Palm Oil Or Rubber

[Southern Style]

Hi everyone,

My Thai wife,myself and our kids are looking at moving back to Nakhon Si Thammarat after living in Australia for the last 15 years. Can anyone tell me if they are currently farming rubber or palm oil and do they think it is worth while doing?

I am new to this forum so am sorry if this question has been asked before.

thanks

[sbk]

Hi everyone,

My Thai wife,myself and our kids are looking at moving back to Nakhon Si Thammarat after living in Australia for the last 15 years. Can anyone tell me if they are currently farming rubber or palm oil and do they think it is worth while doing?

I am new to this forum so am sorry if this question has been asked before.

thanks

Personally, I would go for rubber, the price of natural rubber is rising, due to the rising costs of petroleum products natural rubber will become more desirable. Also, once the tree is no longer producing so much rubber the trees are cut down and used for lumber, makes some very nice furniture.

Natural Rubber

[stoneman]

"Personally, I would go for rubber, the price of natural rubber is rising, due to the rising costs of petroleum products natural rubber will become more desirable. Also, once the tree is no longer producing so much rubber the trees are cut down and used for lumber, makes some very nice furniture."

I agree with the choice of rubber trees...One other consideration is that palm oil trees are very hard on the land and leave it very depleted...

We currently have started 1,500 rubber trees on our farm north of Udon Thani...About half are 2 1/2 yrs old and the balance have been in the ground about 3 - 4 months. We are installing a drip irrigation system on the new ruberr trees to see how much better they grow with water year round..

[udon]

Hi SS.

Welcome to the forum

How much land were you thinking of planting?

Good link sbk, thanks.

[limbos]

Rubber is the way to go, prices are really good.

Very intensive labour though, very early days............

[Southern Style]

"Personally, I would go for rubber, the price of natural rubber is rising, due to the rising costs of petroleum products natural rubber will become more desirable. Also, once the tree is no longer producing so much rubber the trees are cut down and used for lumber, makes some very nice furniture."

I agree with the choice of rubber trees...One other consideration is that palm oil trees are very hard on the land and leave it very depleted...

We currently have started 1,500 rubber trees on our farm north of Udon Thani...About half are 2 1/2 yrs old and the balance have been in the ground about 3 - 4 months. We are installing a drip irrigation system on the new ruberr trees to see how much better they grow with water year round..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your input. Our Thai family have been telling us that rubber is the better choice for the same reasons. It is just good to hear this from an outside source.

SS

[Southern Style]

Hi SS.

Welcome to the forum

How much land were you thinking of planting?

Good link sbk, thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Udon. Got a strange feeling that this forum is going to become very addictive.

Looking at 40 - 50 Rai in total. We are still trying to decide whether to plant or buy established farms. We have been told of a few farms that are for sale at the moment so when we come on holidays in Jan we will check them out.

SS

[udon]

Hi SS.

Welcome to the forum

How much land were you thinking of planting?

Good link sbk, thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Udon. Got a strange feeling that this forum is going to become very addictive.

Looking at 40 - 50 Rai in total. We are still trying to decide whether to plant or buy established farms. We have been told of a few farms that are for sale at the moment so when we come on holidays in Jan we will check them out.

SS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, you may want to look at the Kasikorn bank website for land forclosures, might find a bargain, sorry I don't have the full url to hand.

[Southern Style]

Hi SS.

Welcome to the forum

How much land were you thinking of planting?

Good link sbk, thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Udon. Got a strange feeling that this forum is going to become very addictive.

Looking at 40 - 50 Rai in total. We are still trying to decide whether to plant or buy established farms. We have been told of a few farms that are for sale at the moment so when we come on holidays in Jan we will check them out.

SS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, you may want to look at the Kasikorn bank website for land forclosures, might find a bargain, sorry I don't have the full url to hand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Checked out your advice with Kasikorn bank. Absolutely no bargains to be had there. Don't know how they sell anything with the prices they are asking. Thanks for the advice, although not a winner, still much appreciated.

SS

[Moonhunteruk]

If you are coming in January and you wife is from Nakon Si Tammarat then i would recommend you go to Trang to find your bargin i have recently brought land myself and there are some very good deals to be had with established trees or land alone. I will speak to my wife this evening and see what she can find out.

[ben01]

[ can rubber plants be grown anywhere or does the soil have to be of a special type..???

[udon]

there are some very good deals to be had with established trees or land alone

Hi Moonhunter.

Could you expand on the deal you got?

How many rai, location & how much?

cheers

[rio666uk]

[  can rubber plants be grown anywhere or does the soil have to be of a special type..???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can be grown in most areas - but - climate and soil conditions tend to be better suited in thailands south.

Issan soil quality and drought areas come into question too. many issan rubber plantations will have a lower yeild than their southern counterparts due to drought - of course this can be overcome by irrigating the trees via a bore hole, pump and drip system.

I understand that some issan farmers will also plant all sorts of other crops amongst the rubber trees to maximize a return whilst the rubber is slow to produce - whereas ive read that in the south, plantations are being constantly weeded to maximize light, water and soil nutrients to the rubber only....

I guess if you can find rubber being farmed in surin... then the soil is good enough, and providing youre prepared to invest you could always throw money at the project and add fertilizers etc to the soil to give your trees the best start.

[ben01]

[  can rubber plants be grown anywhere or does the soil have to be of a special type..???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can be grown in most areas - but - climate and soil conditions tend to be better suited in thailands south.

Issan soil quality and drought areas come into question too. many issan rubber plantations will have a lower yeild than their southern counterparts due to drought - of course this can be overcome by irrigating the trees via a bore hole, pump and drip system.

I understand that some issan farmers will also plant all sorts of other crops amongst the rubber trees to maximize a return whilst the rubber is slow to produce - whereas ive read that in the south, plantations are being constantly weeded to maximize light, water and soil nutrients to the rubber only....

I guess if you can find rubber being farmed in surin... then the soil is good enough, and providing youre prepared to invest you could always throw money at the project and add fertilizers etc to the soil to give your trees the best start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

who said i was farming in surin.....????

[rio666uk]

[  can rubber plants be grown anywhere or does the soil have to be of a special type..???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can be grown in most areas - but - climate and soil conditions tend to be better suited in thailands south.

Issan soil quality and drought areas come into question too. many issan rubber plantations will have a lower yeild than their southern counterparts due to drought - of course this can be overcome by irrigating the trees via a bore hole, pump and drip system.

I understand that some issan farmers will also plant all sorts of other crops amongst the rubber trees to maximize a return whilst the rubber is slow to produce - whereas ive read that in the south, plantations are being constantly weeded to maximize light, water and soil nutrients to the rubber only....

I guess if you can find rubber being farmed in surin... then the soil is good enough, and providing youre prepared to invest you could always throw money at the project and add fertilizers etc to the soil to give your trees the best start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

who said i was farming in surin.....????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

noted - you didnt say anything about surin - but brizol aint warm enough... as confirmed here

"Climatic factors

Hevea brasiliensis is a tropical tree. It grows best at temperatures of 20-28°C with a well-distributed annual rainfall of 1,800-2,000 mm. It grows satisfactorily up to 600 metres above sea level (but is capable of growing much higher - to at least 1000 metres near the Equator), and will perform on most soils provided drainage is adequate. Hevea tends to be damaged by high winds. Its required temperature and rainfall define its prime growing area as between the 10° latitudes on either side of the equator, but is cultivated much further north (Guatemala, Mexico and China) and south (Sao Paulo region of Brazil)"

[timber]

Interesting discussion. My wife has just planted Oil Palm and her brother and sister has rubber. The discision

is not easy and are betting on the future a bit. Malaysia over the years has gone back and forth. Rubber is tied to oil and the price will go up. Lumber looks ok but have to prune and work with trees to get good return. Recovery isn't great with hard woods.

Oil palm is interesting because of the committment that Thailand has made that it will have a difficult meeting on

gasahol. Should be lots of incentives and opportunities in the next few years. There is an awful lot of uses for various oils from the oil palm. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_en...guineensis.html

so the flexibitiy is there

I think you can't go wrong with either one as long as you don't spend too much for the land and the environment is suitable.

[Azul_Blanco]

My wife purchased 100 rai in Nakhon Si Thammarat last year. The land price was 15,000 baht per rai (title has been changed to her name at ampur). It is being turned into an oil palm plantation. We are not going to be living in Nakhon Si Thammart but nearby around Songkhla and were worried about not being able to keep an eye on a rubber crop so we decided on palm. It seems that a lot of rubber production goes missing when the owner is not around to watch it.

Palm is harvested twice a month and we can be onsite during the harvest. It has been a bit of a worrying start with the recent heavy flooding down here. About 100 trees were lost of the 2,000 planted. We are now having to go in and raise a low patch on the property which can be done for about 1,200 per rai.

The prices I have seen for existing palm and rubber plantations is over the top. It seems much better to buy raw land and do it yourself if you have the time. Palm will take 3-4 years to start producing and rubber will take about 7.

With the current prices for palm and rubber it seems land can be a good earner in the future. I'm betting commodity prices continue to rise though. I am hoping with the advent of bio-diesel that the palm price can be at least stabalized where it is now and hopefully move higher.

Feel free to PM me if I might be of help.

[timber]

Hi Azul,

My wife has about 10 rai of land up coast aways and she has oil palm on it. Is only three years old and just getting ready to produce. She has a lot of family in the area so haven't done much except fetilize.

I was wondering about buying more land and growing some more, but I don't have the slightest clue on how much reture their is on oil palm production. I can figure it out from research information, but I was wondering what they are really getting from a practical sense. Just want to figure out the return on investment. Can you help me?

Thanks

[Azul_Blanco]

The price paid to the grower is determined by the fruit bunch weight and the going market rate. It's been about 2.5 to 3 baht per kg lately.

I have not found much info from Thai websites but luckily there is a wealth of info from Malaysia and much of it is written in English. There average production per ha there is about 20 tons per year.

100 rai is equal to 16 ha.

Not a bad return. Hope this helps.

[timber]

Azul----

Thanks for the infor. He...He... if you want to make your own fuel there is a guy in Washington who has come up with a system to make your own bio-diesel. Can make enough to start a business.

Some nice tips on growing things on the page also. Probably will move down to south of Chumphon in a year or two. It would be nice to keep this forum going on rubber and oil palm. Possibility of starting a co-op if enough people. They give you some good advantages on prices and selling and other things.

Doesn't cost anything.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html

Take care,

[Sporting Dog]

I don't know much about the pros and cons of either but I know a few people involved in rubber down here (Trang) - rubber is getting a really good price now but apparently there is a lot of trees being planted everywhere (in the worlds rubber growing areas) so the high prices aren't expected to last. So I think it would be a good a good idea to to see what the rubber futures markets are doing before you decide on palm or rubber, established or start up crops.

Good luck....I love riding my bike thru the rubber plantations down here!!

[sbk]

I don't know much about the pros and cons of either but I know a few people involved in rubber down here (Trang) - rubber is getting a really good price now but apparently there is a lot of trees being planted everywhere (in the worlds rubber growing areas) so the high prices aren't expected to last. So I think it would be a good a good idea to to see what the rubber futures markets are doing before you decide on palm or rubber, established or start up crops.

Good luck....I love riding my bike thru the rubber plantations down here!!

True, but then as the price of petrochemical products continue to rise more manufacturers will make the switch to natural rubber. I remember reading a report about this some 5 years ago or so, stating that the price of natural rubber was only set to rise in the long term.

[udon]

Azul----

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html

Take care,

Interesting link, Timber, thanks

[Peter Perluka]

Hi all,

I am planning myself to settle in thailand together with my gf. We have been talking about setting up or buying over a rubberfarm. Now i know about the price of rubber is about 700baht a kilo. But thats it, more i don't know about rubberfarming. I wonder about the annual profits and cost are of a farm. And somebody perhaps know some websites where i can read about "what to do", "how to do", and "when to do"?

For now i just know a tree have a production untill its about 30-35 years old. And they cut the tree's at night and harvest all rubber in the morning. But whats next?

Regards,

Peter

Edited January 31, 2006 by Peter Perluka

[udon]

Hi all,

I am planning myself to settle in thailand together with my gf. We have been talking about setting up or buying over a rubberfarm. Now i know about the price of rubber is about 700baht a kilo. But thats it, more i don't know about rubberfarming. I wonder about the annual profits and cost are of a farm. And somebody perhaps know some websites where i can read about "what to do", "how to do", and "when to do"?

For now i just know a tree have a production untill its about 30-35 years old. And they cut the tree's at night and harvest all rubber in the morning. But whats next?

Regards,

Peter

see http://sres.anu.edu.au/associated/fpt/nwfp...uralrubber.html

and Google : rubber planting malaysia

[timber]

Hi Peter,

I am at work now and will send you some stuff when I get home. There is probably a bit of a spike in the Rubber market due to floods and a shortage of rubber. I would think the long term opportunities are tied into oil, so it looks good. Where bouts are you planning to go to? I have some relatives that grow rubber and know a lot of tricks of the trade. I guess your biggest decision is to buy an existing plantation or start from scratch. I would think starting from scratch is a lot cheaper. Although sometimes a plantation owner just decides to sell.

Take care,

[Peter Perluka]

Hi Peter,

I am at work now and will send you some stuff when I get home. There is probably a bit of a spike in the Rubber market due to floods and a shortage of rubber. I would think the long term opportunities are tied into oil, so it looks good. Where bouts are you planning to go to? I have some relatives that grow rubber and know a lot of tricks of the trade. I guess your biggest decision is to buy an existing plantation or start from scratch. I would think starting from scratch is a lot cheaper. Although sometimes a plantation owner just decides to sell.

Take care,

Thanks for your reply, i appriciate that,

Wish i could reach my gf, she knows more about the land we saw for sale. All i know now for the moment is that someone is selling his land (80rai) for 50000baht per rai. Thats inclusief the rubber tree. More information i don't know yet. But i will let my gf find out for me soon. I only thougth it is a waste of time to buy the land without the tree's coz now the price is high and maybe in 7 years its not anymore .

Hope to get your information when you get back home, for now goodluck at work.

regards,

[rio666uk]

Does anyone happen to know what soil conditions are best suited for palm oil and rubber?

[Peter Perluka]

Hi again,

I just remembered that the land we saw for sale was in teh chonburi province, near the city Nong Yai (my gf hometown)

Regards

[timber]

Peter

Some general comments. I'm sure someone can prove me wrong in all accounts. Rubber and Oil Palm can grow in a surprising variety of sites. I am an ex-forester from the West Coast of Canada and it amazes me where they will grow. The bottom line is good production of either fruit or rubber. Normally in the tropics the soils are not very deep and if you are growning crops they are fertile for a very short time. If you want to produce something like rubber or oil palm you have to fertilize to optimize production. I have listed some sites to look at that explain a lot for oil palm and rubber. As with anything the land is site specific and maybe you can get a government agricultural person to assess what you need.

50,000 babt per rai may not be a bad price depending on where it is. If there are producing rubber trees on it so much the better. Problem with rubber tree lumber is that the trees give very poor recovery as the spacing is tight and no pruning. Can always cut and grow oil palm. But that would mean a four year gap in production. Interesting state address by Bush saying that all the stops are out for ethanol production. My feel is that they will probably be buying ethanol to an extent as not much of the states is good for ethanol producition.

The foregoing has a lot of opinion in it so not stating as facts.

http://www.irrdb.com/IRRDB/NaturalRubber/R.../RubberTree.htm

http://sres.anu.edu.au/associated/fpt/nwfp...uralrubber.html

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_en...guineensis.html

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html