aaaaaa Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 ha! that's a good question ! I look forward to Thaksin's return and defending himself in court, as he's promised. let's hope guy has enough testicullo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 UPDATE Thaksin & Suriya AoT to file CTX scanners complaint Thaksin named as culprit in overpricing The board of Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) is filing a corruption complaint as a damaged party against individuals, including ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and a former transport minister, Suriya Jungrungreangkit, over the allegedly inflated price of the CTX baggage scanners. It has filed the complaint with the Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC), which established there are grounds to the allegation, in a fact-finding process. The AoT will now proceed to file a complaint to formally begin the inquiry stage of the investigation before the case is forwarded to court. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/12Jan2007_news08.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Scanner scammers get scanned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) More hot water for Suriya & Thaksin: Airports of Thailand Plc filed a complaint with the AEC, accusing deposed premier Thaksin and former transport minister Suriya Jungrungreangkit of involvement in the alleged corrupt procurement of CTX 9000 bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi Airport. AOT president Chotisak Asapaviriya handed the complaint, which linked 22 people to the fraud, to AEC chairman Nam Yimyaem. Chotisak also filed another complaint accusing Suriya and 16 other people of involvement in the irregular bidding for the new airport's power-distribution project. Nam said the AEC would set up two sub-committees to look into the cases next week. - The Nation ================================================================= AEC subcommittee to probe CTX scanners case BANGKOK - The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) is set to empower a sub-committee to probe alleged corruption in the purchase of CTX 9000 bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi airport, a celebrated case in which deposed former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is under suspicion of involvement, according to AEC chairman Nam Yimyaem. Mr. Nam spoke Friday in response to a report that the Airports of Thailand (AoT) board, as a damaged party, will file a complaint against Mr. Thaksin and others implicated in the case. The AEC will meet Monday, Mr. Nam said, and will receive the AoT complaint and set up a sub-inquiry panel to investigate the case. The names of the prospective sub-committee members will be sent to the accused persons, including Mr.Thaksin, to permit them to indicate if they have any objection. Asked if the AEC will summon Mr.Thaksin, now in self-imposed exile abroad, to acknowledge the accusation in person, Mr. Nam said the matter is up to the Council for National Security (CNS) to decide whether to allow the return of the ousted premier or not. "Whether he (Mr.Thaksin) should come back to acknowledge the allegations or to clarify before the panel must be further discussed," he said. Last month the AEC ruled against Mr. Thaksin and 21 others regarding the overpriced purchase of the baggage handling system and the bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi airport. The CTX scanners case is among the 13 alleged large-scale corruption cases the AEC has identified and is trying to prove whether or how the deposed prime minister and his cronies were involved. *and some people keep voicing their wonderment about what's taking so long.... it's a BIG pile of <deleted>... that's why it's taking time to wade through all of it* - MCOT Edited January 12, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Politicians accused of seeking bribes America's FBI report identifies prominent figures in bomb-scanner scandal Graft busters have received a report from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) that identifies prominent politicians who demanded bribes for the procurement of CTX 9000 bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi Airport. "The FBI outlined pertinent negotiations on the CTX deal and revealed the discovery of the US Justice Department to confirm Thai politicians were involved in the bribe demands," a source said. The FBI report was sent to an investigative panel appointed by the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) to uncover culprits in the CTX deal. It is being translated from English and will be used as prosecution evidence. The source said that in spite of the incriminating evidence supplied by the FBI, the panel was not expecting to conclude its report any time soon because of the difficulty in getting testimony from some witnesses. After months of searching, the panel only recently found the address of a Japanese man suspected of acting as a broker for bribes in the deal. The man used to work with a contractor for the airport and was targeted for graft indictments by the AEC. - The Nation ======================================== Good to see the international community is assisting the government with their cases. It will provide the solid evidence needed to have the convictions recognized as just in the eyes of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) AEC panel finds scanner evidence An Assets Examination Committee panel has obtained incriminating evidence that might seal the CTX baggage-scanner case, a source in the panel said yesterday. Important documents, including an audit of GE InVision, the manufacturer, show details on "contribution paid", the source said. The copies were supplied by the US Justice Department in its report on the investigation into the purchase by GE of InVision Technologies, which sold the CTX explosives detectors to Airports of Thailand for Suvarnabhumi Airport. The panel headed by Amnuay Thantara is convinced that the line item specified as "contribution paid" indicates bribery used to grease the deal, the source said, adding that this will be used to indict the suspects. Another panel has invited Thirachai Phuvanart-naranubala, secretary-general of the Securities and Exchange Commission, to testify today over the Shin Corp share sale. He will be asked whether the SEC had ever examined if any laws were violated by the sale and if it knew which kinds of payments Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman used in selling Shin Corp shares to their family members. The panel suspects that the couple did not sell the shares but only used family members to hold them in their names. It also wants to question Thirachai more about the link between the Shin Corp share sale and British Virgin Islands-registered Win Mark. - The Nation ========================================================= The USA's Feds are helping the Thai government to indict Thaksin and his cohorts.... (that's quite telling).... If it comes to pass that he ever gets an extradition order placed around his neck, he might not be able go to his alma mater meetings in the USA. Edited July 12, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well that will put a dent in any argument Thaksin may have about politically motivated. The USA and the UK do have a very cozy relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 TOT plans to sue over Shin deals Former directors and politicians implicated TOT is gearing up to file charges against former members of the Thaksin government and former TOT directors for allegedly breaching private/public joint investment laws and making amendments to telecom concession deals that allegedly favoured Shin Corp. According to an eight-member fact-finding committee appointed by the current TOT board, allegedly unlawful decisions made under the government of deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra cost the state agency over 100 billion baht in predicted earnings. The fact-finding panel, headed by deputy permanent secretary for finance Supha Piyajitti, yesterday said it was preparing to submit its findings to the ASC to take action against those responsible. Among those identified as responsible by the committee were former TOT board members and former cabinet ministers. One of the deals highlighted by the committee was the extension of a concession to AIS, which the panel said resulted in TOT losing 32.34 billion baht in expected revenues. The source said there were seven amendments to the AIS concession which did not comply with investment laws. Another move by the Thaksin administration which the panel claims cost TOT profits was the imposition of excise taxes on telecoms services which the committee predicted would cost TOT 42 billion baht in future revenues. Beyond that, TOT's leasing of Shin Corp's iPSTAR transponders throughout a seven-year contract caused TOT a total loss of 210 million baht, the fact-finding committee claimed.The source said the committee also found that TOT's joint venture with Teleinfo Media, a telephone directory business belonging to Shin Corp, brought further losses of 7.6 billion baht. The panel also found that the Finn-Thai Technology Fund, set up under the Thaksin administration, caused TOT to lose 24 million baht, the source said Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Jul2007_news01.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 That will be a tough case as it is about not getting predicted earnings. I think Thaksin wins on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 Ousted Thai PM 'billionaire no more' OUSTED prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a former telecoms tycoon, has fallen from grace and is no longer counted among Thailand's billionaires since the military froze his assets following last year's coup, Forbes said today. Mr Thaksin, once Thailand's fourth richest business man with a fortune worth $US2.2 billion ($2.54 billion), is now thought to be worth around $US300 million ($346.68 million), the US magazine said. The self-made tycoon “fell from the billionaire perch after facing frozen assets, multi-million dollar fines and other court decisions against his family,” Forbes said. The military, which overthrew Mr Thaksin in a coup in September 2006, froze at least $US1.52 billion ($1.76 billion) of assets belonging to him and his family. Since the coup, Mr Thaksin has remained in exile and now lives in London with his wife, Pojaman. On Tuesday, Thailand's Supreme Court agreed to hear corruption charges against the couple and authorities warned they could issue an arrest warrant if they do not return home. Although Mr Thaksin was no longer a billionaire, he still ranked the 14th richest man in Thailand, Forbes said. Mr Thaksin recently bought Manchester City football club for over $US160 million ($185 million). Forbes said Thailand's wealthiest business man was Chaleo Yoovidhya, who created the formula for the country's hugely popular energy drink called Red Bull. His net worth is $US3.5 billion (over $4 billion). Source: Herald Sun - 14 July 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Assets Probe Panel Holds Meeting on EXIM Bank's Controversial Loan The Assets Examination Committee will decide whether to launch another prosecution against deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra for the controversial loan extended to the Burmese government by a state bank. Lawyers for Thaksin Shinawatra are worried about payments which the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) gives to people who provide testimony. They say they could lead to Thaksin being framed. However, AEC Secretary-general Kaewsan Atipothi says those who gave testimony are not working for the panel and are not involved in the corruption charges which the deposed premier is facing. AEC Spokesman Sak Korsaengrueng says the panel is unable to disclose the list of people who gave it details concerning asset transfers by the deposed premier's family. The AEC's assembly will decide whether to launch an indictment against Thaksin for taking part in a Cabinet decision to approve a loan by the Export Import Bank to Burma. At the same time, the AEC is likely to issue its eighth order to freeze the assets of the Shinawatra family, after its sub-committee examining asset transfers discovered Thaksin failed to stop transferring his assets as the panel requested. - Thailand Outlook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 AEC to file 30 Billion Baht Lawsuit Against Ex-ministers Alleged in Authorizing 2-3 Digit Lotteries The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) has decided to to file a Bt30 billion civil lawsuit against ex-ministers and state officials involved in the authorization of the two- and three-digit or on-ground lotteries. Chairman of the AEC’s subcommittee scrutinizing the two- and three-digit lotteries, Udom Fuangfung, revealed that the subcommittee has contacted the defendants, including deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to acknowledge their charges. Some of them have provided information concerning the lottery distribution. The defendants are categorized into two groups, including 32 former ministers of the Thaksin administration and 17 officials of the Government Lottery Office. - ThaiNews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Politicians accused of seeking bribesAmerica's FBI report identifies prominent figures in bomb-scanner scandal Graft busters have received a report from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) that identifies prominent politicians who demanded bribes for the procurement of CTX 9000 bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi Airport. "The FBI outlined pertinent negotiations on the CTX deal and revealed the discovery of the US Justice Department to confirm Thai politicians were involved in the bribe demands," a source said. The FBI report was sent to an investigative panel appointed by the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) to uncover culprits in the CTX deal. It is being translated from English and will be used as prosecution evidence. The source said that in spite of the incriminating evidence supplied by the FBI, the panel was not expecting to conclude its report any time soon because of the difficulty in getting testimony from some witnesses. After months of searching, the panel only recently found the address of a Japanese man suspected of acting as a broker for bribes in the deal. The man used to work with a contractor for the airport and was targeted for graft indictments by the AEC. - The Nation ======================================== Good to see the international community is assisting the government with their cases. It will provide the solid evidence needed to have the convictions recognized as just in the eyes of the world. Yes, the USA has a very long history of supporting right-wing military juntas and this case looks no different. As far as the world seeing this complicity as "just", well some do and many don't. Many folks, realizing that the AEC is a charade appointed by the goons behind a military destruction of the democratic process, await prosecution of the junta and a fair election before proceeding with any justice of past elected administrations. Fair enough, there are many junta-lovers as well; not everyone agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I hope I am reading what you are saying correctly; The USA involvement with the scanners is universally serving. The scanners themselves protect all air travelers including American citizens. I feel if there is any issue with security including corruption, it is the best interest for everyone to deal with it. I don’t see it as political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thaksin's lawyers oppose extension of term for AEC Lawyers for deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday opposed the extension of the Assets Exami-nation Committee's term of office to June next year. Published on July 30, 2007 Vichit Plangsrisakul called on committee members who had earlier opposed the term extension to resign for backtracking. He said committee members Klanarong Chantik, Kaewsan Atibodhi, Amnuay Thantara and Viroj Laohapan should quit. He accused them of saying the committee was an ad hoc body and the National Counter Corruption Commission could assume its responsibilities when it was disbanded. Kaewsan defended accusations members now wanted to "cling to power" saying they simply wanted to complete their work. Although the commission can assume the committee's case load, the National Legislative Assembly believes it will have to start each matter from scratch. Committee sub-panel chairman Udom Fuangfung said investigations into the two- and three-digit lottery scheme would be completed by September. The panel will summon former Thaksin cabinet members to hear charges between August 8 and August 17. Prakiat Nasimma and Vichit denied Thaksin lawyers were is dispute with legal adviser Noppadon Pattama, saying both would continue as spokesmen for the ousted leader's lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Lawyers for Thaksin Shinawatra are worried about payments which the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) gives to people who provide testimony. They say they could lead to Thaksin being framed. payments for testimony ?? I'll bite , <deleted> ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Lawyers for Thaksin Shinawatra are worried about payments which the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) gives to people who provide testimony. They say they could lead to Thaksin being framed. payments for testimony ?? I'll bite , <deleted> ???? I was waiting for you to catch that. Just another ambagious suggestions designed to delay on Thaksin’s part. Everyone knows it’s Leprechauns and bridge trolls on holiday in Thailand handing out the bribe money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 no smoke without fire , would the expectation of a deformation suite from the AEC , pronto like , unless ...................... be out of order ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 no smoke without fire ,would the expectation of a deformation suite from the AEC , pronto like , unless ...................... be out of order ?? Good question but I think the answer is no. Thaksin is out of the country and I am not sure he can be held to Thai laws of this nature. The statement is too vague much like Newt Gingrich had a habit of doing. It is more to stir the pot that he is displease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Lawyers for Thaksin Shinawatra one expects these gentlemen are in the country ................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Yes I though to that but they could just be passing along one of thaksin’s lies. Noppadon does it nearly daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 DSI extends Thaksin hearing deadline to August 17 Wednesday 1 August 2007 04:50:45 PM (GMT+7:00) BANGKOK, Aug 1 (TNA) - Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) Wednesday extended the deadline for the last time for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, his wife Pojaman and three other defendants who were senior executives of SC Asset Corp. to report for a hearing on August 17, according to the DSI chief. snip MCOT Public Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Thaksin's wife to file damage lawsuit BANGKOK, Aug 2 (TNA) - Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, wife of former prime minister Thaksin, will file a civil lawsuit Friday against the Assets Examination Committee, seeking Bt50 billion in compensatory damages from the probe panel, said Noppadol Pattama, legal advisor to the Shinawatra family. snip MCOT Public Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 That is one stupid selfserving cow. Guess the AEC could up their initial request of 30 billion to 80 billion then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 It would be interesting to see a list of all the lawsuits they have thrown in the last few years along with the total amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Lawyers for Thaksin Shinawatra one expects these gentlemen are in the country ................................. gentleman n. 1 man (in polite or formal use). 2 chivalrous well-bred man. 3 man of good social position (country gentleman). 4 man of gentle birth attached to a royal household marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Thaksin's wife to file damage lawsuit BANGKOK, Aug 2 (TNA) - Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, wife of former prime minister Thaksin, will file a civil lawsuit Friday against the Assets Examination Committee, seeking Bt50 billion in compensatory damages from the probe panel, said Noppadol Pattama, legal advisor to the Shinawatra family. snip MCOT Public Company Limited You know all it would take is one change in the laws saying the plaintiff needs to be in court on the days of the proceedings and all of this will simply go away. If the plaintiff can’s see to be there while inconveniencing the defendant the case should be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Thaksin to face charges over Burma telecom deal The Assets Examination Committee yesterday authorised its subcommittee to indict ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra for alleged graft and abuse of power relating to the government-sanctioned lending to Burma in 2004. "The AEC also ordered additional investigation to try and uncover any ill-gotten gains Thaksin might have amassed in connection with the Bt4-billion Exim Bank loans for Burma to conclude a satellite telecom deal," AEC spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said. At Thaksin's intervention, the Export-Import Bank of Thailand was ordered to increase its credit line for Burma from Bt3 billion. The loans were extended to finance the deal with Shin Satellite, which was then under the control of Thaksin's family. Based on the correspondence between Thaksin and the Foreign Affairs Ministry, he initially wanted the bank to finance Bt5 billion for the deal but agreed for a reduction of Bt1 billion after strong opposition from then foreign minister Surakiart Sathirathai. In a related development, the AEC activated the process to issue four arrest warrants - against Thaksin's wife Pojaman, their son Panthongtae, her private secretary Kanchanapa Honghern, and her sister-in-law Busaba Damapong. The four refused to comply with their summonses to testify about the 2006 sale of Shin Corp. Meanwhile, the Department of Special Investigations (DSI) director-general, Sunai Manomai-udom, said yesterday former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and others would be summoned on August 17 to hear charges in relation to the SC Asset shareholders concealment case. "It will be the last chance for the group to appear before they face arrest," he said. The accused include Thaksin's wife Pojaman, Thaksin's sister Yingluck, Busaba Damapong and Pensom Damapong. Sunai said the DSI's report on the case was 90 per cent complete. It is confident that the court will order penalties for the accused, especially if they do not turn up to answer the charges. "The DSI has analysed the information but Thaksin is unlikely to come as summoned. But we will give him another chance. Busaba and Pensom's lawyer said they would appear if postponement is denied. They might give us useful information so we don't have any reason to arrest them," he said. Sunai said investigators would grant bail to those who report as summoned. But those who do not, and become liable to be arrested, will not get bail as they will have demonstrated contempt and willingness to evade the law. Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said Thaksin would return to face trial only after the election. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) Thaksin to face charges over Burma telecom dealThe Assets Examination Committee yesterday authorised its subcommittee to indict ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra for alleged graft and abuse of power relating to the government-sanctioned lending to Burma in 2004. "The AEC also ordered additional investigation to try and uncover any ill-gotten gains Thaksin might have amassed in connection with the Bt4-billion Exim Bank loans for Burma to conclude a satellite telecom deal," AEC spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said. At Thaksin's intervention, the Export-Import Bank of Thailand was ordered to increase its credit line for Burma from Bt3 billion. The loans were extended to finance the deal with Shin Satellite, which was then under the control of Thaksin's family. Based on the correspondence between Thaksin and the Foreign Affairs Ministry, he initially wanted the bank to finance Bt5 billion for the deal but agreed for a reduction of Bt1 billion after strong opposition from then foreign minister Surakiart Sathirathai. In a related development, the AEC activated the process to issue four arrest warrants - against Thaksin's wife Pojaman, their son Panthongtae, her private secretary Kanchanapa Honghern, and her sister-in-law Busaba Damapong. The four refused to comply with their summonses to testify about the 2006 sale of Shin Corp. Meanwhile, the Department of Special Investigations (DSI) director-general, Sunai Manomai-udom, said yesterday former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and others would be summoned on August 17 to hear charges in relation to the SC Asset shareholders concealment case. "It will be the last chance for the group to appear before they face arrest," he said. The accused include Thaksin's wife Pojaman, Thaksin's sister Yingluck, Busaba Damapong and Pensom Damapong. Sunai said the DSI's report on the case was 90 per cent complete. It is confident that the court will order penalties for the accused, especially if they do not turn up to answer the charges. "The DSI has analysed the information but Thaksin is unlikely to come as summoned. But we will give him another chance. Busaba and Pensom's lawyer said they would appear if postponement is denied. They might give us useful information so we don't have any reason to arrest them," he said. Sunai said investigators would grant bail to those who report as summoned. But those who do not, and become liable to be arrested, will not get bail as they will have demonstrated contempt and willingness to evade the law. Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said Thaksin would return to face trial only after the election. - The Nation Thanks for this update S.J. I would like to think that the U.K. government will now start to show some concern about the financing and self rewarding loans that he secured to fund his family Shin Corp business and possible use of the profits / self rewarding back handers for a certain U.K. project. ??????? Even if at the present time they do not seem to have a desire to pursue other important H.R. issues, Burma is an ongoing investigation in general terms relating to foreign exploitation and colluding with the military regime there. They have a special commons committee already set up for this so let,s see just how serious they are in exposing such actions and taking steps to punish the offenders. H.T.F this is seemingly more important than the EJK,s is beyond belief and IMHO obscenely hypocritical All H.R,s issues of these instances where human life is Abused / Exterminated collaterally warrant immediate and urgent attention. All these dictators, including Thaksin, must be pursued vigorously until they are brought to account ESPECIALLY as and when there is sufficient evidence to convict them of such offences. marshbags Edited August 5, 2007 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Thaksin to face charges over Burma telecom deal Can't blame this one on your children can't ya?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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