Do Thais Lack A Developed Ego?

[Falang Pan]

I've said it before but it bears repeating. Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity. As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self. But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop. What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona. There is no there there.

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority. A self. It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there. No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise. It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity. That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop. This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc. Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to. There is no "she" to change. All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions. The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity. Doesn't even have a developed ego.

[Darknight]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

[Explorer]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

I have to agree.... didn't have the strenght to finnish reading the whole crap

Explorer

[Ken]

Geeeesh! What the he1l is this "guy" talking about?

[Sigur ros]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just another bark

[dugdig]

Falang Pan,

You have an interesting way of looking at the world. I think so many people have such strong reactions to what you have said is that your entire synthesis is based on your limited observations. You have observed a very small number of Thai people I'm sure and certainly they mostly come from one micro niche of Thai society. You take this totally miniscule view and use it to make sweeping statements about Thai psycho-dynamics. The data you use is woefully inadequate for this purpose. You must always remember, "garbage in, garbage out."

Sincerely,

dugdig

[davethailand]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that

[kurgen]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so that makes a pair of &lt;deleted&gt; then

[boris]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mm.I think this is a little tendentious though I have sometimes had similar thoughts about the cognitive ability of my Jack Russell terrier.However it's an interesting line of thought and I can see exactly why certain Thai characteristics might reinforce the argument, although not just affecting girls of course!However if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.The brain damaged proles who sadly increasingly frequent the forum either won't understand what you're driving at or will scream out "what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;" or similar half witted expression.

[davethailand]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mm.I think this is a little tendentious though I have sometimes had similar thoughts about the cognitive ability of my Jack Russell terrier.However it's an interesting line of thought and I can see exactly why certain Thai characteristics might reinforce the argument, although not just affecting girls of course!However if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.The brain damaged proles who sadly increasingly frequent the forum either won't understand what you're driving at or will scream out "what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;" or similar half witted expression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

[Falang Pan]

Falang Pan,

You have an interesting way of looking at the world.  I think so many people have such strong reactions to what you have said is that your entire synthesis is based on your limited observations.  You have observed a very small number of Thai people I'm sure and certainly they mostly come from one micro niche of Thai society.  You take this totally miniscule view and use it to make sweeping statements about Thai psycho-dynamics.  The data you use is woefully inadequate for this purpose.  You must always remember, "garbage in, garbage out."

Sincerely,

dugdig

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi dugdig. You assume too much. I've had long term relationships with over 6 Thai girls from normal and wealthy families. All college educated. And I've dated over 12 altogether.

Sure, not all Thais are incapable of planning for the future and of knowing and expressing their emotions and of talking from a cohesive honest center instead of from a public persona that is just a mask. Not all. But much more so than in the west. I've never met a western adult woman who had as much an underdeveloped ego as is so common here.

[Boon Mee]

I do believe that Falang Pan is on to something here but the operative term is "western analytical reasoning". Thai and farang do not think alike...period.

Simple example: Emphasis Thais put on having "Fun" vs. the average farang work ethic.

As Boris said: "if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.

The topic does get a little deep for TV but it has it's merits.

[padma]

If this is a recurring experience for you. Then perhaps you should look at yourself.

As they say, why you point a finger outward there are always 3 fingers pointing at yourself. Why is it that you attract the Thai women that you do?

Or do you discriminate against a whole race due your experiences. which are based on who you are as well.

[Ken]

Mm.I think this is a little tendentious though I have sometimes had similar thoughts about the cognitive ability of my Jack Russell terrier.However it's an interesting line of thought and I can see exactly why certain Thai characteristics might reinforce the argument, although not just affecting girls of course!However if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.The brain damaged proles who sadly increasingly frequent the forum either won't understand what you're driving at or will scream out "what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;" or similar half witted expression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another "similar half witted expression".

[RamdomChances]

proles (whatever the &lt;deleted&gt; they are?)

I think they are people from proleand

[autonomous_unit]

Falang Pan, how can you determine the presence of this "interior persona" by observing external behavior? (Don't bother answering, I'm just reminding you of Philosophy 101).

You only really can infer this interior/exterior boundary if you can observe someone change behaviors based on context.

Might it be that each of your subjects have left their guard up, so to speak, so you have only observed their "external persona"? Ask one of your subjects to violate the trust of her family, or cause one of them to violate her trust and see how much evidence of a non-transient ego there is then.

[PAPA DUCK]

Freudian psychology couldn't possibly apply to the Thai development of the Id, the Ego or even the super ego. I would venture to guess there is a more humanistic explanation

[PAPA DUCK]

Freudian psychology couldn't possibly apply to the Thai development of the Id, the Ego or even the super ego.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is that? Are Thais not human?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do you ask? Are you in need of a therapy ? If so, I'll have to refer you to Dr Pat Pong

[Thetyim]

Proles is a derogatory slang term for proletarian. Chiefly UK

But anyway a large quantity of testicles

[Falang Pan]

Falang Pan, how can you determine the presence of this "interior persona" by observing external behavior?  (Don't bother answering, I'm just reminding you of Philosophy 101).

You only really can infer this interior/exterior boundary if you can observe someone change behaviors based on context.

Might it be that each of your subjects have left their guard up, so to speak, so you have only observed their "external persona"?  Ask one of your subjects to violate the trust of her family, or cause one of them to violate her trust and see how much evidence of a non-transient ego there is then. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

>>You only really can infer this interior/exterior boundary if you can observe

>> someone change behaviors based on context.

Yes, that would be a good way to make that inference. Also a good measure of an underdeveloped adult ego. Children tend to be different people depending on which peers they associate with. Peer pressure changes their attitudes and beliefs, and it's me too, me too, me too. Sound familiar of Thais? It takes a strong sense of self to disagree with a crowd. In the same way as it takes a strong sense of self to have moral character and integrity.

>>Might it be that each of your subjects have left their guard up, so to speak, so

>>you have only observed their "external persona"?

Yes, but despite the greatest of sexual intimacy for nearly a year, the guard is always up. My point is that the guard is all there is. There is nothing but guard. I dated one woman for 6 months. After things fell apart I asked her if there was anyone in the world for whom her guard was not up - anyone at all she confided in. Not one. Not even her sister. That's just the way it is here - you never - NEVER - let any one person know all of you.

>>Ask one of your subjects to violate the trust of her family, or cause one of

>>them to violate her trust and see how much evidence of a non-transient ego

>>there is then.

Yes, but that also proves my point. A self not fully transcending family. Not grown up. No independant self. MUST do what parents say, or at least appear to. Part of growing up is learning independance, that is an actual recognized stage of development; learning to think and act for oneself. Identifying with a group is not a sign of ego, in the sense of a sense of independent self.

[Ken]

I started a thread last night titled "What's Your Frequency And Average Time Limit?", and it seems to have been deleted.

A search for it shows it at this link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...lite=falang+pan

but when I click on that link http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...0&hl=falang+pan

the thread is shown as missing. And I can't see it in the forum.

Can you tell me how to view it and why it was deleted? It was about how often people have sex. Is that subject not allowed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Falang Pan:

Your post concerning "What's Your Frequency And Average Time Limit?" makes about as much sense as whatever it is you are trying to ask/say today. Sorry.

[Falang Pan]

If this is a recurring experience for you.  Then perhaps you should look at yourself.

As they say, why you point a finger outward there are always 3 fingers pointing at yourself.  Why is it that you attract the Thai women that you do? 

Or do you discriminate against a whole race due your experiences. which are based on who you are as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Padma, I suspect that no matter what I answer you will not be happy with negative generalizations about any group.

Fingers pointing back to myself? Why I attract the women I do? What has that got to do with anything? What difference does it make if I am at fault for attracting someone with a poorly developed sense of self to the argument that there are people with a poorly developed sense of self? If I am attracting a certain type, then you agree with me that there is this type - this type exists.

I have no problem with discriminating based on experiences. That's called pattern recognition, and is the basis of how all of us think. Unavoidable. Not ALL thais have underdeveloped egos. Duh. Many do - more so than the west. My fault?

[sbk]

6 months in a relationship is hardly "long term".

My sister has relationships that often fail. She always picks really nice, intelligent guys but in the end they always fail. Why? I suspect because subconsciously she doesn't want to get involved with a guy she could really fall in love with so she picks guys that won't work out. Perhaps the women you choose are ones who won't let their guard down. Have you ever thought that perhaps your observations are based solely on women you are attracted to and have very little to do with Thai women in general?

12 women do not a majority make.

[Falang Pan]

6 months in a relationship is hardly "long term".

My sister has relationships that often fail. She always picks really nice, intelligent guys but in the end they always fail. Why? I suspect because subconsciously she doesn't want to get involved with a guy she could really fall in love with so she picks guys that won't work out.  Perhaps the  women you choose are ones who won't let their guard down. Have you ever thought that perhaps your observations are based solely on women you are attracted to and have very little to do with Thai women in general?

12 women do not a majority make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've had two one year relationships, two 6 month relationships. And the pattern that I've notice is not restricted to my personal experience, it is informed by it. Many, many, many people complain of all the things that I am talking about, and you will find comments about Thais being deceitful and acting like children on all thai forums. This isn't about me. Nice try.

[jackr]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

Mm.I think this is a little tendentious though I have sometimes had similar thoughts about the cognitive ability of my Jack Russell terrier.However it's an interesting line of thought and I can see exactly why certain Thai characteristics might reinforce the argument, although not just affecting girls of course!However if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.The brain damaged proles who sadly increasingly frequent the forum either won't understand what you're driving at or will scream out "what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;" or similar half witted expression.

What a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

Well retorted there, Dave...needed a pick-me-up after a crap day.

[Sigur ros]

If this is a recurring experience for you.  Then perhaps you should look at yourself.

As they say, why you point a finger outward there are always 3 fingers pointing at yourself.  Why is it that you attract the Thai women that you do? 

Or do you discriminate against a whole race due your experiences. which are based on who you are as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Padma, I suspect that no matter what I answer you will not be happy with negative generalizations about any group.

Fingers pointing back to myself? Why I attract the women I do? What has that got to do with anything? What difference does it make if I am at fault for attracting someone with a poorly developed sense of self to the argument that there are people with a poorly developed sense of self? If I am attracting a certain type, then you agree with me that there is this type - this type exists.

I have no problem with discriminating based on experiences. That's called pattern recognition, and is the basis of how all of us think. Unavoidable. Not ALL thais have underdeveloped egos. Duh. Many do - more so than the west. My fault?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take it easy Falang Pan. ( just tested)

[Falang Pan]

WE are ALL different people at different times depending on our circumstances. This does not ONLY apply to children, or people with under-developed egos. As for the 'Me too' syndrome, this does not ONLY apply to Thais either. It may take a strong sense of self to disagree with a crowd, it may also be a sign of ignorance.

As for "proving your point" I don't think so... Are you really independant? We all depend on something and other people. If a Thai is 'appearing' to do what the parents want, yet doing what 'they' want to do, it is not only a sign of developed ego, it is also intelligent. My wife is Thai and went completely, and openly against her families wishes... and married me, a ferang. She comes from a wealthy family and knew she would be 'cut off' from the wealth. Her grandmother immediately signed her 5 houses over to her brother, in case she dies soon. So, they are not ALL into money either... as I have just over $20,000 in my bank accounts and no property.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, we are all different people depending on context. But surely you still see point, that children are more succeptible to peer pressure than adults, and that this is due to the development of the sense of self.

No, we are not independent. We are also part of groups, and correctly identify with groups. It isn't an either or situation. A western adult is more likely than a Thai to be an individual within a group, rather than merely part of a group.

Yes, not all Thais have underdeveloped egos. I said that already, didn't I?

[mr. p]

>>Your title "Do Thais Lack A Developed Ego?" Should have included ''some''... and the answer would have been a simple 'yes' as it would be for all nations.

What is your argument? That there is no such thing as levels of development? That such levels can not be measured statistically? Is that it? If not, then you have to admit that some cultures will have different average levels of developments upon various lines of development. I fully agree that there are many many lines of different kinds of development. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. So. Then. There it is.

[Jeff1]

Somethings wrong with my computer !

It stopped speaking english and got all blurry

[Dickie]

Interesting idea, though. Could someone, having to spend so much time throwing up a public face to the world, so neglect the development of his true face, so to speak, as to render himself a mere spectator to the actions of his public face.

Apparently psychopaths can become completely detached from the consequences of their own actions, even believing they didn't do them. Imagine: most of the Orientals are psychopaths. That would explain rhe Thai PM.