steak which originally the japanese market wanted ,ok if you like marbling,personally I dont.

One particular thing I noticed is that the co-op goes for an optimum live weight for slaughter and not age of beast as we do in oz >ie.weaner or yearling, the optimum weight of 750-800kg live weight probably gives the best reclaim ratio.

I believe the co-op now supplies their beef through Macro outlets as well . I to come from farming background but I can still make the best cut of beef taste like buffalo when it comes to cooking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be great to talk to him at least I could find if this is something possible for me to gte involved in.

[ozzydom]

same same Ray,I,m still weighing up the pro,s and con,s, the small amount of land required is a big plus as the beasts are stabled all the time,you only need room for stable,food storeage shed and haystack,a fair bit of water is required as they clean and wash down the floor daily

There breeding program is to come up with a quality marbled steak which originally the japanese market wanted ,ok if you like marbling,personally I dont.

One particular thing I noticed is that the co-op goes for an optimum live weight for slaughter and not age of beast as we do in oz >ie.weaner or yearling, the optimum weight of 750-800kg live weight probably gives the best reclaim ratio.

I believe the co-op now supplies their beef through Macro outlets as well . I to come from farming background but I can still make the best cut of beef taste like buffalo when it comes to cooking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be great to talk to him at least I could find if this is something possible for me to gte involved in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>