Crackdown On "farang" Teachers

[george]

Crackdown On "Farang" Teachers:

Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet required standards

BANGKOK: -- Authorities concerned are believed to soon set a common standard for all local schools in recruiting teachers, including those of foreign origins, following a recent case in which an American teacher was arrested for an alleged murder of a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago.

Deputy Secretary General to the Prime Minister Jakrapob Penkair said here Friday that he would meet secretary of the education minister next week to discuss standardized qualifications of all teachers in Thailand and criteria on teacher recruitments.

"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.

Mr. Surakiart, among other tasks, supervises the Ministry of Education.

"I'll discuss with the education minister's secretary on qualifications of teachers and tuitors in Thailand, particularly those work for international schools, as well as criteria for screening their backgrounds and issuing work permits for them," he told journalists.

Mr. Jakrapob's remarks followed Wednesday's arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of some international schools in Thailand.

The middle-aged American was arrested by the Thai Immigration Police Bureau in a downtown Bangkok apartment Wednesday afternoon following a request by US security officials on August 11.

According to Thai Immigration Police Bureau Commissioner Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsriskul, the American authorities had informed Thailand that Mr. Karr had fled the US to hide, first in Malaysia, and then in Thailand.

As the latest development, a court in Boulder, Colorado issued arrest warrants for the suspect on August 16 on charges of abduction and murder.

The arrested suspect confessed to strangling to death the then six-year-old 'beauty queen', Jon Benet Ramsey, in her home in the US state of Colorado on December 26, 1996.

The suspect said that he initially wanted to kidnap the young girl for ransom, but his demand was not met; so he strangled the kidnapped girl.

Mr. Karr left Penang, Malaysia, and entered Thailand on June 6 this year.

The immigration bureau chief said that he had ordered Mr. Karr's visa to be revoked, and that the man, found not to have committed any wrongdoing in Thailand, would be then extradited for trial in the US.

There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob.

--TNA 2006-08-18

Related links:

Work Permit in Thailand

Non-Immigrant Visa

[Ijustwannateach]

First the knee, then the jerk. Then the response.

Here are some possible scenarios:

1. Create more paperwork and bureaucracy, which makes it harder for foreigners to work legally as teachers. End result as market demand stays the same: more foreigners work illegally as teachers.

2. Create insanely high qualifications for foreigners to work in Thailand. End result: Foreigners without insane qualifications leave the country, suddenly market demand goes through the roof without accompanying salary rises ("We will pay 30K baht a month for a Ph.D in Education!"); more foreigners work illegally.

3. Make a song and dance show to save face, then continue business as usual. End result: Normal number of foreigners working illegally.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.

[lung]

Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet required standards

There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob.

--TNA 2006-08-18

YIPP... to much of them and mostly english

to much...

[Charma]

The UK have only just started to get to grips with the background checks on staff in schools following some high profile lapses (knee & elbow jerk I think). All staff now have to have Crminal Record (CRB) checks, for which you are given a certificate if passed. It would certainly be easy enough for the Thai's to insist upon production of this certificate and make follow up checks in the UK if required. Not sure what systems are in place in US or Oz etc. Only this robust approach will prevent undesireable individuals fleeing to Thailand to find a safe teaching haven.

[Ijustwannateach]

True, but how will the Thais deal with the situation:

Khun A., an incompetent idiot who happens to be in charge of hiring the farang staff, has put off advertising for one or two teachers until the week just before school starts. Khun A. puts the ad in the paper. Teachers apply. When told they need a background check paper, they check with their embassies and are told it will take (1-2 months, fill in the blank with any reasonable number).

Do you think the Thai schools will:

1) Do the right thing and pay overtime and temporary substitutes (who must also have background checks, remember) until the teacher candidates check out, or

2) Employ them anyway and hope everything works out ok?

Even the process of getting a work permit is already so complicated and so much of a joke that most foreign teachers start out by working illegally- there's actually little choice in the matter.

To imagine that Bangkok could become this rigourous in vetting teacher candidates presumes an entire overhaul of the entire visa and work permit system. Desirable, and not impossible, but extremely improbable.

In fact, the real solution to the problem must lie NOT in putting further restrictions and barriers to people getting real work permits. Most people who have real work permits look pretty good on paper- believe me, it's not easy.

To be honest, I can't blame BCC that much. They were down a teacher (nevermind that it was their own fault the previous one left, apparently) and they had to get someone to fill in. Even in the best circumstances, it takes a month or so usually to get someone legally up to speed. What were they supposed to do? There aren't any work-permitted positions in Bangkok for "temporary school substitute at a moment's notice."

Most of the real problem lies in the foreign teacher population who are working illegally for long stretches of time and completely unregulated (and unprotected). The de facto situation must be addressed realistically: either Thailand must lose a large percentage of its foreign teachers because they don't have minimum qualifications or don't earn the standard set for the permit, or some lower standard must be set and regulated which allows those with fewer academic credentials and earning lower salaries to be regulated and vetted and receive work permits and be legal (and also be protected from the abuse they often experience). However, this takes the power away from the Thai school directors and puts it into the law. I can't see that as something they'd really want to have happen.

"Steven"

Edited August 18, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[seri thai]

....and whilst we're at it how about background checks on politicians?

known criminal associations

fraudelent business transactions

evidence of corruption

Lets sweep the country clean of "undesirables"

[OxfordWill]

Song and dance, and then business as usual I think, Steve. Besides, there was no mention of the 'shopping mall schools' that are so popular and dens for teachers working without permits. IF schools cant hire them, privately owned english classes will. Or they will all go freelance and that will become the norm.

[Lacoste]

The school that my Son and Daughter attend require all teachers to have a criminal background check already.

This, along with the teachers formal qualifications can be requested for inspection by any parent or guardian of children attending the school.

[kozi]

Thailand has become a haven for foreign criminals and sexual deviants.

I would like to see the visa amount substantially increased for those acquiring one year visas, a termination of the visa runs and government agencies established for those wishing to apply to stay in the Kingdom short term maybe excluding those on holiday. Companies, schools being fined or closed down if discovered employing illegal stayers, criminals and sexual deviants. Employers knowing or not knowing.

From each home country a special document is available from police confirming there is nothing or something on file about applicants. I have one myself, from Scotland Yard London police. Cost £10, 40 days for issue.

[Charma]

I agree that this will be very difficult to achieve. The circumstances you describe above also happened in the UK, even in the middle of all the scandals and where 99% of the staff were from the UK. With the background checks being an international concern, the problems multiply.

However, they need to make a start somewhere. They could ask the UK teachers for their CRB certificates. This would not be foolproof, but it would do something. Even if they allow someone to start work, they could continue with the checks. It would be better to get rid of them after a few months if something is uncovered, rather than let someone continue to work long term.

Foreign law enforcement agencies are more willing than ever to co-operate in trying to prevent their nationals committing sex crimes abroad, but that partnership has to be a forged from both ends. I am not sure how much willingness there is on the Thai side to really root out the individuals that pose the risks.

As you said, very very difficult, but not impossible.

[Ijustwannateach]

Lacoste, is your school a THAI school, which is really the type of school I'm talking about, or an International (foreign-managed) one? The International ones can afford to ask for the best, because they pay the best- and they plan ahead. These two characteristics are not common in normal Thai schools.

[britmaveric]

The school that my Son and Daughter attend require all teachers to have a criminal background check already.

This, along with the teachers formal qualifications can be requested for inspection by any parent or guardian of children attending the school.

Quite easy to forge credentials - trip up to Kao San Rd would solve that. I don't think background checks are as good as you might think.

[Ijustwannateach]

A further complication is that recent government efforts devolved power and responsibility for vetting credentials to the schools themselves- in effect, the government said the schools have both the right and the responsibility to check credentials properly. If a teacher was found to be unqualified, the school would be held responsible (so Kozi already has one of his wishes).

And yet another is the fact that every time the prime minister sneezes, there's a new education minister, who has absolute power. It's not like the Japanese system where the bureaucracy maintains stability- everything can go up in the air.

"Steven"

[Lacoste]

Lacoste, is your school a THAI school, which is really the type of school I'm talking about, or an International (foreign-managed) one? The International ones can afford to ask for the best, because they pay the best- and they plan ahead. These two characteristics are not common in normal Thai schools.

Yes it is an international, foreign-managed school. I agree that only a relativly small number of schools can realisticly do this.

[Lacoste]

The school that my Son and Daughter attend require all teachers to have a criminal background check already.

This, along with the teachers formal qualifications can be requested for inspection by any parent or guardian of children attending the school.

Quite easy to forge credentials - trip up to Kao San Rd would solve that. I don't think background checks are as good as you might think.

As far as the qualifications go Brit, these are thoroughly checked out and the certificate is not just taken at face value. With regards to the background check, i fully agree with you, i would not know if i was looking at a real document or a forged document having never seen one before.

[maprao]

Thailand has become a haven for foreign criminals and sexual deviants.

I would like to see the visa amount substantially increased for those acquiring one year visas, a termination of the visa runs and government agencies

From each home country a special document is available from police confirming there is nothing or something on file about applicants. I have one myself, from Scotland Yard London police. Cost £10, 40 days for issue.

So people who have a larger amount of money will have no criminal record?? What planet did that one come from.

The letters you refer to from home countries are actually only available from the States and UK. If they are available from other countries ..... Do I need elaborate na

Criminals are everywhere not just Thailand. Infact the problem of teachers behaving in an unacceptable manner is being covered extensively at the moment in the "Thai Rath" newspaper. This involves Thai teachers.

One bad apple! Seek references, check references, check authenticity of credentials, plan your recruitment and conduct proper interviews. Maybe accept the fact that better salaries will have to be paid to obtain better people. Would all of this stopped this character? I doubt it.

and no I am not a teacher it does not pay enough in any country :-(

Edited August 18, 2006 by maprao

[deminister]

Unfortunately, most Farang teachers in thailand are under qualified and overpaid in comparison with their Thai friends, they are accepted because they are native speakers. They are as bad as their counterparts from China.

Most teachers are not tutors at all, they are great in everything except in teaching.

In this case the chap was qualified, but physically dangerous. In most cases teachers are screwing up the curiculum of their students. Chapeau if the Thai authorities enforce the quality from now on. Hardly any teacher in thailad would be allowed to teach in the West.

[dotcom]

Yes Inspector Clouseau is on the job. Background checks. We'll get back to you with the result in a couple of years.

Edited August 18, 2006 by dotcom

[Ijustwannateach]

Maprao- I think you hit the nail right on the head. The only real solution to the problem is economic, one way or another.

[Ijustwannateach]

If I may, I would like to post a very interesting quotation from a sometime poster here on Thaivisa, Paully, quoted from another forum.

But how are foreign teachers in Thailand to be vetted from their country of origin, Haltest?

To take our country of origin, Britain, as an example, there is no way the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) would release details of a police record direct to organisations in Thailand. The data on the police records is clearly protected under the Data Protection Act in the UK - and quite rightly, too. If you try to obtain it yourself, how would the Thai school know whether the result was not forged? Would they know what a UK police record report looked like? As you're probably aware, if you're accepted for an education degree (eg a PGCE) in the UK or if you apply for a job as a teacher in the UK then you need to apply for a CRB check. But this is very much an exception (it took a change in the law to do it) and the CRB will only release details to UK colleges/schools on its approved list who have membership numbers at the CRB and the applicant and not to anyone else. To require the CRB to release details to other organisations, such as schools in Thailand, would take another change in the law. It's a non-starter, in reality.

Even supposing it were possible to obtain a CRB check for a Thai school, who would pay for it (it's about 35 pounds a pop and is only valid for 6 months) and what happens about the delay? When I applied for a CRB check last year via my uni (I was doing a PGCE) I had to wait 2.5 months for the result. If the TES forum is anything to go by, I was pretty lucky - others were waiting 3 or even 4 months. Would the teacher be allowed to work temporarily before being sacked due to a 'negative' CRB result (this in itself opens a can of worms - who decides if, say, a speeding conviction should disqualify you from school employment) or should he have to wait 3 or 4 months before starting teaching? At that rate there would be no farang teachers for most Thai schools. Finally, the CRB has come under fire recently for giving a number of 'wrong' results - people have been banned from school employment/courses because of 'mistakes' on the CRB results and have then had, expensively and stressfully, to try to clear their names.

Thanks for the info, Paully.

{Link removed by Admin }

[Arkady]

Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.

There hasn't been any suggestion that the guy had a criminal record. He seems to have been caught because he wanted to be caught.

[qualtrough]

Unfortunately, most Farang teachers in thailand are under qualified and overpaid in comparison with their Thai friends, they are accepted because they are native speakers. They are as bad as their counterparts from China.

Most teachers are not tutors at all, they are great in everything except in teaching.

In this case the chap was qualified, but physically dangerous. In most cases teachers are screwing up the curiculum of their students. Chapeau if the Thai authorities enforce the quality from now on. Hardly any teacher in thailad would be allowed to teach in the West.

Care to back up your statements with any facts or figures? It seems only fair if you are going to trash an entire community. Judging from the grammar and spelling mistakes in your post I can see why you might have a grudge against teachers. BTW, I am not a teacher, nor am I involved in any activities related to education.

[Lacoste]

If I may, I would like to post a very interesting quotation from a sometime poster here on Thaivisa, Paully, quoted from another forum.

But how are foreign teachers in Thailand to be vetted from their country of origin, Haltest?

To take our country of origin, Britain, as an example, there is no way the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) would release details of a police record direct to organisations in Thailand. The data on the police records is clearly protected under the Data Protection Act in the UK - and quite rightly, too. If you try to obtain it yourself, how would the Thai school know whether the result was not forged? Would they know what a UK police record report looked like? As you're probably aware, if you're accepted for an education degree (eg a PGCE) in the UK or if you apply for a job as a teacher in the UK then you need to apply for a CRB check. But this is very much an exception (it took a change in the law to do it) and the CRB will only release details to UK colleges/schools on its approved list who have membership numbers at the CRB and the applicant and not to anyone else. To require the CRB to release details to other organisations, such as schools in Thailand, would take another change in the law. It's a non-starter, in reality.

Even supposing it were possible to obtain a CRB check for a Thai school, who would pay for it (it's about 35 pounds a pop and is only valid for 6 months) and what happens about the delay? When I applied for a CRB check last year via my uni (I was doing a PGCE) I had to wait 2.5 months for the result. If the TES forum is anything to go by, I was pretty lucky - others were waiting 3 or even 4 months. Would the teacher be allowed to work temporarily before being sacked due to a 'negative' CRB result (this in itself opens a can of worms - who decides if, say, a speeding conviction should disqualify you from school employment) or should he have to wait 3 or 4 months before starting teaching? At that rate there would be no farang teachers for most Thai schools. Finally, the CRB has come under fire recently for giving a number of 'wrong' results - people have been banned from school employment/courses because of 'mistakes' on the CRB results and have then had, expensively and stressfully, to try to clear their names.

Thanks for the info, Paully.

{Link removed by Admin }

From FAQs at http://www.crb.gov.uk

I am applying for a Residency/Visa/Work Permit overseas and need to show that I have no criminal record in the UK. How can I do this?

You will need to contact the Data Protection section at your nearest police headquarters for information about making a ‘Subject Access Request’ under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

The Metropolitan Police receive many requests for "certificates of good conduct" or "Police clearance certificates" in relation to visa or work applications in countries outside of the UK. Although the UK police do not issue actual certificates, we are advised that foreign embassies will generally accept a police reply to a Subject Access Request.

[dog412]

you get what you pay for.

[Beavis and Butthead]

This is good news

[gharknes]

Thailand needs teachers to educate the government officiials on how not to be stupid, they are children, something I have discovered after living here a while...............they are like children

present some of the senarios that we see govenment take here to a primary school in the west and I really think you will see similar ressults

they just haven't got a clue

[Charma]

As Lacoste has pointed out, Criminal history can be obtained and as I said before, law enforcement are more willing than ever to cooperate, particularly as their nationals are committing criminal offences even whilst overseas. Most sex offenders ahve records going back many years. Big mistakes ahve been made in the UK over recent years and the system is still far from perfect.

However, CRB checks are only part of the issue. As Mapao mentioned, the most effective checks are references. They MUST be followed up. They will uncover criminal offences and lack of qualifications. They are the easiest thing to check up upon.

[lingyai]

This is good news

So how is this good news? Background checks are good, but more BS paperwork and rules for the poor teachers, this helps no one.

As you have a Newt gringrich quote that bashes Bill Clinton as your signature it questionable if you have any sense whatsoever.

[thomas3940]

Glad they caught the dude, poor patsy died before she could be vindicated. Happy for the family after 10 years! As for Teachers in Thailand it's not ones working without permits I dislike it's the ones working for 1/2 wages or free doo gooders

Crackdown On "Farang" Teachers:

Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet required standards

BANGKOK: -- Authorities concerned are believed to soon set a common standard for all local schools in recruiting teachers, including those of foreign origins, following a recent case in which an American teacher was arrested for an alleged murder of a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago.

Deputy Secretary General to the Prime Minister Jakrapob Penkair said here Friday that he would meet secretary of the education minister next week to discuss standardized qualifications of all teachers in Thailand and criteria on teacher recruitments.

"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.

Mr. Surakiart, among other tasks, supervises the Ministry of Education.

"I'll discuss with the education minister's secretary on qualifications of teachers and tuitors in Thailand, particularly those work for international schools, as well as criteria for screening their backgrounds and issuing work permits for them," he told journalists.

Mr. Jakrapob's remarks followed Wednesday's arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of some international schools in Thailand.

The middle-aged American was arrested by the Thai Immigration Police Bureau in a downtown Bangkok apartment Wednesday afternoon following a request by US security officials on August 11.

According to Thai Immigration Police Bureau Commissioner Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsriskul, the American authorities had informed Thailand that Mr. Karr had fled the US to hide, first in Malaysia, and then in Thailand.

As the latest development, a court in Boulder, Colorado issued arrest warrants for the suspect on August 16 on charges of abduction and murder.

The arrested suspect confessed to strangling to death the then six-year-old 'beauty queen', Jon Benet Ramsey, in her home in the US state of Colorado on December 26, 1996.

The suspect said that he initially wanted to kidnap the young girl for ransom, but his demand was not met; so he strangled the kidnapped girl.

Mr. Karr left Penang, Malaysia, and entered Thailand on June 6 this year.

The immigration bureau chief said that he had ordered Mr. Karr's visa to be revoked, and that the man, found not to have committed any wrongdoing in Thailand, would be then extradited for trial in the US.

There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob.

--TNA 2006-08-18

Related links:

Work Permit in Thailand

Non-Immigrant Visa