mazeltov

There is another charge that can be brought against Thaksin, namely a crime against Humanity. However I doubt Thai society, being morally blind, will countenance it. I recall that in 2003 almost 2,500 people, including a nine year child were done to death by the Thaksin regime in a so called war against drugs. It later transpired that most of the victims were innocent and to compound the offence the murdered innocents were, and still are, slandered as unrepentant drug dealers. Drawling drawing room Marxist apologists continue to cite that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin or his Ministers. However he was PM and if we employ normal standards of accountability then he and his ministers have a prima facie case of a crime against humanity to answer. Murder on this scale definitely constitutes a Crime against Humanity!

Thaksin has been charged and acquitted for this already. Besides, the war on drugs appeared to have the support from a higher institution.

Sorry, discussion of the higher institution is not allowed.

Please don't try to lead the discussion into that direction.

Everyone in TV will get into trouble.

You can listen to birthday speeches of 2002 and 2003 without getting into trouble.

That will also help to get a clue why Thaksin said that the UN is not his father.

It may be in the interest of the Thai government, if it wants to taken seriously. For instance, the EU wanted to send observers to cover the last election 2007 (also an internal affair), but the army junta refused to even discuss the idea.

Given that Thailands recent problems are based around "free and fair" elections, it would be a good idea to have international observers.

But I don't really see either side agreeing to this.

I didn't know the red side was against international observers. Do you have any link supporting this?

Here is an article on the topic:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...ctoral-culture/

Thaksin has gone on record saying 'the UN is not my father' when some asked about the 2500+ drugwar deaths. In the recent 'protest' the UDD leaders (and maybe PTP MPs) have petitioned UN, USA, UK and EU to sent observers to protect them from this obviously evil government (petition accepted, no comment, don't call us, we call you.). Internal affair. Now that this protest is over I very much doubt any of the parties involved wants foreign influence. It would spoil the Thai fun.

who would Thais like Thaksin consider as their father? It is essential to know that to understand this comment in its context.

The airport was operational within 2 days. The huge clean up bill was for government house.

Edit: What were their demands that they acheived 100% of? The courts disbanded the PPP, but the PTP were still in government.

Their demand was to simply dissolve the government... the same basic demand that the red shirts had. Both parties had a lot on their agenda besides (red = exonerate Thaksin and friends / yellow = disenfranchise uneducated voters), but only the yellows got what they wanted again and again. The only thing they couldn't do is influence the election after Thaksin dissolved the gov't under pressure from them and then won again.

The methods to begin with were almost identical. Both called for rallies. Both paid -some- people to be there (the yellows did this openly on their television station), raised funds (from multiple sources), and used violence and threats against media and civilians that were bold enough to disagree with them. The main difference is that the yellows had active military units acting as guards, and the reds had active military units acting as aggressors.

But they didn't dissolve the government, and they stopped protesting. As I said above, the PTP were still in government when the yellows stopped their protests.

When did the yellows use violence and threats against the media and civilians?

They did.

are you sure that you are not another apologists for the team yellow by any chance?

There is another charge that can be brought against Thaksin, namely a crime against Humanity. However I doubt Thai society, being morally blind, will countenance it. I recall that in 2003 almost 2,500 people, including a nine year child were done to death by the Thaksin regime in a so called war against drugs. It later transpired that most of the victims were innocent and to compound the offence the murdered innocents were, and still are, slandered as unrepentant drug dealers. Drawling drawing room Marxist apologists continue to cite that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin or his Ministers. However he was PM and if we employ normal standards of accountability then he and his ministers have a prima facie case of a crime against humanity to answer. Murder on this scale definitely constitutes a Crime against Humanity!

And what would be your conclusion about the death in the last two month?

Interpol won't act on 'political' arrest warrant

Thaksin denies financing red movement

Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said in a television interview that Interpol would not execute a Thai warrant for his arrest on terrorism charges because it was politically motivated,.

He told Australian Broadcasting Corp by telephone late Wednesday that he had never supported violent protest.

"Interpol have their own criteria to judge, that is, to not be politically motivated. This is clearly politically motivated and there is no ground," he added.

Thaksin said Interpol, the Paris-based international police intelligence-sharing association, would not act on such a groundless and politically motivated warrant.

An Interpol official was not immediately available for comment on Thursday.

The Thai Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Thaksin on terrorism charges for allegedly involving in the red protests in Bangkok that left 88 people dead.

"In my mind, I always advocate ... peaceful protest," he said. "Thailand needs reconciliation."

He described the burning of buildings blamed on his supporters as a "set up."

"The big fire ... must be the work of (a) professional," he said.

He said it was "definitely" not the work of a red shirt and "it must be well planned ahead."

"As an ex-police (officer), I can assure you that this is a well planned and professionally done" act of arson, he said.

Meanwhile he told New York Times he did not finance or organize the Red Shirt movement that had staged a two-month sit-in here.

"No, no, no," he said.

As evidence, he said that during the military crackdown last week when 15 people died, "I was in Paris they sent my picture shopping at Louis Vuitton with my daughter."

After that, as red shirt leaders were being rounded up and arrested in Thailand, he said, he went to the Cannes film festival.

"I am in contact with them, and they ask for advice sometimes," he said, describing his relationship with the protest leaders. Some of those leaders asserted that he was more directly involved.

The telephone interview was one of several media interviews organized by lawyers for Thaksin, who was speaking from an undisclosed location outside Thailand, on the same day they filed an appeal against the terrorism accusation; the charge carries a maximum sentence of death.

"I have been in Uganda, Moscow, Saudi and Lebanon," he said, naming just a few of the countries he has visited on what seems an endless world tour.

"During what is happening in Thailand, I'm traveling for my business in many countries," he said. "How can I become a terrorist?"

-- The Nation 2010-05-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Thaksin said Interpol, the Paris-based international police intelligence-sharing association, would not act on such a groundless and politically motivated warrant.

my Thaksin is an impudent man

he is even telling Interpol what they can do

someone should send this article to the Chief at Interpol and see how he feels about a convicted criminal and accused terrorist telling him how to do his job.

Time to get real. how often we had heard some thai government statement/fantasy that interpol will 'bring Thaksin back'. But it never happened.

I guess you failed to realise that Interpol said exactly that about the previous charges on Thaksin ''politically motivated" sme as a lot of othr countries did it and never react on any extradition requests.

its also now time to realise that despite some patrons of beer bars in Thailand there is no international community that sees Thaksin as a paria and an uber mastermind criminal.

Diplomats and state officials in your home countries act sober and will not listen to the opinions of some grumpy old expats in Thailand who hate Thksin for whatever reason (probably for being thai/chinese and having money unlike them).

from the OP, Thai officials finally admit that they never had a chance to 'get' Thaksin with interpol:

Isn't the title of this thread a bit misleading? There is nothing in the news report where it said that Interpol would track Thaksin.

yes, but be lenient. it gives some people the hope that Thaksin will be brought back. yearn for Thaksin is all what they have and keeps their forum existence busy.

There's no way in hel_l interpol is going to get involved in this domestic political dispute. In any case, why would they "track" someone who makes no efforts to hide his movements? Very misleading thread title.

of course, everybody with some brain knows that and it wasn't the first time that the government came up with such statements. enjoy the entertainment it provides and watch the usual suspects and Thaksin fans getting wet and all excited about it.

look at this thread:

Interpol Asked To Help Find Thaksin, THAKSIN, WHERE ARE YOU?

its from May 22, 2009 and even back then it was only good for a laugh.

Same ol' copypasta, eh?

Could you explain?

You know... copypasta... isn't that a word everybody uses?

Isn't the title of this thread a bit misleading? There is nothing in the news report where it said that Interpol would track Thaksin.

yes, but be lenient. it gives some people the hope that Thaksin will be brought back. yearn for Thaksin is all what they have and keeps their forum existence busy.

Ballpoint's point that you completely ignored concerned your current location and your hijacking of the thread. If these are points you are unable to or unwilling to respond to, better to not quote him i would suggest.

Ballpoint wasn't talking to me anyway and i wasn't talking with you. so what is the problem?

in case you don't know, the harassment in my right of information doesn't mean that the internet not offers certain workarounds.

why don't focus on the provided content instead of starting pointless guesswork about my current location or kind of internet connection? does that change anything of what was written?

don't like the message, shoot the messenger tactic. low style arguments.

Well then lets just use some Thai logic.

Like the farang in a car accident,

'Farang it is your fault,

if you weren't in our country the accident would never have happened.'

Not true, BS.

And that isn't Thai logic, that is nothing more than a grumpy farang expat myth some so called experts on Thailand will tell you in a drunken state of mind in a beer bar.

low style argument.

[

quote name=gl9999' post='3643913' date='2010-05-26 14:11:34]

mazeltov' post=2010-05-26

Seh Deang was shot, murdered while given an interview to a reporter. probably by a sniper who hid somewhere in the dark.

no-one found guilty for it, so we don't know who it was, but you don't hesitate to call it 'justice'.

you must have a very distorted understanding of what 'justice' actually means.

A terrorist who dared snipers to shoot him gets a bullet in his head. That is justice.

Sae daeng is dead. Sae daeng was shot. Sae Daeng was killed. At this moment in time there has been no legal finding that Sae Daeng was "murdered". He was part of an illegal uprising that declared war on the country (literally) and he was a traitor. If the military did it. It wasn't nec. murder. If the government ordered it then it likely wasn't murder. (Killing an enemy commander in occupied territory is unlikely to be considered murder.) If the reds did it ...... then it was one terrorist murdering another?

Another word applies too;

Mutineer.

On many news sites the word was 'renegade' which is probably more correct than mutineer.

That applies too,

but he was seen with and controling other currently serving army personnel,

and they were actively as a group going against Army command and against orders.

That is a mutiny for sure.

outspoken against police corruption, a critic of the unconstitutional and actually illegal 2006 coup, after the 2007 election continuously warning the military of staging another coup and during the protest warning the army to used armed force and violence against civilians, thais, the red shirts.

call him mutineer because he didn't support a military dictatorship, but he is a true folk here for many thais. and there is not question that he was very loyal to the king and not an enemy of the people. a very intelligent and well educated man with a spleen for a big show and his own kind of humour. many farangs seems to not understand him because they don't understand Thailand and its specific cultural and political issues at all.

the 70/30 yellow ultra right wing extremist didn't like this soldier of the people and spreading lots of unproven rumours, propaganda, lies and disinformation about him. gullible farangs, thaksin haters fell for it and repeating that trash with more fabrication and exaggeration added.

anyway, there are a few members, who are definitely not in favour of the red cause and who are able to communicate with their Thai partners about such more complex issues. They wrote a couple of comments that Seh Daeng doesn't fits the black and white picture the usual suspects and simpletons paint here.

<Inoperable link to source. Content of post deleted> -- Maestro

More people got killed from Toyota cars having bad accelerators.

More people got killed yesterday in Kingston Jamaica moving in on drug lords,

than happened clearing out Rajprasong that day.

The 80 total is for several days, of Reds roving out to attack static army positions.

Yet the army is the reds target to blame, and to spin, and to blame some more.

We expected this. And it is not justice either it is politics by other means, at it's lowest...

you could also argue that no-one lives for ever.

What a bizarre logic and of course the lowest way to excuse and justify the deadly results of Abhisit's way of justice.

Hi.I am wondering if Mr.Thaksin is a "member" in the New World Order "group"? :shock1 :

A friend of mine sent me an email only the other day about this

From the email

The New World Order does include Thailand, stop thinking in local terms!! Thailand will become part of the Asian Union (China, Thialand ect....) and the Asian Union, like the European Union and the (now in its early stages) American Union (inc; America, Canada, Mexico ect.....) are all part of the NWO control grid!! Then when they've established all the Unions, then they'll join all of them together to form a facist World government!! But by then 80% of us will be dead!! You can ignore it all you like, but that won't make it go away!!

He obviously doesn't know about Asean

He also suggested I have a look at INFOWARS.COM for more details

This board has members who actually believe something like that. You don't have to go to infowars for that. You can found it all here. look at the entry below. it is a rant about Thaksins new lawyer. he got the name wrong and writes about a 'Robert Armstrong' instead of using his real name Robert Amsterdam.

Interesting to see that the lawyer Robert Armstrong is a leading Zionist and an avid supporter of right wing Zionist and Israeli terrorist groups, along with being a racist as his comments show , his views regarding non Jews are alarming as are his comments concerning the racial and religious superiority of the Jewish people and their being the ''Master Race.''

Seems a very familiar piece of rhetoric that was common place in the middle of the last century by another proponent of the ''Master race'' theory intent on world domination.

His trotting out and peddling of the old line'' The world is anti Semite '' is indeed a hackneyed phrase designed to invoke sympathy and to cover the Zionist repressive cause

Watching and listening to interviews by Robert Armstrong it becomes apparent that he has no love for the common man and woman in the street as is proved by his comments concerning the U.K trade union movement and the collection of socialists movements and presidents and grass roots labour movements he has dealt with over the years of his somewhat less than impressive career as an international rabble rouser.

Robert Armstrong is a racist Neo Facist who is embracing the red Shirt movement along with Thaksin to yet further extend their control over the common people.

Listening to Robert Armstrong it becomes apparent that Thaksin and Robert Armstrong are both megalomaniacs who share one common one aim, absolute power i.e. dictatorship.

One is left wondering if Robert Armstrong is actually as well qualified as he claims or is he in reality a world class rabble rouser ?

The Zionist cause is oppressive and the interference of a Zionist in Thailands internal matters is indeed a cause for concern, the Israeli lobbyists will of course be promoting the cause of Thaksin as their arms suppliers are intent on selling as many war weapons as possible, Thaksin would indeed be a fine client for them.

I would not discount the involvement of the N.W.O. or the Bilderberg group either, I certainly would not dispute those groups amongst others of indeed having stoked the fires (no pun intended) regarding the recent civil strife in Thailand.

One only has to look at some of Thaksins friends outside of Thailand Adnam Khashoggni a disreputable international arms dealer who has had a finger or two in conflicts around the world.

Incidentally, what actually did happen regarding the 35 tons of military ordinance that arrived at the airport, who sent it who paid for it and why ?

Thaksin is playing a seriously dangerous game where he is running with extremists who will destroy him and ultimately Thailand and its people if they get their own way.

Two questions.

1

If he's banned from entering, say, France and the UK, would that also mean he's banned from using their airspace?

2

With regards to extradition, it is possible that this Geff Savage guy is being set up as a pawn.

1. Savage gets the death sentence.

2. The UK won't allow that and will protest.

3. Thailand reiterates its demand to have Thaksin extradited.

4. The UK pressures Montenegro into handing over Thaksin

5. A swap gets made: The UK gets Savage; Thailand gets Thaksin.

Seems unlikely though since it's hard to see why Thailand would want Thaksin back.

Excellent and thoughtful post which some might say epitomises the sophistication and knowledge of the Thai Visa community, and the standard of comment on recent events.

5555

Some really dream hard and give everything for one big goal - to get their Thaksin back.

How many time have we read in the past few month "Interpol" has been asked"???

These stories become boring!

A bit less boring since Thailand just last week shipped off a serious low life wanted by UAE.

Quid pro quo in advance?

Of course Chalerm will say the opposite of A and K, that's ALL he ever does say...

what is going? any progress? will A&K be successful soon? i start to develop some doubts, but good luck to them. 5555

Back to the well documented rumor of the two passenger aircraft packed with 114 large suitcases and trunks that Thaksin took with him for his 2 week visit to Europe 2 days before the coup.

you can google "thaksin 2006 coup 58 56 suitcases aircraft",

You can google "Santa Claus", "Moon hoax", "Pranic Living" , "Nazi-ufo's over Iraq" - all well documented. in case you need money you can meet online that Nigerian dude who will promise you billions of dollars.

Enjoy the internet.

Yes, it is so clever. just have special forces in plainclothes roaming through the streets, armed with assault rifles, fire around.

the nest way that the government can gather evidence about terrorists or blame unknown third parties if journalists or red cross nurses get killed in the process of enforcing law and order, M(ark)16 Abhisit style.

LOL! It's now a conspiracy theory now. Can you also make one up to tell us that Central World housed a CIA safehouse and that it was burned down by the government?

Did i say that?

The question is still there. do you have any explanation for the white shirt guy and his rifle? What he is doing there? is he part of the security forces? why he wears no uniform like the other soldiers? these question have to be asked.

a couple of The Nation articles, specially the ones written by Thanong and some CRES announcements you can file under -> conspiracy theory.

but you speaks in riddles to me and it is unclear to me why you came up with Samak.

As A_Traveller points out, you are being disingenuous and fooling nobody.

The point that Insight was making was very clear. Royally sponsored bathing rights are not given to then be used as some sort of vindication of good character of the deceased. They are given in kindness and respect.

Yep, "Bathing rites are Royally Sponsored if the individual has specific rank [Military or Police] or Royal decorations [Civilian 'rank']." that is a clear point.

Did you read the article or just the headline? It wasn't just about the prayer rites under royal patronage but contained also a short profile/ fact file about Seh Deang.

Anyway: "not given to then be used as some sort of vindication of good character of the deceased" that implies or hint somehow that in your opinion and maybe in insights opinion too, Samak was same as Seh Deang not a "good character" at all. He could name many other deceased politicians, state officials or army generals. But why especially Samak, so i asked what is wrong with Samak. His assumed 'wrongdoings' could be probably compared with Suthep and Abhisits "right-doings"

A couple of propaganda meister argue here disingenuous. In one entry Samak is painted as some kind of dictator and blamed for the violence of october 76 and that is used as an example of 'red shirt ideology'. And in the next entry now the red are called communists and anti-monarchists. stupid black and white paintings.

'funny' to see that an one-liner like "One down one to go" as comment to an picture of Thaksin and Seh Deang is unproblematic in the eyes of the usual suspects, but a copypaste of an article from The Nation results into bully-the-messenger replies because some internet heroes don't like the content.

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

Could it be the men in WHITE that does the arson? and shooting in the Temple? They are not with the Army, just roam with them.

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

And it would be foollish NOT to have special forces out, because they would better know

how to deal with the EX. special forces hiding in the shadows arrayed against the army regulars.

Yes, it is so clever. just have special forces in plainclothes roaming through the streets, armed with assault rifles, fire around.

the nest way that the government can gather evidence about terrorists or blame unknown third parties if journalists or red cross nurses get killed in the process of enforcing law and order, M(ark)16 Abhisit style.

Anyway, what does are line like 'One down one to go' imply?

It certainly implies that Thaksin has some justice coming to him.

Not being serving military, it is unlikely to be military justice,

and not being on a field of battle and having 'specifically declared war' on the army,

it doesn't imply the same end as Seh Daeng got.

Not that we have any actual idea who took out Seh Daeng now do we?

Seh Deang was shot, murdered while given an interview to a reporter. probably by a sniper who hid somewhere in the dark.

no-one found guilty for it, so we don't know who it was, but you don't hesitate to call it 'justice'.

you must have a very distorted understanding of what 'justice' actually means.

animatic wrote:

"Shlmazeltop, just because he gets funeral honors as a 'still registered general in the army',

and for his past service to Thailand, doesn't in any way mean his current act

has been condoned by the highest chairas you imply. You also imply all is forgiven,

and that is hardly the case. And you are wrong this was on the forum already

over a week ago."

Where do i imply something? are you dreaming?

I just added some information about Seh Daeng because as usual some member of the board community know little, but are full of bias and prejudices based on gossip, rumours and false information.

And no, the article wasn't posted in the forum. I used the search engine before posting and didn't found the article here.

Anyway, what does are line like 'One down one to go' imply?

Samak also received bathing rights, as far as I recall...

And... What is the problem with Samak now?

It would help if you identified what your attempting to insinuate with the highlighting of that article...

sorry, i posted the news article for purpose to get informed, to add some content that consist of facts instead of ill-founded rumours, propaganda spin or lies.

but you speaks in riddles to me and it is unclear to me why you came up with Samak.

The Sae Daeng article HAS been talked to death here .... Mazeltov's attempt to drag other issues into his death is noted.

...

Really? When and where?

Can you give me a link to the discussion, i would like to read what other board members have written.

Thank you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-L...ot-t364824.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Seh-Daeng-Dead-t366041.html particularly http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Seh-Daeng-De...al#entry3616788 but not much discussion on the particular article Mazeltov posted.

thanks, i appreciate your efforts. I read these topics, but as you said, there isn't much discussion about this particular article, actually zero. Who knows where jdinasia saw this article 'talked to death'. my guess is that it didn't happen.

The Sae Daeng article HAS been talked to death here .... Mazeltov's attempt to drag other issues into his death is noted.

...

Really? When and where?

Can you give me a link to the discussion, i would like to read what other board members have written.

Thank you.

The reds were assisted by snipers and black-clad extremists with military training. This "Black Army" would hit the security forces from behind the lines.

Was the video clip below already discussed at the board? Sorry if yes, but was an explanation/ conclusion found what happen there?

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, a white shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.