Er Versus Khrap

[mrbojangles]

When the wife is talking to people and agreeing with them, she says"er, er, er, er, er, er" etc. However, when i say "er" to her as in agreement, she says, no i can't say that. She says i have to say Khrap at it is more polite. Why can Thais say it but Farangs can't? Also, has anybody else got any instances when it is OK for a Thai to say something but a Farang has to say something else?

Yours, forever frustratingly learning Thai, MrBoJ

[meadish_sweetball]

This is a classic source of frustration, but something you will have to get used to until you have a really good grasp of nuances - I still go with 'khrap' to 'err' on the side of politeness (pun unintended until I saw it). I will dig up some other threads about this soon, in the meanwhile I am sure almost everyone has experienced this phenomenon of 'do as I say, don't do as I do'.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38022

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28091

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28454

...about being polite.

[Khutan]

I have been told a number of times only to use "err" in my family or with close Thai friends.

[loong]

Whenever I use "err" it is always followed by a laugh and chuckle from the Thais.

I've never understood why they find it so amusing coming from a farang

I do usually use "Khrup", but sometimes "err" slips out when I'm not thinking

Edited August 8, 2005 by loong

[mrbojangles]

Cheers for that Meadish.

Mattnich, When i asked the wife this, she said the same. She only uses it with close family and friends. So why can't i use it with you then, i said to the wife (as she is surely my family and friend). Because it's not nice or polite, she said, you have to say Khrap I think it's as Meadish says, do as i say, not as i do I was on the phone to her today and tried slipping it in "err" i mean (lets keep it clean) and she picked me up on it straight away. There is another one when on the phone and saying "Hello" versus "Waay". Have you come across that one also?

MrBoJ

[mrbojangles]

Whenever I use "err" it is always followed by a laugh and chuckle from the Thais.

I've never understood why they find it so amusing coming from a farang

Yeah, it's the same here Loong. That's what i'm trying to understand

[meadish_sweetball]

Some reasons for the chuckle: That part of Thai is considered 'Thai only' territory, and is associated with countryside speech - especially Lao/Isaan, which in turn is associated with the stand-up comedians 'dtalok kaafeh'.

Thais rather often joke amongst each other by speaking mock-Isaan.

[Boon Mee]

I ran into trouble replying to a Thai I've known for some time online using เออ 'urr' so now I only use ไช่ or ไช่ เห็นด้วย 'chai hen duay' when speaking with anyone other than close friends and family.

Point of interest: As for as us Farangs go, I believe it's acceptable to use อ๋อ 'oh' even when speaking with strangers.

[mrbojangles]

BoonMee, how do you mean "you ran into trouble"? Did he/she laugh and correct you, as in Loongs post? Or, was he/she quite firm that you cannot this?

Could you also use "Kao Jai" or would this be in the wrong context if just agreeing with someone

[Boon Mee]

BoonMee, how do you mean "you ran into trouble"? Did he/she laugh and correct you, as in Loongs post? Or, was he/she quite firm that you cannot this?

Could you also use "Kao Jai" or would this be in the wrong context if just agreeing with someone

It was a 'she' and she took offense that I was being too 'forward'.

Then again, this particular lady riles easily!

'Kao Jai' is used more specifically as 'understand' as opposed to 'chai hen duay' where you're aggreeing with someone.

Edited August 8, 2005 by Boon Mee

[meadish_sweetball]

Yep, Boon is right - 'chai, hen duay (khrap)' is a neutral solution, and อ๋อ 'oh' with rising tone, is also fine.

[yoot]

เออ is kind of a curt reply. It’s used by the older to reply or allow the younger to do something. Or among close friends if among you and your friends usually talk to each other with impolite words such as กู , มึง , เอ็ง , ข้า ฯลฯ . There is an exception, you can use it with your friends, though, you seldom use impolite words with each other . It means you are angry with them or you feel they offend you.

To use this word with your family doesn’t sound nice though. Normally in the educated family , this word isn’t allowed to use among people in the family. But for many families which are used to using impolite words with each other , it’s ok to use it.

It would make you look nice if you don’t use this word with anyone. No matter you are Thais or Farangs. Instead of using เออ you should use ครับ , ค่ะ , จ้ะ , ใช่ ฯลฯ (depends on the content)

[mrbojangles]

Cheers guys for your replies. I'll use 'chai, hen duay khrap' or 'oh'. Are there any more types of this instance, when it's OK for Thais to say something but frowned/laughed when Farang use them like "Hello" versus "Waay" when answering the phone. Is it fine to say "Waay" to a friend when answering the telephone?

[RamdomChances]

I use "err" quite a bit, usually just with drinking mates though. I always translated it a bit like the english "hmm"

[withnail]

In the a.u.a book another option is given ฮึ่ม which is transliterated as hmm (falling tone).

Just a thougt though if an เออ accidentally slips out and you follow it with ไช does that sound better i.e urr chai or urr chai chai I've heard one of the teachers at school do this a lot.

Edited August 9, 2005 by withnail

[withnail]

I'd also like to add in the defence of Thai people that I totally understand them disliking it when we speak like they do I'm English and like most people I know I probably swear too much and whilst it doesn't even phase me when another English speaker does it I must admit I don't think it sounds nice coming out of a Thai persons mouth.

I think it's because of a couple of different reasons. Firstly I have a good idea of whether or not the person I am talking to will be offended or not if I swear. Therefore I may choose my words differently if I am in the company of certain people.

I would presume that a Thai person might not have as good an idea of when the F word is considered ok or not as me and consequently if I heard it might guess that they use this language all the time i.e. too much

The other thing is that when someone is learning a new language you could argue that they have a choice in the language they use whereas for us native speakers it's something we're brought up with.

English people I think tend to swear for comic affect and particular swear words go well in certain phrases. However when used outside of these phrases they can sound unnecessary.

I think it was comedian Dave Allan who said (something along the lines of) "The F word makes an excellent exclamation mark but not a very good comma"

[yoot]

In the a.u.a book another option is given ฮึ่ม which is transliterated as hmm (falling tone).

Just a thougt though if an เออ accidentally slips out and you follow it with ไช does that sound better i.e urr chai or urr chai chai I've heard one of the teachers at school do this a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เออ can be pronounced as mid tone and low tone when it is used in speaking.

เออ(mid tone)= Hmmm.. E.g. เออ ผมว่า Hmmm..I think....

เอ่อ(low tone) = Yes or Ah. E.g. เอ่อ ใช่ Ah, yes,.... .

For using เอ่อ ใช่, it doesn't sound impolite because it's shown that the speaker thinks out something and want to talk about it. But if you want to mean " Yes, that's right" . It's a bit impolite.

[yoot]

Cheers guys for your replies. I'll use 'chai, hen duay khrap' or 'oh'. Are there any more types of this instance, when it's OK for Thais to say something but frowned/laughed when Farang use them like "Hello" versus "Waay" when answering the phone. Is it fine to say "Waay" to a friend when answering the telephone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't quite get the term "Waay" you mentioned. If you mean ว่าไง-wâa ngai or ว่ายังไง-wâa yang ngai , it is fine to say to a friend when answering the telephone.

For example;

ว่าไง สบายดีมั้ย ไม่ได้เจอกันตั้งนาน

- wâa ngai sà-baai dee mái mâi dâai jer gan dtâng naan

- Hi, how are you ? long time no see.

[withnail]

In the a.u.a book another option is given ฮึ่ม which is transliterated as hmm (falling tone).

Just a thougt though if an เออ accidentally slips out and you follow it with ไช does that sound better i.e urr chai or urr chai chai I've heard one of the teachers at school do this a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เออ can be pronounced as mid tone and low tone when it is used in speaking.

เออ(mid tone)= Hmmm.. E.g. เออ ผมว่า Hmmm..I think....

เอ่อ(low tone) = Yes or Ah. E.g. เอ่อ ใช่ Ah, yes,.... .

For using เอ่อ ใช่, it doesn't sound impolite because it's shown that the speaker thinks out something and want to talk about it. But if you want to mean " Yes, that's right" . It's a bit impolite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เอ่อ ใช

[mrbojangles]

I'd also like to add in the defence of Thai people that I totally understand them disliking it when we speak like they do I'm English and like most people I know I probably swear too much and whilst it doesn't even phase me when another English speaker does it I must admit I don't think it sounds nice coming out of a Thai persons mouth.

Good point, well made Withnail. Never really thought of it that way.

[mrbojangles]

Cheers guys for your replies. I'll use 'chai, hen duay khrap' or 'oh'. Are there any more types of this instance, when it's OK for Thais to say something but frowned/laughed when Farang use them like "Hello" versus "Waay" when answering the phone. Is it fine to say "Waay" to a friend when answering the telephone?

I don't quite get the term "Waay" you mentioned. If you mean ว่าไง-wâa ngai or ว่ายังไง-wâa yang ngai , it is fine to say to a friend when answering the telephone.

For example;

ว่าไง สบายดีมั้ย ไม่ได้เจอกันตั้งนาน

- wâa ngai sà-baai dee mái mâi dâai jer gan dtâng naan

- Hi, how are you ? long time no see.

Yeah, sorry Yoot "Waay" was probably wrong, yours seems to fit better in the context of what i was after. But it seems OK for me to say. Is the "ng" in "ngai" pronounced the same way as in the alphabet for Snake (ngor ngoo)

[meadish_sweetball]

Cheers guys for your replies. I'll use 'chai, hen duay khrap' or 'oh'. Are there any more types of this instance, when it's OK for Thais to say something but frowned/laughed when Farang use them like "Hello" versus "Waay" when answering the phone. Is it fine to say "Waay" to a friend when answering the telephone?

I don't quite get the term "Waay" you mentioned. If you mean ว่าไง-wâa ngai or ว่ายังไง-wâa yang ngai , it is fine to say to a friend when answering the telephone.

For example;

ว่าไง สบายดีมั้ย ไม่ได้เจอกันตั้งนาน

- wâa ngai sà-baai dee mái mâi dâai jer gan dtâng naan

- Hi, how are you ? long time no see.

Yeah, sorry Yoot "Waay" was probably wrong, yours seems to fit better in the context of what i was after. But it seems OK for me to say. Is the "ng" in "ngai" pronounced the same way as in the alphabet for Snake (ngor ngoo)

Yes, it's the same pronunciation.

'wâa ngai' is a spoken language shortening of 'wâa yàang-rai'

'yàang-rai' being a question word meaning '(in) what manner' = 'how',

and 'wâa' is a shortening of 'bòrk wâa, or 'khít wâa' = to say (that), to think (that)

So when you say 'wâa ngai', it's somewhat like saying 'wazzup' or 'whatcha saying'/'what's on yer mind' in English.