catweazle

I'm really surprised at the level of hatred here.

There is no such a thing as justice in case of murders and the illusion of it (eye for an eye) only leads to even more human suffering. Don't tell me the "US Justice System" is about justice, it's just about revenge and inflicting hurt on people who have hurt others.

And yes - the Norwegian prison system (which is fantastically successful both at results and costs) are just about two things:

• Protecting society from offenders if they're dangerous
  
• Rehabilitating the offenders and making sure they become safe and productive members of society, facilitating release after the mandatory part of the sentence is finished
  

We don't punish people here because the primal sense of revenge humans have. When we punish people by taking away basic human rights, we do it because we have to and would like to do so for a short a period of time as possible instead of gleefully legally torturing them for the enjoyment of the masses.

If YOUR daughter has her brains spread over the scenery then come back here with the same post.

@V8 - nothing more to add to that, well said!

Where the <Snip!> is Dexter when we really need him???

Despite of the fact that the whole Utoya story is very fishy with a lot of unanswered questions, i.e. second and perhaps third killer, anti-terror maneuvers pretending very similar scenarios (car bomb/shooter on the loose) that ended just two hours before Breivik started bombing and shooting... it is unbelievable that 77 killed people are worth only 21 years in prison to a "western" and "civilized" court... I am lost for words.

On the other hand, there is a crazy witch hunt going on to catch and most likely kill Julian Assange, whistleblower on secret societies, shadow governments, conspiracies, etc. who seemed to have stumbled into a honeypot trap. The Brits even threated to raid the Equadorian embassy to get their hands on him, most likely with the goal to kill him in the quarrel or ship him to Guantanamo Bay - or to in the softest scenario - hand him a life sentence in the US...

Talkin about shooting sparrows with a cannon... while a mass murderer gets 21 years of free food and accommodation in a cozy Norway prison, where as far as I know a whole area has been built especially to accommodate Breivik.

Sit down, take some Prozac and read this:

Inside the World's Most Humane Prison

Anders Behring Breivik, the man accused of the July 22 killing spree and bomb attack, could be sent to Halden, a Norwegian high-security prison that aims to rehabilitate criminals with comfortable and thoroughly modern facilities.

Work of Art

To ease the psychological burdens of imprisonment, the planners at Halden spent roughly $1 million on paintings, photography and light installations. According to a prison informational pamphlet, this mural by Norwegian graffiti artist Dolk "brings a touch of humor to a rather controlled space." Officials hope the art — along with creative outlets like drawing classes and wood workshops — will give inmates "a sense of being taken seriously." Photo taken 2010.

The Outside In

The maximum sentence in Norway, even for murder, is 21 years. Since most inmates will eventually return to society, prisons mimic the outside world as much as possible to prepare them for freedom. At Halden, rooms include en-suite bathrooms with ceramic tiles, mini-fridges and flat-screen TVs. Officials say sleeker televisions afford inmates less space to hide drugs and other contraband. Photo taken 2010.

Meanwhile in the real world, the newspaper that we can't link to already has ALL the details that people have been asking for, including current levels and new levels, in a clearly laid out article.

Is it the newspaper with him, who not should be named, errr I mean the guy who goes berzerk when someone misspells his name?

A post with links about homebrewing has been removed as homebrewing of alcohol is illegal:

We have all seen Thais drinking their homemade rice wine at weddings or while relaxing in the countryside and the ubiquitous Bangkok corner side or rolling cart Yaa Dong sellers with containers of some concoction of herbs like ginseng, plaonoi, tree bark and vodka or whiskey. That is why expats and Thai nationals are always shocked when they find out that it is illegal to produce and/or sell alcohol in Thailand without a license. The Thai Government authorizes local governments to regulate alcohol production and sale under the Health Code. Local Government Rules 112 Section 58 NDOR, enacted 20^th of July 1995, ‡15 provides that individuals cannot produce or sell alcohol without a license from the Thai Government. There is no exception in the law for personal consumption. While the law is obviously not enforced with any vigor in Thailand it is still against the law and those that engage in such activity are always in jeopardy of being caught.

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry3851270

so sad!

how about glue sniffing then?

A post with links about homebrewing has been removed as homebrewing of alcohol is illegal:

We have all seen Thais drinking their homemade rice wine at weddings or while relaxing in the countryside and the ubiquitous Bangkok corner side or rolling cart Yaa Dong sellers with containers of some concoction of herbs like ginseng, plaonoi, tree bark and vodka or whiskey. That is why expats and Thai nationals are always shocked when they find out that it is illegal to produce and/or sell alcohol in Thailand without a license. The Thai Government authorizes local governments to regulate alcohol production and sale under the Health Code. Local Government Rules 112 Section 58 NDOR, enacted 20^th of July 1995, ‡15 provides that individuals cannot produce or sell alcohol without a license from the Thai Government. There is no exception in the law for personal consumption. While the law is obviously not enforced with any vigor in Thailand it is still against the law and those that engage in such activity are always in jeopardy of being caught.

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry3851270

so sad!

Amanda Lear looks like a man pretending to be woman to me.

come again?

A heterosexual male who likes to wear women's clothing is not a LB (or gay).

<p>That would be referred to as a crossdresser and I would agree if anyone says that intercourse with a crossdresser is gay, because it is. Doing it with an LB is a completely different story, even though there might be a gray zone as I f

no idea what happened here - got cut off... grey zone because I feel that there also is a faor amount of Thai cross dressers out there mixing with the ladyboys to make a quick buck at night. They of course are counterproductive to the genuine ladyboy community since most of them are damaged goods to put it mildly...

A heterosexual male who likes to wear women's clothing is not a LB (or gay).

<p>That would be referred to as a crossdresser and I would agree if anyone says that intercourse with a crossdresser is gay, because it is. Doing it with an LB is a completely different story, even though there might be a gray zone as I f

Btw... everyone who liked Amanda Lear ("Follow me") back in 1976 must have been gay then as well, according to the "gaysayers"?

catweazal

sorry you thought my question was dumb ,but as dumb questions go its generated over 19000 views in a day and and 500 replies ,and to cap it you viewed it AND replied,so

Yes, correct Mr. Einstein-Surgeon - as I wrote in my reply "we all participated"... However, congratulations for stirring up a hornet's nest here with your (dumb or not dumb does not matter) question. We have a nice discussion going with gaysayers vs. naysayers and it gets more interesting by the hour... Well done!

Bye bye Thailand, its been fun but over the last 2 years about the only that hasn't increased is my pay packet.....

Another expat, that are here for all the right reasons You will be sadly missed by your friends outside 7-eleven. Have a safe Aeroflot flight back home!

Looks like this tax increase sorts the wheat from the chaff... if so - well done Thailand !

Excellent, the price of alcohol can't be high enough. It's one of the most dangerous drugs in the world, it causes death and mayhem in traffic, spousal abuse and all sorts of aggression. In another thread: "Drunken Swede kills tourist from New Zealand". I am convinced he would not have killed that guy if he were sober!

Who kill most people drunks or sober people?

Sober American soldiers would be the winners here I believe...

Why does Thai law allow bar keepers to continue to sell alcohol to customers that are Drunk?

This is a trick question, right?

Wow! I always believed that people go to a bar to GET drunk... Yupp, this must be a trick question, and I believe the correct answer to it will shed light on all mysteries of the universe...

R.I.P. Robert, and sincerest condolences to family and friends.

Kudos to the locals who caught the Swede and brought him to justice. Just hope that justice is served and the backstabbing Swede will rot in Bangkok Hilton until his dim light is blown out..

This thread has got me thinking about a few similar questions...

Can coming to Thailand make you shorter?

Can going to Brazil make you better looking?

Can going to Australia make you a kangaroo?

Can going to France make you a frog?

Can visiting kindergarten make you young again?

Can going to a National Park make you a tree?

Can looking through a telescope transport you into outer space?

Can reading history textbooks send you to medieval times?

Can reading the bible make you become god?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

I

This thread has got me thinking about a few similar questions...

Can coming to Thailand make you shorter?

Can going to Brazil make you better looking?

Can going to Australia make you a kangaroo?

Can going to France make you a frog?

Can visiting kindergarten make you young again?

Can going to a National Park make you a tree?

Can looking through a telescope transport you into outer space?

Can reading history textbooks send you to medieval times?

Can reading the bible make you become god?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

like this post very much! While everyone got lost in fighting about whether it is gay or not to have intercourse with a transsexual, we seem to have missed looking at the actual question which - and I believe many will agree - is downright stupid. A simple NO! would have done the trick. One of the dumbest questions ever asked in this forum reels in over 500 replies...

Is it a mirror of our society? I believe, yes! We live in a world and in a society where an "artist" without talent becomes a popstar; where a warmonger and liar receives the Nobel peace price; where exhibiting even the most intimate details of our life online for everyone to see becomes "cult"; and where the dumbest question reels in the most replies... I find that rather frightening - and we all participated and many here had a go at each other while completely steering off course, ignoring the actual question...

Just think about it.

if you want to sleep with a lady boy, who in fact is a man you are gay,

SIMPLE

@pigeonjake:

denial can be a terrible thing, ignorance as well - your comment is a slap in the face to all who tried to explain the difference, grey zone and implications of this topic.

The sheer amount of posts commenting this topic should already ring a bell or two - looks like we have opened a Pandora's Box here...

Ladyboys are boys, they have nothing feminine, nothing a woman has.

Guys being sexually attracted to ladyboys are either gay or bisexual. Simple as that, and nothing to be ashamed of.

You must be either legally blind or you've never been to Thailand.

Well said, Tropo!

Just my two cents here: A very good friend of mine whom I know for decades is into girls AND ladyboys, but absolutely hates the idea of having sex with a man. He really gets angry if anyone calls him "gay" and he absolutely avoids go-go bars where gay boys dance!

Puzzled as I was he tried to describe that ladyboy thing to me - and even though I find it hard to swallow, he said something like this: The attractive outer female appearance, choice of clothing and the mostly exaggerated female behaviour and often much better [better than a girl's] body shape combined with the "little surprize" and a ladyboys much better general understanding of what men really want just arouses him... This explanation might sound "stiff" because it is to be used in this forum and should not offend anyone, but I can't really find other words since his version was more "graphic" if you know what I mean...

In our many years of friendship, we have been out together to party the night away countless times while at times he opted for girls and at other days went for a "Kathoey" (ladyboy). What I can say clearly here is that he is definitely not gay and I really doubt that he would agree if anyone calls him bisexual.

I believe that the official word for lovers of this third gender (transsexual) yet needs to be invented. Homosexual and Bisexual won't work. Perhaps some forum members can help...

<p>

Finding silicone implants neither defines the person as transgender, nor female; does it?

Is it the heat - or is the general iQ here now simply following the downward spiral movements of the stock market? Silicone implants UNDER THE BREASTS - who else but a transgender or female person would carry silicone implants UNDER THE BREASTS??? Batman? Cherry Potter? Frankenstein???

To be fair to non-English speakers, what was probably meant is that finding silicone implants 'alone' is not enough to imply either transgender or female. Keep in mind that 'just having implants' doesn't make one trans-whatever. That (i.e. transgender) may be just a state of mind which cannot be determined from the horribly scarred remains.

Yes, but the text clearly stated - under the breats - and who else except a female or a male person who wants to appear like a woman (transsexual male) would wear breast implants? In any case - it neither matters, nor does it help the general discussion here, I know that - so point taken.

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Because the majority of Thai men are spoilt pampered little brats who get away with anything when they are children so they grow up thinking they can get away with everything when adults.Mind you I use the term adult very loosely as most of them have the maturity of a 5 year old.

I have to take issue with both these points. FIrstly, I very much doubt that you will hear middle /upper class Thais tell a farang how weak Thai men are. we all know the bargirl / farm girl think "thai man no good....blah blah". Also it's not really a matter of weakness but rather just bad morals, lack of ethics and irresponsibility. Where is your evidence to suggest that women display greater social responsibility and better morals? Many a lady landlord has tried to screw me over on a rent deposit.

Secondly, with probably more than 50% of the population living in relative poverty it seems hard to swallow the view that most of the boys are spoiled brats. In the middle and upper classes this maybe a valid point but these make up a small amount of the population.

Would be nice if people would give some evidence or at least try to justify their stance before making sweeping generalisations

R.I.P. to the victim and condolences to family and friends.

Lots of jumping to conclusions, bashing, mobbing, making generalizations and conspiring again also with this topic... Only good point was the one about the bad location of the "captain's" seat which is a sad but true fact. Living here for 21 years and having spent a fair share of this time actively in the diving industry, I can just say that in addition to the technical flaws of those Thai speedoats come points like negligence, carelessness, ignorance, plain stupidity, lack of proper training in handling and seamanship, as well as Macho behaviour of the (mostly) too young speedboat "captains". By experience I can say that most of them just give a rat's #$$ about the boat, the engines, safety or anything or anyone floating in the water. Ruining engines and gearboxes by going full throttle with a still cold engine is the most common "skill". To stay fair I must say that I also have had as employees and have worked with very good and responsible captains.

Hit and run is another story. To me it appears to be almost "chic" in Thailand to run away first and perhaps show up at a police station of choice at some later time (when alcohol and drugs have conveniently left the system)... As far as I can see, there are no extra punishments handed down here in Thailand for hit and runs, even if the official Thai law should state otherwise. I doubt that this will ever change what actually is rather sad, or better - embarrassing.

The spoiled brat comment however is something I won't buy and strongly agree to alboy666's words here... In my 21 years here I have met a lot of Thai men who proved themselves as hard working and honest people, proper family fathers and real good and reliable friends. Generalizations did not help any forum discussion I ever witnessed so far. Pointing fingers didn't either.

Advise I can give to touristing swimmers and snorkellers is to stay as close to shore and reefs as possible to minimize the chance that a speedboat or waterscooter will get dangerously close. I also don't believe that markers and buoy lines work - saw just too many times water scooters and speedboats (with the engine lifted to prevent the propeller from cutting the live) simply ignoring such boundaries to get from A to B in shortest possible time or simply out of pure ignorance.

As I mentioned earlier - life is dangerous (all over the world). Thus make every day count and live life to the fullest.

Another tourist die in Phuket? When the Embassies will publish advisories so that the local authorities are forced to apply the law. Tourist are dying more in Phuket than in any place in the world including Irak or Afganistan (1 French soldier died in Afganistan this last 5 years and it made the top news).

(Nikko at http://fb/gopattaya)

Even though Phi-Phi starts with a P as well, but the scene of the accident was NOT Phuket... Looking at your URL you seem to be located or at least are a keen admirer of Pattaya and my impression is (also given the intellectual vacuums of this and your previously posted messages) that all you gonna do in this forum is to do some senseless Phuket bashing... Guess we have enough out here to do that job (and with better content), so why not post anything helpful instead?

Another tourist die in Phuket? When the Embassies will publish advisories so that the local authorities are forced to apply the law. Tourist are dying more in Phuket than in any place in the world including Irak or Afganistan (1 French soldier died in Afganistan this last 5 years and it made the top news).

(Nikko at http://fb/gopattaya)

Even though Phi-Phi starts with a P as well, but the scene of the accident was NOT Phuket... Looking at your URL you seem to be located or at least are a keen admirer of Pattaya and my impression is (also given the intellectual vacuums of this and your previously posted messages) that all you gonna do in this forum is to do some senseless Phuket bashing... Guess we have enough out here to do that job (and with better content), so why not post anything helpful instead?

Police believe at least one of the victims was female or a transgender person as they found silicone implants under the breasts.

So Police have narrowed the victim down to be either a man or a woman. Genius.

It may be convenient to make such comments, but it's not correct, because after the surgery, a transgender (male > female) is a (sterile or infertile) female for medical and legal reasons..

Finding silicone implants neither defines the person as transgender, nor female; does it?

Is it the heat - or is the general iQ here now simply following the downward spiral movements of the stock market? Silicone implants UNDER THE BREASTS - who else but a transgender or female person would carry silicone implants UNDER THE BREASTS??? Batman? Cherry Potter? Frankenstein???

What a plethora of nonsense has been posted regarding this topic - we even got a conspiracy theory about victims being smuggled out to keep the official death toll down? Wow - looks like a few forum members need some days off at a very good spa or better see a shrink...