Ferangled

Umm were are your links or proof of proper real school studies about the implementing of this tablets scheme. Same rule of proof applies to you.

Personally I'm on record as stating I think this is a bad idea as implemented. You just seem to argue. But never give your ideas.

Im sure I have asked you a few times about your thoughts.

Again what are your thoughts about the implemention of this and the other vote buying schemes?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Sorry, did you miss the article attached to the thread I linked to? I even quoted the reference to the studies for you. If you require further proof please contact those who actually conducted the studies, I personally wasn't involved. As I understand it the conclusions and comments from a number of other studies and trials in different countries were also considered.

I've made my views on this subject very clear in the past. I do believe that tablets can play a useful role as a learning aid, not just in relation to the accepted subjects studied but in a wider sense becoming familiar with technology and comfortable with it's use. That said while tablets may provide a useful way for the younger students to get involved, develop hand eye coordination skills and aid learning, ultimately they fall short in function when compared to laptops/ PCs which I'd suggest would be more relevant to secondary school and vocational students...

That's one of the reasons why I see the initial implementation of the scheme in primary schools rather than a sudden rush to purchase 11,000,000 tablets (as suggested by Bulchholz), as a much better way to start this scheme. Clearly this whole scheme was a populist campaign promise to gain voters enthusiasm, much as we see the world over in politics. As evidenced by the last election this along with many other factors had the desired outcome. Now that this scheme is actually being implemented it's refreshing to see a concerted attempt by the Government to honour it's promises.

Should the primary focus be on improving the standards of teaching, general curriculum, facilities etc rather than tablet computers? Why of course it should but that wouldn't be too popular with the electorate who prefer to see instant changes and results (much like Bulchholz again!). I'm afraid that's part and parcel of democracy, if you want to win votes you have to be popular and offer popular policies to your electorate. One party seems to understand the people and the constraints of democracy, the other simply tries to wrestle power against their will and abuse them, preferring a more absolute route to power. That's a massive generalisation but I'm posting on an internet forum not writing a detailed, critical essay on the subject...

I think that I've ventured off topic enough...Incidentally please reference a Government that has honoured every campaign promise to the letter that you see as a glowing example for Thailand's politicians to follow...

Umm well I saw a nation link saying that a study would be concluded soon. I did not see any conclusions. Maybe you could find those. PTP have been very good at PR soundbites not so good at final info.

Oh by the way it was the PTP government who stated 'one tablet per child ' as a time line I would suggest within the 4 year term. What do you think?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

So having demanded I state my views you ignore them completely choosing instead to focus on the lack of clarity as to the initial studies... you claimed they'd never taken place, clearly that's incorrect. If you require further details as to the conclusions of these studies please contact those responsible and request the information you desire! It's irrelevant to the post you have just replied to...

Perhaps you could return the common courtesy I expressed to you, by answering your points and clarifying my stance as you demanded, by actually replying to the points raised in mine...

As for your question, I'd suggest you read my posts, I have covered this in some depth... I think it would be rather foolish to rush into the supply of 11,000,000 tablets before concluding studies of the initial order in a real, school environment on a national scale. 4 years? Personally I'd stagger this over a much longer period, clearly the technology will change and in 1-2 years time the current price and specification will be out of date.

It makes much more sense to implement this gradually, measuring the merits of the scheme as it's implemented and changing it accordingly, as technology changes, so next years batch can be adjusted to better suit the changing technology and the conclusions drawn from actual widespread usage in schools...

That's one of the reasons why I see the initial implementation of the scheme in primary schools rather than a sudden rush to purchase 11,000,000 tablets (as suggested by Bulchholz)

purchase 11,000,000 tablets (as suggested by Bulchholz ) Education Minister Woravat Auapinyakul

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5518130

Why of course it should but that wouldn't be too popular with the electorate who prefer to see instant changes and results (much like Bulchholz again!).

who prefer to see instant changes and results (much like Bulchholz Education Minister Woravat Auapinyakul

again!).

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5518130

1. As much as you like assigning Yingluck's point man's views as mine, they are not.

2. It's B-u-c-h-h-o-l-z.....

.

My sincere apologies Buchholz.

Incidentally the links you provided don't actually prove your point in anyway...

There's a reference to a statement made by our "point man"... but no promise that they would instantly deliver 11,000,000 tablets...

"We will try to give tablet PCs to all students in primary and secondary school," he said, adding that vocational students would also get the tablets...

But the 11,000,000 and the instant delivery seems to be your fabrication... much like the 1% 1-2% 2% less than 2% etc etc etc

Edit. Fear not, I won't get petty about you editing my post in your quote...

1% becomes 2% and now somewhere between the two, kind of irrelevant to the reality that these tablets are being delivered and the scheme is being implemented...

I never said 2%, I said "on its way to 2%", which is why when I later used "1 - 2%" is the same thing and is no change at all

.

Yes, they are being delivered.... now we have < 2% (yet another way of saying the same thing) of their pledged total that are delivered..and those are over 2 months late.

Terrific performance

So you never said 1% either eh?!!!

Why put statistics out there if they are purely fabricated and inaccurate?!

How desperate at straw clutching are you?

Yes, I initially said one percent. That was subsequently amended to more than one percent, but less than two percent.

Huge difference!

And that somehow is supposed to completely negate my calling the government's performance abysmal.

1% or < 2% are both pathetic.

the height of absurdity in your feeble point-making is reached.

.

Finally you just came out and said it Bulhholz!!! So you admit all those posts ago when I called BS on your statistics I was correct!!! Finally!

How long did it take you?! You've admitted your "statistics" are total BS and rather than trying to hide behind some fictional numbers you've created you just came out and said what you wanted to say... bravo!

It seems my dialogue has promoted you to finally grow a pair... well done

You could have saved us all a lot of grief and just said at the start - regardless of whether they deliver these tablets or not, I'm against them... errr... just because I am, ok!!!

Umm were are your links or proof of proper real school studies about the implementing of this tablets scheme. Same rule of proof applies to you.

Personally I'm on record as stating I think this is a bad idea as implemented. You just seem to argue. But never give your ideas.

Im sure I have asked you a few times about your thoughts.

Again what are your thoughts about the implemention of this and the other vote buying schemes?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Sorry, did you miss the article attached to the thread I linked to? I even quoted the reference to the studies for you. If you require further proof please contact those who actually conducted the studies, I personally wasn't involved. As I understand it the conclusions and comments from a number of other studies and trials in different countries were also considered.

I've made my views on this subject very clear in the past. I do believe that tablets can play a useful role as a learning aid, not just in relation to the accepted subjects studied but in a wider sense becoming familiar with technology and comfortable with it's use. That said while tablets may provide a useful way for the younger students to get involved, develop hand eye coordination skills and aid learning, ultimately they fall short in function when compared to laptops/ PCs which I'd suggest would be more relevant to secondary school and vocational students...

That's one of the reasons why I see the initial implementation of the scheme in primary schools rather than a sudden rush to purchase 11,000,000 tablets (as suggested by Bulchholz), as a much better way to start this scheme. Clearly this whole scheme was a populist campaign promise to gain voters enthusiasm, much as we see the world over in politics. As evidenced by the last election this along with many other factors had the desired outcome. Now that this scheme is actually being implemented it's refreshing to see a concerted attempt by the Government to honour it's promises.

Should the primary focus be on improving the standards of teaching, general curriculum, facilities etc rather than tablet computers? Why of course it should but that wouldn't be too popular with the electorate who prefer to see instant changes and results (much like Bulchholz again!). I'm afraid that's part and parcel of democracy, if you want to win votes you have to be popular and offer popular policies to your electorate. One party seems to understand the people and the constraints of democracy, the other simply tries to wrestle power against their will and abuse them, preferring a more absolute route to power. That's a massive generalisation but I'm posting on an internet forum not writing a detailed, critical essay on the subject...

I think that I've ventured off topic enough...Incidentally please reference a Government that has honoured every campaign promise to the letter that you see as a glowing example for Thailand's politicians to follow...

1% becomes 2% and now somewhere between the two, kind of irrelevant to the reality that these tablets are being delivered and the scheme is being implemented...

I never said 2%, I said "on its way to 2%", which is why when I later used "1 - 2%" is the same thing and is no change at all

.

Yes, they are being delivered.... now we have < 2% (yet another way of saying the same thing) of their pledged total that are delivered..and those are over 2 months late.

Terrific performance

So you never said 1% either eh?!!!

Like it or not, the Government appears to be honouring this campaign promise.

so far it seems they've honored around 1% of their promised 11,000,000 tablets. Only 99% more to go.

.

Why put statistics out there if they are purely fabricated and inaccurate?!

Ok Bulchholz calm down, the way you are contradicting your own "statistics" you don't need any help in convincing me that your "figures" are false. They have changed 3 times over the course of this thread already...

1% becomes 2% and now somewhere between the two, kind of irrelevant to the reality that these tablets are being delivered and the scheme is being implemented... however much that irks you, that is what's happening and it's plain for all to see.

I've flicked through your posts on previous related threads and you seem to be arguing from two opposing standpoints here, you disagree with the entire scheme and didn't want to see it implemented but now you appear to wish to rush the process and expect delivery of 11,000,000 tablets in a few weeks? Surely it would be better to stage the implementation of the tablets in a sustainable manner rather than rush in and purchase 11,000,000 before the scheme has been partially implemented, studied and conclusions as to it's function drawn...

Incidentally I didn't realise that the length of membership on this forum (or number of posts for that matter) was somehow a yard stick to judge one's comments on; I guess the fact that I've been living in Thailand on and off for over a decade is irrelevant... or that I actually work here, talking to Thais on a daily basis from all walks of society, from the sheltered elitists that you champion so vehemently to the marginalised masses you pour such scorn on...

Surely. It would have been even better to have partially implemented. Studied and drawn conclusions BEFORE contracting to purchase over 65 million US dollars worth of tablet computers AND that's just this years P1's

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But you would prefer they purchased all 11,000,000 now rather than the current partial implementation to 1st year students?! There were initial studies conducted prior to the purchase order, now there's partial implementation and ongoing studies...

You and Bulchholz seem to flip flop back and forth at will on this subject. 11,000,000 now or a few 1,000 for initial studies? You do realise that they did conduct initial studies prior to the purchase order... what am I thinking you must do, you and Bulchholz are veritable databases of information... do you want a link to a related thread on TV?!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/550057-no-deal-on-computer-tablets-thai-education-ministry-prepares-textbooks/

No prizes for guessing who chimed up first on that thread either!! What's that saying about empty vessels...

"Suchart said if a purchase contract was signed, the Chinese supplier would have to swiftly deliver 2,000 tablets to Thailand initially, as the devices would be needed for use in training.

In a related development, Srinakharinwirot University (SWU) president Asst Prof Dr Chalermchai Boonyaleepan said that a study on the use of tablets for learning in class would be concluded soon."

So following on from these studies what would be the prudent thing to do order all 11,000,000 or get them in batches, testing each batch for faults and implementing the scheme in a controlled and documented fashion, conducting further real world studies in schools that have the tablets and drawing conclusions from these prior to ordering another 10,000,000 or so tablets?!

I notice that Bulchholz was staunchly calling for all 11,000,000 back in April... I guess common sense and reality of production, training, product testing and partial implementation over time is irrelevant, Bulchholz saw a campaign promise and he wants it delivered, yesterday!

Who has laid the blame on Thaksin for schools. Not I sir.

Certain schools are favoured because that's how the MOE do thing's.

It does seem so black and white to you. Can I ask how do you think the numerous projects are going. Do you think they are successful.

I believe there are some OK ideas but the approach and implementation are flawed. What's your opinion?

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Actually that is exactly what you suggested... selective memory loss? Try reading back a few posts... failing that and in the interest of clarity I'll save you the effort:

I was simply explaining to those with somewhat limited powers of critical thinking that holding up the development of the vast majority of schools because a minority of rural schools still haven't even got electricity is madness. The infrastructure changes in these remote places will take time, the changes are happening as the quote suggests, but these aren't minor works that will happen overnight, also pointedly the current lack of facilities in these schools can't be blamed on the current administration who have been in power less than a year... well I guess they can be if you're completely blinkered and ignore common sense...

Your equal opportunities ideal is great but it is just that, an ideal, a dream, and as is evidenced by nations with much better existing infrastructures than Thailand this is not a reality anywhere. The rich do get better opportunities the world over, there are poor parts of countries and there are affluent areas. I never said these schools should be deprived of electricity and kept in the dark ages, as has suited the ruling classes for centuries, that was your "take" Dolly... your idea of lowering standards in other schools to create a level playing field is just insanity. Yes because a handful of schools don't have electricity we should cut the feeds to all school's in Thailand! Great idea... your logic is faultless!

The changes are happening, improvements are being noticed and time will tell whether the Thai electorate will respond by re-electing their chosen party. They're far from perfect but they certainly seem to be taking steps in the right direction albeit being held back by continual in-fighting and a less than functional opposition...

When will you understand the current administration is just an extension of Shinawatra governments going back to 2001.

The Dems were in power for 18 months while contending with the Red shirt rallies making them less than functional (but that was OK.right)

About schools. There ARE some schools that have a MUCH larger budget. Such as the university demonstration schools. Mahidol demonstration school for example has a HUGE lecture hall with all the bells and whistles. It is used infrequently.

Level playing field. That would be good.

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Which takes us back to the point I just raised about the obvious link between Mahidol and Abhisit's family...

Let's start with the end of your malarkey and work back.

YOU are the one claiming that sources other than The Nation purporting 730,000.

YOU supply them

...or it falls apart as easily as the rest of your diatribe.

The time frame was claimed by Yingluck's point man.

The total tablets pledged was claimed by Yingluck's point man.

To attempt to deflect from that with nonsense about "fabricated" totals and time frames as well as "false statistics" is but an empty apologist effort.

Yes, I missed a batch. If the entire scheme had ever been run efficiently, effectively, and transparently, the chance of that would diminish to zero. Instead, it's been one long road of ever-changing deadlines, goals, deliveries, suppliers, auctions, delays and endless conflicting reports from in-fighting ministries (Education and ICT).

The battle over control and the inbred corruption has been fierce between the two resulting in confusion and lack of transparency.

How many threads have there been on this issue? 20?

That's an indication in itself of the convoluted nature of this scheme.

Is that some sort of roundabout way of conceding that the statistics you put out were totally fabricated and inaccurate?! If you'd simply done that to start with we could have saved a few posts and considerable time! Like it or not, the tablets are arriving, promises being kept and former speculation you have made proved to be inaccurate... much like your statistics!

Quite how many websites have reported 730,000 not 73,000? Again I suggest you just enter this into your search provider "730,000 tablets Thailand" and see quite how any links you are offered!!! Yes many of these originate from the nation article, but this figure is linked to from scores of different sources...

What part of YOU made the claim, YOU supply the links that support YOUR claim, do you not comprehend?

The figures I quoted are the figures of Yingluck's point man.

The time frame I quoted is quoted by Yingluck's point man.

If you are claiming the numbers I used are fabricated, show how and what they are.

I concede nothing until you show something opposing that differs from 134,000 tablets out of 11,000,000 pledged have been delivered. 1 - 2%, so far, of the "promise being kept."

You being obtuse doesn't change that.

Go back over some of those threads that were here before you and perhaps that can help you to see that.

.

Ok Bulchholz calm down, the way you are contradicting your own "statistics" you don't need any help in convincing me that your "figures" are false. They have changed 3 times over the course of this thread already...

1% becomes 2% and now somewhere between the two, kind of irrelevant to the reality that these tablets are being delivered and the scheme is being implemented... however much that irks you, that is what's happening and it's plain for all to see.

I've flicked through your posts on previous related threads and you seem to be arguing from two opposing standpoints here, you disagree with the entire scheme and didn't want to see it implemented but now you appear to wish to rush the process and expect delivery of 11,000,000 tablets in a few weeks? Surely it would be better to stage the implementation of the tablets in a sustainable manner rather than rush in and purchase 11,000,000 before the scheme has been partially implemented, studied and conclusions as to it's function drawn...

Incidentally I didn't realise that the length of membership on this forum (or number of posts for that matter) was somehow a yard stick to judge one's comments on; I guess the fact that I've been living in Thailand on and off for over a decade is irrelevant... or that I actually work here, talking to Thais on a daily basis from all walks of society, from the sheltered elitists that you champion so vehemently to the marginalised masses you pour such scorn on...

The Dems were in power for 18 months while contending with the Red shirt rallies making them less than functional (but that was OK.right)

About schools. There ARE some schools that have a MUCH larger budget. Such as the university demonstration schools. Mahidol demonstration school for example has a HUGE lecture hall with all the bells and whistles. It is used infrequently.

Level playing field. That would be good.

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Oh the irony... I wonder why certain schools are favoured in terms of facilities budgets etc... couldn't possibly be their ties with certain elite families could it?!

Abhisit was preceded in public service by his father, Athasit (อรรถสิทธิ์) Vejjajiva, a former president of Mahidol University and the Royal Institute of Thailand and who is now director of Charoen Pokphand Foods, Thailand's largest agribusiness firm and part of the Charoen Pokphand Group, known throughout Thailand as CP.

But by all means blame Yingluck, Thaksin, reality and relevance be damned!

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Not in most parts of the world

You allow yourself to be deluded by GK's stupidity. Conscription can usually be deferred for a limited period if you are studying. When you complete your studies, most military organisations will recognise your skills and apply them appropriately, sometimes after a period of basic training.

Qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc are rarely used as infantry - they are deployed to "cushy" jobs.

I was unaware that Abhisit was a qualified doctor, lawyer or engineer... I thought he'd studied politics and economics but I guess given the Thai military's direct involvement in both of these areas, these are both of the utmost importance to them!

Let's start with the end of your malarkey and work back.

YOU are the one claiming that sources other than The Nation purporting 730,000.

YOU supply them

...or it falls apart as easily as the rest of your diatribe.

The time frame was claimed by Yingluck's point man.

The total tablets pledged was claimed by Yingluck's point man.

To attempt to deflect from that with nonsense about "fabricated" totals and time frames as well as "false statistics" is but an empty apologist effort.

Yes, I missed a batch. If the entire scheme had ever been run efficiently, effectively, and transparently, the chance of that would diminish to zero. Instead, it's been one long road of ever-changing deadlines, goals, deliveries, suppliers, auctions, delays and endless conflicting reports from in-fighting ministries (Education and ICT).

The battle over control and the inbred corruption has been fierce between the two resulting in confusion and lack of transparency.

How many threads have there been on this issue? 20?

That's an indication in itself of the convoluted nature of this scheme.

.

Is that some sort of roundabout way of conceding that the statistics you put out were totally fabricated and inaccurate?! If you'd simply done that to start with we could have saved a few posts and considerable time! Like it or not, the tablets are arriving, promises being kept and former speculation you have made proved to be inaccurate... much like your statistics!

Quite how many websites have reported 730,000 not 73,000? Again I suggest you just enter this into your search provider "730,000 tablets Thailand" and see quite how any links you are offered!!! Yes many of these originate from the nation article, but this figure is linked to from scores of different sources...

Also solved border tensions. Hahaha.

The border situation was instigated on the request of the former personal economic advisor to Hun Sen.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Presumably your opinion, unless you have proof of treason that is?

No proof. I was told that by a Thai. In a conversation about the Democrats. The person could not give evidence. Do you have evidence to state otherwise?

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What great logic you display... on the same basis any mudslinging and deliberate lies are justifiable points for discussion, eh? Sorry but where I come from if you make a statement you back it up with some reasoning or evidence, otherwise it's simply called a lie!

They announced a week ago that they wll be delivering the tablets to 8 provinces, including Khon Kaen.

I'm in Khon Kaen province and none have arrived at the local school as yet. Yes the school has electricity and air conditioning.

According to ferangled some little village by Udon Thani has them and all the kids are hooked into the internet. The village has a colored TV in every home. Funny I went to a friends wedding 2 years ago in a little village by Udon Thani and their was not one TV in the whole village. They didn't even have electricity in their school.

I took this from his post

It's clear that much of the rural North of Thailand has been deliberately marginalised and ignored for centuries; I find it quite ridiculous that somehow the current Government are expected to either magically solve the issues created by previous administrations and instantly modernise and improve vast swathes of infrastructure or deliberately take focus off improving the vast majority of schools that do have electricity and internet access, in favour of focusing on widespread improvements in the North which they would then be attacked on, for focusing on their own supporter base and not those in Bangkok and the South... it's a vicious non-nonsensical circle.

For some reason he is justafing the lack of electricity in these schools He is saying that it would take away from the rest of the nation. So I guess he is saying don't give to the really needy ones. It will take away some thing from the one's who all ready have lot's.

In my opinion all schools should be given equal treatment. That means bring the standards up in many of the schools even if it means they have to lower the standards in some of the schools. All children should be given equal opportunities to learn.

If people feel their kids deserve more than the poor kids put them in a private school don't ask the tax payers for special treatment of your little darlings.

I wonder if the fact that he has only been here for 5 months has any thing to do with his attitude towards the poor.

You're post is full of inaccuracies, what a surprise. My quote pointedly didn't mention tablets at all and was a general indication of the rate of infrastructure improvement in the rural North, the author having visited said village once under the Democrats and again under the current administration and was noting the changes. You miss the point that these infrastructure improvements are taking place...

I was simply explaining to those with somewhat limited powers of critical thinking that holding up the development of the vast majority of schools because a minority of rural schools still haven't even got electricity is madness. The infrastructure changes in these remote places will take time, the changes are happening as the quote suggests, but these aren't minor works that will happen overnight, also pointedly the current lack of facilities in these schools can't be blamed on the current administration who have been in power less than a year... well I guess they can be if you're completely blinkered and ignore common sense...

Your equal opportunities ideal is great but it is just that, an ideal, a dream, and as is evidenced by nations with much better existing infrastructures than Thailand this is not a reality anywhere. The rich do get better opportunities the world over, there are poor parts of countries and there are affluent areas. I never said these schools should be deprived of electricity and kept in the dark ages, as has suited the ruling classes for centuries, that was your "take" Dolly... your idea of lowering standards in other schools to create a level playing field is just insanity. Yes because a handful of schools don't have electricity we should cut the feeds to all school's in Thailand! Great idea... your logic is faultless!

The changes are happening, improvements are being noticed and time will tell whether the Thai electorate will respond by re-electing their chosen party. They're far from perfect but they certainly seem to be taking steps in the right direction albeit being held back by continual in-fighting and a less than functional opposition...

When will you understand the current administration is just an extension of Shinawatra governments going back to 2001.

The Dems were in power for 18 months while contending with the Red shirt rallies making them less than functional (but that was OK.right)

About schools. There ARE some schools that have a MUCH larger budget. Such as the university demonstration schools. Mahidol demonstration school for example has a HUGE lecture hall with all the bells and whistles. It is used infrequently.

Level playing field. That would be good.

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Please list the different PMs over the last 10 years and the manner in which they have left power... you're just being deliberately obtuse, ignoring the PAD rallies/ airport take overs, Tsunami, a few coups along the way which you don't consider to be conducive to having a less than functional Government?!!! Give me a break, the nonsense that gets spouted on here is nauseating.

Yes some schools have better facilities than others, no-one is disputing that, some have wealthy benefactors, others do not... your utopian ideal is charming but as realistic as a pink flying elephant... you will never have a level playing field across all schools anywhere, in any country, why do you expect this miracle to happen in Thailand?

At least the current administration are actually focused on improvements and bringing the rural North up to date rather than simply ignoring them and oppressing them as your old elites have done for centuries... but no it's back to Thaksin the devil man, responsible for all the problems in Thailand eh?!!! Get a grip.

Weren't you just chastising another member for not using the quote function properly? Please learn how to quote a post from another thread.

We do know how many have arrived from a collection of various threads. I was just rounding to be easy on the math.

It's been 105 + 5,000 + 73,000.

I'm going with 73,000 because, as already explained, it seems to be from historically more accurate news sources than the solitary The Nation quote. Surely you've seen the bashing The Nation gets for its inaccuracies in other threads. It's posted on every day in just about every news thread.

At the end of the day, we have 78,105 tablets in late July compared with the 11,000,000 tablets pledged for last May.

Yep, they're doing great.

.

I'll ignore your deliberate childish distraction and focus on your faulty arithmetic and factually incorrect numbers...

"We do know how many have arrived from a collection of various threads. I was just rounding to be easy on the math.

It's been 105 + 5,000 + 73,000.@

Really? You know this for sure despite already conceding that 73,000 could be 730,000... you also seem to be missing a batch here...

"ah yes, forgot the 10th announcement. At 134,000.... they've passed the 1% mark of their stated pledge and are well on their way to 2%."

Yes, clearly you were and still are just guessing at the numbers in the current batch... how does that fit in with your former assertions you were defending so vehemently?! You were, again by your own admission, incorrect and giving out false statistics,which is exactly what I picked up on with my first post!

Clearly my original point was accurate, you are simply conjuring up statistics! 2% of what? In what time-frame? 11,000,000 pledged for last May? What are you going on about? Last May? Complete inaccuracy & fabrication of "facts" seems to be a running trend in your posts...

Incidentally it's not just been reported at 730,000 by the Nation, that figure's been seized on by a number of sources... google is your friend Bulchholz.! I agree 73,000 would seem to fit the production capacity of the Chinese supplier better but we don't know for sure do we? So we are back to your false statistics, based on guess work and fabricated totals attached to a fabricated time-frame... Are you sure that you don't work for the Nation?!

They announced a week ago that they wll be delivering the tablets to 8 provinces, including Khon Kaen.

I'm in Khon Kaen province and none have arrived at the local school as yet. Yes the school has electricity and air conditioning.

According to ferangled some little village by Udon Thani has them and all the kids are hooked into the internet. The village has a colored TV in every home. Funny I went to a friends wedding 2 years ago in a little village by Udon Thani and their was not one TV in the whole village. They didn't even have electricity in their school.

I took this from his post

It's clear that much of the rural North of Thailand has been deliberately marginalised and ignored for centuries; I find it quite ridiculous that somehow the current Government are expected to either magically solve the issues created by previous administrations and instantly modernise and improve vast swathes of infrastructure or deliberately take focus off improving the vast majority of schools that do have electricity and internet access, in favour of focusing on widespread improvements in the North which they would then be attacked on, for focusing on their own supporter base and not those in Bangkok and the South... it's a vicious non-nonsensical circle.

For some reason he is justafing the lack of electricity in these schools He is saying that it would take away from the rest of the nation. So I guess he is saying don't give to the really needy ones. It will take away some thing from the one's who all ready have lot's.

In my opinion all schools should be given equal treatment. That means bring the standards up in many of the schools even if it means they have to lower the standards in some of the schools. All children should be given equal opportunities to learn.

If people feel their kids deserve more than the poor kids put them in a private school don't ask the tax payers for special treatment of your little darlings.

I wonder if the fact that he has only been here for 5 months has any thing to do with his attitude towards the poor.

You're post is full of inaccuracies, what a surprise. My quote pointedly didn't mention tablets at all and was a general indication of the rate of infrastructure improvement in the rural North, the author having visited said village once under the Democrats and again under the current administration and was noting the changes. You miss the point that these infrastructure improvements are taking place...

I was simply explaining to those with somewhat limited powers of critical thinking that holding up the development of the vast majority of schools because a minority of rural schools still haven't even got electricity is madness. The infrastructure changes in these remote places will take time, the changes are happening as the quote suggests, but these aren't minor works that will happen overnight, also pointedly the current lack of facilities in these schools can't be blamed on the current administration who have been in power less than a year... well I guess they can be if you're completely blinkered and ignore common sense...

Your equal opportunities ideal is great but it is just that, an ideal, a dream, and as is evidenced by nations with much better existing infrastructures than Thailand this is not a reality anywhere. The rich do get better opportunities the world over, there are poor parts of countries and there are affluent areas. I never said these schools should be deprived of electricity and kept in the dark ages, as has suited the ruling classes for centuries, that was your "take" Dolly... your idea of lowering standards in other schools to create a level playing field is just insanity. Yes because a handful of schools don't have electricity we should cut the feeds to all school's in Thailand! Great idea... your logic is faultless!

The changes are happening, improvements are being noticed and time will tell whether the Thai electorate will respond by re-electing their chosen party. They're far from perfect but they certainly seem to be taking steps in the right direction albeit being held back by continual in-fighting and a less than functional opposition...

The name of the scam is a clue.... OTPC (one table per child)....

It's not OTPP1C (one tablet per prathom 1 child).... it's not OTP12C (one tablet per 12 children - only one grade out of 12 grades total).

We've been over this before several times before on the forum, but I don't mind re-quoting again for the come-lately newbies full of vitriol, steam, and obfuscation:

The numbers and time frame:

=====================================================================================

Every student should have a tablet PC by May: Woravat

The government's One Tablet PC per Child policy will be fully implemented by May, Education Minister Woravat Auapinyakul pledged yesterday.

"We will try to give tablet PCs to all students in primary and secondary school," he said, adding that vocational students would also get the tablets.

http://www.thaivisa....by-may-woravat/

==================================================================================

I have nothing to retract as I never said that The Nation quoted 73,000.

Just the opposite, they say 730,000 while Bernama and TNA say 73,000. Again you say "multiple sources" say 730,000... but the only source linked you provided was The Nation's article.

I would tend to side with the accuracy of the latter two based on past experiences with their reporting versus The Nation's reporting. As said, that huge number isn't consistent with what the previous goal timelines were and the manufacturer's stated capacity of producing 12,228 units per day.

My initial 1% comes from the, (being generous again) 100,000 thus far delivered out of the 11,000,000 pledged.

It's actually less than 1%, but I rounded up..... to be generous to Yingluck.

"All primary, secondary, and vocational students" ≈ 11,000,000

,

Thanks for the link, your first post on that thread seems to contradict that this was the initial scheme...

Buchholz

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Posted 2011-12-15 06:54:26

The ever-changing goal posts.

This is a far cry from the latest previous change to issuing tablet computers to only selected first graders.

The new change will encompass around providing some 11 million tablet computers.... and in six months.

Something tells me this is not the last change in plans for the scheme. and the article gives us no indication of time-frame. Could it not be that

....and pointedly you admit that there is no indication of time-frame. Just thinking rationally here, I realise that's quite a shock being in Thailand, but if you were responsible for implementing such a scheme, would the prudent thing not be to start with 1st graders, issuing each year so that gradually the promise becomes a reality, rather than a mass handout to every single student in one hit? Seems logical to me...

My issue being that you start the thread unsure of whether 73,000 or 730,000 tablets have been delivered...

perhaps..... it's actually only 10% of what The Nation reported.

And then start to conjure up statistics based on "facts" that you are loosely interpreting...

so far it seems they've honored around 1% of their promised 11,000,000 tablets. Only 99% more to go.

Actually you don't know how many tablets have been delivered or how many are to be delivered this year, next year or the following year, neither do I, how could we? We don't even know the numbers of this shipment due to the conflicting reports but from that you start fabricating statistics and throwing them out there as proof that campaign promises are not being kept.

Ferangled said. "2 out of 2288 equates to 0.04% failure rate. I'm interested as to what you would consider an acceptable failure rate?"

well maybe the government measure would be a good starter..which is "Under the rules of the inspection, Chinnaphat said 500 units would be selected randomly from every 35,000 units, and only seven units were allowed to fail the test for the 35,000-unit lot to pass." Personally it would depend on what is contracted as a failure rate. how many get replaced ? is it only 7 out of 35,000, 7 out of 500 or ALL faulty units.

Ferangled said.

You do like to throw out totally random made up statistics don't you?! Care to back this up with some actual figures rather than just throwing a random % out based purely on your imagination?

Answer.. Phua Thai originally announced one tablet per child. Not one tablet per P1. Also note free wifi. dunno were that is. do you?

Ferangled said.

Your previous post is highly misleading in that the Nation actually reported 730,000 tablets, as did numerous other sources, while your Malaysian source, Bernama reported 73,000. Do you have any evidence to suggest which figure is correct or are you just cherry picking what suits your post best?

I have no idea.. but based on prev statements from MOE they would be way ahead of shedule.

Please try the quote function that has kindly been provided by the forum, it's rather handy and doesn't get into this he said, she said nonsense.

You seem to be quoting me but not actually refuting or replying to any of my points. Please feel free to post whatever you like but don't make nonsense non-replies to my posts, it's pointless. I'll make it very simple for you...

2 out of 2288 equates to 0.04% failure rate - acceptable or not, yes or no -

You do like to throw out totally random made up statistics don't you?! Care to back this up with some actual figures rather than just throwing a random % out based purely on your imagination?

Hint, this was directly related to the post I replied to so by quoting it out of context it is meaningless! To answer this question requires some statistical reference and basic maths. You did neither, so no, it's not an answer, at least not to my question. We could go on for years on this basis... what colour is your cat? answer what colour is your dog? answer what colour is your cat? etc etc ad nauseum and to no benefit to anyone remotely....

Your previous post is highly misleading in that the Nation actually reported 730,000 tablets, as did numerous other sources, while your Malaysian source, Bernama reported 73,000. Do you have any evidence to suggest which figure is correct or are you just cherry picking what suits your post best?

Hint, this was directly related to the post I replied to, which again you have lost by not using the quote function. A common theme but no, your answer doesn't get close to a reply. As the question was posed of another poster, I don't see why you deem yourself in a position to (not) answer this....

For my next trick I will have a conversation with a wall and try and provoke a stimulating and constructive conversation.... something tells me I may have a little more success with my concrete conversationalist....

It would probably be good if you had a conversation with a wall it may understand you and you may be able to change the question with out it noticing.. As far as answering you would actually have to be willing to read the answers. which you do not seem willing to do?

oh i used the quote feature lovely waste of space, It's certainly easier just to write what you said if i'm only answering that small part.

Sorry I have changed my original questions posed to Buchholz in what way? I appreciate you trying to reply for him but you haven't actually answered any of the questions, just engaged in more misdirection... answering a question with another question or "I have no idea" is just a total waste of time for all involved, hence my comment about talking to a wall, your reply was equally constructive...

Like it or not, the Government appears to be honouring this campaign promise.

so far it seems they've honored around 1% of their promised 11,000,000 tablets. Only 99% more to go.

.

You do like to throw out totally random made up statistics don't you?! Care to back this up with some actual figures rather than just throwing a random % out based purely on your imagination?

Your previous post is highly misleading in that the Nation actually reported 730,000 tablets, as did numerous other sources, while your Malaysian source, Bernama reported 73,000. Do you have any evidence to suggest which figure is correct or are you just cherry picking what suits your post best?

http://www.nationmul...e-30186897.html

http://news.thaivisu...mputers-arrive/

You do like to throw out totally random made up false comments about me, don't you?

I'm being generous when I say there's been a total of around 100,000 tablets delivered... out of the 11,000,000 promised.

What are the "numerous other sources" that say it's 730,000? Both of the links you posted are for the same source, The Nation's article.

Here's another source quoting the 73,000 figure. It's TNA, the Thai News Agency.

http://www.oananews....ed-thai-schools

It's also common sense, as rubl points out earlier, that larger number isn't due for weeks.

.

A notable lack of evidence to suggest that anyone has ever ordered or even proposed that 11,000,000 tablets have been promised within any defined time-frame... what a surprise.

Regarding the 730,000 or 73,000 I take it you are retracting your statement that the Nation reported 73,000? There are multiple sources quoting 73,000 and 730,000, which is correct?

And as for the larger number being on it's way then how exactly did you arrive at your initial 1% and again within what time-frame are we talking?

The smoke and mirror tactics continue...

http://www.guardian....kdown-redshirts

I've deleted all the selectively altered quotes and BS in your post and just left this link you provided as a clear indication to all just how deliberately you are twisting every source. These are directly quoted from the source you kindly provided a link to and are 1st hand witness accounts as to the events...

An AP reporter who followed the troops into the protest camp saw the bodies of two men sprawled on the ground, one with a head wound and other apparently shot in the upper body. They were the first known casualties in the assault that began before dawn on a 1km square stretch of downtown Bangkok that protesters have occupied.

Troops fired M-16 rifles at fleeing protesters and shouted: "Come out and surrender or we'll kill you."

An AP photographer saw three foreign journalists shot. One was an Italian photographer shot in the chest. His eyes were rolled back and he showed no signs of life. A Dutch journalist walked into the hospital with a bullet wound in his shoulder. The third journalist was a 53-year-old American documentary film-maker who was treated for a shot in the leg

Outnumbered and lacking firepower, however, the protesters suffered serious casualties. As the fighting intensified, shot demonstrators were being rushed to waiting ambulances.

I saw a Thai man shot as he crouched behind an ambulance which came to rescue him. After coming under fire the ambulance retreated leaving the man stranded in the street.

"Troops are moving into the redshirts central city protest camp firing indiscriminately, as they seek to take back control of the capital's streets.

I wonder why you carefully edited out these snippets from your quotes???

Your own explanation - "This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion" is quite clearly total BS and I suggest a more accurate response would be along these lines... this is to reduce the information in my post so that I can give a purely one sided and biased impression of the events, preventing anyone reading my post from having an informed opinion...

You are insulting to your own intelligence let alone that of others and those directly involved in the events of 2010.

Wow very damming evidence, I better hang my head in shame. How did omitting the paragraphs have any impact on my post about redshirts targeting journalist?????

Gee I dunno mate, how could selectively omitting every part of the source you have quoted that doesn't support the view you are trying to express have any impact on your post... hmmm... can anyone help to enlighten Waza? He seems a little lost and confused...

To Tom and Ferangled I challenge you both to provide evidence that I am suggesting that the Redshirts deliberately targeted Fabio, if you cant I expect an apology.

I did infact state quite clearly that, "It obvious that he was killed by the Thai military who may have mistaken him for a blackshirt given that he was running with the redshirts dressed in black paramilitary gear." in post #26, and revised it in post #29 due to further research to, " Hmmm obviously is the wrong word, I think its possible that he was killed by the RTA, its possible he was shot for his camera or its contents too." .

The other comments I made were on the topic of the stolen camera's and the fact that the, as the Ansterdamites termed "peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors" were infact violently targeting journalists.

I know you are upset Tom, about my suggestion that you choked on a penis joke but thats no reason to fabricate lies about my posts.

Hmmm no response?

Jeez mate, if you are waiting for an apology you'll be waiting a long time. Read what you wrote then read my response and try to sit down somewhere quiet and think about it. Your deliberate and selective quotes were obvious to the point of idiocy as was your ridiculous explanation. For convenience I'll copy and paste my response for you...

I've deleted all the selectively altered quotes and BS in your post and just left this link you provided as a clear indication to all just how deliberately you are twisting every source. These are directly quoted from the source you kindly provided a link to and are 1st hand witness accounts as to the events...

An AP reporter who followed the troops into the protest camp saw the bodies of two men sprawled on the ground, one with a head wound and other apparently shot in the upper body. They were the first known casualties in the assault that began before dawn on a 1km square stretch of downtown Bangkok that protesters have occupied.

Troops fired M-16 rifles at fleeing protesters and shouted: "Come out and surrender or we'll kill you."

An AP photographer saw three foreign journalists shot. One was an Italian photographer shot in the chest. His eyes were rolled back and he showed no signs of life. A Dutch journalist walked into the hospital with a bullet wound in his shoulder. The third journalist was a 53-year-old American documentary film-maker who was treated for a shot in the leg

Outnumbered and lacking firepower, however, the protesters suffered serious casualties. As the fighting intensified, shot demonstrators were being rushed to waiting ambulances.

I saw a Thai man shot as he crouched behind an ambulance which came to rescue him. After coming under fire the ambulance retreated leaving the man stranded in the street.

"Troops are moving into the redshirts central city protest camp firing indiscriminately, as they seek to take back control of the capital's streets.

I wonder why you carefully edited out these snippets from your quotes???

Your own explanation - "This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion" is quite clearly total BS and I suggest a more accurate response would be along these lines... this is to reduce the information in my post so that I can give a purely one sided and biased impression of the events, preventing anyone reading my post from having an informed opinion...

You are insulting to your own intelligence let alone that of others and those directly involved in the events of 2010.

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

"Chance's unfortunate demise..." I'll just point out that he didn't die. Learn what you spout about before, well, spouting. Furthermore I didn't say that Chance was specifically targeted. He happened to be in the place were a grenade launched from the Red Shirt side landed.

The rest of the drivel is not worth addressing.

I'd just like to point out that demise does not mean death exclusively, it equally refers to a halting of proceedings, actions etc eg the demise of accurate journalism due to fear triggered by the military targeting of journalists, but I appreciate your literary comment.

More distraction and a pointed absence of relevant comment, how refreshing!

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

How does a bullet ''stray'' ? The shooter makes the decision, and l would doubt that anyone was on auto.

Exactly

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

Ferangled said. "2 out of 2288 equates to 0.04% failure rate. I'm interested as to what you would consider an acceptable failure rate?"

well maybe the government measure would be a good starter..which is "Under the rules of the inspection, Chinnaphat said 500 units would be selected randomly from every 35,000 units, and only seven units were allowed to fail the test for the 35,000-unit lot to pass." Personally it would depend on what is contracted as a failure rate. how many get replaced ? is it only 7 out of 35,000, 7 out of 500 or ALL faulty units.

Ferangled said.

You do like to throw out totally random made up statistics don't you?! Care to back this up with some actual figures rather than just throwing a random % out based purely on your imagination?

Answer.. Phua Thai originally announced one tablet per child. Not one tablet per P1. Also note free wifi. dunno were that is. do you?

Ferangled said.

Your previous post is highly misleading in that the Nation actually reported 730,000 tablets, as did numerous other sources, while your Malaysian source, Bernama reported 73,000. Do you have any evidence to suggest which figure is correct or are you just cherry picking what suits your post best?

I have no idea.. but based on prev statements from MOE they would be way ahead of shedule.

Please try the quote function that has kindly been provided by the forum, it's rather handy and doesn't get into this he said, she said nonsense.

You seem to be quoting me but not actually refuting or replying to any of my points. Please feel free to post whatever you like but don't make nonsense non-replies to my posts, it's pointless. I'll make it very simple for you...

2 out of 2288 equates to 0.04% failure rate - acceptable or not, yes or no -

You do like to throw out totally random made up statistics don't you?! Care to back this up with some actual figures rather than just throwing a random % out based purely on your imagination?

Hint, this was directly related to the post I replied to so by quoting it out of context it is meaningless! To answer this question requires some statistical reference and basic maths. You did neither, so no, it's not an answer, at least not to my question. We could go on for years on this basis... what colour is your cat? answer what colour is your dog? answer what colour is your cat? etc etc ad nauseum and to no benefit to anyone remotely....

Your previous post is highly misleading in that the Nation actually reported 730,000 tablets, as did numerous other sources, while your Malaysian source, Bernama reported 73,000. Do you have any evidence to suggest which figure is correct or are you just cherry picking what suits your post best?

Hint, this was directly related to the post I replied to, which again you have lost by not using the quote function. A common theme but no, your answer doesn't get close to a reply. As the question was posed of another poster, I don't see why you deem yourself in a position to (not) answer this....

For my next trick I will have a conversation with a wall and try and provoke a stimulating and constructive conversation.... something tells me I may have a little more success with my concrete conversationalist....