Laos Girlfriend Pregnant! Help!

[Boothy]

Hello All, I really need some advice, I am from the UK, I've been living in Thailand for the last 6 months with my Laos girlfriend (pratically since I met her), she is here legally on a tourist visa, myself on a Non Immigrant B.

I've recently found out she's a month pregnant which is nice but also incredibly worrying. We are quite concerned due to the nature of Laos laws regarding Laos/Foreigner relationships.

The UK embassy have said I need to apply for a fiance visa, if I want to get her into the UK, I think this is our only option. My mum has agreed to put us up when we get back and is to send proof that she owns her house and we can live there etc., we've also applied to be married at a registry office so that the British Embassy can see we intend to marry.

I am very concerned about our poor financial status (afterall I've been earning in Thailand) and the lack of ability to prove I can support her when I return. I've asked my Dad to send his bank account statements across but he's a technophobe and is worried about being de-frauded. I'm also unsure of the process and wondered if anybody with prior experience can help. I'm thinking the best thing to do is put her application in motion and then return to the UK to find work.

I am getting quite desperate, we have 6 weeks left in Thailand before our visas here finish, I do not intend to go to Laos for fear of arrest. I am worried if she stays in Laos with the baby what will happen. We're very much in love and want to be together and help give our child the best possible start.

Can anyone give me some useful advice?

Thanks

[toptuan]

Can anyone give me some useful advice?

Yes, think before acting. An especially vexing situation by getting involved with a Lao national, as you have belatedly discovered.

You might start by researching into what causes the condition we call "pregnancy," to avoid a similar future scenario.

I counsel a number of university students in the same situation: a low-paying or no job, poor as a soi dog, thinking about thrusting their problems onto equally-stressed parents, etc. None of the options they face are very pretty.

Sorry, but it had to be said. I am at a loss to share with you anything very positive beyond that. Let's hope some of our TV'ers can come up with something more useful/practical than I can.

At least you evidence a sense of after-the-fact/act responsibility . Many more guys in your situation fly the coop or go the abortion route. Good luck.

Edited February 23, 2007 by toptuan

[jakesideas]

Congratulations! It will be very exciting to have your first child. First of all try to stay clear-headed and positive and don't listen to comments such as the last one. Sure things could be better but life is not perfect and we make the best of difficult situations. Trust me.. things could be a lot worse. My advice is to research the visa situation and start the application process as soon as you can. You can probably apply through your embassy in Bangkok. In the meantime work on strengthening your relationship and keeping your girlfriend healthy.

Anybody know what the laws/culture is like in Laos in regards to having a baby with a foreigner?

Maybe your girlfriend can go back to Laos and get a tourist visa renewal and return to Thailand without telling anyone of her pregnancy.

[samran]

you are about to bring a little baby into the world. They are tonnes of responsibilty, but they are totally fun and a joy to have. With you already taking the steps to make sure that the baby enters the world with the best possible start, there is no doubt that you will be a great dad

As for the visa situation, it will be best to wait for someone like Scouser to come on line and see what his advice is. I think though from my understanding, so long as you are on the birth certificate, the child becomes a UK national automatically.

Good luck, you'll enjoy being a dad. It is a huge joy.

[midas]

Anybody know what the laws/culture is like in Laos in regards to having a baby with a foreigner?

Maybe your girlfriend can go back to Laos and get a tourist visa renewal and return to Thailand without telling anyone of her pregnancy.

Yes - foreigners arent even allowed to marry with Laos citizens without prior consent so having

a baby outside of this consent would appear to be against the law. Boothy definitely shouldn't risk

going there now under the circumstances may it be even unwise for his partner to hang around there for long.

I think he needs to keep pursuing the fiance visa to the UK with all his energy because relying on

tourist visas for Thailand isn't going to be a very practical solution in the long run

[midas]

this advice is from the US State Department :-

RELATIONSHIPS WITH LAO CITIZENS: The Lao Government prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national may be interrogated, detained, arrested, or jailed. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to $5000 on foreigners who enter into disapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may also be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

Foreign citizens intending to marry Lao nationals are required by Lao law to obtain prior permission from the Lao Government. The formal application process can take as long as a year. American citizens may obtain information about these requirements from the U.S. Embassy in Vientiane. The Lao Government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. Any attempt to circumvent Lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of $500-$5000, and deportation. Foreigners who cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with Lao nationals may be accused by Lao authorities of entering an illegal marriage and be subject to the same penalties.

Foreign citizens who wish to become engaged to a Lao national are required to obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the Lao national resides. Failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of $500-$5000. [b]Lao police frequently impose large fines on foreign citizens a few days after they hold an engagement ceremony with a Lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple probably subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock. [/b]

[smartecosse]

my partner is from laos and we have just had our first child

there are major probs with Laos nationals as you have discovered - this includes then traveling pretty much anywhere outside of Asia. however she can stay in thailand (30 days @ a time) indefinetlet due to the agreement between Lao and Thailand

Can I ask why you now feel the need to head back to the UK? You can get married here and continue working here, afterall your money will go a lot further here on babay items thanit does in the UK.

[dong]

Hello All, I really need some advice, I am from the UK, I've been living in Thailand for the last 6 months with my Laos girlfriend (pratically since I met her), she is here legally on a tourist visa, myself on a Non Immigrant B.

I've recently found out she's a month pregnant which is nice but also incredibly worrying. We are quite concerned due to the nature of Laos laws regarding Laos/Foreigner relationships.

The UK embassy have said I need to apply for a fiance visa, if I want to get her into the UK, I think this is our only option. My mum has agreed to put us up when we get back and is to send proof that she owns her house and we can live there etc., we've also applied to be married at a registry office so that the British Embassy can see we intend to marry.

I am very concerned about our poor financial status (afterall I've been earning in Thailand) and the lack of ability to prove I can support her when I return. I've asked my Dad to send his bank account statements across but he's a technophobe and is worried about being de-frauded. I'm also unsure of the process and wondered if anybody with prior experience can help. I'm thinking the best thing to do is put her application in motion and then return to the UK to find work.

I am getting quite desperate, we have 6 weeks left in Thailand before our visas here finish, I do not intend to go to Laos for fear of arrest. I am worried if she stays in Laos with the baby what will happen. We're very much in love and want to be together and help give our child the best possible start.

Can anyone give me some useful advice?

Thanks

My ex girlfriend is from laos, she had a baby last year to a falang, ( baby born in thailand )doesnt seem to worry her, shes in and out of laos with the baby on visa's to thailand,

[midas]

My ex girlfriend is from laos, she had a baby last year to a falang, ( baby born in thailand )doesnt seem to worry her, shes in and out of laos with the baby on visa's to thailand,

Dong - just because your ex-girlfriend hasnt encountered any problems so far doesn't mean its wise

for Boothy and his girlfriend to have the same complacency !! The government officials of Laos

are a very unpredictable group of people - not to be messed with ! who knows - your ex girlfriend might have

"connections " in high places to while Boothy's partner might not .........

[Mahout Angrit]

The short time you've known each other it is by no means certain you will be given a fiancee visa to go to UK especially with no evidence of being able to support each other once there. The fact that your girlfriend is pregnant could be seen as a ploy by her to get to UK. You could race back to UK and set yourself up with a job and housing but then there could be a doubt about your relationship as you are no longer together.

As you both seem to be managing in Thailand now, I think you should consider staying in Thailand at least until the child is born and beyond, get married in Thailand as it seems to be your intention as you speak. After showing you are both committed to your relationship and proving you wish to stay together you should have little problem in being successsful with a settlement visa application for the UK when you feel ready.

Other posters seem to think your girlfriend should be able to continue to come and go from Laos even if she has to wear some loose clothing at times. Presumably you can stay in Thailand.

[samran]

if they marry in Thailand, and he has the requiste work permits and extended non-B, there is no reason her extension to stay can't be liked with his. Afterall, many expats come to work here and their foreign spouses stay is simple linked to the primary work permit holder.

[Mahout Angrit]

if they marry in Thailand, and he has the requiste work permits and extended non-B, there is no reason her extension to stay can't be liked with his. Afterall, many expats come to work here and their foreign spouses stay is simple linked to the primary work permit holder.

Good point Samran, seems like the best solution. If the OP posts his questions about getting his wife a dependant visa linked to his WP in the "Visa for Thailand " forum I'm sure he'll get all the advice he needs then his wife will not need to return regularly to Laos while pregnant.

[Boothy]

Thanks for all your responses, I want to return to England: after living here for three and a half years and then coming back for another 6 months (after a year in the UK) I don't see my future in Thailand, let alone my first child's, my girlfriend isn't particularly fond of Thailand either. I'm sure as ex-pats you can appreciate this (even if you don't agree with the points of view). Ironically enough a life in Laos would have been perfect, but that is not to be for now. I have a supportive family back home, free schooling, free(ish) health care, my friends etc. The pregancy is certainly not a ploy although I do understand the statement.

In effect I'm asking for sound advice regarding ensuring the fiance(e) visa, I understand our relationship is relativley short term, is there a finite period whereby visas are, or are not issued? If 6/7 months is not long enough then how long is? If I have to stay in Thailand longer than so be it, but I would rather be earning in the UK where my earning potential is a lot higher than it is here, afterall I will have a family to support in the not too distant future.

[ray23]

I tend to agree why not marry in Thailand. Money wise you've been making OK or at least it seems like it, so just continue on. Yuo may make a more money in the UK but the cost of living s goign to absorb a lot of that extra cash. Do you really want to move back into your parents home. I'm sure they are lovely people , but it won't be like having your own place.

You two will have a lot on your plate already with a new mariage and a new baby.

If I were you I would do my research into a Thai marriage and the possiblity of returning to England as a married couple if that is what you need to do in the future

[GU22]

If you can show that, on the balance of probabilities, the relationship is real and that you do intend to marry each other and settle indefinitely in the UK then you should be able to get a fiance visa for her.

You will also have to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements, but if your mum is offering to do this for you that should be ok too.

Have a good read of the following:-

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4)

Chapter 9 – The maintenance and accommodation requirements

CHAPTER 13 - SETTLEMENT : FIANCÉ(E)S, PROPOSED CIVIL PARTNERS, SPOUSES, CIVIL PARTNERS, UNMARRIED AND SAME-SEX PARTNERS

And for how to apply:-

Visa Application Centre

Tuberculosis Testing

Document checklist

People should normally apply to the embassy in their country of residence. She is not legally resident in Thailand, only a tourist visa, but as the Bangkok embassy deals with visa applications from Laos I cannot see why she should not be able to apply in Bangkok.

Edited February 23, 2007 by GU22

[Boothy]

I've obviously given this some thought, going home wasn't my first option but when I came to it, that was/is my final decision. I think it's the best for my girlfriend and child (to be), my knee jerk reaction was to think the child would be better off in Asia, kids are allowed to be kids here, but look at the state of the schools and the education system in Thailand, not to mention it's national psyche, I want to give him/her the best start, and that isn't here. Do I want to pay exhorbitant fees to send them to an International School, when the education system in England coupled with home support is far superior and not to mention cheaper. Giving the matter real deep actual thought, I don't believe that to be the case. Seems funny a few years ago I'd dread the thought of England, but after being there last year and coming back here I see things a lot differently. The top and bottom of it is neither of us want to be here anymore, we don't want to bring up a child up in Bangkok? Why stay here any longer than need be?

[smartecosse]

you actually think the education system in the UK works?

your joking right? even the govt has finally admitted that they have a major problem...........

[Boothy]

Yes I do, it's far more effective than Thailand's and I did add with home support, furthermore the UK is facing up to it's problems... I really would like some advise about the fiance visa.. anybody ever been in the same situation?

[mr_hippo]

Boothy says "Kids are allowed to be kids here" School days - up before dawn, stay at school until someone picks them up, home about 6 o'clock. Weekends - Saturday Language school, afternoon - ballet. Sunday morning piano lessons, afternoon, music lessons - when do they have time to be kids? I am not saying that this happens to all children. Kids helping out at their parent's noodle stall, selling garlands at traffic junctions.

[smartecosse]

well we're gonna stay here so check back to this thread in 18 yrs and I can tell you how our half lao half scottish kid did inthailand

[toptuan]

Congratulations! It will be very exciting to have your first child. First of all try to stay clear-headed and positive and don't listen to comments such as the last one.

Your pie-in-the-sky post shows a lot of ignorance about the deep mess our OP has gotten himself into--especially about the seriousness of intimate relations with a Lao national.

Thanks to the other posters for bringing some solid experience/knowledge into this thread.

Edited February 23, 2007 by toptuan

[Mahout Angrit]

I want to give him/her the best start, and that isn't here. Do I want to pay exhorbitant fees to send them to an International School, when the education system in England coupled with home support is far superior and not to mention cheaper. Giving the matter real deep actual thought, I don't believe that to be the case. Seems funny a few years ago I'd dread the thought of England, but after being there last year and coming back here I see things a lot differently. The top and bottom of it is neither of us want to be here anymore, we don't want to bring up a child up in Bangkok? Why stay here any longer than need be?

Aren't you looking a bit too far down the line and from only your perspective? Your child will not need to go near a school for the next 5 years, the little one wont know or care whether he/she is in UK, Thailand or Laos, it only matters that he/she is loved at home wherever that may be. Have you considered how your wife will settle in UK living with the inlaws (not the best way to start married life even with the best will in the world). Without so much as a visit to UK your girlfriend has no idea what she is letting herself in for. Wouldn't you both prefer to have privacy and bring your child up 'your way'? If you give yourselves time you could make a balanced decision on the future of all of you and if you decided later that UK was the way to go then the visa application would be a formality and your family may well have a home of their own by then. If you are determined to go for the fiancee visa you dont have to convince us but the ECO at the embassy, all the help you need has been posted above by GU22. Good luck

[mrbojangles]

your joking right? even the govt has finally admitted that they have a major problem...........

I know what your'e saying but the education system in the UK ain't all that bad. Of course the Gont has admitted problems but most countries do. Thailand would never admit they have problems in education, blimey they don't even admit they have a problem in the south

As for th op. Although he may have just had enough money to take care of himself, when the baby comes along he'll have 3 mouths to feed. A totally different perspective on his economics. Also, in the UK he'll have support from relatives, something he won't have in Thailand and he's scared to death of going seeing the in-laws in Laos.

Good luck anyways Boothy

[topfield]

If you can show that, on the balance of probabilities, the relationship is real and that you do intend to marry each other and settle indefinitely in the UK then you should be able to get a fiance visa for her.

You will also have to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements, but if your mum is offering to do this for you that should be ok too.

Have a good read of the following:-

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4)

Chapter 9 – The maintenance and accommodation requirements

CHAPTER 13 - SETTLEMENT : FIANCÉ(E)S, PROPOSED CIVIL PARTNERS, SPOUSES, CIVIL PARTNERS, UNMARRIED AND SAME-SEX PARTNERS

And for how to apply:-

Visa Application Centre

Tuberculosis Testing

Document checklist

People should normally apply to the embassy in their country of residence. She is not legally resident in Thailand, only a tourist visa, but as the Bangkok embassy deals with visa applications from Laos I cannot see why she should not be able to apply in Bangkok.

Not so fast ! Are you sure a Thai Amphur would permit a legal marriage of a foreigner if he or she does not produce the Freedom to Marry document stamped by the relevant Embassy ? It's s clear from the postings above the Lao Embassy would never stamp such a document for the wife. True or false ? as have never asked an Amphur about Lao nationals marrying nor dealt with such a case .

[TerryLH]

Mr. P

Congrats

Good luck with the visa.

T

[seagull]

Mr. P

Congrats

Good luck with the visa.

T

who is Mr. P? Anyway, boothy, I am not in your predicament, so I wouldn't be much help to you. Just take which ever advises posted here that you deem suitable. But I must agree with some posters here that your immediate task is to solve the visa matters, and not about future education for your child to be. Though it is highly responsible of you to do so, but not right now. Think about that before you get thrown into jail by the laos authorities. Then all is lost.

Good luck, Mr. Boothy.

[cclub75]

I'm speechless. I didn't know that. What a fxxxx little stalinist country.

Anyway.

That's the best thing that could happen...

Just apply in UK for... asylum for humanitarian reasons.

Your girlfriend is clearly at risk if she goes back to Laos.

Furthermore, you should contact british newspapers and associations, to put light on your story and put pressure on the UK administration to speed up the process.

I mean your story is perfect : young, love, child to born, a stupid and harsh law (stone age version), in a remote asian country.

Go for it ! And good luck.

this advice is from the US State Department :-

RELATIONSHIPS WITH LAO CITIZENS: The Lao Government prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national may be interrogated, detained, arrested, or jailed. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to $5000 on foreigners who enter into disapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may also be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

[sonicdragon]

Even if she could claim asylum in the UK, she would first have to get there would she not ?

[GU22]

Not so fast ! Are you sure a Thai Amphur would permit a legal marriage of a foreigner if he or she does not produce the Freedom to Marry document stamped by the relevant Embassy ? It's s clear from the postings above the Lao Embassy would never stamp such a document for the wife. True or false ?

They probably would not marry two foreigners without the relevant AFMs.

But as we are talking about a fiance visa to the UK so they can marry in the UK, the point is irrelevant.

[pumpuiman]

I don't know about a U.K. fiance visa......But The U.S. fiance visa allowed for an "affidavit of support" Which is supposed to be completed by the intended spouse, but additional affidavit's can be completed by your family, saying they will be responsible for her financially (and legally)

The U.S. visa took about six months to get.

I would speak to "Sunbelt" They sponsor this forum and offer legal/visa advice at a fair price.

Calm down, take things one step at a time.

Everything will work out.

Give "Sunbelt" a call

Edited February 24, 2007 by pumpuiman