BritTim

I would be happier if this letter included the phrase "at the original prices". My fear all along has not been that an upgrade would be impossible, but that the price of an upgrade would be much higher.

Wait 24 hours. After a long weekend, government websites are often malfunctioning. Once staff get into the office, they usually get it fixed reasonably quickly.

The best you can do is have a Bangkok Bank account, and use the appropriate reason for transfer. WISE has stated that in those specific circumstances, your transfer will usually show up as FTT on a Bangkok Bank statement. They have warned that it could occasionally happen that they cannot expeditiously arrange a transfer direct to Bangkok Bank, in which case it might (as reported) end up being a domestic transfer from Kasikorn.

It shows that you are still married. It is not unknown for people to marry and then subsequently divorce.

As long as they actually issue you a visa, it does not matter whether they call it a visa or a "super-duper airport ticket" or anything else. It is still better, for understanding purposes, if the correct terminology is used.

This is the key. If you are applying for a temporary extension of your permission to stay, you use the TM7 form. You must meet the conditions for whatever reason for the extension you are applying for. You cannot apply directly for a one-year extension by reason of retirement after entering visa exempt. Before applying for an extension by reason of retirement, you must apply for a Non O visa using form TM87 (if you entered visa exempt) or TM86 (if you entered with a tourist visa). The Non O visa is used for many purposes. Its original purpose was for a visit to Thailand of up to 90 days, though it is now repurposed to allow an application at Immigration. That is why you receive an initial 90-day stay when granted a Non O visa at Immigration.

I think the agents are mostly gone. You must queue yourself outside the consulate well before they open. They only accept a limited number of applications per day. You cannot just waltz up at 9:30 am and expect to be able to apply that day, unless you are extremely lucky.

How on earth can an agent offer you a one-year stay as a 40-year-old for 15,000 baht? Even when agent assisted volunteer visas and extensions were available, they cost way more than that. Today, the cheapest is a Non Ed visa and extensions which (including immigration fees and fees to the school) cannot be less than 40k baht a year, and hard to arrange at that price.

Staying long term on visa exemptions and border bounces is no longer viable. All a good agent can offer you (now fraudulent volunteer visas have been comprehensively squashed) is education visas. These involve cost and some hassle, usually necessitating annual border bounces alongside 60 or 90-day extensions. It might be possible to accomplish this more cheaply than a 20-yesr Elite (at current prices) but it will be hard.

Yes, you can. You do not have a 'retirement visa'. You have an extension of your temporary permission to be in Thailand based on retirement, which you can subsequently change to further extensions for reasons other than retirement (often marriage). You can read an English translation of the Police Order giving all the allowable reasons for extensions at https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=436487. Note that superseding Police Orders have subsequently changed some of the rules for extensions by reason of retirement.

@DrJack54's explanation was accurate, though the visa application for the Non O at Jomtien often differs from the standard practice at other offices. If you look back in your passport(s) you will be able to find the Non O visa stamp which you received to change from the visa exempt entry. It was immediately stamped 'used', and you had a fresh 90-day permission to stay placed in your passport at the same time as the visa.

Thank you. That seems definitive (and I would never presume to doubt you). What do you think this meant?

Others are mostly in disagreement with my opinion on this, and Immigration may not applying the rules as I think they were intended. My view is that, for any retirement extension after the first, you should be able to qualify for the next extension based on money in the bank or income. You qualify based on income, by having 12 monthly transfers from abroad or by using an income letter. To qualify based on money in the bank, you must have complied with minimum balances in your account since the previous extension. The popular opinion is that when you previously qualified for an extension based on money in the bank, you must also qualify based on money in the bank at the time of the next extension. You cannot qualify based on income alone, but must meet the same requirements as if you could not qualify based on income. However, having qualified based on both money in the bank and income for one extension, you can then choose which (money in the bank or income) you want to use for the subsequent extension. The written Police Order does not make sufficiently clear whether my logic or the common consensus is what was intended.

Thank you for your input. I was influenced by the poster indicating that no visa stickers or entry/exit stamps were placed in his passport, with him leaving his passport at immigration for his short visit. I cannot see how this could be compatible with a visa on arrival, entering and exiting Laos with the visa (which would surely also require exit and entry stamps on the Thai end). I wonder if he actually used a different crossing.

If the only resident of the property is a foreigner, the blue book will be empty. The chanote in your name, plus the explanation that you not yet have a yellow book should be sufficient for things like TM30 notification. However, if you are a foreign owner, the yellow book will simplify matters in some cases.

I kind of feel the same. However, people can have good reasons for wanting to avoid time away. Someone needing to be back at work in 10 days might not want to spend several days away from the girlfriend and kids, for instance. Also, Vietnam is cheap, but still costs more than a border bounce. Those who are really hard up might need to factor that into their decision making.

That's great. I thought I needed to go back to the consulate for that. Does it still allow me to stay for 90 days on each entry?

A dismissive and demeaning post and replies to it have been removed.

Just do not maker a bank transfer until you are ready. I assume they do not have the ability to remove money from your bank account without your consent.

Understood. It is very difficult for people who have never encountered Thailand's immigration system to understand that the "visa" is not what allows them to be in Thailand. You are right. Just saying "yes, you can extend it at Immigration" is probably the least confusing answer in isolation. Helping him to learn that the visa is not his permission to stay might stand him in good stead in the future. It is a trade off.

I do not see where in the Police Order for extensions where it says money in the bank is both retrospective and prospective, but income is based only on retrospective payments. I believe both are retrospective only. If this is not true, then a failure to maintain deposits later means that your current permission to stay becomes invalid, and you are on overstay. You should be fined when this is discovered, and blacklisted from Thailand if the overstay is more than 90 days. Of course, it is not true. The deposits in the bank are only used to qualify for your next extension (if you do not qualify instead based on income). As you say, we are going to have to agree to disagree. We have had a polite discussion, and I think I understand your position, even though I disagree with it.

Do not have rose tinted glasses about the situation in the UK a lot more recently than the Middle Ages. The class hierarchy was still very powerful at least as late as the 1950s. You are correct that these attitudes remain very strong in Thailand. If we want to live here, we need to acknowledge it and not fight it.

That can be validly argued if your last extension was based on money in the bank. They want to be sure that the 800k baht was your money, and not from some kind of short-term loan. it is certainly more valid than saying you must qualify based on money in the bank for the entire year while simultaneously qualifying based on income That said, I would still say that qualifying by 12 consecutive monthly deposits from abroad meets the cumulative 800k requirement for an extension based on income. In the past, when income letters from the embassy were accepted, I do not recall them ever saying that they would not accept the income letter because you did not met the requirement for 800k baht in the bank. So, do you believe that would now also be true if using an income letter from your embassy? I think you may be correct on actual practice, but I think it is completely illogical. The intent of the current rules, I believe, is that you must qualify for an extension by showing you have met the requirements for your last extension, either by keeping the requisite bank balances, or by depositing a minimum level of income into your account from abroad every month during the term of the last extension. I do not think using money in the bank for one extension should prevent you from using income to qualify for the next one (though you must be able to show proof of retrospective income, not just a promise to do it going forward). Interesting enough, when monthly deposits were first introduced, you were allowed to qualify the first time based on only two or three monthly deposits as it was felt unreasonable to require 12 deposits when this was not previously necessary. Now, apparently, 24 months of transfers are required. Similarly, I think if you have previously been using income, you should be able to switch to money in the bank by simply having 800k baht in the bank during the previous year. I do not think a failure to continue 65k+ deposits should disqualify you for the next extension as long as you qualify based on money in the bank.

I am sure hammering on about the difference between visas and permissions to be in Thailand is tiresome for many who do not understand the horrendous misfortunes that have befallen some who fail to understand this almost unique feature of Thailand's immigration system. I do tend to let it slide when there is no ambiguity, but pointing it out at every opportunity does help reduce the number of people whose lives are ruined by not understanding that "visas" usually give you no right to be in Thailand.

So, you would need to submit the bank statement to show you qualified for the last extension, thus (in spite of the fact that you could have qualified based on income if able to use that to qualify) you would again need to use money in the bank the next time. Or, do you annotate the application in some way to state that, although forced to show proof of money in the bank this time, yo will be using income next time? Do you need to show the 12-month statement of 65k baht transfers along with the 800k deposit but, perhaps, stamp the 800k deposit statement "not for this extension"? If so, make sure you keep a copy of all this, as I doubt Immigration can easily lay their hands on it at the time of your next extension. They will usually just look at your extension stamp and want to see if you qualify for the next one based on income or money in the bank.