backtonormal

The PM isn´t working for reconciliation, she works for her brother.

Sez you

I dont think anybody is working for reconcilliation. It wont work because the Thais are suppose to forgive and forget then a few years later a legally elected government is removed, by force in the shape of a coup. I believe what we are seeing is the start of the end game. Thaksin is dismantling the system, the amaat whatever you want to call it so they dont have the power to call another coup. It has started with the rice boys, next it maybe the totally biased media...who knows.

The'dying swan'imitation by a retired general,Patak Siam ..."dont worry the armys coming to help us..he then run off the stage to an army base where the commander wont let him in..pathetic if thats the only support the amaat can afford nowadays.

Its a lose/lose situation, if you think whats on the horizon in the next few years, for the amaat. Their only hope is to get the army back in office but that is gloves off civil war and condemnation from the free world. Its over, tomorrow, next week, next year or in ten years

As long at these red shirt villages put up banners claiming 'this here village is a red shirt village' complete with picture of Thaksin on, they should be condemned. It's all very well calling them grassroots movements towards social improvement but with a benefactor like that they are open to ridicule. In many ways the man epitomises so much that they ought to be against: a rich, double-standards, tax dodging, selfish, silver-spooned individual, and I'm guessing much of the organisational financing etc came from his cronies. He uses them for his own personal gain and its tragic that they are so hard up that they have to subscribe to this shameful marriage of convenience, for Thaksin seems to make decisions that perpetually put one individual in conflict with the rest of the country. Furthermore, to make it geographical is to invite discrimination, those few in the village who are not part of the red thinking can scarcely object, given their tendency towards intimidatory behaviour. They are nothing more than a propaganda tool, and it will be effectively used to distort the intentions of a referendum to gauge people's thoughts on a new charter. A new charter won't really make much difference to the lives and rights of these people, the biggest beneficiary will be a few pardoned individuals. Considering this, I think that a covert strategy by the Democrats to defeat the referendum by a 'no show' is perfectly understandable.

I take your points onboard but not really agree. May I suggest instead of decrying, belittling and generally shooting down thevillages please tell me what the Democrats intend to do about it. They've not been elected for 20 year at the polls because they simply are so far out of touch with most of the voters. If you claim the election was won by only a few millions votes why cant they swing such a small majority. Mark and the boys have nothing really to offer other than basing all comments around Thaksins return as the reason for changing the constitution. Can you tell me what else will be quashed by the removal of 309. Immunity for Marks mates (army generals ) may fly out of the window

Somebody gave the ok to use live ammunition on people. Because of that a young boy died. That order is the sole reaon for this boys death. Who gave the order. Its what happens when you fire nearly 120,000 live rounds into the public. Somebody will kop a stray un

The police have the OK to use live ammunition. Who gets charged whenever they kill someone?

When protesters are armed, how should the authorities respond? Just rollover and give in? Yay to mob rule.

There must be time when a police officer is allowed to discharge his weapon, not likely to get charged with unlawfully killing. When he shoots somebody unlawfully he should be charged. In this particular case none of the victims were armed. For a moment I thought you were referring to the army when you said 'mob rule' . Nearly 120,000 live rounds not returned to the armoury. That looks like a killing spree

The courts have to establish who gave the orders and on paper that must be Abhisit. In reality it goes higher up the food chain. The question may be that when it is established that the PM gave the orders will he carry the can or implicate others. By following the chain of command from the officer in charge at the scene it is going to quite easy to establish where the original orders came from.

The orders don't necessarily lead to the unlawful death. The courts haven't even said it was an unlawful death.

Somebody gave the ok to use live ammunition on people. Because of that a young boy died. That order is the sole reason for this boys death. Who gave the order. Its what happens when you fire nearly 120,000 live rounds into the public. Somebody will cop a stray un

The courts have to establish who gave the orders and on paper that must be Abhisit. In reality it goes higher up the food chain. The question may be that when it is established that the PM gave the orders will he carry the can or implicate others. By following the chain of command from the officer in charge at the scene it is going to quite easy to establish where the original orders came from.

Personally, I don't know if this little boy lived in the area or not. However, one has to ask why the army were in the area. Was it for ceremonial duties? Was it to help flooding as happened in 2011? Were they training for some future event? Such as crowd control? Surely that would be a police function. It sure is in my country.

Or were they there to move a rabble from the streets, a gang of armed idiots who had already cause deaths, destruction and fear? And who were intent on going much further in their efforts to achieve their aims. Aims which originally included a demand for new elections, to which Abhisit said OK. Flushed with success, they decided that this wasn't enough, and set about the dismantling of any vestige of normality in Bangkok.

Getting back to the little boy. If he lived in the area, then the red shirts brought their plague to his location and are thus responsible. If he came with the red shirts, they are equally responsible for his death. Let us look for the root causes of his untimely, sad demise, not only at the unhappy ending

Absolute, shameless nonsense.

The people who shot him are entirely responsible for their actions and ALL ( all the way up through the chain of command ) should be brought to court and have their day.

It is nonsense to imply it's his fault for being there, in the same way that it is equally stupid for our dutch uncle to assert that the kid died because of lack of some sort parental control....

He was shot by soldiers who were, or were not,under the full control of their officers, and if they were under the full control of their officers, then the officers too are accountable.

A full enquiry is needed and it looks like it is going to happen.

A first for Thailand that should be celebrated.

I have long regarded you as a troll, an internet warrior with nothing to do except promote hatred of the Democratic party and their leaders. However, I will be fair to you as you and your sort would change sides in a heartbeat if the Dems came to power.

A little clique, a coterie if you will, has sprung up, all baying for Abhisit's blood. As a group, you have managed to deny the existence of any aggressive behaviour in the Red Shirt camp, have chosen to ignore the fact that weapons were first used by the red shirt side, have been unable to explain the inability of the Royal Thai Police to do their job in the situation which existed in 2010 in Bangkok. Compared to how they handled the recent Pitak Siam Rally, it is obvious they were under orders to stay out of the rebellion. Whose orders they were are also very apparent, but you lot chose to ignore that also.

A troll can be regarded by some as a thorn in the flesh, or maybe just a little prick. I know where I think you belong

That bit in red is pure fiction. It just goes to show the intelligence of the opposition. Dems need military aid to get back in power

rip Kunakorn Srisuwan

do they have the bullets that caused his death and if so can they prove 100% that they where fired from an army weapon and can say who fired the weapon using forensics if not they dont have a case . just having bullets from a similar weapon proves nothing and could have been discharched by anyone from anywhere in the vacinity .

Proving the bullets came from an army weapon doesn't mean too much since most of those style weapons have been stolen from the army in the first place. The army are in the enviable position of either denying or confirming that the weapon was or was not previously stolen - as they wish probably without question. It is strange that a 14 year old boy was wandering around a war zone though. And how are they able to determine that the boy was or was not red or yellow ? what reporting !

Red or Yellow For Xxxxx sake its a 14 year old kid who was murdered

Thaksin gained from the assassination of Sae Daeng on international tv. No way Thaksin had him slaughtered, Sae Daeng was a loyal man who was totally miffed about being constantly overlooked for promotion when he was Thailands only real Officer (his superiors where jus money men and golfers).

Who gave the order to murder a Thai citizen as it was no Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones. Abhisit would be the only one with authority but no one can see him giving this order, but his superiors may of. These amaat believe they can still do what they have been doing for 60 years.

Not only them , think about the families of 90 persons how has been killed of Abhisit and Suthep administration .

Are you including soldiers and civilians killed by red shirts guns and grenades in that?

Sent from my HTC phone.

I am sure I have pointed out before. soldiers were only killed in one incident. There as only been one investigation into that incident, like it or not and the evidence points to someone close by lobbying in a flash grenade and taking cover behind a military vehicle with the sole intent of upping the anti to justify shooting civillians. The army or the dems (sorry they the same thing) have had long enough to bring in their evidence to counter claim the Amsterdam case. The fact that they have failed to do so even for the grieving parents of the deceased soldiers clearly indicates they cannot refute the evidence provided by the red lawyer. Other than one pop up soldier copping one in the back of his head from his army colleague no others soldiers were killed during the unrest of 2010.

I hope me pointing this out stops you posting alike in another thread

The 'flash grenade' part is BS. Also saying 'just in one incident' is ignoring the strange situation of 'peaceful protesters' lobbing grenades. A 'few' more were lobbed afterwards, even uptill the 19th of May with a few soldiers and vanderGrift 'only' wounded, but not killed. Now that really explains and justifies things, doesn't it?

I hope me pointing this out for the uhmptheenth time will stop you from posting BS in this or other threads, but I doubt it.

Today the DSI is on the verge of issuing 3 arrests warrants in connection with the incident. So I am waiting to be corrected. Are you that confident it was rocket propelled or are you just singing from the same hymn sheet

Can you explain why the flash grenade bit is BS

Sondhi been sentenced to over 20 years in the can now and I keep seeing his face on ASTV. How is it hes not in jail

Not only them , think about the families of 90 persons how has been killed of Abhisit and Suthep administration .

Are you including soldiers and civilians killed by red shirts guns and grenades in that?

Sent from my HTC phone.

I am sure I have pointed out before. soldiers were only killed in one incident. There as only been one investigation into that incident, like it or not and the evidence points to someone close by lobbying in a flash grenade and taking cover behind a military vehicle with the sole intent of upping the anti to justify shooting civillians. The army or the dems (sorry they the same thing) have had long enough to bring in their evidence to counter claim the Amsterdam case. The fact that they have failed to do so even for the grieving parents of the deceased soldiers clearly indicates they cannot refute the evidence provided by the red lawyer. Other than one pop up soldier copping one in the back of his head from his army colleague no others soldiers were killed during the unrest of 2010.

I hope me pointing this out stops you posting alike in another thread

10. The Defence Ministry's decision to strip Democrat leader Abhisit retroactively of his military rank and pay.

The number 10 ranked corruption of the year. How dastardly

9. The Department of Special Investigation's charging of former PM Abhisit Vejjajiva and former deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban over civilian deaths during the 2010 crackdown.

Whats corrupt here. Theres been no verdict.

8. The Bt120-billion flood-relief budget, which was slammed for lacking transparency.

Somebody please tell me how not being transparent proves corruption. More rubbish journalism from 'The Nonsense' newspaper

3. The government's controversial rice-pledging policy, which resulted in higher prices that have reportedly cost taxpayers billions of baht and affected the public interest.

The word being reportedly. Anybody got any real details on this scam...didnt think so (please dont reply with rhetoric from the dark side)

^"A standing MP, who was put in power by election"...No he wasn't. Parliamentary machinations don't count. Supporters may wish to cloud this thing by referencing it as an election, it doesn't fly. Every one in the know, knows what happened. Until he wins a national, popular election he has not been elected. To confer such honour on him is far-fetched. I know Parliamentary systems, so don't even think of trying to normalize his elevation to the Prime Ministership via their procedures.

His alleged murderous intent is all wrapped up in his refusal to negotiate an offer to an agreement. He knew the consequences and took them, albeit at other's direction IMHO. He wasn't flying solo...far from it.

A majority of MPs (representatives of the Thai people) decided they wanted him to be PM.

Isn't that what democracy is all about?

Sent from my HTC phone.

Done in an army base. A current member of this coalition and the Thaksins last government said he was made "an offer he could not refuse" most on here will know what that means...still doing business under the cover of the same umbrella

The old English lords remained popular because they built schools, built cheap housing and provide medical care. Not to dissimilar to what Thaksin has been doing. Been here too long to remember and can go back to when the Dems would go to the village and say "vote for us it will be better next time" so the poor did and when the election was over you never saw them again. Thaksin appears and said "vote for me it will be better next time" and they did and it was.

So basically Thaksin was just lucky that there was a global economic boom that the could take credit for.

Maybe so but better to be a lucky politician (who is very popular inside and outside Thailand) than one lurching to the leccy chair. Was not only the boom.

Blackmail for what. The coup makers need to be brought to justice. That hotline from ? to the army needs to stay silent for ever

Removing article 309 won't bring the coup makers to justice. Do you seriously think that the aim of removing 309 is to do that?

If 309 is no longer valid then yes it will be possible to bring charges against the coup makers...Do I think it will happen no but it will put an end to the coups and effectively the Dem party. Oh forgot it will bring the messiah home. No one wants reconcilliation, its been tried before and another blood bath insued. It win or bust for both sides. Looking like there will only be one winner.

Accepted but you are missing the point. Thaksin chucked down some coins for the poor wheras the others dont give the dirt from under their fingernails. Of course he made a few quid when in power I accept that but he didnt line the pockets of greedy generals to get power back once it was all going against him. By the way who actually calls for a coup

Is chucking down some coins good in some way?

The old English lords remained popular because they built schools, built cheap housing and provide medical care. Not to dissimilar to what Thaksin has been doing. Been here too long to remember and can go back to when the Dems would go to the village and say "vote for us it will be better next time" so the poor did and when the election was over you never saw them again. Thaksin appears and said "vote for me it will be better next time" and they did and it was.

The final paragraph of the 2007 Constitution, Section 309, legalises the coup of 2006 and all actions by the military junta prior to and after the coup which overthrew the TS government.

It is the military's Get Out of Jail Free card. The fact that it affects TS criminal record is secondary.

Changing the conversation is very neccesary for some agenda's.

To see the Democrat Party come out so furiously in favor of maintaining the legal status of the coup and all actions by the military junta shows their affiliations. This association will affect them very negatively in future elections.

Right now,Thaksin's politically motivated criminal record is the least of their problems. The alleged murder charges against their own leader is something they are also busy "changing the conversation about".

Quite obvious to most that the murder charges against a couple of the democrat leaders are a plain and simple blackmail attempt by ptp and nothing more.

Blackmail for what. The coup makers need to be brought to justice. That hotline from ? to the army needs to stay silent for ever

The coup happened because he was and still is the most popular politician Thailand has ever had. I believe he was about to call another election with victory undoubted. You talk about corruption as if he was the only one. Take away the corruption element and we would still have an amart who are reaping all the rewards and securing all the lucrative contracts without competition. Since Thailand initiated ASEAN (when it was the power house of the region) to now trying to stall it (because it as fallen so far down the pecking order). Look around who as caused this country to fall so far off its perch (Thaksins only been around a dozen years) those are the people who have milked this country, instigated coups, are the real cause of civil unrest yet they remain faceless.

"we would still have an amart who are reaping all the rewards and securing all the lucrative contracts without competition"

Yes ... Thaksin did well out of that.

"Article 309 endorsed all actions of the 2006 coup regime".. ^^...The operative phrase here being "The Coup regime"..........any other questions?

But for the PTP, there is a silver lining to this cloud. With the Democrat Party linking itself so closely to defending this "coup regime", certainly positions them accordingly. I'm sure this is not lost on the majority electorate.

Just solidifies the notion, if it needs solidification, that throughout all this political to-and-fro, following the bouncing ball, always suggests that it is the Democrats who are the principle benficiaries of coups. Is it any wonder therefore, they are defending 309 tooth and nail, and trying the Thaksin change-of-conversation trick behind which to hide their true motives....not to me it isn't.

Yes, lets not look at the truth of the matter, just use a bit of innuendo so that thaksin can get what he wants. I have nothing against anyones views but yours are simply biased to buggery, this is thaksin at his best still trying to rip off the thai people for his benefit, its a pity you are too one-eyed to see the truth and just toe the party line.

I believe that part of 309 absolved the coup makers from treason. It would be only fair to removed that. If nothing else a coup is illegal and it more damage to Thailand on the international stage than Thaksin ever did. Just look how the military enabled a new coalition (we can only guess how) and under that doomed leadership non of the world players came to town, effectively accepting that the Dems were the political wing of the armed forces. Look at the difference now yingluck is in power (or her brother) deals are being talked about every where, even obama came to the party

"Article 309 endorsed all actions of the 2006 coup regime".. ^^...The operative phrase here being "The Coup regime"..........any other questions?

But for the PTP, there is a silver lining to this cloud. With the Democrat Party linking itself so closely to defending this "coup regime", certainly positions them accordingly. I'm sure this is not lost on the majority electorate.

Just solidifies the notion, if it needs solidification, that throughout all this political to-and-fro, following the bouncing ball, always suggests that it is the Democrats who are the principle benficiaries of coups. Is it any wonder therefore, they are defending 309 tooth and nail, and trying the Thaksin change-of-conversation trick behind which to hide their true motives....not to me it isn't.

The coup occurred to stop Thaksin's rampant and blatant corruption, and 309 was introduced to increase/introduce anti-corruption measures. But forget about the criminal, concentrate on the coup.

The coup happened because he was and still is the most popular politician Thailand has ever had. I believe he was about to call another election with victory undoubted. You talk about corruption as if he was the only one. Take away the corruption element and we would still have an amart who are reaping all the rewards and securing all the lucrative contracts without competition. Since Thailand initiated ASEAN (when it was the power house of the region) to now trying to stall it (because it as fallen so far down the pecking order). Look around who as caused this country to fall so far off its perch (Thaksins only been around a dozen years) those are the people who have milked this country, instigated coups, are the real cause of civil unrest yet they remain faceless.