15Peter20

Right, that does it. All Dems and their violent thugish yellow guards are into violence and intimidation for ever more, and I will now spend the next 3 years on TV branding anyone that disagrees with me as a supporter of violence and/or paid proxy of agitators. If any of the yellows (who I will henceforth term as 'scum' regardless of age, gender or manner) subsequently damage my car or are rude to anyone I know, that time limit may be extended further. Sane readers of TV, consider yourselves warned.

You people are hilarious. Wasn't the blocking of traffic 3 years ago Reason No.752 to hate the red shirts?

And now - with the 'all new traffic-friendly Yellow/Dem demo' - not only will traffic somehow not worsen but some genius has even posted that the overall traffic situation will improve because of the demo.

Unbelievable. But very amusing. Do carry on. I'm sure y'all will.

You bet we will!!

Not so stupid as you think it is.

If for example all of the bus drivers were on strike in Bangkok and were busy blocking the roads with their presence - are you likely to see less or more buses on the road??

I assume you thought less - well 50,000 protesters with a large amount of them (in relatively affluent Bangkok) owning cars, protest by blocking the roads is the traffic going to be greater or less??

Bear in mind that people will move onto the trains to get to work, won't go shopping in those affected areas and avoid these particular roads - so less traffic or more??

I'm guessing that you want to think more but can't help thinking "actually it will be less"!!

I see it wasn't only in the last line of your post in which you were guessing. Your mixture of opinions and assumptions may be right, but then again may not be. The real question is, how persuasive is your argument? I'd give it 5/10 as I don't agree with all the assumptions you made. Some, but not all.

Anyway, what I'd really like to know is whether you were one of those people who added increased traffic congestion during the 2010 demo to your list of reasons to hate the red shirts. If so, I'd appreciate it if you could now use your imagination and assumptions to contrive a reason why red shirt demos lead to more traffic than dem/yellow shirt demos. This invitation also extends to any other interested poster, by the way. Thanks.

You people are hilarious. Wasn't the blocking of traffic 3 years ago Reason No.752 to hate the red shirts?

And now - with the 'all new traffic-friendly Yellow/Dem demo' - not only will traffic somehow not worsen but some genius has even posted that the overall traffic situation will improve because of the demo.

Unbelievable. But very amusing. Do carry on. I'm sure y'all will.

I think the general arc of events in Thai politics over the past 20 years has generally been towards development and maturation.

What is particularly interesting is that in recent years we've had both red shirts (with their pressure on a military-backed post-coup government) and now the yellows/dems (preventing the blanket amnesty) guiding the trajectory of political development in Thailand towards what we would call a more developed democracy regulated by the rule of law.

Political activism backed by popular demand is increasingly pulling the strings which previously were the private domain of a very few at the top of Thai society.

Call my office this morning.

Guess what.

I am the only one who did not turn up.

And about tax, my HR say they will deduct from my pay cheque as usual, and deliver to RD as usual.

I had always thought that my company support Suthep / Mark / PAD / Yellow / Multi Color/ Coup etc

A couple of questions:

1) Did you not discuss the possibility, beforehand, of not turning up to work with your friends in the office?

2) Do you have any friends in the office?

We only have Yingluk and Thaksin's word that the bill will not become law in 180 days, and that is worth SFA.

Are people not allowed to express anger at the hubris of a government prepared to foist an an amnesty on the country that was so obviously self-serving? Can't you see that this is corruption, especially when the WHOLE party is prepared to follow the orders of a fugitive convicted criminal?

And can't you see that the issues of Thaksin's corruption and the rice scheme were around long before the events of the past week unfolded, but when yellow-associated groups staged demonstrations about those issues, very few people turned up and they invariably had to be called of after a day or so?

With the government's climb down over amnesty, and the ICJ ruling on the temple out of the way, those issues are the only ones remaining again but the dems/yellows want to ride the wave of dissatisfaction caused by the amnesty bill screw-up to achieve the same ends they were aiming to achieve when only a matter of a few hundred or a few thousand people turned up to their earlier events.

Hence the opportunistic rabble rousing I mentioned earlier.

Nothing to worry about then, the people will disperse and the rally peter out to a natural end. Or maybe, the people are now warned by the underhand way the government rewrote the amnesty bill and rammed it through parliament at 3 in the morning, not caring that thousands of corruption cases would also be affected, in fact even belittling that fact in one of the PM's speeches. The trust of the people is something this government does not have, and who are you to say the people should or should not protest against a government that has continually lied to them while raping the country for the benefit of its own vote buying schemes and inflated bank accounts?

.and who are you to say the people should or should not protest against a government that has continually lied to them while raping the country for the benefit of its own vote buying schemes and inflated bank accounts?

Who am I? I'm an anonymous poster with an opinion that may or may not be reasonable - just like you. Am I allowed to exist on Thai Visa or are some posters more worthy of voting...err...I mean posting, than others?

Unlike you and others like you on here though, I don't feel it necessary to bore everyone else who reads these threads to tears by laboring the same emotive hyperbole day after day.

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

We only have Yingluk and Thaksin's word that the bill will not become law in 180 days, and that is worth SFA.

Are people not allowed to express anger at the hubris of a government prepared to foist an an amnesty on the country that was so obviously self-serving? Can't you see that this is corruption, especially when the WHOLE party is prepared to follow the orders of a fugitive convicted criminal?

And can't you see that the issues of Thaksin's corruption and the rice scheme were around long before the events of the past week unfolded, but when yellow-associated groups staged demonstrations about those issues, very few people turned up and they invariably had to be called of after a day or so?

With the government's climb down over amnesty, and the ICJ ruling on the temple out of the way, those issues are the only ones remaining again but the dems/yellows want to ride the wave of dissatisfaction caused by the amnesty bill screw-up to achieve the same ends they were aiming to achieve when only a matter of a few hundred or a few thousand people turned up to their earlier events.

Hence the opportunistic rabble rousing I mentioned earlier.

Hah! nice job on this in the last election ... Corporate Cash can't ante up to People Power...just watch & see curbside, apart from the CRAP fight in the monkey-house in the latest Battle of the Demagogues! Release The Krakon! ;-} rap.

This one of the most sensible posts I've seen on this news forum.

Nice hat that one witchy lady is wearing. Indicative of the type of government the red shirt wasteoids want in place.

I quite like the idea of a green government, and on that basis alone I wish them the best of luck!

I see some red shirt leaders are so worried at losing the Thaksin dollar for abstaining during the vote for the bill that they are back in the Party ranks

Only seems 5 minutes ago that they were also protesting the bill.

It hasn't been rejected by the senate at all

It will be interesting to see how many they can muster. Is see there are sizable anti government protests around the globe

Will the orders from afar be to create mayhem?

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Why would there be 'orders from afar to create mayhem'? Don't understand the logic behind this. Surely it's in the government's interests to calm things down and maintain stability, not pour fuel on the fire? At this point I'm 99% amnesty is dead. Of course, one can't be a 100% sure there won't be another move of astounding stupidity, but I think it's pretty clear that the government have backed down, and senate leader already said they would reject it.

Anyway, just spotted an interesting series of tweets by Matt Wheeler of International Crisis Group:

1: Hardcore RS upcountry just cited to me Anek's thesis. "Rural ppl choose govt, BKK ousts it. Not this time. If DP persists, it's war."

2: Furious lobbying of local RS leaders by UDD and PT last few days. Most hurt, but blame Army/DP for '10 deaths, not TS

3: They back amnesty because see no way AV/ST punished by courts. And they always wanted TS back.

4. Split among Reds quite real. Jatuporn has another source of $, but uncertain now w/ anti-TS forces on streets, amnesty dead.

--

A while back I heard that Jatuporn was ready to split from TS after not receiving a cabinet seat. Friend of a friend said Jatuporn said to a group of people: 'I brought Thaksin back up, and I can bring him back down'. Doesn't say much for Jatuporn if he actually said that because it means he seems to think that he's single-handedly responsible for Thaksin's popularity. Not lacking for confidence, anyway.

Just FYI, a red shirt person I know (of the 'progressive' type since 2010) went to a red shirt rally in Lampun about a week ago. Nattawut and Jatuporn were there. At one point my friend went up to Nattawut and asked for a photo with him, and if it would be okay to hold up a sign whilst standing next to him. He said 'let's have a look at the sign first'. It read 'No to amnesty'. He said 'Okay'. Similar signs could also be seen whilst Jatuporn was speaking.

EvilDr --

Thanks for the reply.

I am sure that some events etc in certain areas have been cancelled or put on hold but by far and away life is going on as normal. The fall-out from living and doing business in a politically unstable country can be enormous but if I had my 'druthers this episode would go on until it reached some terminal conclusion instead of just being put on the back burner again. better 3 months now than 1 month every year for the foreseeable future! Every year this goes on it will drive more international events away from Thailand for a longer and longer time.

This is practically an exact repetition of what red shirt supporters on here were saying during the 2010 demonstrations. Just an observation.

Well, Suthep has been engaged in his Rachadamnoen Rant for about an hour now and is still going strong. He has thrown down an ultimatum to Yingluck. Drop the amnesty bill by 6pm on Monday or else...

Other things I noticed were a sign with Taksins face on it saying 'Wanted-Dead or Alive', and also that they are showing crowd pictures chiefly of noticeably younger people than at previous yellow or red rallies.

Good opinion piece for a change from the Nation.

There were 11 red shirt leaders in parliament at the time of the vote. Seven voted for it and four abstained. Not a single one of them put their principles, or wishes of the grass roots members, on the line and voted against it. So, yes, things have moved on since the old PTP = Redshirts equation. It's very clear that for their leaders, PTP > Redshirts. It's also surprising that Thiida is remaining so quiet about all this. Surely she should be calling the troops to action? But since the paymaster is hardly likely to finance a rally against himself, maybe it isn't so surpising after all.

The connection may be getting weaker ballpoint but Thida the red shirt leader is the wife of Weng a PT MP.

A bit difficult to divorce (for want of a better word) that connection.

Come to think of it ; not a peep out of Jutaporn, wonder where he has got to?

Whether or not you get a peep out of someone is solely down to the news sources you rely on. Jatuporn and Nattawut were a couple of days ago up north making speeches in front of red shirts who are opposed to amnesty. They were pictured next to signs calling for no amnesty.

PTP = Red Shirts 555

Now you people finally realize how spurious this always was. Disingenuous BS for simple-minded reasoning.

If a newly proposed amendment were adopted, the government would have even more latitude to muzzle the independent and opposition media.

Hooray for Red/PTT democracy!

Three cheers for striving for Rank 179! It's within grasp.

Do you think Reds/PTT are anti-monarchy? If so, why has this low ranking been supported through the tightening of anti lese-majeste legislation? I would be fascinated to glance at your speculation.

Contrary to the headline, the Democrat Party is not set for a structural shakeup.

It is set for its reform panel to continue beating its head on a brick wall trying to shake off the vested interests that have made it unelectable for 21 years.

Still, I like the panel's sentiment.

Although only anti-government protesters are mentioned I assume also the upcoming anti-anti-government protests will be suspended, like the one planned for Chatuchak ?

Well if there isn't an anti-government rally, then how could there possibly be an anti-anti-government rally?

A chicken-and-egg problem it ain't.

So he says they won't act like red shirts but then openly calls for the seizure of town halls the length and breadth of the country. Are peaceful demonstrators both able and allowed to do that?

He's already started on a war footing with that announcement. the unknown factor is how much support he'll get nationwide. If yellow-associated anti-gov demos of recent months have been anything to go by, he might get away with occupying a few car parks and maybe a restaurant or two.

Where is the violence in sitting on steps and in offices?

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The violence would only come if those people were legally asked to leave but didn't. There are precedents for this happening.

Would you not agree that having lots of people sitting on steps and offices in civic administrative centers would cause a hindrance to the proper running of those places?

I can't wait for him or you or anybody else on here justify firing live rounds at a person even he is "armed" with a slingshot, rock or even a molotov cocktail.

Try walking out onto the street tomorrow with any one of those weapons, and aim it at either an armed soldier or an armed policeman.

If you aren't in Thailand, not to worry, pretty much anywhere in the world will do. Report back tomorrow on how you got on.

Perhaps so in some countries. However very few countries ( or commentators away from this forum) would see that as justification for opening fire from an elevated railway track on unarmed civilians, sheltering in a temple.

It was premeditated cold blooded murder. And it happened on Abhisits watch. We will probably never know who ordered it, but Abhisit was the Prime Minister when it happened, and he remained in office afterwards.

Black shirt snipers at temple.jpg They look like blackshirts with m16s firing into the temple to me

Strange, the way they look like soldiers to me...

Did 200 in a ford focus between Uttaradit and Phitsanulok. Was just testing it out and that kind of speed can only be done safely on a few Thai roads, with excellent visibility and no traffic about. I wouldn't make a habit of it, certainly.

PS - can anyone tell what car that is in the OP from the look of the dash?

Staying alive is a dying art.