Steely Dan

Actually, I'm amazed Assad hasn't blamed the demonstrations on a Zionist plot seeing as a Mossad agent once got close to the Syrian defence minister.

Yes this is a disgusting invasion of privacy, humiliating and a breach of human rights, I daresay the female protesters may have represented a cross section of Egyptian society too. But...

If the Muslim brotherhood form the next government and implement Sharia law then I can't imagine women feeling liberated by democracy, unless of course they are suffering from some sort of faith induced Stockholm syndrome.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nina-burleigh/egypt-and-the-universal-r_b_819178.html

Pakistan was 'modern'. And the people who idiotically believed that, allowed them to develop advanced nuclear capability. Now they're killing those who 'blaspheme', They're killing governors who speak out against killing those who blaspheme. They'd kill you, if they could. They likely wouldn't kill your wife and daughter, at least not straight away.

Let's save them from Gadaffi's law and order. We have Escalades that are thirsty.

The lunatics control the asylum. But then, I guess they always have.

Yes, better the despot you know than some religious extremist nutcase you don't. Despots understand borders fundamentalist Islam recognises no borders, both cases are a human rights disaster, but the fallout from the second scenario is so much less predictable. If there is a telltale indicator that all is not as it seems take the case of the Burqa which the U.S and U.K governments lack the stomach to ban, whilst various middle eastern states such as Turkey, Tunisia and Egypt have. The liberals have really opened up Pandora's box in chancing that liberal democracies will emerge out of a power vaccuum, still it makes interesting viewing seeing the moral gymnastics the BBC engages in to justify our presence.

A diplomat breaking the official secrets act, repremanded for being drunk at work and leaving his first wife for a belly dancer he met at a Tashkent nightclub.

I at least commented on his suspect commentary and left others to check the link if curious, but you are improving, I can find no holocaust denial or 9/11 conspiracy claims in his C.V

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

You don't half pick em. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray

So he complains of press bias as Palestinian deaths supposedly received less coverage than Israeli ones. Well that would make a rare change, perhaps it had something to do with the fact that civilians were deliberately targeted here but were not by the Israelis who were afterall retaliating. You don't get any moral equivalence by deathtoll especially when one side uses human shields.

P.S I can see no such 'bias' with the Thaivisa forum seeing as the deaths of 15 protesters in Syria condemned by the U.N receives no comment whatsoever.

It saves them the embarassment of proving what everyone already suspects, namely that they are now just a fringe group of ultra-nationalists long past their sell by date.

So let's get back to the topic in question.

http://www.debka.com/article/20793/

debkafile's counter-terror sources report that the attack was professionally executed by a team of three to five with local aid from East Jerusalem Palestinians. While the authorities have reassured the city that it was a one-off attack, intelligence and terror experts are certain a terrorist organization activated trained bombers and may do so again.

Where for art thou peacenics? Had Israel done the same the thread would be pages long by now?

So where's the flurry of posts from the 'liberals' (sic) comndemning an Arab despot murdering his own people?

Jingthing,

yesterday i was on the verge of commending you for your rather rational stance and postings. today you missed the mark. may i draw your intention to the roots from which "radical fundamentalist Islamists" got the idea to murder homosexuals? not that it matters in a thread which should be confined to discuss a bomb blast which killed innocent people.

Yes they lifted some of the most tolerant contemporary practices from the Christian crusaders and Spanish Inquisition. They didn't stop there though, Apostates, adulterers and Jews are murdered just for being add to that judicial amputation, floggings, stonings, honour killings, suicide bombers and female circumcision.

I bet I've gone and done it now and you'll be disappointed in me too.

I condemn such ridiculous false propaganda.

According to The Economist,25.2% of Palestinian men are obese

42.5% of Palestinian women are obese

Does my bomb look big in this?

Israeli authorities spokesperson says they are looking for a single person in connection with this explosion. Largely unrelated turmoil in the middle east! Come on. Of course an explosion that maims and kills innocent people anywhere is reprehensible. And i condemn it. Yesterday a grandfather and his four grandchildren were murdered by Israeli planes bombing civilian areas in the Gaza strip concentration camp. I condemn that too. Last week forty children collecting firewood in Afghanistan were killed by an unmanned American drone. I also condemn that. How about you Steely Dan?

Firstly Gaza must be the first ever concentration camp with it's own shopping mall and university - ridiculous hyperbole does not a case make.

Secondly the turmoil in the middle east is largely a manifestation of lack of democratic freedoms, economic hardship and a variety of issues some unique to each locality. It is preposterous to imply Israel is the root cause of all this unrest, though I expect various hate mongers will give it a try.

Thirdly, Of course I condemn all civilian casualties but the Palestinian terrorists have a habit of systematically using civilians as human shields or coopts them as military personnel so they not the Israelis are responsible for the lions share of Palestinian casualties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv74x2Eh2Bs

Sadly I expected the Palestinian terrorists would attempt to escalate things in an attempt to conjoin their cause with the largely unrelated turmoil in the wider middle east. I'm too young to remember 1967, but sadly I get the impression we are heading towards war, a feeling reinforced by the recent flare up in internet jihadist activity.

Oh, the armchair CSI team already found the culprit.

Let's wait for either Hamas or Al Aqsa to claim responsibility so you can deny their involvement shall we.

Sadly I expected the Palestinian terrorists would attempt to escalate things in an attempt to conjoin their cause with the largely unrelated turmoil in the wider middle east. I'm too young to remember 1967, but sadly I get the impression we are heading towards war, a feeling reinforced by the recent flare up in internet jihadist activity.

Considering the chaos that reigns throughout North Africa right now, I am convinced

Israel actually wants to start WW3

Yes a Country with a land mass 1/700th of the entire middle east de-stabilized the whole region, how convenient.

Tell me was it the Mossad shark or spy vulture which finally did the trick?

very interesting psycholigical analysis of Gaddafi that somehow applies also to many other leaders.

thats fringe science.

It applies much to the lunatic fringe, which the region seems almost uniquely blessed by.

I also like Hitchens. He clearly supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. He questions why Jewish Israel came to be in the first place. That's reasonable to do from an academic point of view, but doesn't mean there is any justification to destroy it now. Both Palestinians AND Jews have historical claims on those lands and contrary to Arab propaganda, not all of the Jewish claims are ancient. How to settle this now? I think two sovereign states.

Jingthing,

That has been tried and their borders would have been defined in 1948, however as an earlier post I made explained the facts on the ground have moved on considerably since then due mainly to Arab/Palestinian refusal to recognise Israel, but also in part due to intransigence on both sides. I agree the Palestinians should have a state but in my oppinion their collective recognition of Israel is a pre-requisite and then the horse trading over details could begin.

The bottom line is that a de-radicalisation of the Arab world needs to happen before any of this is possible and religious extremism of all flavours is on the rise so the time in my view is just not right.

Christopher Hitchens is for sure not a Zionist, is he an ultra-orthodox Jew?

Well I bet he would classify as Islamophobic by your criteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens

I hold him in very high regard as he started out left wing and instinctively saw there that something stank with liberal political correctness and appeasement of Islamofascists.

To be clear, even the vast majority of ultra orthodox Jews ARE also Zionists, in the broad sense of supporting the existence of the Jewish state of Israel. It's easy to say Jews don't equal Zionists because it is true that not all Jews are Zionists, but over 90 percent of global Jews do support the existence of Jewish Israel, so overall the close connection between Jews and Zionism is undeniable.

Thankyou for the clarification. Yes agreed. A minority of ultra orthodox Jews and a few extreme left wing mavericks would not be classified as Zionists, these are acceptable to BKKEddie as they agree with his own prejudiced agenda.

I answered that question more than often.

I even used your beloved Christopher Hitchens as a reference.

I would agree with Christopher Hitchens in so much as no religious justification should be the basis for a state and if the Jews are able to live in Israel then the Palestinians should equally have the right to live in Palestine. There is a huge difference between principle and practice though. Starting with the birth of Israel in 1948 it came out of a decision to partition the land between Jews and Palestinians so they could both have their own states. The Jews agreed and the Palestinians did not, which resulted in war. Since then there have been no fewer than four wars resulting in more Palestinians leaving and more Jews arriving, contributed to considerably by those evicted from Arab lands.

Not Jews, it were Zionists. Zionists agreed in colonialist map making of 1948.

People and states in the region were against it.

In effect the only Jews who were not Zionists by your criteria were the ultra-orthodox Jews who had been living there for centuries and who disagree with the state of Israel being formed before the coming of the Messiah. It is very clear where this is leading though, you do not believe Israel has the right to exist which aligns you with Hamas and ironically ultra-orthodox Jews.

By the way your beloved UN voted Israel into existence, which proves even they get things right now and then.

I answered that question more than often.

I even used your beloved Christopher Hitchens as a reference.

I would agree with Christopher Hitchens in so much as no religious justification should be the basis for a state and if the Jews are able to live in Israel then the Palestinians should equally have the right to live in Palestine. There is a huge difference between principle and practice though. Starting with the birth of Israel in 1948 it came out of a decision to partition the land between Jews and Palestinians so they could both have their own states. The Jews agreed and the Palestinians did not, which resulted in war. Since then there have been no fewer than four wars resulting in more Palestinians leaving and more Jews arriving, contributed to considerably by those evicted from Arab lands.

To further complicate matters secular but corrupt Fatah now vie for power with the Islamic extemists of Hamas who don't recognize Israel's right to exist. The Rabin's peace overtures and the following Intifada brought a rash of suicide bombings and the Israeli government built a security fence linking Jewish west bank settlements in order to reduce the suicide bombings, which was actually quite successful.

In summary we have a situation where the facts on the ground prevent a return to the pre 1967 borders, Fatah had it would appear recognised this if Al-Jazeera are accurate in their reporting, however Fatah do not represent the sole Palestinian view and absolutist Hamas by their very definition can't be negotiated with so any argument of principle no longer holds water and the Palestinian leadership are largely to blame due to the decisions they have made since 1948.

MLK in 1967.

this thread is about the Gaza conflict in 2011.

As relevent today as the day it was written. And you still have not answered two simple questions.

1) What is your definition of Zionism?

2) Do you agree that Israel has the right to exist YES or NO.

Here is more evidence that defining Zionism, especially in these days when much of the world is like Bangkokeddy and succeeding in DEMONIZING it and making it into an antisemitic slur word, is more important than ever.

http://www.takebackzionism.org/node/add/contribute-view

You are making something up here what i never said and you lie, again.

Talking about anti zionist T shirts i wonder if he has got one of these as well ?

So what do we have here? Ben Bernanke is Jewish and he is head of the Fed - Implication Jews run the banking system.

And you link him directly to Zionism. So for you there is no doubt whatsoever where you stand Jews are Zionists - you are outed racist, thought that is common knowledge due to the persistent use of antisemitic hoax material in your links.

Agreed it all adds up & has not gone unnoticed either

Perhaps we could kill two birds with one stone?

Bring the troops home & turn the fire power on Goldman Sachs, dirty politicians et al?

On 2nd thought save the dough just bring the military home.

We the people can handle the other work ourselves

Same with foreign aid.....We ( the USA ) are hemorrhaging....Now is not the time to donate blood

I think the U.S were always luke warm about Libyan intervention and if anyone is covetous of Libyan oil it's more likely Europe than the U.S. I suspect that a certain amount of shaedenfreude would be felt by the U.S if European forces were not sufficient to pursue regime change unaided and after Sarkozy went all in.

http://www.debka.com/article/20790/

Coalition warplanes for no-fly zone

Four days after the Western-Arab coalition decided Saturday, March 19 to enforce a no fly zone over Libya, only six Western warplanes - American, British, Canadian and French - are in the sky at any one time, debkafile's military sources disclose. This is barely enough for a no-fly zone just over Benghazi. And so the anti-Qaddafi operation has run out of steam, slowed also by the falling-out between Washington, London and Paris over its nature and goals and the fading away of the Arab component.

Here is more evidence that defining Zionism, especially in these days when much of the world is like Bangkokeddy and succeeding in DEMONIZING it and making it into an antisemitic slur word, is more important than ever.

http://www.takebackzionism.org/node/add/contribute-view

Actually, I think you may be getting somewhere in your quest to pull an eel from a barrel of baby oil. Here is Eddie's quote from another thread.

Yes, Rabin as a man of war, that made him to a symbol for Zionism. His peace talks came much later, when he was already an established symbol of Zionism. His peace talks did not made him to a symbol of Zionism.

And so his murder did not target him because he was a symbol of Zionism.

Understand now?

So when Rabin talked peace he ceased to be a Zionist, ergo if Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist and entered into peace talks I guess that every Israeli who agreed to talk would cease to be a Zionist.