Steely Dan

Poor old Iran being picked on again.

The resolution cited a damning report submitted by U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to the rights council's 16th session last week. Ban wrote that he was "deeply troubled" by a host of violations including the runaway rate of capital punishment, the execution of minors, torture, amputations, and arbitrary detentions.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2011/03/un-human-rights-council-appoints-investigator-for-iran.html#ixzz1Hgctyvew

And if you're going to tell porkies make them enormous and keep a straight face.

"The Islamic Republic of Iran has always manifested its sincere commitment to the promotion of human rights at the national and international levels,"

The issue here seems to be that one group of religious fundementalists are trying to bait another bunch of religious fundementalists

Exactly, and we are better off ignoring them all.

If it were as simple as that there would indeed be little to comment about. Perhaps the Pastor is just an extremist crackpot who hates Muslims, though if taken at his word his beef is not with any ethnic or religious group, but with Islamic law encroaching upon U.S law and the radicals pushing this agenda.

Whatever his motives the Pastor may soon be past tense, which would indeed put his claimed justifications into even sharper focus. (See link).

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/03/24/islamic-group-places-2-2-million-bounty-on-head-of-koran-burning-forida-pastor/

A provocative act invites reprocussions but it may also get people thinking. In the civilised world (Thanks Christopher) we have built up our laws and constitutions over a long period and the Universal declaration of human rights spells out the values they are based on. Iran has just protested against a human rights concil resolution to monitor these rights within Iran. Iran has always been of the oppinion that these universal rights are incompatible with Sharia law. So what elements of universal human rights clash with Sharia law, indeed would human rights in the U.S be compromised by the application of Sharia law?

So why burn the Koran and not the equally bloodthirsty Torah? Perhaps this is down to a presumptive 'right' to usurp existing norms on the part of radical Islam which is not present with other faiths.

The desecration of holy objects has another dimension, is it the desecration which is the 'problem' or who is doing the desecrating?

Here's Christopher;-

http://www.slate.com/id/2159936/

All over the non-Muslim world, we hear incessant demands that those who believe in the literal truth of the Quran be granted "respect." We are supposed to watch what we say about Islam, lest by any chance we be considered "offensive." A fair number of authors and academics in the West now have to live under police protection or endure prosecution in the courts for not observing this taboo with sufficient care. A stupid termIslamophobiahas been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam's infallible "message."

Well, this idiotic masochism has to be dropped. There may have been a handful of ugly incidents, provoked by lumpen elements, after certain episodes of Muslim terrorism. But no true secularist or even Christian has been involved in anything like the torching of a mosque. (The last time that such a thing did happen on any scale—in Bosnia—the United States and Britain intervened militarily to put a stop to it. We also overthrew the Taliban, which was slaughtering the Hazara Shiite minority in Afghanistan.) But where are the denunciations from centers of Sunni and Shiite authority of the daily murder and torture of Islamic co-religionists? Of the regular desecration of holy sites and holy books? Of the paranoid insults thrown so carelessly and callously by one Muslim group at another? This mounting ghastliness is a bit more worthy of condemnation, surely, than a few Danish cartoons or a false rumor about a profaned copy of the Quran in Guantanamo. The civilized world—yes I do mean to say that—should find its own voice and state firmly to Muslim leaders and citizens that respect is something to be earned and not demanded with menace. A short way of phrasing this would be to say, "See how the Muslims respect each other!"

He who protesteth too much has obviously much to hide. Instead of fighting a rearguard action to stop Sharia law being applied within western Countries it's high time we put pressure on Countries using Sharia law to at least respect universal human rights. They will complain because Sharia law is explicity incompatable with universal human rights norms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

Islamist criticism Islamist countries such as Sudan, Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia have criticized the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for its perceived failure to take into the account the cultural and religious context of Islamist countries.[citation needed] In 1982, the Iranian representative to the United Nations, Said Rajaie-Khorassani, articulated the position of his country regarding the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, by saying that the UDHR was "a secular understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition", which could not be implemented by Muslims without trespassing the Islamic law.[20] On 30 June 2000, Muslim nations that are members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference[21] officially resolved to support the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam,[22] an alternative document that says people have "freedom and right to a dignified life in accordance with the Islamic Shari’ah".[23] However, this document doesn't recognize the freedom to change religion, equate women as equals to men, or maintain neutrality when comparing religions.

I applaud this resolution, we should be campaigning to have it applied worldwide rather that appease minority groups who demand exemptions from it whererever they live.

Edited to keep on topic.

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/24/iran-and-hezbollah-outraged-over-islamophobic-koran-burning-by-florida-pastor/

Iran and Hezbollah Outraged Over “Islamophobic” Koran Burning by Florida Pastor…

Actually returning to the OT I wonder why the preacher decided to burn the Koran instead of any other holy book, there are plenty to choose from many violent and shocking by modern standards.

http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/OTHERREFERENCE/RELIGION/HolyBooks.html

One things for sure, if now was 1939 our current crop of western politicians would have taken the Neville Chamberlain easy option over the hard choices Churchill has to make. We have the likes of Christopher Hitchins and precious few others.

As for respect, well yes it should be a two way street.

Looking from another angle; Supposing Islam had never existed and someone in modern day America produced a book he proclaimed as an absolute guide to both law and morality which should take precedence over existing U.S law, and he called it the Quran. What then if he gathered followers for his new religion and set up shop trying to bend local law and customs to his code.

Of course he would be taken out quicker than you could say David Koresh. Longevity sure changes perspective.

Deleted double post

If it hasn't been mentioned before does this no outside observers stance apply if they actually manage to build a nuclear power station?

The divide is too great and the common ground is too small.

One side has to win and one side has to lose.

Western civilization is too liberal to fight the battle.

Give it to China and be done with it.

Perhaps moving to Alaska is an option.

Edit to clarify: Pertaining to Womens rights I would say rape is rape with marriage or not as is assault.

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/17/alaska-moves-to-ban-future-use-of-sharia-law/

JUNEAU, Alaska (AP) An Alaskan lawmaker hopes to guard against Islamic Sharia law by prohibiting state courts from honoring foreign law that violates Alaskan or U.S. constitutional rights.

Having just fished a long dead cockroach out of a pack of Chinese green tea I'd argue that a bit of irradiation might be a benefit. I hope Japan remembers just who her friends are when the dust settles.

So sad, whilst most of the world makes progress against misogyny you can trust Islamic clerical extremists to head even further in the reverse direction.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nina-burleigh/egypt-and-the-universal-r_b_819178.html

An Egyptian cleric in 2009 decreed that men and women may only work together in offices if the women have breast-fed the men. That cleric was forced to retract the decree, and was fired, then reinstated. But the decree was reiterated by another cleric in Saudi Arabia.

and yet none of the ones complaining have any problem with burning flags.

especially when it comes to afgan, In Afghanistan ‘they’ grow and refine heroin for a living, and, yet, have a moral objection to beer.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is still openly on sale in Cairo, and many other Arab cities I dare say.

The fact that they seem to expect the U.S government to take action is very revealing. But certain freedoms are enshrined in western law and constitutions. To paraphrase Voltaire - 'I don't agree with what the man says, but I'd die for his right to say it'.

To expect any action from the U.S government implies the law being changed to accomodate this, a very dangerous and slippery slope indeed. The right to draw cartoons was tested a few years back and again explicit threats and boycotts were arranged to try and force the Danish government to change it's own law to prosecute those who published them.

The liberal appeasers unfortunately are trying their best to appease radicals and in so doing threaten to erode all our hard won freedoms.

I think Egypt is in a dangerous state of flux, sure Mubarrak was a despot, but I think it naive in the extreme to believe democracy will take hold in Egypt, even if they have a fair election and the Muslim brotherhood win that will probably be the last free election a they surplant democracy with Sharia law. The permission for two Iranian warships to transit Suez was another clear message that the camp David peace treaty is sadly all but dead. I fear another war and the current Egyptian statement is purely to test Israel's resolve to defend itself and I expect it to be followed by more Hamas provokation not less.

Yes another, hope it's an aftershock and not a warning of something bigger to come.

Phayao, shaken but not stirred.

Muslims ...

Here we go,... again.

http://www.imaan.org.uk

Imaan supports LGBT Muslim people, their families and friends, to address issues of sexual orientation within Islam. It provides a safe space and support network to address issues of common concern through sharing individual experiences and institutional resources.

Imaan promotes the Islamic values of peace, social justice and tolerance through its work, and aspires to bring about a world that is free from prejudice and discrimination against all Muslims and LGBT people.

http://www.al-fatiha.org/

Al-Fatiha is dedicated to Muslims of all cultural and ethnic backgrounds who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, queer, and questioning or exploring their sexual orientation and/or gender identity (LGBTIQQ), and their families, friends and allies.

Al-Fatiha promotes the progressive Islamic notions of peace, equality and justice. We envision a world that is free from prejudice, injustice and discrimination, where all people are fully embraced and accepted into their families, faith and communities.

Homosexual and 'passionate about Islam'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13712248/ns/world_news-islam_in_europe/

Glad to see secular and moderate Muslims enjoying the freedom of expression allowed in western democracies.

Disgusted in the deceitful and mendacious manner you snipped Jingthings post turning "Muslims - Radical fundamentalist Islamic regimes" into "Muslims" full stop.

The point is that Jewish society, for the most part, transcended the sociopathic fiction of scripture centuries ago, whereas Islamic fanatics still follow it chapter and verse and Islamic fundamentalists have even expanded the perverse and beastial nature of literal adherence to scripture and taken it to new depths.

P.S A history lesson is hardly relevent if we have transcended ancient history.

Jingthing, Here it is

Footnote: The Nazis banned Jazz, Islamic fundamentalists ban all music.

Someone posted a video on another thread depicting Hamas thugs in Gaza breaking up a wedding party where there was singing. They said the attendees were being taken away to be murdered. I recall they showed beatings. Can anyone confirm whether this is actually a Hamas policy? I know they are radical Islamic fundamentalists so it's fair to assume they share similarities to the Taliban. Remember Hamas was voted in, even though I am sure plenty of Gazans regret it, this was their "democratic" choice. I don't mean to focus on gays. They provide an example of a much wider barbaric brutality. I think it is fair for liberal westerners to label radical Islamic fundamentalist theocracies as barbaric IF they are barbaric. If they're murdering gay, women rape victims, wedding party singers, etc. they are coming from a very DARK ancient age rational people don't want to regress to. That's not the same thing as saying all Muslims are barbaric, they obviously aren't. There is nothing wrong with having values, and the values of Hamas have nothing in common with the values of modern western people. Also, they don't only want to kill Jews, don't kid yourself.

(Readers please note, I have bangkokeddy on ignore, which is an action I can recommend to others, but it's up to you.)

Hi Jing,

I'm looking for it, in the meantime here is what women can expect under an Islamic theocracy. It's about Egypt, but bare in mind Hamas was spawned from the Muslim brotherhood.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nina-burleigh/egypt-and-the-universal-r_b_819178.html

But Islamist efforts to keep women segregated in these modern times have reached ridiculous levels. Iraqis whisper that extremists have even shot storekeepers for stowing "male and female vegetables" (cucumbers and tomatoes apparently) together. An Egyptian cleric in 2009 decreed that men and women may only work together in offices if the women have breast-fed the men. That cleric was forced to retract the decree, and was fired, then reinstated. But the decree was reiterated by another cleric in Saudi Arabia.

Jewish fundamentalists don't murder homosexuals. Islamic ones do. Who cares where the Muslims got the idea? The issue is PRACTICES today. Israel is the capital of gay culture in the Middle East. Gay Arab Israelis appreciate that very much, they would be murdered by their own people if Hamas conquered Israel.

Many western liberals demonize Israel but in my view don't really understand the kind of enemy Israel is dealing with. The kind of enemy that would murder many of them if they had to live under them. If point out this truth is irrational, I think I like being irrational.

I doubt that is a gay or not gay issue.

But i wanna know what gay activist say about this read here more:

Queers Against Israeli Apartheid

You may wanna also check what your friend and trusted source barrybrumfield.com has to say about gays and Obama.

Btw. isn't the term "western liberal" nowadays some anti-semitic slur word, because many western liberals are Jewish.

I guess the gay Israeli-Arabs won't be joining them in light of the treatment they could expect in the entire rest of the middle east.

Topic: Bomb blast kills woman at Jerusalem bus stop

I doubt that Arab gays will turn into Zionists over this.

You've found that 'Z' key again good on you.

Jewish fundamentalists don't murder homosexuals. Islamic ones do. Who cares where the Muslims got the idea? The issue is PRACTICES today. Israel is the capital of gay culture in the Middle East. Gay Arab Israelis appreciate that very much, they would be murdered by their own people if Hamas conquered Israel.

Many western liberals demonize Israel but in my view don't really understand the kind of enemy Israel is dealing with. The kind of enemy that would murder many of them if they had to live under them. If point out this truth is irrational, I think I like being irrational.

I doubt that is a gay or not gay issue.

But i wanna know what gay activist say about this read here more:

Queers Against Israeli Apartheid

You may wanna also check what your friend and trusted source barrybrumfield.com has to say about gays and Obama.

Btw. isn't the term "western liberal" nowadays some anti-semitic slur word, because many western liberals are Jewish.

I guess the gay Israeli-Arabs won't be joining them in light of the treatment they could expect in the entire rest of the middle east.

A diplomat breaking the official secrets act, repremanded for being drunk at work and leaving his first wife for a belly dancer he met at a Tashkent nightclub.

I at least commented on his suspect commentary and left others to check the link if curious, but you are improving, I can find no holocaust denial or 9/11 conspiracy claims in his C.V

What has leaving his first wife for a belly dancer he met at a Tashkent nightclub got to do with the price of fish. God bless the man I say.

For bigots is it an issue.

Oh the irony you forgot to use the 'Z' word Eddie are you feeling ok?