Ferangled

The Dems seem intent on making Thaksin the centre of every single issue that the Thai government face.

The opposition seem so obsessed by the man that he is continually made pivotal to every decision in Thailand. By effectively blocking the NASA request and making this into yet another "Thaksin topic", the Dems are making waves while seemingly having little comprehension as to the ripples these will cause.

While the petty political bickering remains internal to Thailand, it remains of little concern to the real powers that be but when it starts impacting on them and their plans, we'll see where the real loyalties lie and quite how much clout can be used to force their will if required.

On the one hand you have a corrupt but willing bed fellow with close ties to the elected PM of Thailand, on the other a corrupt but unwilling bed fellow, who doesn't seem to know their place on the world stage and is showing dangerous leanings towards a rival power... Thai politicians would do well to study history before they tear this country apart.

Can you please state one matter that is NOT related to Thaksin with the current government? Just one!

When the cronies visited him in Lao and Cambodia, they spoke about him and addressed him as Prime Minister. Fully knowing that he is the real PM.

So how does blocking the US use of U Tapao help change that exactly?!

I know, we'll piss off the world's largest superpower, give them more reason to believe that Thaksin represents the best ally to them and less reason to believe that they'll ever get cooperation from the Dems... Way to stick it to the US! History has shown us what a great idea that is...

The Dems seem intent on making Thaksin the centre of every single issue that the Thai government face.

The opposition seem so obsessed by the man that he is continually made pivotal to every decision in Thailand. By effectively blocking the NASA request and making this into yet another "Thaksin topic", the Dems are making waves while seemingly having little comprehension as to the ripples these will cause.

While the petty political bickering remains internal to Thailand, it remains of little concern to the real powers that be but when it starts impacting on them and their plans, we'll see where the real loyalties lie and quite how much clout can be used to force their will if required.

On the one hand you have a corrupt but willing bed fellow with close ties to the elected PM of Thailand, on the other a corrupt but unwilling bed fellow, who doesn't seem to know their place on the world stage and is showing dangerous leanings towards a rival power... Thai politicians would do well to study history before they tear this country apart.

Can you please state one matter that is NOT related to Thaksin with the current government? Just one!

Errr... The use of U-Tapao... that's kind of the point!

It had absolutely nothing to do with Thaksin but the Dems made it into another Thaksin topic. There are literally hundreds of other issues relating to Thai politics that Thaksin is not pivotal to.

Both those in power and the opposition should be focused on a whole lot more than Thaksin, whether or not he's pulling the strings and whether or not he will return to Thailand, either as a free man or to face his sentence.

The Dems seem intent on making Thaksin the centre of every single issue that the Thai government face.

The opposition seem so obsessed by the man that he is continually made pivotal to every decision in Thailand. By effectively blocking the NASA request and making this into yet another "Thaksin topic", the Dems are making waves while seemingly having little comprehension as to the ripples these will cause.

While the petty political bickering remains internal to Thailand, it remains of little concern to the real powers that be but when it starts impacting on them and their plans, we'll see where the real loyalties lie and quite how much clout can be used to force their will if required.

On the one hand you have a corrupt but willing bed fellow with close ties to the elected PM of Thailand, on the other a corrupt but unwilling bed fellow, who doesn't seem to know their place on the world stage and is showing dangerous leanings towards a rival power... Thai politicians would do well to study history before they tear this country apart.

Please give details of this criminal act of perjury. Far too much mud slinging on here and impossible to tell fact from fiction without evidence.

Here is the closing of the perjury case against Yingluck. Basically they decided that she lied in court during Thaksin's asset concealment case, but for some weird reason they decided not to charge her.

http://www.thaivisa....p-shareholding/

Thank you.

So OzMick is simply engaging in slander against the Prime Minister "Yingluck has already committed at least one criminal act (perjury)", as in fact there was no charge, no case. The investigation was dropped, she wasn't charged and never went to court because under the law at that time no offence had been committed.

The Department of Special Investigation has dropped its investigation against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on the grounds for lack of cause to suspect a criminal offence.

Sorry but "Yingluck Shinawatra on the grounds for lack of cause to suspect a criminal offence" dosen't mean she is innocent they know she did it they just can't prove it.

No it doesn't, neither did I say that. You could apply the same logic to any person and any crime you can dream up though. Some would call that slander.

For example, if I believe you are a paedophile, I can't prove it and you've never been convicted of being one but I then start professing in public that you are a paedophile, I am engaging in slander.

That's the point I'm making, it's not hard to understand. Without evidence or prior conviction to support the statement you shouldn't make it in the first place. You could allude to it, but this is Thailand and you'd still be on fairly shaky ground. Of course we all know who controls the majority of the media here and it's probably not slandering Thakisn or Yingluck that would land you in trouble... hence the continual one sided mud slinging on here

Your opinion is based on a multitude of inaccuracies, misconceptions and ignorance which I have happily corrected for you point by point. It has nothing to do with "not appreciating that others think differently". Thinking differently is great. Thinking differently is what we need to solve the problems with the transport system. Having an opinion which is in stark contrast to reality, an opinion which you have made clear was formed due to the fact that in your singular, narrow experience, you believe the tuk tuk/transport problems haven't effected you personally, well that is the definition of self-centered and selfish. You can no longer play it off as ignorance as I have provided you with the facts. As I have established, and as the media has correctly reported repeatedly, the woeful transport system clearly effects everyone on the island in a multitude of ways, even if you don't realize it (are ignorant of it), or refuse to acknowledge it (self-centered).

I am glad you took the time to post your opinion, as I am certain you represent a small number of readers that are blissfully unaware of the seriousness of the situation. A lot of people don't bother to follow news and some have luckily avoided direct negative experiences. My numerous negative experiences with tuk tuks and the transport system in general living and working here for 11 years has echoed what I read in the news and what I hear from friends, and it's all bad. Start actually following the news and you will realize this.

I notice that you've failed to respond to any of the points raised in reply to yours and simply resorted back to slurs and insults.

As you're clearly not capable, I'll just agree to disagree and leave you to lose sleep over the terrible wave of tuk tuk violence and over pricing that's obviously making your life an absolute misery, you can simply label me ignorant and selfish because I don't agree with your blatant lies and over-dramatisation of the situation, whatever makes you happy...

"The roads are already gridlocked with tuk tuks!"

Agree, that was my point - how would that get better if all the tuk tuks took to the road at once as baht buses?

I never said that would be only thing that needs to be done. As I and many people, including the Patong police chief have correctly stated, there also needs to be less of them. Many, possibly most of the tuk tuk drivers aren't even fron Phuket, so they can go back home and do something else.

No, you did't and the quote you picked me up on was in direct reply to someone else. What is your point? That we agree and your just being argumentative for the sake of it/ having nothing better to do? Is Tourism that slow for you? Even though the tuk tuks, or at least the one imaginary driver you are "quoting", are raking it in?

"Most tuk tuks sit idle most of the time"

Agree, see above, see below...

"The rented tuk tuk drivers make no less than 20,000 in the low season and at least 50,000B a month in high season."

So by your own admission the vast majority of tuk tuks sit idle with no fares most of time, by your own admission there are far to many tuk tuks in Patong already; How does this support this fantasy figure that you have come out with? How if they are sitting idle, supply out weighing demand are these tuk tuks bringing in that much profit after paying the majority commission back to the controlling families?

Not a fantasy figure, and not my figure. The firgure was a quote from a driver. It was also echoed in an article where a driver of a private driver was interviewed. He has a lot of negative things to say about the tuk tuk mafia. They obviously make this much because of the high fares. They only need a few fares a day, 3-5 at 400B average, or 1 or 2 a day at a 1000B. You should be able to do that math. A taxi anywhere else in the world, including Bangkok, might have 15-25 fares a shift and still make less.

The tuk tuk drivers I know are struggling to make ends meet, they're not living in "nice, middle class homes", they are living in rented rooms with their entire families, working all hours to provide food and pay the rent. In years past they were doing better, earning commissions from entry to attractions, jewellery purchases etc and fares were less as a result. With the dramatic shift in tourist demographic this has dropped right off as more and more come simply to drink, party and sh@g prostitutes...

Sounds like you are describing Bangkok tuk tuk drivers. I'm talking about Patong/Kata/Karon drivers. It may not be as prifitable in town, as some have reported slightly better fares there, but still, a tuk tuk ride from the Bus station to Kata, 14km, is 500B. Exactly 5 times the price of an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi for that distance. The drinking, partying, shagging tourist describes perfectly the Patong tuk tuk customer demographic.

"Please explain how a baht bus system is going work only work for just the "privileged few" drivers"

Because as we both agree there are far too many tuk tuks in Patong already. Only a small fraction of the existing tuk tuks would be required to operate a baht bus service, that I agree, would be much more efficient and better for tourists. To put this in place 90% of the existing tuk tuks would have to be removed and lose their jobs.

I don't know what you on about. 90%? You just throwing darts now.

So again, you appear to agree given what you've said above, are quite willing to throw your own fantasy figures out there but pick up on the % given. The point being that most would lose their jobs which you have conceded already, apparently you just don't see it as an issue that would need addressing before any change could take place...

"A new tuk tuk is 325k"

Please post details where I can buy a new tuk tuk for 325,000 bt, I know people that would snap them up at that price and are paying considerably more to fix up old ones. This is an honest request for information, I'm not calling you a liar and would really be interested to know where this deal is to be had...

This is the price of the Dihatsu Hijet, one of the types of tuk tuks they use here. Feel free to prove me wrong. Google is your friend. This price does not include licensing and "membership fees" to the co-op, which in Patong alone are reported to be 6m baht a month.

Thanks for the info, I will check them out, I notice they are sold as 3, 6 or 15 passenger models. Remind me which are the popular tuk tuks in Patong?! So on the road how much do you think we're talking here? 6 Million bt a month, you must be right then, these guys are clearly raking it in!

This thread seems to have gone off topic from a fairly innocuous incident involving a tourist that was blatantly pushing his luck and a tuk tuk driver that lost his temper, to a general rant about tuk tuks in Phuket and how expensive and violent they all are. As far as I am concerned, the sentence was fair, the police and courts have done their jobs and contrary to the weight of opinion I think this is a positive sign of a possible clamp down in Patong. I would be happier still if the dreadful place just slid into the ocean never to be seen again, leaving the real Phuket to come out from it's stench into the limelight.

The warning has gone out previously to the tuk tuks. After a previous beating, a headline read something to the effect of "Governer warns Tuk tuks , violence against foriegners will not be tolerated." The previous governer even stepped in ordered bail to be denied to the tuk tuk driver in a previous case nearly identical to this one. So you can understand why those of us that live here and pay attention read that the sentence was suspended after these guys have been warned, we get frustrated. The price for battering a foriegner is 3000B, aparently.

This is about one guy not what others have done in the past. He has been tried for a minor offence and sentenced accordingly, as he would be in any Western court. His previous convictions are the only relevance, not other peoples.

I'm not going to get involved in debating the ills of Phuket's transport system as personally it suits me fine. I drive myself, enjoy a vibrant 2nd hand car market incurring minimal expense for personal transport and use known taxi drivers if I'm out drinking, again at minimal expense. I have no use for tuk tuks which I consider inherently dangerous and, as I have said, a novelty item for tourists. Thais I know here do exactly as I do, and very rarely have any use for the tuk tuks. Yes perhaps this would change if they were cheaper and better run, but there are far more pressing issues than tuk tuks that need attention in my mind.

And no, I don't own a hotel or work in the tourist industry. I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. My bad. Earlier you said office in Phuket town. I thought you said hotel. The tourist industry in Thailand has absolutely no bearing on my income and personally I prefer low season here, when most of the idiots this place seems to attract are not here!

I appreciate that tuk tuk prices and behaviour affect everyone differently and I am fortunate in that for me, they are a total irrelevance in everyday life. I understand what many are saying but would like all to understand that getting angry with the tuk tuk drivers will do nothing to change the situation, they are pawns in the system and are just doing a job. Shouting at them and arguing over small amounts of money is more likely to get you in trouble than anything and it's simply not worth the effort. Certainly not in this case where a 10 min stroll down the road would have surely been preferable to a punch in the face...

RE Your blue highlighted comments. This is the the common, natural death of the thread. You are indeed lucky that the tuk tuk's and Phukets overall transport problems don't appear to be personally an issue of you. That is always the situtation with posters that express the position you have. The supposition that because they aren't an issue for you, they must not be an issue for anyone else is very centristic and quote honestly very selfish. How nice that you don't rely on tourism. You are in the minority. Most of us foriegners that work here do rely on it. I don't use them either unless I have no other choice.

I don't appreciate the insults based solely on the fact my opinion differs from yours. It's not necessary. Nor is trying to sum up the opinions of everyone that differs to yours as selfish. Perhaps you are the one being selfish here, most foreigners that work here do not rely on Tourism. That's more fantasy talk I'm afraid. You choose, rather short sightedly, to ignore all the teachers, construction professionals, tradesmen, doctors etc Let aone those that don't work but live here, the retirees, those with 2nd homes, most whom this issue does not effect so profoundly as you.

Let's just agree to disagree shall we, it's really not worth the effort for me at least, as I said previously but you chose to ignore, I appreciate that others think differently. You it would appear do not.

There shouldn't be six people in a Tuk-tuk, let alone ten!

Exactly, a point that's being skirted over and dragged around the houses to use this thread as a vent for some pent up frustrations, possibly bad individual experiences with tuk tuks/ tuk tuk drivers in the past.

What other drivers have done in the past is irrelevant to a court faced with a driver who has no previous convictions and clearly lost his cool with an unreasonable, aggressive customer. Should this guy be held up and pinned to a cross for a very minor assault in the grand scheme of things?

Personally I think not and a fine and suspended 2 year prison sentence is in line with what most Western courts would have given.

ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

But that's true though, isn't it. And the likes of Chuwit isn't going to change that reality any time soon. There's always more ...

Exactly, Chuwit is just the bare faced realisation of that fact, open and proud of it for all the world to see.

As most Thais think that corruption is Ok, the more money you acquire the more Ok it is and something to be proud of I don't think his chosen course of action would be considered out of the ordinary here.

You made quite a few good points earlier, although I still say that he has a few axes to grind and more than one target, if he can bring down the whole flock of birds with one handful of thrown rocks, he will be more than happy.

Thank you and I agree with your statement that most here do believe corruption is acceptable. Changing that perception is the real battle here and isn't, in my opinion, best achieved by someone that has used the corrupt system to his advantage to make a fortune... what message is that sending to the Thai youth?

If he takes a few corrupt businesses down, great, I just wish people would look a bit further at what motivates him and not try to portray him as some sort of vigilante freedom fighter or national hero. Thailand is in dire need of a real hero, someone that will put the country before their own ego, political and financial gain.

For me Chuwit is not that person, far from it and even if his intentions were the very best the precedent he is setting by getting involved in politics is one that is very damaging to Thailand's international image.

ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

But that's true though, isn't it. And the likes of Chuwit isn't going to change that reality any time soon. There's always more ...

Ramming, did he really mean to say ramming the point home when talking about Chuwit?

KerryK, I can't help picturing Mr Strange from the Mary Whitehouse Experience whenever reading your posts... "Lovely...Milky, milky..."

You're not wearing an old mac are you?!

Chewit didn't "make millions in illegal activities" as running massage parlors is not illegal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3239931.stm

The Easter bunny is alive and well... for some at least .

The lost wallet test to see how many people would return a dropped wallet on the street..... http://www.xys.org/f.../4/155/242.html

Thailand actually did pretty well .

Norway 100%

Denmark 100%

Singapore 90%

New Zealand 83%

Finland 80%

Scotland 80%

Australia 70%

Japan 70%

South Korea 70%

Spain 70%

Austria 70%

Sweden 70%

U.S. 67%

England 67%

India 65%

Canada 64%

France 60%

Brazil 60%

Netherlands 60%

Thailand 55%

Belgium 50%

Taiwan 50%

Malaysia 50%

Germany 45%

Portugal 45%

Argentina 44%

Russia 43%

Philippines 40%

Wales 40%

Italy 35%

Switzerland 35%

China (Hong Kong): 30%

Mexico 21%

Great link, some of the individual tales make for interesting reading. Would love to see a breakdown by city... I bet there are certain places that really dragged the %s down, relying on others to boost them back up to a respectable level!

ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

But that's true though, isn't it. And the likes of Chuwit isn't going to change that reality any time soon. There's always more ...

Exactly, Chuwit is just the bare faced realisation of that fact, open and proud of it for all the world to see.

Personally I'd be more convinced if he didn't feel so compelled to bask in the limelight and try to garner as much media attention as possible. Is politics really the best place for a man that is publicly known to have made a fortune from illegal activities? Perhaps for his ego but certainly not for the international image of Thailand or the good of the country...

Surely some sizeable donations to related charities would be a better start, perhaps he could use that conveniently empty land on Sukhumvit to build a home for orphans born to mothers engaged in prostitution... Literally millions of ways to really help and use his ill gotten gains to benefit the public rather than engaging in a personal vendetta and promoting himself as a reformed character.

If he has really renounced his former ways wouldn't he feel compelled to renounce the massive fortune he amassed from it too?

"The roads are already gridlocked with tuk tuks!"

Agree, that was my point - how would that get better if all the tuk tuks took to the road at once as baht buses?

"Most tuk tuks sit idle most of the time"

Agree, see above, see below...

"The rented tuk tuk drivers make no less than 20,000 in the low season and at least 50,000B a month in high season."

So by your own admission the vast majority of tuk tuks sit idle with no fares most of time, by your own admission there are far to many tuk tuks in Patong already; How does this support this fantasy figure that you have come out with? How if they are sitting idle, supply out weighing demand are these tuk tuks bringing in that much profit after paying the majority commission back to the controlling families?

The tuk tuk drivers I know are struggling to make ends meet, they're not living in "nice, middle class homes", they are living in rented rooms with their entire families, working all hours to provide food and pay the rent. In years past they were doing better, earning commissions from entry to attractions, jewellery purchases etc and fares were less as a result. With the dramatic shift in tourist demographic this has dropped right off as more and more come simply to drink, party and sh@g prostitutes...

"Please explain how a baht bus system is going work only work for just the "privileged few" drivers"

Because as we both agree there are far too many tuk tuks in Patong already. Only a small fraction of the existing tuk tuks would be required to operate a baht bus service, that I agree, would be much more efficient and better for tourists. To put this in place 90% of the existing tuk tuks would have to be removed and lose their jobs.

"A new tuk tuk is 325k"

Please post details where I can buy a new tuk tuk for 325,000 bt, I know people that would snap them up at that price and are paying considerably more to fix up old ones. This is an honest request for information, I'm not calling you a liar and would really be interested to know where this deal is to be had...

This thread seems to have gone off topic from a fairly innocuous incident involving a tourist that was blatantly pushing his luck and a tuk tuk driver that lost his temper, to a general rant about tuk tuks in Phuket and how expensive and violent they all are. As far as I am concerned, the sentence was fair, the police and courts have done their jobs and contrary to the weight of opinion I think this is a positive sign of a possible clamp down in Patong. I would be happier still if the dreadful place just slid into the ocean never to be seen again, leaving the real Phuket to come out from it's stench into the limelight.

I'm not going to get involved in debating the ills of Phuket's transport system as personally it suits me fine. I drive myself, enjoy a vibrant 2nd hand car market incurring minimal expense for personal transport and use known taxi drivers if I'm out drinking, again at minimal expense. I have no use for tuk tuks which I consider inherently dangerous and, as I have said, a novelty item for tourists. Thais I know here do exactly as I do, and very rarely have any use for the tuk tuks. Yes perhaps this would change if they were cheaper and better run, but there are far more pressing issues than tuk tuks that need attention in my mind.

And no, I don't own a hotel or work in the tourist industry. I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. The tourist industry in Thailand has absolutely no bearing on my income and personally I prefer low season here, when most of the idiots this place seems to attract are not here!

I appreciate that tuk tuk prices and behaviour affect everyone differently and I am fortunate in that for me, they are a total irrelevance in everyday life. I understand what many are saying but would like all to understand that getting angry with the tuk tuk drivers will do nothing to change the situation, they are pawns in the system and are just doing a job. Shouting at them and arguing over small amounts of money is more likely to get you in trouble than anything and it's simply not worth the effort. Certainly not in this case where a 10 min stroll down the road would have surely been preferable to a punch in the face...

I'm not getting into it with you, you have proven again and again there is no point. You are incapable of rational thought and will call black white if it suits your position. Let alone changing your position as you go, making any exchange totally devoid of merit.

Some here are capable of holding a view at polar opposites with others and still debating it sensibly... you I'm afraid are clearly not. Let's just agree to disagree Pseudolous, before you drag us down to your level and start another slanging match.

Some here are capable of having a point of view. Others jump against them, never express clearly what they believe of think, and then spin around in circles all the time protesting that other people are daft. Just state clearly for the membership here what you actually believe. A simple yes or no to the following statement is all it willtake;

"I believe that because Chewit was a pimp before, we can not trust anything this man now does and always suspect that he is more interested in self publicising himself as opposed to doing something right, and fighting corruption. On this basis, nothing he ever says or does is of value to this country".

Yes or no. Is this your stance?

And as for your "I'm not getting into it with you, you have proven again and again there is no point" comment; correct. There is no point trying to smudge topics, spin around (hurling snide comments most of the time) not being in a debate but preferring to scorn others who do and expect me to take you seriously. Because I don't. Never will. Until you prove that you actually you have something to say that makes sense in relation to the topic at hand.

Everyone is capable of having a point of view, some are just better equipped to rationalise it, express it and defend it. Some people base their views on thought process and a balance of information, others just react to what's put in front of them.

If only it was all so simple, it would make it much easier if the world was simply black and white, yes or no, wouldn't it? The reality is quite different. There is no right or wrong answer, only a balance of ideas and opinions.

Try reading the posts on here, take your time, sit back and think a while, use a dictionary if necessary, you might have a moment of realisation that actually the topic isn't that simple. Or continue through life taking everything at face value, not looking at the motivation behind events, not questioning the reality that is laid out for you on a plate by those that which you to accept it as such... the choice is yours. I can't force anyone to think critically, only suggest that you look a bit further before defending what you couldn't possibly understand without digging a bit deeper.

I'm not hurling insults, calling people daft or trying to smudge the topic. Please stop trying to make this a slanging match, there's no purpose in trading insults. It gets us nowhere. You have one opinion, I have another, you can't understand what I'm saying, fine, I don't expect everyone to. I understand your position but can't agree with you, I prefer to keep an open mind and remain sceptical. I'm not one to defend something that is clearly not what it seems.

I'm suggesting that sometimes all is not what it appears to be and to see the reality of the situation you have to look a bit further than the press releases that are deliberately put in front of you. Sometimes things are exactly as they seem, sometimes they are not... make up your own mind, just don't expect everyone to agree with you. Everyone interprets events differently based on their own experiences and their own beliefs.

Please don't make the mistake of believing that you are part of some competition here and that there is a prize to win, there isn't, the only prizes on offer are in enlightenment and understanding, in seeing past the BS to the actual situation in front of you. This isn't about taking sides and winning brownie points, at least not for me, it's about debating what's put in front of you to gain insight into what other people think and perhaps, occasionally, learn something if you're capable of doing so...

Sorry your post is complete drivel. Using your latest analogy Chuwit should be handing out condoms to sex workers and offering advice on HIV and how to protect against it... not trying to get in the media at every opportunity to fulfill his own ambitions which lets face it have nothing to do with corruption, they have everything to do with the leverage of power and control.

lol - I did not put up an analogy of my own. Or are you thinking about the ex-smoker one? Poacher turned gamekeeper analogy basically; used to do something, now tries to fight against it.

So explain how my post is drivel? Explain what part of my post is not factually correct? Explain why you believe that you myopic impressions of life should be accepted as fact by everyone.

Poacher turned game keeper. Explain why that is bad? Every religion in the world says a man can change; the prison systems the same. Seems to me that every post you make is "complete drivel".

@OzMick - he does the BOLD trick all the time. I guess he thinks that by putting something in BOLD will ensure we accept that his words should be believed as fact. Personally I see it more as insecurity, like the guy in a meeting who starts to shout just because everyone else dismisses him as knowing nothing.

I'm not getting into it with you, you have proven again and again there is no point. You are incapable of rational thought and will call black white if it suits your position. Let alone changing your position as you go, making any exchange totally devoid of merit.

Some here are capable of holding a view at polar opposites with others and still debating it sensibly... you I'm afraid are clearly not. Let's just agree to disagree Pseudolous, before you drag us down to your level and start another slanging match.

Sorry your post is complete drivel. Using your latest analogy Chuwit should be handing out condoms to sex workers and offering advice on HIV and how to protect against it... not trying to get in the media at every opportunity to fulfill his own ambitions which lets face it have nothing to do with corruption, they have everything to do with the leverage of power and control.

How is "police taking payments to keep casinos open" NOT corruption?

Clearly it is, my point being is that really Chuwit's main motivation, to stamp out corruption?! There's a fair bit of evidence to suggest otherwise...

Please, believe what you like, take the controlled media portrayal of the man anyway you like, I can't force anyone to think critically... that's up to each individual to do for themselves.

When you insult everyone that disagrees with your plan to exterminate half of Thailand expect the Mods to delete your rantings.... you may have noticed they deleted my replies to your crazed slurs too. I notice the overwhelming support you received on that thread!!! Not one to bear a grudge eh?!

A better analogy for Chuwit would be a mafia boss, who facing conviction turns super grass in return for immunity. His past deeds are forgotten, his criminal proceeds left alone, while he selectively gives evidence to convict his enemies, paving the way for his friends to do business unhindered.

What a hero, what a message this man has for the people, a true role model for the children of Thailand, ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

Very poor analogy (even for you) unless you are comparing him to a mafia boss being extorted by the mafia. He ran a series of business interests that regardless of the fake "uuuurgghh this does not happen in Thailand" responses from the politicians and moral high ground tools, is patronised, supported and owned by most of the people that look down on it - bunch of hypocrites. To run this business, he handed over millions of baht each month to the same people who show moral outrage on the outside whilst at night wetting their johnsons in the girls that worked for him. They relied on his businesses to influence the Japanese, French, Italian, you name it, nationalities to get business. It got to the point where he was about to be killed having been arrested by one of the people who were extorting his money (guess he wanted more black money than Chuwit would give, or were after the big prize, a few Billion in confiscated assets) so he went public. You don't know what you are talking about, and I hope you have never drunk a beer in a bar with working girls there of banged a bar girl because if you have, you have, you are just as big a hypocrite.

No matter what his past is, he is having an impact and actually fighting for something good; something by the way that no other Thai politician is seriously trying to confront. Regardless of anything in his past, this should be applauded and anything contrary is myopic ramblings.

Poacher turned Gamekeeper. All throughout history there has been no better way to combat a crime and no matter which country you come from, this method is used all the time.

Sorry your post is complete drivel. Using your latest analogy Chuwit should be handing out condoms to sex workers and offering advice on HIV and how to protect against it... not trying to get in the media at every opportunity to fulfill his own ambitions which lets face it have nothing to do with corruption, they have everything to do with the leverage of power and control.

1/ I sincerely apologise for bolding a single word in your otherwise untouched quoted post. Good distraction from the points raised and totally irrelevant.

2/ So you agree, no one forced Chuwit to get involved in this illegal enterprise which involved him paying bribes to police to hide his illegal activities and prevent his prosecution. That was simply a lie you put out to make your post more convincing. Seems to have worked to, the man's done extremely well from it to the point that he's been able to retire.

3/ I have only pointed out the man's past. I guess the fact he has made billions of baht from an illegal enterprise is fine as long he says, I've stopped now, now I'm a good guy. No assets seized, no punishment, let's just forgive and forget. By the same token if Thaksin came back and said you know what I'm a reformed character, let's all just get along you'd become a staunch supporter of his? Or if an armed robber said hey I'm done robbing banks, I'm keeping the money I stole but will now start doing charity work, all would be forgiven, eh?!

4/ Clearly not true, you selectively apply it only when it supports your political leanings as evidenced by your postings on TV.

1/ Good - don't do it, especially as a nitpick to change the topic. 2/ Nobody forced him into an illegal enterprise, but plenty of people are FORCED to make illegal payments to police to stay in business in both legal and illegal enterprises. 3/ Chuwit was involved in an illegal business in which both customers and workers were voluntarily involved. If you can't pick the difference between that and government corruption or armed robbery, that is your problem. 4/ I have made many posts decrying police corruption, especially police making extrajudicial penalty pronouncements which allow rich perpetrators to walk without any criminal conviction. 5/ My friends call me Mick. You can call me Mr.Oz or preferably my full name.

1. Topic remains unchanged. Bolding a word in your post to highlight your deliberate twisting of the facts didn't effect the topic.

2. Starting an illegal enterprise and making illegal payments to keep it "above the law" was Chuwit's own decision. No one forced him to a life of crime. Don't paint him as a victim the man's a billionaire through prostitution.

3. Really, are you sure? Not according to some of his former workers. Unfortunately they didn't have the same level of funds to engage private lawyers to properly represent them. They were trying to swim against the tide of corruption while Chuwit swims with it.

4. In a blatantly selective and biased fashion, much like a blinkered carthorse, unable to see what's happening all around them because they are so focused on their end goal. The family you obsess about, the sacrificial lamb that has been offered up to absolve the guilt of hundreds of similar characters and families, many more sinister that you choose to ignore.

5. You can call me the Scarlet Pimpernel if you like, but again it's irrelevant to the points raised!

<snip>

A better analogy for Chuwit would be a mafia boss, who facing conviction turns super grass in return for immunity. His past deeds are forgotten, his criminal proceeds left alone, while he selectively gives evidence to convict his enemies, paving the way for his friends to do business unhindered.

What a hero, what a message this man has for the people, a true role model for the children of Thailand, ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

Would you prefer he not say / do anything?

I'd prefer he didn't make this a massive publicity stunt deliberately for his own benefit while offering up a pretence of being an anti-corruption vigilante. If he really wanted to strike out against corruption he wouldn't engage in this dramatic display and courting of the media, who we all know are hardly impartial in Thailand.

Do you really think he isn't selectively giving information to achieve his own aims?

Chuwit has made plain statements that he is against police corruption after being forced to pay millions in bribes in his former business. His past actions have backed those statements. Why is it surprising that The Shinawatra clan gets a mention when one of them is the Chief of Police and another is alleged to be in the illegal gambling business?

Chuwit paid bribes to keep his illegal prostitution business running... police corruption exists because of the likes of Chuwit!

You painting him as a poor innocent businessman being forced to pay bribes is either incredibly naive or deliberately deceitful. Which is it I wonder Mick?

If he wasn't engaged in an illegal enterprise he wouldn't have had to pay anyone to keep quiet, why? Because there would have been nothing for anyone to keep quiet about!!!

You seem to miss the point that without those seeking to conduct illegal enterprises and paying whatever it takes to achieve their aims, there would be no corruption.

For one who likes to give off the impression of being a crusader for justice (at least when it comes to obssessing over one man/ family) you are incredibly selective in your reasoning to the point of being totally blinkered.

1/ it is against forum rules to modify my post - please desist.2/ I was being neither naive or deceitful, and it is well understood that Chuwit's former business was illegal. He has now ceased trading in that business and is an MP, certainly more respect-worthy than some of the violent criminals sitting on the government bench.3/ It takes 2 to tango, and he has handed in his dance card. Obviously the BIB are still on the dance-floor. There is no indication that his claims are false, so why do you persist in denigrating the man when he is pointing out obvious corruption.4/ I will declaim corruption wherever I see it. This case is all the sweeter when it targets 2 of my favourite subjects. But keep trying to switch the focus, even if it doesn't work.

Careful now - he will go running to the Mods if you are not careful and immediately agree with his muddled logic.

Chuwit has a bad bad past but the moment he was hung out to dry by the people he had been paying to protect him he had a simple choice. Die (he would have been killed) or being the worm that turned and fight them. He kept a record of every official be it politician / copper... everyone that partook in his particular offering. It is a fair bet that the majority of males in politics, the police, the Army etc are all on his books somewhere from using his service as well as getting paid from it. So, he cleaned up his act, said if he dies or is fitted up, he will release all the details tearing asunder all of the HiSo families who pretend that the Patriarch of the family is not out whoring every night. I equate him to an ex smoker sitting in the pub talking about why it is bad to smoke and how much better life is now that he has quit. Just because he is being a hypocrite, does not mean that the message is wrong, has no value, and is not a benefit to those listening.

He's a dead man walking though. He knows it. So he should be applauded for doing what ever he can whilst he awaits his "accident".

When you insult everyone that disagrees with your plan to exterminate half of Thailand expect the Mods to delete your rantings.... you may have noticed they deleted my replies to your crazed slurs too. I notice the overwhelming support you received on that thread!!! Not one to bear a grudge eh?!

A better analogy for Chuwit would be a mafia boss, who facing conviction turns super grass in return for immunity. His past deeds are forgotten, his criminal proceeds left alone, while he selectively gives evidence to convict his enemies, paving the way for his friends to do business unhindered.

What a hero, what a message this man has for the people, a true role model for the children of Thailand, ramming the point home to all that Thailand is a haven for criminals, a land where you can make millions in illegal activities and not only escape prosecution but become a public figure and politician off the back of your illegal exploits.

Chuwit has made plain statements that he is against police corruption after being forced to pay millions in bribes in his former business. His past actions have backed those statements. Why is it surprising that The Shinawatra clan gets a mention when one of them is the Chief of Police and another is alleged to be in the illegal gambling business?

Chuwit paid bribes to keep his illegal prostitution business running... police corruption exists because of the likes of Chuwit!

You painting him as a poor innocent businessman being forced to pay bribes is either incredibly naive or deliberately deceitful. Which is it I wonder Mick?

If he wasn't engaged in an illegal enterprise he wouldn't have had to pay anyone to keep quiet, why? Because there would have been nothing for anyone to keep quiet about!!!

You seem to miss the point that without those seeking to conduct illegal enterprises and paying whatever it takes to achieve their aims, there would be no corruption.

For one who likes to give off the impression of being a crusader for justice (at least when it comes to obssessing over one man/ family) you are incredibly selective in your reasoning to the point of being totally blinkered.

1/ it is against forum rules to modify my post - please desist.2/ I was being neither naive or deceitful, and it is well understood that Chuwit's former business was illegal. He has now ceased trading in that business and is an MP, certainly more respect-worthy than some of the violent criminals sitting on the government bench.3/ It takes 2 to tango, and he has handed in his dance card. Obviously the BIB are still on the dance-floor. There is no indication that his claims are false, so why do you persist in denigrating the man when he is pointing out obvious corruption.4/ I will declaim corruption wherever I see it. This case is all the sweeter when it targets 2 of my favourite subjects. But keep trying to switch the focus, even if it doesn't work.

1/ I sincerely apologise for bolding a single word in your otherwise untouched quoted post. Good distraction from the points raised and totally irrelevant.

2/ So you agree, no one forced Chuwit to get involved in this illegal enterprise which involved him paying bribes to police to hide his illegal activities and prevent his prosecution. That was simply a lie you put out to make your post more convincing. Seems to have worked to, the man's done extremely well from it to the point that he's been able to retire.

3/ I have only pointed out the man's past. I guess the fact he has made billions of baht from an illegal enterprise is fine as long he says, I've stopped now, now I'm a good guy. No assets seized, no punishment, let's just forgive and forget. By the same token if Thaksin came back and said you know what I'm a reformed character, let's all just get along you'd become a staunch supporter of his? Or if an armed robber said hey I'm done robbing banks, I'm keeping the money I stole but will now start doing charity work, all would be forgiven, eh?!

4/ Clearly not true, you selectively apply it only when it supports your political leanings as evidenced by your postings on TV.

Amazing that a former pimp became more Catholic than the pope himself. Chuwit should have been serving a 20 year or so jail term for trafficking very young children, beating up bar owners at Sukhumvit and falsely imprisoning girls as well as physical and mental tortures of minors by his mengdaas. It says a lot about the Nation that they are willing to put a criminal like Chuwit on the front page and let him take the high ground. It seems everything is allowed to bring the Democrat party back into power. As they cannot win elections they need a bit of help and even help from the scum of the earth seems fine. Chuwit is certainly not the reliable "character witness" the press should hold him for.

Where did you find this information about young children and imprisoning girls? I think you are making it up. If you are, and I think you are, that is very bad. If you can't provide some sort of factual basis for saying that I think your post should be removed. You will notice I said young children and imprisoning girls.

I recall a related charge that Chuwit was cleared of...

The Court of Appeals acquitted massage parlour tycoon Chuwit Kamolwisit of procuring three underage girls to work as prostitutes in one of his establishments. The court upheld the verdict by the Criminal Court in 2004 which ruled that Mr Chuwit and his Therme Ltd partnership, operators of Honolulu Massage Parlour, could not be held responsible for the sex services provided by the three girls at the parlour.

Mr Chuwit was taken to court after the girls sought help from the foundation Pavena Hongsakul, saying they were forced by a man to provide sex services at the parlour. They claimed they had worked for seven months without payment because the man kept it for himself for making them fake identification cards. The court said the girls did not prove that Mr Chuwit and Therme were involved in making them the fake IDs.

Please give details of this criminal act of perjury. Far too much mud slinging on here and impossible to tell fact from fiction without evidence.

Here is the closing of the perjury case against Yingluck. Basically they decided that she lied in court during Thaksin's asset concealment case, but for some weird reason they decided not to charge her.

http://www.thaivisa....p-shareholding/

Thank you.

So OzMick is simply engaging in slander against the Prime Minister "Yingluck has already committed at least one criminal act (perjury)", as in fact there was no charge, no case. The investigation was dropped, she wasn't charged and never went to court because under the law at that time no offence had been committed.

The Department of Special Investigation has dropped its investigation against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on the grounds for lack of cause to suspect a criminal offence.

You're quite correct. She wasn't charged with perjury. But she is a proven liar.

Sent from my shoe phone

I thought that was the first qualification in becoming a Thai MP...

In any such high profile case, the matter should be decided in a court of law rather than a decree by some morally malleable and politically influenced lackey, if only to remove any suspicion of evasion. In this case, the perception is based on fact - there is very little wiggle room when you say "those shares are mine" and the judge decides they were not.

For something to get to court there has to be a case to answer first and sufficient evidence to charge that person, otherwise the system would grind to a halt with all the political mudslinging and trumped up law suits that are part and parcel of Thai politics.

Clearly there wasn't but don't let that stop you hijacking yet another thread to obsess over one particular family.

Here was I thinking only carthorses wore blinkers....

Chuwit has made plain statements that he is against police corruption after being forced to pay millions in bribes in his former business. His past actions have backed those statements. Why is it surprising that The Shinawatra clan gets a mention when one of them is the Chief of Police and another is alleged to be in the illegal gambling business?

Chuwit paid bribes to keep his illegal prostitution business running... police corruption exists because of the likes of Chuwit!

You painting him as a poor innocent businessman being forced to pay bribes is either incredibly naive or deliberately deceitful. Which is it I wonder Mick?

If he wasn't engaged in an illegal enterprise he wouldn't have had to pay anyone to keep quiet, why? Because there would have been nothing for anyone to keep quiet about!!!

You seem to miss the point that without those seeking to conduct illegal enterprises and paying whatever it takes to achieve their aims, there would be no corruption.

For one who likes to give off the impression of being a crusader for justice (at least when it comes to obssessing over one man/ family) you are incredibly selective in your reasoning to the point of being totally blinkered.