The 30+30(+30) Year Lease (final) Discussion

[Khun Jean]

As a long time reader and sometimes poster, "user" of land owned by my wife i find it amazing how many times this "30+30+30 years lease" is mentioned.

Even more amazing is that people seem to get these leases. If you are wel informed you will NEVER do this as it is not guaranteed.

My intention for this thread (Thread is a big word, this post should be enough) is to

END this SCAM!

So please don't try to defend this "30+30+30 years lease", you will only make a fool of yourself. On second thought, yes defend it, then at least we know you are talking BS and all the rest you say can be ignored.

First things first, the lease itself:

Be sure the land title is "Nor Sor Sam", "Nor Sor Sam Gor" or "Chanote". All other lower titles can not register a lease.

Make sure you register the lease! Otherwise it is only enforceable for a maximum of 3 years.

If the land is sold to a new owner the lease is transfered with all the rights for the one who leases. (There is a catch!)

So far so good.

Time for some negatives.

We have to make a distinction between "real lease rights" and "non lease rights".

NEGATIVE NUMBER 1.

--------------------------

A renewal clause is a "non lease right"!

This means that when the land is sold to another this renewal "right" is lost.

An example to make it more clear for the people who are doubtfull.

You lease land for 30 years and make an extra clause for a renewal. In this clause you might mention the new lease amount, up to you.

After about 20 years the owner dies. The land is now his daughters. His daughter at the end of your lease decides that it is in her best interest to not renew your lease and request you to please remove all buildings and other items within one month.

Oke another example where the owner not dies, just to be fair. First make sure the owner you lease it from is healthy and will probably live for at least 30 years.

After 30 years minus 1 week the owner starts to think about this stupid lease he signed. His land was very difficult to sell all this time it was occupied. This 'farang with his new girlfriend' that visited last week was really interested in the land. He offered 50 million cash. How to get rid of this 'renewal'. Better call a lawyer. This lawyer says, "no problem, just transfer the land to your daughter". Ah yes. The owner can sleep good again and dreams of his 50 million in the bank, and a mercedes in front of his new house.

There are so many possible scenarios to get out of this renewal right i think that the 2 easiest are enough.

NEGATIVE NUMBER 2!

-------------------------

You HAVE TO PAY RENT!

This means the money you paid when you signed this lease is for 30 years! Remember that is the maximum!

After 30 years if you are able to get a renewal you will HAVE TO PAY AGAIN!. And be sure it is a lot more than the first time. Count on at least 3 times as much, but prepare for 10 times or even 50 times.

The good thing is you will not have to worry about this "negative number 2", "negative number 1" takes care of that.

But just to make it clear it is not only a negative when it is renewal time.

If you GIVE the money to buy the land to your girl/boy friend or wife/husband so you can have a lease, you also HAVE TO pay rent.

And it should be at least the amount the landoffice valuates it for. So pay the fees, and the tax. But also to be fair, this si probably not a very high amount, but it should be calculated before you decide to buy the land.

There are more negatives, but would you decide to get this lease construction after reading the first 2!

If you are satisfied with a 30 year lease, go for it. It is as secure as it gets. But there are also negatives with this scenario. These are not 'risks' that you have with the law. But to not be to negatieve lets call them warnings.

WARNING NUMBER 1!

-------------------------

You get fed up with the place. Consider your money gone. (The case when you not happily married but just lease from stranger (developer))

WARNING NUMBER 2!

-------------------------

The relationships is not what it used to be. You decide for a divorce. You leased the land so you dont need to go. But first pay the ex-partner 50% of the value of the house.

WARNING NUMBER 3!

--------------------------------

'she is NOT different!' (Oke just joking!!!)

WARNING NUMBER 4-1000!

-------------------------------

Read everything on this website. (And that is not a joke!!)

A good law reference is www.samuiforsale.com. Required reading!

As some other poster mentioned and asked. Yes it is the 'BIBLE on LANDOWNERSHIP for foreigners'.

There is some hope, saty tuned for another topic soon.

What do you think? Should this be pinned?

[lingnoi34]

Well said....

LN

[Mobi]

Excellent post Khun Jean. This should be required reading for all those thinking of getting into a 30 + 30.

May I add another example to "negative number 1."

The owner wants you out at the end of 30 years and refuses to renew the lease. He doesn't transfer the land, but just gives you notice to quit. He might not want to do this to avoid fees and tax.

You have to go, and your only recourse is to sue him in the courts, which could be a long protracted affair, and if successful you will only get financial recompense of some sort, if at all. But you will not get your house back.

Correct me if the above is incorrect.

[quiksilva]

Yes a landlord can decide not to renew your lease.

In the UK the grounds on which a renewal can be declined are set out in legislation (LL&T act 1954) (as are the notices to quit) but insofar as I am aware Thailand does not have an equivalent law, so the terms of renewal must be defined in the contract or it will be left to mutual agreement.

[ProThaiExpat]

quicksilva's point is controlling in my view, since the renewal term must have additional "consideration" (usually money) to make it a binding contract in the future, it is extremely unlikely a landlord would agree in advance to how much "consideration" he would require to support the new lease. Even if he agreed to that element, you would still have to agree on the rent to be paid during the renewal term and who would agree to a rent figure 30 years before it becomes operable.

An "agreement to agree" is by its very nature very speculative as the landlord may not agree to anything. Yes, a "reasonable" renewal rent can be specified as a pre-condition but who is to determine what is "reasonable".

While there has been much posting that a renewal provision in a lease dies with the landlord, I don't see how that makes sense since the lease contract is a recorded "burden" on the property and flows with the property. Thus a legatee would inherit the property with all of its burdens, including lease provisions and renewal provisions.

[ProThaiExpat]

While my foregoing post makes perfect sense in interpreting common law property rights and Thailand does to some degree copy common law property rights, it does vary to some degree and apparently does infuse some Civil Code Law into their systems.

Thai property code law specifies 30 years as the maximum length leasehold rights can be enforced so attempting to make enforceable extensions of the maximum 30 years by renewal terms doesn't work and evidently the Thai Supreme Court has made a convenient distiction to serve its purposes.

It has declared that there are personal rights in a lease, as well as leasehold rights, and contractual leasehold provisions that exceed 30 years are personal rights and do not pass with the property or leasehold obligations upon death or transfer.

See generally www.samuiforsale.com/article_72.htm.

[Tony121]

if you try to renew a lease at the end of it's term you are going to have to pay alot of money in europe as well, in England most apartments come with 99yr leases but when a lease get's below 60 years banks don't want to lend you money, if you try to renew you lease after 15 years instead of thirty at least you stand some chance of getting it renewed what do you think ?

[jitagon]

A couple I know signed and payed for a 30 year lease a year ago, and have subsequently split up (both farang) and want to sell the land.

First problem (never mind that it is only leasehold ...) is that the lady told me that when they were at the Land Registration Office, the owner (also a farang), 'forgot' to sign the addendum stipulating that the lease would be renewable for another thirty years. The owner is now 'unavailable', (having offered to purchase the land back at a considerable discount ...). What can these people do? Anything?

By the way, I agree that these so called renewable leases are a scam, but in the case of this couple, without the (at least) psychological barrier of the lease being able to be renewed, would have thought any resale extremely difficult.

[Mobi]

I think you will find that anyoption to renew contained in a 30 year lease will not be noted on the land title deed (Chanod).

It's not a case of someone 'forgetting' - it would never be recorded, as it is a "personal" matter between leasor and leasee.

So there would never be any problem in selling the land, either during, or after the 30 years has expired, regardless of what effectively is a 'side deal' on an option to renew. It just isn't enforceable.

[johnnyk]

And don't forget that most people wanting to sign a lease are age 50+ (retirement visas not available under age 50 is one reason).

So you are 53 and sign a 30-yr lease. But at age 83 you could be tossed out on your tailbone. Not funny.

Oh yes, you can go to court... in Thailand at age 83? Not funny twice.

By all means lease for 30 years, just make sure you understand that 30 is 30 and not 60 or 90.

[ProThaiExpat]

As I have previously posted, my lease does have a usurfuct proviso n (life estate) but the likelyhood that I will outlive my 30 year lease is extremely remote.

For those who are under 70 and are worried about outliving a lease, a usurfuct for life is clearly the answeer. See the web site in my prior post for details about a usurfuct.

[Mobi]

As I have previously posted, my lease does have a usurfuct proviso n (life estate) but the likelyhood that I will outlive my 30 year lease is extremely remote.

For those who are under 70 and are worried about outliving a lease, a usurfuct for life is clearly the answeer. See the web site in my prior post for details about a usurfuct.

Yes, that's exactly what I did. The usufruct is registered on the Chanod, and is probably as safe as you're going to get.

I wouldn't want to put it to the test, but I am told that if I could lease my land out for 30 years, just before I died, and the lease would still be valid.

I guess usufructs are not much use to land developers and the like, which is why they try to push the 30 +30.

[jitagon]

I think you will find that anyoption to renew contained in a 30 year lease will not be noted on the land title deed (Chanod).

It's not a case of someone 'forgetting' - it would never be recorded, as it is a "personal" matter between leasor and leasee.

So there would never be any problem in selling the land, either during, or after the 30 years has expired, regardless of what effectively is a 'side deal' on an option to renew. It just isn't enforceable.

I did not state in my post that any option to renew was forgotten to be recorded on the Chanote. I know nothing other than the relevant parties' names can be recorded on a Land Title Deed. I stated that I had been told that the parties' 'addendum' (for the unaware, a note signed and certified and attached to a legal document, usually a Will in the UK and legally enforceable) had, apparently, been 'forgotten' to be signed by the owner of the land.

If, as you say, any such addendum is not recognised in Thai Law, at the Land Registry, anyway, then the lessees have clearly been duped. Does anyone else have knowledge of addendums being registered at the Land Registry, or, are all agreements (side deals) purely verbal? (although I doubt this is the case if the lessee and lessor do not speak the same language!).

I had already advised (repeatedly) the couple in question, that any such addendum would be unenforceable here, but alas, they refused to listen. Look, I'm reading my posts and am forever at a loss as to how downright bloody stupid some of the farang coming here show themselves to be. But they're a nice couple and I'd like to assist, if I can. Thankyou.

[ThaiLawOnline]

I agree with Khun Jean. I will add "a declaration of intention", after the lease is done, according to articles 154 and following of the civil code.

Sections 168 and 169 of the CCCT state: "A declaration of intention made to a person in his presence takes affect from the time when it becomes known to the receiver of the intention. (..blablabla)" 169. (blablabla) Even though the person who made a declaration of intention dies, becomes incompetent or quasi-incompetent by an order of the Court after it has been sent, the validity of the declaration is not impaired thereby."

If the heirs of the owner of the land do not renew the lease, depending how the lease is written, and if a declaration of intention has been done, many Thai lawyers believe that heirs will HAVE TO renew the lease or they could be liable. Personnally, I don't know. Declarations of intention are different or do not exist under the civil law I studied.

The reasons mentionned by Khun Jean are why most people married with a Thai person should take a usufruct instead of a lease.

[Khun Jean]

I stated that I had been told that the parties' 'addendum' (for the unaware, a note signed and certified and attached to a legal document, usually a Will in the UK and legally enforceable) had, apparently, been 'forgotten' to be signed by the owner of the land.

It is very clear. It is not signed by both parties. No need to explain the rest.

They can only rely on the good nature of the landowner.

It is another example of how things can go wrong.

Be very aware! (Was it intentionaly that he 'forgot' to sign? Maybe not!)

[happylarry]

Having just read the very interesting information on www.samuiforsale.com I would like to point out that it states that the usufruct gives the foreigner protection in the event of the spouses demise, but in the case of a divorce then the spouse can simply have the usufruct voided or cancelled if it was entered into during the marriage.

I guess that is still the way to go providing you trust the spouse.

Be happy...Larry

[Mobi]

Having just read the very interesting information on www.samuiforsale.com I would like to point out that it states that the usufruct gives the foreigner protection in the event of the spouses demise, but in the case of a divorce then the spouse can simply have the usufruct voided or cancelled if it was entered into during the marriage.

I guess that is still the way to go providing you trust the spouse.

Be happy...Larry

While anything is possible, and I fully realise that my usufruct may be at risk should I divorce, I have been assured by two eminent lawyers, one from a top international law firm, and the other a respected specialist in this market that the usufruct will hold good until I die, whatever the circumstances.

I believe the trick is to make sure the wife signs a separate, witnessed document the effect that she is entering into the arrangement of her own free will, etc and that she freely grants the usufruct to her husband in perpetuity etc etc. which was done in my case.

As I said, I'm not necessarily relying on it, but I believe that your quoted statement (which I can't find incidentally) is incorrect.

In fact, I originally wanted to just do 30 year lease, but I was assured that the usufruct would be a much better way to go, which tends to confirm that it cannot be voided by divorce.

[jitagon]

I stated that I had been told that the parties' 'addendum' (for the unaware, a note signed and certified and attached to a legal document, usually a Will in the UK and legally enforceable) had, apparently, been 'forgotten' to be signed by the owner of the land.

It is very clear. It is not signed by both parties. No need to explain the rest.

They can only rely on the good nature of the landowner.

It is another example of how things can go wrong.

Be very aware! (Was it intentionaly that he 'forgot' to sign? Maybe not!)

Bearing in mind that the landowner then offered to buy the land back at a considerable discount, I would think he was simply taking advantage of the fact that the addendum was not signed, whether he 'forgot' to or not.

However, these 30 year leases are advertised as 30+30+30 all over the place, and I would be interested to learn just how this is usually drawn up, I would have thought even the most gullible farang, and it is always farang as Thais of course wouldn't rent a piece of land for only thirty years for the same price they could actually buy it, are persuaded that they will be able to renew should they still be living at the expiration of the thirty year period.

Can anyone tell me what document is usually held with the Lease to put said gullible farang's mind at ease enough to part with the cash? And is it so that such documentation (an addendum, whatever, notwithstanding the fact that is unenforceable) cannot, in Thai law, actually be registered at the Land Office with the Lease?

And for those of you who think that a thirty year lease will be sufficient and see you out, I recently met an 86 year old man (looked very good health early sixties) who was just popping over to the UK to see his 104 year old father who still lives independently! He could have signed one of these leases when he was 74 and now be homeless!

[donx]

Having just read the very interesting information on www.samuiforsale.com I would like to point out that it states that the usufruct gives the foreigner protection in the event of the spouses demise, but in the case of a divorce then the spouse can simply have the usufruct voided or cancelled if it was entered into during the marriage.

I guess that is still the way to go providing you trust the spouse.

Be happy...Larry

While anything is possible, and I fully realise that my usufruct may be at risk should I divorce, I have been assured by two eminent lawyers, one from a top international law firm, and the other a respected specialist in this market that the usufruct will hold good until I die, whatever the circumstances.

I believe the trick is to make sure the wife signs a separate, witnessed document the effect that she is entering into the arrangement of her own free will, etc and that she freely grants the usufruct to her husband in perpetuity etc etc. which was done in my case.

As I said, I'm not necessarily relying on it, but I believe that your quoted statement (which I can't find incidentally) is incorrect.

In fact, I originally wanted to just do 30 year lease, but I was assured that the usufruct would be a much better way to go, which tends to confirm that it cannot be voided by divorce.

I agree with happylarry. I too have read that according to Thai law, any contract or agreements made between spouses can be disolved at any time by either spouse without any penalties. Thus it is my understanding that the usufruct only protects you against your spouse's family if she were to die before you.

I also believe this applies to rental contracts as well.

[happylarry]

I find that tip very interesting Mobi, as I am going to instigate a usufruct this week, so thanks for that.

If you look at the following link and go to page 4...the usufruct section (second last section)....Last sentence of the second paragraph.

"However, again, in case of a divorce the foreign spouse is not fully protected, as there is the possibility the usufruct (as a lease) could be voided or cancelled by the Thai spouse if entered into during marriage (section 1469 Civil and Commercial Code)."

http://www.samuiforsale.com/Sale%20and%20Purchase.htm#Other

Mobi, due to the advise that you were given by your lawyers, I would be interested to know your comments after checking out the above.

I promise you I am not trying to undermine your good self or prove you wrong, I am simply trying to find out as much as possible because as I said I am going to start one on Thursday.

Be happy...Larry

[donx]

I find that tip very interesting Mobi, as I am going to instigate a usufruct this week, so thanks for that.

If you look at the following link and go to page 4...the usufruct section (second last section)....Last sentence of the second paragraph.

"However, again, in case of a divorce the foreign spouse is not fully protected, as there is the possibility the usufruct (as a lease) could be voided or cancelled by the Thai spouse if entered into during marriage (section 1469 Civil and Commercial Code)."

http://www.samuiforsale.com/Sale%20and%20Purchase.htm#Other

Mobi, due to the advise that you were given by your lawyers, I would be interested to know your comments after checking out the above.

I promise you I am not trying to undermine your good self or prove you wrong, I am simply trying to find out as much as possible because as I said I am going to start one on Thursday.

Be happy...Larry

After reading that link it sounds like the best protection would be to get a third person involved. "Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

- quote from www.samuiforsale.com

For example establish the usufruct and in turn provide another person with a 30 year lease from the farang spouse. I don't know if that would be allowed.

[Mobi]

I find that tip very interesting Mobi, as I am going to instigate a usufruct this week, so thanks for that.

If you look at the following link and go to page 4...the usufruct section (second last section)....Last sentence of the second paragraph.

"However, again, in case of a divorce the foreign spouse is not fully protected, as there is the possibility the usufruct (as a lease) could be voided or cancelled by the Thai spouse if entered into during marriage (section 1469 Civil and Commercial Code)."

http://www.samuiforsale.com/Sale%20and%20Purchase.htm#Other

Mobi, due to the advise that you were given by your lawyers, I would be interested to know your comments after checking out the above.

I promise you I am not trying to undermine your good self or prove you wrong, I am simply trying to find out as much as possible because as I said I am going to start one on Thursday.

Be happy...Larry

Larry,

All I can say is that it was the very point concerning a possible future divorce that I was eager to have clarified, and I was assured by a prominent legal sponsor of Thai Visa, and confirmed by a major Bangkok law firm, that the usufruct could not be voided in the event of divorce. I believe the additional document that my wife signed (it was explained to me but not translated) was further "protection" against this happening. I was also told that this has been tested in the courts.

Right now, I am where I am, and I have done the best I can do based on legal advice. I am not worrying about it, and hopefully will never have to put it to the test, and if I did, I believe that she and I would come to an amicable settlement.

And if it is voidable - then whatever happens, don't agree to a divorce.

[quiksilva]

I stated that I had been told that the parties' 'addendum' (for the unaware, a note signed and certified and attached to a legal document, usually a Will in the UK and legally enforceable) had, apparently, been 'forgotten' to be signed by the owner of the land.

It is very clear. It is not signed by both parties. No need to explain the rest.

They can only rely on the good nature of the landowner.

It is another example of how things can go wrong.

Be very aware! (Was it intentionaly that he 'forgot' to sign? Maybe not!)

Bearing in mind that the landowner then offered to buy the land back at a considerable discount, I would think he was simply taking advantage of the fact that the addendum was not signed, whether he 'forgot' to or not.

However, these 30 year leases are advertised as 30+30+30 all over the place, and I would be interested to learn just how this is usually drawn up, I would have thought even the most gullible farang, and it is always farang as Thais of course wouldn't rent a piece of land for only thirty years for the same price they could actually buy it, are persuaded that they will be able to renew should they still be living at the expiration of the thirty year period.

Can anyone tell me what document is usually held with the Lease to put said gullible farang's mind at ease enough to part with the cash? And is it so that such documentation (an addendum, whatever, notwithstanding the fact that is unenforceable) cannot, in Thai law, actually be registered at the Land Office with the Lease?

There can be successive options to renew included in the lease (or you can just have it drafted so that once renewed all terms start afresh again) but as the law stands, options to renew are simply not binding.

If possible try to get hold of the actual Chanode. You can't do much with it, but it can make selling the property more difficult.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

HappyLarry:

I feel you have done a lot of research on this and I wonder who you are useing to put your lease together? We will be entering into one next month. My wife and I are both farangs so have somewhat different problems to work out. We entered into a purchase agreement on Palm Hills golf course in a new development there. It is called Palm Village and is nicely laid out. We initally were purchasing it to build a house on but with the hassel on companies owning land and a lot of problems with builders we chickened out and bought a Condo in Cha Am that we are very pleased with.

Anyhow to shorten this up a bit we are still purchaseing the land but need to put it into a lease. We have a very good Thai friend that is happy to do this for us and let us design the agreement and lease any way we want to. We need someone to put the lease together so we can sell the land or the lease.

Letting our Thai friend use the lifetime golf membership until it is sold. Do you know anyone that can handle this for us at less than the cost of the land?

Thanks

BEENTHERE

[HDRIDER]

HI

I have a 30 years lease on my house, happy with that it is cheap rent for 30 years, just rented the place out for 20.000 a month, i am happy, and believe me in 30 years time i dont give a <deleted> whats going on, any seen a 30 years old house in Thailand??? there you go.

[happylarry]

Hi BeenThereDoneThat

I came to retire in Thailand in 2004 and went the company way and built a gorgeous house. However I have been trying to sell it now for more than 2 years to no avail. My Thai wife owns 3 rye of land in Isaan and we have decided to move up there and build on it, BUT as a large chunk of my finances is tied up in the Samui house I do need to be extra careful to protect any future investments.

So, yes I have been trying do a bit of research into this and that, but so far only on my own and thai visa of course. Anyway on Thursday I have an appointment with a Solicitor in Korat (Isaan) where I intend to learn a lot more and start the ball rolling. If you like I will let you know my impression of the Solicitor after I have met him, I could even ask his opinion of your plan, if you would like.

Hi Mobi

Hear and understand mate, it might be the same man I am going to talk to. Anyway I like your last sentence, but I also cant ever see my wonderful marriage coming to that, but of course we never know what is round the corner. As they say "Love is blind".

Be happy...Larry

[churchill]

I stated that I had been told that the parties' 'addendum' (for the unaware, a note signed and certified and attached to a legal document, usually a Will in the UK and legally enforceable) had, apparently, been 'forgotten' to be signed by the owner of the land.

It is very clear. It is not signed by both parties. No need to explain the rest.

They can only rely on the good nature of the landowner.

It is another example of how things can go wrong.

Be very aware! (Was it intentionaly that he 'forgot' to sign? Maybe not!)

Bearing in mind that the landowner then offered to buy the land back at a considerable discount, I would think he was simply taking advantage of the fact that the addendum was not signed, whether he 'forgot' to or not.

However, these 30 year leases are advertised as 30+30+30 all over the place, and I would be interested to learn just how this is usually drawn up, I would have thought even the most gullible farang, and it is always farang as Thais of course wouldn't rent a piece of land for only thirty years for the same price they could actually buy it, are persuaded that they will be able to renew should they still be living at the expiration of the thirty year period.

Can anyone tell me what document is usually held with the Lease to put said gullible farang's mind at ease enough to part with the cash? And is it so that such documentation (an addendum, whatever, notwithstanding the fact that is unenforceable) cannot, in Thai law, actually be registered at the Land Office with the Lease?

And for those of you who think that a thirty year lease will be sufficient and see you out, I recently met an 86 year old man (looked very good health early sixties) who was just popping over to the UK to see his 104 year old father who still lives independently! He could have signed one of these leases when he was 74 and now be homeless!

A sample contract extract - This was for a friend who was thinking of buying -

3. Lease Term

3.1 The term of the lease shall be a period of 30 (thirty) years or the maximum period as permitted by law (the “Lease Term”) commencing from the date that the Lessor has completed the registration of this lease to the Lessee in accordance with Clause 4. herein.

3.2 The Lessor irrevocably and unconditionally represents and warrants that the Lessee shall, subject to the Lessee´s payment of the Rental as set out in Clause 3.5 and Clause 5. herein, have an absolute right after the expiration of the Lease Term to lease this Leased land for a further period of 30 (thirty) years or the maximum period as permitted by law for the time being by serving a notice of intention to renew in writing on the Lessor at least 90 (ninety) days prior to the expiration of the Lease Term. All terms and conditions of this Agreement shall automatically apply to the renewed lease save for this renewal clause.

3.3 Subject to the serving of the Lessee´s notice in accordance with Clause 3.2, the Lessor shall let to and the Lessee shall lease from the Lessor the Leased land for a further term of 30 (thirty) years or the maximum period as permitted by law on the same terms and conditions as contained in this Agreement.

3.4 In addition to the right to make the first renewal of the lease under Clause 3.2, the Lessee shall be entitled to the second option to renew the lease for a final period of 30 (thirty) years or the maximum period as permitted by law for the time being by serving a notice in writing on the Lessor at least 90 (ninety) days prior to the expiration of the renewed lease period under Clause 3.2. Clause 3.3 shall also apply to the second renewal of lease under this Clause 3.4.

3.5 The renewal of the Lease Term under Clauses 3.2 and Clause 3.4 both parties agree to make a Lease Agreement with the term of thirty (30) years each, whereas the terms and conditions of the first lease shall be used for the new Agreement except the part of rent. It is agreed that the rent shall be One Million Eight Hundred Thousand (******* THB) Thai Baht only to cover thirty (30) years of lease for this Agreement.

3.6 Other than the first and second lease renewals specified in Clauses 3.2 and Clause 3.4, no further lease renewal shall be allowed unless the renewal is made in accordance with the terms to be agreed by the Lessor in its absolute discretion.

3.7 All ongoing annual property, land usage and lease taxes pertaining to the Leased land as a whole and the individual properties and all taxes duties and fees and all expenses incurred in relation to the registration of the Lease shall be borne solely by the Lessee.

All taxes duties and fees including but not limited to any and all expenses incurred in relation to the registration of the renewals of the lease shall be borne solely by the Lessee.

3.8 During the Lease Term under Clause 3.1 and the renewed lease term under Clauses 3.2 and 3.4, if the registration of the lease of the Leased land is permitted by relevant law for a period longer than 30 (thirty) years, the Lessor and the Lessee shall, within a reasonable period, proceed with the new registration of the lease of the Leased land in order to reflect the longer period. The Lessee shall be responsible for all taxes, duties, fees and expenses incurred in connection with the new registration of the lease of the Leased land.

4. Registration

4.1 The Lessor shall complete the registration of the lease of the Leased land with the responsible Land Department within thirty (30) days upon the Lessor having received the Rental (as defined below) in full amount as outlined and in accordance with Clause 5.1 hereunder. The Lessor shall notify the date of the registration of the lease of the Leased land to the Lessee not less than fifteen (15) days in advance. The Lessee shall attend or appoint his representative to attend and execute the registration of the lease of the Leased land with the responsible Land Department. If the Lessee or his representative, for whatsoever reason, cannot attend and execute the lease of the Leased land, the Lessee shall notify the Lessor of that reason, in writing, at least ten (10) working days prior to the registration date and the parties shall mutually determine a new registration date.

4.2 It shall be deemed that possession is handed over by the Lessor to the Lessee commencing from the date of execution of this Agreement.

4.3 All registration fees and duties in relation to the registration of the lease of the Leased land shall be borne solely by the Lessee.

5. Rental and Payment

5.1 In consideration of the lease of the Leased land under this Agreement, the Lessee agrees to pay the annual rental at the sum of 60,000.00 THB (Sixty Thousand Thousand Thai Baht only) for a period of thirty (30) years and for the renewals of the Lease Term as described hereunder, which is the Lease Term referred to in Clause 3.1 and the renewals referred to in Clause 3.2 and Clause 3.4 herein, in advance, in the total amount of 5,400,000.00 THB (Five Million Four Hundred Thousand Thai Baht only), less the “Deposit” in the amount of 500,000.00 THB (Five Hundred Thousand Thai Baht only), (hereinafter referred to as the “Rental”) in accordance with the “Payment Schedule” attached under Schedule A1 hereto. For the avoidance of doubt the rental payment in the amount of 5,400,000.00 THB (Five Million Four Hundred Thousand Thai Baht only) shall be deemed as payment for the first thirty (30) years of this Agreement and any of its extensions hereunder and therefore there shall be no further payment due in order to extend this lease hereunder.

[Gary A]

A usufruct violates my number two rule for living in Thailand;

NEVER be worth more dead than alive.

[happylarry]

Hi Gary A

I'm halfway to being that already lol cos wifey gets half my pension for the rest of her natural when I croak it.

Be happy...Larry

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Happy Larry:

Would like very much to hear what your solicitor has to say on Thursday and what his comments are on my situation. Sorry to hear about your difficulty in selling your place. It seems like real estate is slow most everywhere right now. It took us 2 years to sell our place in Australia, and I feel fortunate that we did then. Do you know if it is possible to put a clause in the contract stating that in the event of a sale of the lease it is agreed that it will be renewed for a new 30 year period starting then? Seem like that would make it easier to sell.