newcomer71

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

They were warned.These people were terrorists and the govt. allowed the army to remove them.Once the army was fired upon the army did what armies do.When the public take up arms it becomes legit.which will be borne out if it ever gets to court.

You are sure all 90 people were terrorists, right? And nurse killed inside temple during her duties should have been home right?

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

Now if there were no protestors and no Suthep Thailand would be half way there as we speak. Does that sound democratic to you? Why are you pretending that there is a democracy in thailand and protestors are ruining it?

The system is broken and needs to be changed to ensure the voted in goverment abides by the rule of law. You might not like Suthep and his buddies i don't like him ether but is there anyone else offering change? Seriously, anyone?

And the staff he says about the police is just too good not to like .

Offering change and effecting change are vastly different. Nothing Suthep is offering resembles democracy. He moans and groans about the amnesty. Here is a person evading an arrest warrant and he failed to show up in court to face a murder indictment because 'he is too busy'. Rule of law? Who needs amnesty when the crooks who stay in the country can act with impunity? It all boils down to whose bread you are buttering. If Suthep can't get the military to enforce his PDRC, what is he going to do? In the meantime, every academic will crawl out of the woodwork to offer the 'best' solution for Thailand. Get on with the elections! After the elections, call for a Constitutional Convention. The mechanics of the Constitutional Convention can be worked out after the elections.

Yes, lol, the mechanics of a Constitutional Convention can be worked out after the elections. 55555555. ...by the majority. That just sounds like an absolutely swell idea!

You must have just gotten off the latest telcon with Dubai. Well, you do get points for being a good listener.

Thaivisa official sport is: label whoever has a different idea from you a Thaksinist...

Reform the government to reduce corruption?

Restructure the policeforce ?

How can anyone argue this doesnt need to be done?

There is an oportunity here for all Thais (reds yellows greens...)to change things for the better. Lets hope the Thai people see this with a little more clarity than many of the posters here.

It's not hard to understand: believe me.

Many posters here are not against changes and/or sent Thaksin out of this country for good.

But these changes are at least not much plausible with such a despotic delusional.

I still want to know his plans for achieve what he is promising. And also who met him until now have still to know...

So let's say: (it's an example, don't get me wrong).

You have been kidnapped by a crazy criminal, the worst of all.

Your wife (or your family, up to you) let another criminal (less dangerous maybe but still a criminal) giving him full power, after he promises to her he will solve the problem and in some time you will be free again.

Yep, you still have more chance to be safe, but how many?

You are correct, i will choose the option that gives me at least a chance of survival.

Hum, so no hope to see you saved by Police, or Government Forces?

By the way I understand it's your opinion, and I respect it, besides I am totally not for the risk of see Mighty Suthep doing of this country whatever he likes.

I wish there would be a knight in shining armor riding his white stallion to save my sorry behind, but being realistic and knowing royal thai police i see no other options. If suthep does nothing better then balance out Shin clan so Thai politics are not so onesided it would be a step forward for Thailand in my opinion.

I understand what you say, and no... I did not mean Thai Police (I was still referring at your hypothetical case, in your country or wherever else

But in any case, for someone Suthep can be a hope. I don't see it like it, because the sea of nonsense and his total non-transparency a bout his "plans" (if he has any...).

Thailand needs a step forward, and not with a megalomaniac that yesterday at the meeting with professionals and economic vip said if they agree with him good, if not just stay away and don't disturb his Council. Worrying, a lot.

And who do you expect to fight a man who can order a killings of thousands of Thai innocent people, deploy large private paid militia force in the heart of BKK for months, got every law inforcement institution in his pocket? Someone with no power or backbone? I have not seen him concentrate the power in one hands like his opponents try to do. Time might prove me wrong but right now you are comparing a clearly rotten apple to one that might prove to be rotten so excuse me if i will take my chances with the latter.

So let's say: (it's an example, don't get me wrong).

You have been kidnapped by a crazy criminal, the worst of all.

Your wife (or your family, up to you) let another criminal (less dangerous maybe but still a criminal) giving him full power, after he promises to her he will solve the problem and in some time you will be free again.

Yep, you still have more chance to be safe, but how many?

You are correct, i will choose the option that gives me at least a chance of survival.

Hum, so no hope to see you saved by Police, or Government Forces?

By the way I understand it's your opinion, and I respect it, besides I am totally not for the risk of see Mighty Suthep doing of this country whatever he likes.

I thought HM passed a decree stating elections Feb 2 and Yingluck would remain as caretaker, why is this go showing so much disrespect?

Somebody very strong and high ranked is behind this, Suthep can pass HM and overrule a royal decree, this (Suthep) Hitler of Asia has a lot off power. ! Scary to hear that high ranked police and army want to talk with him. They turn the clock 30 years back.

And who do you expect to fight a man who can order a killings of thousands of Thai innocent people, deploy large private paid militia force in the heart of BKK for months, got every law inforcement institution in his pocket? Someone with no power or backbone? I have not seen him concentrate the power in one hands like his opponents try to do. Time might prove me wrong but right now you are comparing a clearly rotten apple to one that might prove to be rotten so excuse me if i will take my chances with the latter.

So let's say: (it's an example, don't get me wrong).

You have been kidnapped by a crazy criminal, the worst of all.

Your wife (or your family, up to you) let another criminal (less dangerous maybe but still a criminal) giving him full power, after he promises to her he will solve the problem and in some time you will be free again.

Yep, you still have more chance to be safe, but how many?

"Its just that when it comes to Thai democracy, the ironically named Democrat Party is among the worst practitioners. Tens of thousands of Yellow Shirts are marching across the country, but demanding the establishment of royalist councils is hardly a peoples revolution. If anyone has been exercising people power, its the 15 million voters who elected Yingluck and her Pheu Thai party in July 2011.

Read more: Thailands Democrat Party Is Hilariously Misnamed | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/11/28/thailands-democrat-party-is-hilariously-misnamed/#ixzz2nKP84g00"

This is what the world thinks of the Dems and this idiot and of course it reflects very badly on Thailand.

Yawn. Yawn. Post something new

Democracy - is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equallyeither directly or through elected representativesin the proposal, development, and creation of laws

PTP Democracy - is a form of government where the friends and family of Thaksin participate as Skype-controlled lackeys and the laws are changed for the massive benefit of the few

As has already been pointed out endless times, the 'form of government' being proposed by this man is known as 'dictatorship', which is the exact opposite of democracy.

Historically, true democracy has always been hard-won, but going backwards is not the way, whatever the supposed provocation. Not, of course, that it's any of our business, but I know which side I'd be on if this was happening in the UK.

I believe he has stated that after a revised framework has been out in place to deal with corruption and cheating by MPs, the committee will resign and members will be ineligible for reelection for 5 years

He has a wide history of corruption, which rights does he have to do what he is doing?

Everyone wants to "kill" Thaksin, then accept this corrupted megalomaniac to write rules? Oh gosh...

Why is he still dribbling rubbish, didn't he promise to surrender himself last Monday?

He will surrender when he will win his war, so: never.

ahhh we are back to should have been this or should have been that are we ? well they should have been held accountable of course, it seems the courts fear everyone but an honest man has nothing to fear right ? so

How about you just answer the question which you lightly side stepped?

And taking power by force when you cant even lobby the people properly enough to change opinion or do it legally is soooo much better ?

What force?

People power?

The blowing of whistles?

Cutting electric power to government and private buildings, locking gates to prevent people work or go out from government premises, using trucks for remove protection barriers is not using force, of course.

"Its just that when it comes to Thai democracy, the ironically named Democrat Party is among the worst practitioners. Tens of thousands of Yellow Shirts are marching across the country, but demanding the establishment of royalist councils is hardly a peoples revolution. If anyone has been exercising people power, its the 15 million voters who elected Yingluck and her Pheu Thai party in July 2011.

Read more: Thailands Democrat Party Is Hilariously Misnamed | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/11/28/thailands-democrat-party-is-hilariously-misnamed/#ixzz2nKP84g00"

This is what the world thinks of the Dems and this idiot and of course it reflects very badly on Thailand.

Yawn. Yawn. Post something new

Democracy - is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws

PTP Democracy - is a form of government where the friends and family of Thaksin participate as Skype-controlled lackeys and the laws are changed for the massive benefit of the few

I'd add:

Suthep/Democrats Democracy - Is a form of government where Mighty Suthep / Democrats elected themselves through force, coup, protest, against all possible laws and Constitution, because they couldn't in any other way.

What now, even Time is not a voice you guys would like to hear? Now: we add it to Cnn, The Guardian, BBC... right?

I asked some days ago which balanced source we should read for have an unbiased opinion. The best I got is? Tony Cartalucci.

Other foreign press? They don't know anything, they are biased or connected with Thaksin (!!!) This is what I got...

So Suthep's saying they are going to meet, and the other heads involved say they are keeping out of it. Wait and see who's telling the truth then I guess.

He played this card once, and lost face. How many times he will play the same game? Tired of his nonsense.

PDRC co-leader Thaworn Senneam also said;

"Now we have someone [a candidate to be the next PM] who is sincere and not corrupt. [if] we cannot find someone who is [totally] innocent [in life], we can choose the most innocent."[/indent]

Interesting. Several years ago, when I had been in Thailand a few years, I mentioned to one of the senior members of the Dem's that they are the clean party. He corrected me saying nobody is clean in Thailand, but that they were the relatively most clean party in Thailand.

If the PDRC can come up with the relatively most innocent person (regardless of affiliation), then that is a huge step in the right direction.

Democratically unelected of course.

Still, it is the democratically elected officials who instituted a rice pledging program that has led to the government defaulting on payments to the very people in the country it was designed to help. What have these elected officials done with the money? Why are their silo's full of unsold grain? Why has Thailand lost the reputation as one of the best rice producers the world? Why has the IMF told YL to stop this scheme, yet it continues? Why are unpaid rice workers blocking roads?

Thailand's democratically government at work.

Still, if something like this will happen in any Westerner country, Suthep would have been locked and key thrown away 2 weeks ago.

Justify what he is doing with the fact Government had criminal behaviors is just so wrong.

There are democratic ways to pursue justice, not this Suthep utter nonsense.

Sorry, but I am really not sure that healthcare was free before 2001 30 baht Thaksin's scheme.

Before that date, poor people did not have access to forfeited health care but have only access to normal tariff (many of them could not even afford Government hospital!).

Do you have any proof of that?

For what I read around, I see only that Thaksin introduced the new scheme that helped the poor and rural people (and under 12 years old and over 60 years old, the ticket was free).

Sure, he made it for get sympathy from poors and rurals, and so their votes. But he did that... And I am not defending him, only write what I know, I can still be wrong of course.

Healthcare was free, when Thaksin Yingluck & PTP re-introduced the fee, in 2011.

It was done, to revive the political memory of something good, which he'd done for the poor a decade earlier.

I think it was cynical & bad, to make the poor again have to pay for something which had been free for a few years, merely for his own petty political ends.

Having achieved the 30-baht scheme, under Thaksin, and made it free, under the Dems, the task now is surely to improve the hospitals & medical-care which the poor get.

I wonder why the rural doctors keep demanding that the Health Minister should be fired ?

That was the story as I knew. My post wasn't directed at you, but to someone else that said the Big Bro re-introduced the fee. And that's wrong.

But is right that after Thaksin, Abhisit put healthcare for free and Yingluck reintroduced the 30 baht fee.

Interesting opinions.

I'm not afraid that Suthep will build up a Kingdom/ dictatorship or what ever for himself.

He did not have any support for that. He knows that.

He is the man for the rough ton. His goal is to stop the Shin clan.

Coincidentally, that would also mean defacto to stop the corruption in the country now.

So why everybody let him move and shout?

The police could sacked him, the army could sacked him. The courts could sacked him.

In the background the courts are working now.

- Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong gets one-year imprisonment without suspension

- Abhisit due in court over 2010 crackdown (Suthep will follow sure)

- Bt2 trillion loan bill halted, pending court ruling

- NACC to investigate backers of charter change draft (maybe they ban 312 members)

Maybe a great chance to getting the corruption down in Thailand.

Hopefully it all turns now into an clear anti - corruption movement

with concrete suggestions for improvement.

The frame is clear: Peace and unity.

PS:

- It must be prevented in the future, that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

- When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

I completely disagree with that. Corruption came far before Thaksin, and corruption was running while Abhisit was in charge as well.

So, Suthep, or any Average Joe would not let corruption cease in Thailand. This is sure as birth and death.

About your PS: I guess there is no way to prevent that. Look some cases around the world, even very recent and even our advanced democracies did not prevent that, so sadly.

Sure, agree! Corruption was far before.

But we living today.

Stop corruption now!

The people want it (me included)

I want it too, my friend. But Suthep is not the one who will make defacto disappear corruption in this country.

Sorry, but I am really not sure that healthcare was free before 2001 30 baht Thaksin's scheme.

Before that date, poor people did not have access to forfeited health care but have only access to normal tariff (many of them could not even afford Government hospital!).

Do you have any proof of that?

For what I read around, I see only that Thaksin introduced the new scheme that helped the poor and rural people (and under 12 years old and over 60 years old, the ticket was free).

Sure, he made it for get sympathy from poors and rurals, and so their votes. But he did that... And I am not defending him, only write what I know, I can still be wrong of course.

Interesting opinions.

I'm not afraid that Suthep will build up a Kingdom/ dictatorship or what ever for himself.

He did not have any support for that. He knows that.

He is the man for the rough ton. His goal is to stop the Shin clan.

Coincidentally, that would also mean defacto to stop the corruption in the country now.

So why everybody let him move and shout?

The police could sacked him, the army could sacked him. The courts could sacked him.

In the background the courts are working now.

- Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong gets one-year imprisonment without suspension

- Abhisit due in court over 2010 crackdown (Suthep will follow sure)

- Bt2 trillion loan bill halted, pending court ruling

- NACC to investigate backers of charter change draft (maybe they ban 312 members)

Maybe a great chance to getting the corruption down in Thailand.

Hopefully it all turns now into an clear anti - corruption movement

with concrete suggestions for improvement.

The frame is clear: Peace and unity.

PS:

- It must be prevented in the future, that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

- When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

I completely disagree with that. Corruption came far before Thaksin, and corruption was running while Abhisit was in charge as well.

So, Suthep, or any Average Joe would not let corruption cease in Thailand. This is sure as birth and death.

About your PS: I guess there is no way to prevent that. Look some cases around the world, even very recent and even our advanced democracies did not prevent that, so sadly.

1.Let's start first by not allowing motorcycles to block the pedestrian crossing while waiting for traffic light.Wait,is there even a pedestrian crossing in thailand?

2.Learn thais to use turning signal while actually turning

3.Drink & drive - let drivers actually pay the penalty and consequences instead of taking that 200 baht bribe

4.12 year old on 125cc bike.Well it must be legal in thai

It's really not that hard to see motorcycle taxi people opening bottle of whiskey,especially in pattaya(although most of pattaya dark side has different laws than most of thailand).Let them pay penalty,hit them in the pocket where it hurts

I would add:

5) National sport: totally out of head lane change, with frequent crashes with taxis, motorbikes or other private cars.

6) Drive against traffic (now it happens regularly in Bkk with motorcycles, but after Bangkapi for example, it becomes countryside with even pickup (who else?) frequently doing it

7) Abolish those modified motorcycle/cart without light and so dangerous for general street safety.

...but there's much more!

Driving in Thailand is DEFINETLY not a pleasure that's for sure.

Hopefully in years to come it will improve......

That's what I hope too. Sadly, in the last 10 years there have been a worsening of the situation

I think their imagined support is simply another take, a reversal, on 'you're either for us, or against us', a classic in flawed logic.

Then there are the many thousands that showed simply because of "The Event" nature of the protests. Facebook is awash in selfies from the event.

I am curious as to how you can grant legitimacy to the reds who protested in the streets and deny it to Sutheps group. I don't think Suthep is anybodys ideal leader, but you can't deny that he led the largest protest this country has ever seen. Those people didn't turn out because of Suthep, they came because a corrupt government tried to ram through an amnesty bill to benefit an even more corrupt individual. Surely there must be some accountability for that.

I certainly agree that the reasons for the protest were the ill-considered and -conceived Amnesty Bill and that this was a cause worthy of protest. However, they've achieved their goal, the Amnesty Bill has been withdrawn and the Government has been dissolved in favour of elections.

WHY can't you get that the amnesty bill has been "withdrawn" but is NOT dead IF the current government remains for another, what, 140 days? Why do so many protester critics act so obtuse about this? The protesters undoubtedly recognize as well that re-electing the PTP will without a doubt simply resurrect this issue, along with all the other shenanigans for which they've been responsible, including the abuse of majority status to further tinker with the constitution. The PTP's lost legitimacy won't magically return with their re-election, and the protesters are demanding a better democracy "framework" than 4 wolves & a sheep deciding the dinner menu...

You are aware that Yingluck dissolved House and new elections are to be held on 2nd February right?

Well less that the 140 days...

@Basil B. Neither the police or Yingluck are responsible for the death of red shirt supporters last week. It was pro Suthep supporters who inflicted this violence.

It could be said that the police were responsible because of their inaction.

It was students and red shirts that inflicted violence. It was a student that was shot dead first after a number of hours of fighting between the two groups.

Cool, you are justifying the cruel reaction that students have after that red shirt murdered one of them? Oh well, wait, students were armed too! What a surprise.

And f###ing cops! They are responsible for every murder in this country! They are never able to prevent murders!

So a full blown fascist takeover it is then. If I HD just started following this drivel I would be inclined to think suthep is a loony. However he is fr more dangerous and should be locked up pronto. Come on YL, SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP AND HAVE HIM ARRESTED PDQ

Sent from my Lenovo A516 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Talking of fascism, during the 2010 events, Thaksin played the anti-gay card to his conservative supporters and one wonders whether all the armoury will again be pushed out if things get ugly.

Thaksin is a criminal on the run, and his sister made such a big damage to her image and PTP that half was enough. I'd leave him out of this post where, we are talking about a group of madmen who wants to rule the country all under their game rules. So I guess Thaksin in a bit off topic.

And the funny thing is: they don't still know who will compose the Council, but the Council decided name of the PM ad interim. Curious!

Nice try to put all negative on Suthep.

The reality is that the paymaster cannot be pushed out of the discussion, he is the main catalyst which has caused this whole mess and the whole matter cannot be discussed or analyzed without strong and broad negative reference to him.

So you mean that the sick wish of Suthep to get total power over Thailand without people to have any word on it is because of Thaksin... Well, your opinion and not mine.

And I did not try anything. In my opinion the totally crazy words that come out from Suthep's mouth in last week are not connected with Thaksin. So Thaksin is off topic... in this topic (lol).

Or do you think that if for a magic, the Shin clan will disappear then Mighty Suthep will go back to his South and have a retiree life as a farmer and grandpa?