kropotkin

Whats a Bar,

I do not know........ but who needs a bar when we have TV Forum?

But where is mr millie?

This forum would be a much more enjoyable place if nobody replied to trollposts of mr millie.

is wikileaks still banned ? no, this is not off topic........ wink wink

Conscription is - not only in thailand - part of a cunning conspiracy, organised by the Shoe Polish Mafia.

the purpose is to maintain a steady supply of cannon fodder.

Statistics are an amazing thing.

Let us asume that the statistics are correct.

Let us asume that the news paper report is correct.

The statistics could then be read as:

1. Swampy is number 5 in the world.

2. 30% of all airports are better, and 70% are worse.

Your choice!

Firstly,i apologise for talking about breaching european law.

A usefull remark to the OP, but yes, totally OFF TOPIC.

And it gave you the chance to change the subject..... but yes, i am responsibull for giving you that opportunity.

Now to answer your question to me, i will go OFF TOPIC again.

If the Op breaches thai law by not having the appropriate visa and WP, by not declaring the goods as for export, the OP will not have the paperwork (invoice) to declare the goods as business import in Europe.

And will breach european laws.

Off topic? I thought it would be relevant for the OP if he was considering exporting goods from Thailand.

You did say "If they do not have WP, they breach the laws of Thailand AND their home countries." which I thought meant that if you don't have a work permit you breach laws of your home country.

But, I'm still not clear if you answered the important question "Do you require a work permit to buy and export goods made in Thailand to sell in your home country?"

I suppose I will need someone else to confirm.

Surely, there will be an answer forthcoming from one of the mods that specialise in visa questions?

Many people confuse "capitalism" and "free market system".

Monopolies and oligopolies are capitalism too.

If in the real world, there would be such a thing as a "free market system", i would be all in favour of it.

"Free market" as defined by the original liberal economists such as Smith, Ricardo, Malthus.

Perfect competition, total transparentcy, free access to the markets, being the key words.

But there is no such thing.

So we have to live with an imperfect system, AND try to improve it.

Different economists have different views on how to improve the system.

In the end, society wants value for money, but how to achieve that?

In my opinion, communism is an outdated 19th century theory.

Capitalism however, is an outdated 18th century theory.

Let's keep searching........

Firstly,i apologise for talking about breaching european law.

A usefull remark to the OP, but yes, totally OFF TOPIC.

And it gave you the chance to change the subject..... but yes, i am responsibull for giving you that opportunity.

Now to answer your question to me, i will go OFF TOPIC again.

If the Op breaches thai law by not having the appropriate visa and WP, by not declaring the goods as for export, the OP will not have the paperwork (invoice) to declare the goods as business import in Europe.

And will breach european laws.

OK - i can only TRY to explain.

Must be something wrong with me.

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

What is criticized as "racial bias" is simply price discrimination practiced everywhere in the world to increase profits of the seller without regard or consideration of racial or gender bias. Price discrimination is the practice of charging different persons different prices for the same goods or services. In the US, price discrimination is illegal under the Sherman Antitrust Act. 15 U.S.C. §2, the Clayton Act, 15 U.S.C. §13, and by the Robinson-Patman Act, 15 U.S.C. §§13-13(, 21(a), when engaged in for the purpose of lessening competition, such as tying the lower prices to the purchase of other goods or services. But, merely charging different prices to different customers is not illegal, when there is no intent to harm competitors. And the reality is that it goes on continuously, everywhere.

In pure price discrimination, the seller will charge each customer the maximum price that he or she is willing to pay. In more common forms of price discrimination, the seller places customers in groups based on certain attributes that the seller believes reflect a higher willingness and/or ability to pay for the seller's product and charges each group so identified a different price.

Price discrimination allows the seller to earn higher profits than standard pricing because it allows firms to capture every last dollar of revenue available from each of its customers. Additionally, the seller in a market where this type of discrimination is practiced must be capable of differentiating between consumer classes, and preventing sales between the customer classes. Hence, services are frequently seen as the markets where price discrimination is most prevalent. For example, movie theaters usually charge three different prices for a show. The prices target various age groups, including youth, adults and seniors. The prices differ with the expected income of each age bracket, with the highest price charged going to the "normal" adult population. Lawyers typically charge businesses more for the same service than they charge individuals because businesses are preceived to be less price sensitive.

In price discrimination, price varies by attributes such as location or by characteristics of the customer segment, or in the most extreme case, by an individual customer's identity; where the attribute in question is used as a proxy for ability/willingness to pay. Thus, the seller sets a lower price for that consumer because the student or senior has a more price sensitivity (due to lower income). The supplier is capable of capturing more sales revenue and profit than would be possible without price discrimination.

But buyers do not advertise their willingness or ability to pay – no one comes to the store with a sign stuck on their forehead saying "charge me more, I'll pay it". Sellers look for ways to "identify" higher income or higher demand buyers. Airlines, for example, use several different types of price discrimination, such as requiring advance purchase and/or Saturday stays for cheaper tickets, because such restrictions have the effect of excluding business travelers from purchasing the cheaper ticlets, who typically travel during the work-week and arrange trips on shorter notice. In Thailand, Tourists and foreigners generally have a higher income than local Thais (now there's a surprise!!) and pricing the two groups differently will tend to increase sales revenues and profits. It is discrimination on race? Absolutely not. It is discrimination on income and ability to pay, which is "measured" by ethnicity, in the same way that it can be measured by age or status as a student or requiring a Saturday night stay.

Many years ago, in the US, I had a flat tire in my old Nissan. I took it to the local garage and was charged $2.50 to plug the hole. By sheer coincidence, my ex-wife had a flat in her late model Mercedes the following week. I took the tire to the same shop, and was charged $5.00 for the same repair. When I told the mechanic I had been charged $2.50 for the same repair last week, he immediately lowered the price. Was this discrimination based on my race or gender? Was I an "insider" last week and an "outsider" now? Of course not. Drivers of new Mercedes are seen by sellers as having more income and a higher ability to pay than drivers of old Nissans, and are charged accordingly. And the Thai driver of a new Mercedes will in many instances be charged more than another Thai driving a 20 year old Toyota Corolla – does that make him an "outsider"? I always try to get a price for a home repair before the worker sees my house so that my house cannot be factored into my ability to pay – easier said than done.

You can try to make this into a political/social issue, but the reality is it is not. It is pure economics, as it is practiced everywhere in the world (not that every seller of every product can engage in price discrimination). Ian's exactly right. Grow up and get used to it, and stop looking for a villainous motive behind every act that you dislike. I don't like price discrimination either, but I am not offended by it.

And to Gregb, the reality is that, as a farang, you are not and never will be an "insider" in Thai society – get used to that also. But that is an entirely different issue, and has nothing to do with your being perceived by sellers as having the capability (i.e., income) to pay more than a Thai.

As an ex macro economics professor, i have to agree 100% with you.

As far as economics are concerned.

But what about the moral side?

You go to a hospital, and will be charged more or less on the basis of the pain that you suffer?

You go to a bar, and will be charged more or less, depending on how thursty you are?

And before you ask, no, i did not teach economics in Havana.

Do you need a work permit if you are buying things to export? Or would you just need non-imm visa of some sort (besides a Ed visa)?

After 3.561 posts, you come up with this question?

Please tell me you are joking or trolling or fighting an extreme hangover.

None of the above. I'm just not up with all of the answers to visa and work permit questions.

I thought it was a valid question. Is buying something considered work?

No, tourists are free to buy chang, sex, clothes, etc.

However, tourists need a work permit to sell chang, sex, clothes, etc.

You are allowed to visit Thailand with a non-imm visa to look at business opportunities with out a work permit.

A lot of foreigners go to the Pratunam area (for example) to buy bulk clothes to sell them in their home countries. Do all of these people have or need work permits?

If they do not have WP, they breach the laws of Thailand AND their home countries.

And good luck with customs at Swampy or in your home country, if they catch you with 10.000 pairs of underware.... just souvenirs from my thai gf's sir / just gifts for my european gf's sir.....

And it is something that I don't think the OP has thought to ask.

Do you need a work permit if you are buying things to export? Or would you just need non-imm visa of some sort (besides a Ed visa)?

After 3.561 posts, you come up with this question?

Please tell me you are joking or trolling or fighting an extreme hangover.

And please do remember that the purpose of an ED visa is TO STUDY - actually studying thai would be very usefull for a future exporter.

Some people seem to think that the purpose of an ED visa is to stay long term in Thailand.

I just donated 100 baht to a thai immigration officer......

She did not ask for money.

And maybe my donation was not PC.

But the lady was nice to me, well, let us say that after being ripped off by capt Min Sovuth of the Khmer immigration at Ban Pakat, her (FREE) helpfullness felt like she was giving me "value for money".

Giving a 100 baht tip to a decent thai immigration officer nearly offsets the bad feelings of being robbed of 450 baht by a khmer officer.....

Not to mention the fact that a "helpfull" thai that gave the impression of being an immigration official, tried to rob me of 600 baht.

I just go along with whatever makes me and my family happy.

Catch a buzz, sit on the floor, listen to the chants. Makes people feel good.

Convert, nothing to convert from, and I am way to lazy to suddenly become passionate about something.

Ditto, nicely put,

me me me me me me...........

buddhist are we ?

Where do you get this from?

You need to get your medication right.

Your so busy googling what everyone is talking about, that you can't comprehend.

Read again, slowly, out loud if need be.

Nothing to convert from...

Now I understand your still tender from when I told you to <deleted> in another thread.

You'll be OK, it happens.

I understand your alone, out in the sticks, with your self-immposed removal from the society you chose to live in.

I understand that your society and interactions with humans now consists of you creeping around TV, and arguing with people.

What I can't understand is your open hatred.

ssssssssshhhht.... the mods might take offence and ban you.

Normal wages for a full time unskilled job are 6.000.

I am talking Baht.

I am talking per month.

And most of those jobs offer free accomodation and meals inluded so that is 'disposable income'.....otherwise jobs pay a few grand more than that.

Free meals and accomodation on top of 6.000 for unskilled labour?

Never heard that one before.

Anyone that can confirm this?

I am back.

After a retreat in the bushes.

I have now seen the light.

Mrs drible is an alias of Moony.

Well done Moony, you beat me.

And this ia a real true story.

In my hometown in Belgium, locals pay less or even nothing for musea and busses.

Racism?

No.

My thai wife is considered to be a local, since she (sometimes) lives there.

This is an (almost) true story.

Thaksin, Abhisit and i went to a national park.

Observe, i am politically neutral.

Guess who paid more to get in?

Based on the capitalist mantra "take what you can"?

Based on blatant racism?

I've been lying all along.

I'm really believe in the church of the Sith

That is not true Moonyboy.

I know for a fact that you never lie.

I believe in universal values.

hehehe "believe" is probably not the right word....

and it is difficult to be sure what those values are, even in our own culture - and very difficult in different cultures.

but there are universal values that i try to uphold, where ever i am.

i am not saying that i am good at upholding those values.

but i try.

i try in thailand, just like i try in europe.

i do not accept the "it is their culture" nonsense.

In the sixties we changed the european culture.

we stopped a war.

we stopped sexism.

we stopped bullying by european hiso and church..

ok, not for 100%,.....

but we achieved much.

that is why the thai elite does not want us here.

End of rant.....

No way... No way...

So crazy i no Way'd it twice!

I am assuming that you have had a few Changs by now.

i do not accept the "it is their culture" nonsense.

But it IS their culture, and any other culture just because it is different, is not a justification for being 'nonsense',

Then why do you have such extreme views about muslims?

In the sixties we changed the european culture.

Who changed the European culture?.. You?? or was it the migrants from all over the world coming to take the menial jobs and mix in with the Europeans while maintaining and spreading their own mixed bag of cultures? So who exactly are 'we' in this amazing feat?

we stopped a war.

Who stopped a war?.. you? and who else?... What war did you stop?... Britain has been involved in several wars since the sixties, as a matter of fact we were still entrenched in the Suez Crisis till the late sixties, then there was the Falklands, The gulf War, desert fox, Kosovo, Croatia and Bosnia then Afghanistan and Iraq... As a matter of fact... Britain has probably been in conflict with more nations than any other country in the world 'Since the Sixties'.

WE refers to the generation of the sixties, and yes, we stopped a war not too far from here, remember? Obviously, even more credit goes to the heroic peoples of SE Asia....

we stopped sexism.

How nice of you... Since women's lib kicked into full force in the late 60s the divorce rate in Britain went from 23,000 a year in 1968 to 160,000 a year in 1998. All those broken homes and upset kids. Just goes to show the opposite sexes do not get on as much as they did before that little movement. Also, we have not stopped sexism at all... That is a right crock of s**t...We have just hidden it. Employers will still employ who they think is best for the job no matter what the gender, guys still talk about women in the pub in a sexist way, they just don't do it in front of women now, because the women protest.

Not sure what your point is.

we stopped bullying by european hiso and church..

This is very confusing to me... I can't answer that one, i don't have a clue what it means.... If you mean Eurocrat bullies, then i think you need to do a bit of reading on that subject, because britain and the rest of Europe bend over every day to be shafted by Brussels... every day, someone gets one up them from European parliament. In the last 50 years I have never seen so much damage done to a continent. The heart is being ripped out of the people in the name of so called equality and human rights. The laws are being rewritten daily and enforced in such a way that people are being put in prison for saying something about Islam or whatever, and being robbed o0f freedom of speech a constitutional right of everyone... not in Europe it isn't... Say the wrong thing about a minority or Islam, and 'kerchink'.. locked up as a warning to everyone not to upset the very people who rant hatred about us and our culture with the full protection of Brussels and the British government.

I mean the european hiso, why do you bring up the EU? and Islam?

but we achieved much.

Yep... There is that 'WE' word again.. who is this we?... in Europe we have achieved nothing of the sort. The continent has opened up to a particularly brutal influence. One where hatred for our culture is spouted in the streets and in the mosques daily. Sharia law has been passed in Britain and there are now around 150 sharia courts dealing with civil matters, but its a start. A law set by a code of hate of everything non-Islamic... which in itself is a stoneage religion, and a poison to everything good and fair and equal... a law that put man on top and women below dog status, a law that wants all gays dead, and any woman stoned to death for having a private life.... Oh I know its only civil cases, but it is a start and it is spreading, and all this because we don't want to harm their 'human rights', and that we have to understand and agree with their culture... Human rights??? Sexism??? .. just like Condell said.. its like giving the fox the keys to the henhouse...

Muslims again?

We achieved much, but not enough.

Because we were naive and idealistic, and because the people in power decided to rather burst then to give in.

They did burst, but took part of society with them.

They managed to stop the new values from becoming general rule, while the old outdated values disappeared, leaving us with the valueless society we have now.

The only thing that everyone in Europe is wondering, is which European country is going to be the first Islamic state???... Britain?.. Denmark?.. Netherlands?..Sweden?

Whichever one it is, it will be the first to slip back into the stone age with the death penalty being dished out to kids, women who have an affair, and are third class citizens and considered dirty by law. Where you will be executed for speaking against Alla...

If you think we are moving forwards in progress, you think again!!... we are slipping backwards to where we were 1000 years ago...

that is why the thai elite does not want us here.

The only thing i agree with you on.... Because they are comfortable with their non - violent religion, and they are in fact developing and at the same time watching the place where you lot come from and thinking to themselves... "we don't want that farang culture here".. No way!!!.... No way!!!!

By the way you mentioned European hiso... did you know hiso is a term that originated in Bangkok to mean High Society, so there you go, you are absorbing a bit of Thai culture and applying it to Europe... So I will remind you of the title of the thread... naaa, I won't actually

Yes i know where hiso comes from, i am multicultural and use that word often.

End of rant!

May I join your list of heroes Jingthing? The vendor of the rai we built our house on has another rai adjacent which I did not think to buy when we originally bought the building plot. A year or so later we had an on and off negotiation over the price of the adjacent plot. We ended up close but he said he wanted 5,000 more 'because I was a falang'. I threw my toys out of the pram and said under no circumstances would I ever buy the land from such a stupid racist (to my wife, not to him). My wife said - let my mum buy it at 5,000 less and she can sell it to us. I said - 'no, it's theprinciple'. The next day the family bless em started to build the wall around our rai as if to emphasise our stand.

Pity really, we could have made a lovely job out of the extra rai and I now feel foolish having been so pig-headed . What the hell was 5,000 baht more on top of 300,000? Silly boy - sometimes I wish I was pragmatic not principled.

You did the right thing.

But would it not have been great to have the family negotiate an even lower price (on your behalf), and then to throw that into the face of that racist ignorant pig?

I just go along with whatever makes me and my family happy.

Catch a buzz, sit on the floor, listen to the chants. Makes people feel good.

Convert, nothing to convert from, and I am way to lazy to suddenly become passionate about something.

Ditto, nicely put,

me me me me me me...........

buddhist are we ?