alanrchase

Salmond has left a split nation behind him http://news.uk.msn.com/in-pictures/police-separate-yes-and-no-rivals-2

No real need to do that.

Yes I am Scottish and if I had the opportunity I think you have probably guessed I would have voted

YES, but unfortunately the rules of the referendum did not allow me to be elegible to vote sadly.

Do you not feel a shade robbed by your own country?

Which happened first -- he abandoned his country or his country abandoned him ?

Neither jp I still have a flat in Scotland and although not resident ( the reason I could not vote )

I am still paying Uk tax on my pension and would have been more than happy to be paying that

tax to an independent Scottish government. But because of the naysayers it is going into the

coffer of Westminister to be squandered as usual, not unlike the money from the Scottish oil.

I won't go into details pj, but if you had sorted out your affairs before leaving, you would now have a postal vote

Thought to vote you needed to be resident for three months?

Only just started living in Thailand on a permanent basis myself and will pay tax in Thailand.

Define "resident"

Believe to vote resident meant you lived in Scottish borders. English, Scottish or from an EU country was ok. Sorry missed out Welsh and Irish.

Yes I am Scottish and if I had the opportunity I think you have probably guessed I would have voted

YES, but unfortunately the rules of the referendum did not allow me to be elegible to vote sadly.

Do you not feel a shade robbed by your own country?

Which happened first -- he abandoned his country or his country abandoned him ?

Neither jp I still have a flat in Scotland and although not resident ( the reason I could not vote )

I am still paying Uk tax on my pension and would have been more than happy to be paying that

tax to an independent Scottish government. But because of the naysayers it is going into the

coffer of Westminister to be squandered as usual, not unlike the money from the Scottish oil.

I won't go into details pj, but if you had sorted out your affairs before leaving, you would now have a postal vote

Thought to vote you needed to be resident for three months?

Only just started living in Thailand on a permanent basis myself and will pay tax in Thailand.

Well, ive got 46.8 on the yes vote and 37.9% on yes (84.6% turn out, not 86% of 4,271,500 eligible voters rounded from the 84.6% that voted). So we're closing that margin of error. I would also argue that the youth and workers are less likely or too busy to turn up to the polls on poling day compared with grannies and grandads with nothing better to do and an army of volunteers to drive them, so again, maybe more pause for thought. Its all hypothetical and pointless though. Unless we introduce punishments for people who dont vote, you go with the people that turn up. Thirty eight percent of the entire population is enough to deliver landslide governments after all. Didnt blair get something like 30.8% in 1997? Yes, he did, i just did the sums

The point is that the math might stand on the figures we have. But this is superfluous to anything at all. What doesnt stand and cant stand is the interpretation of the voting intentions of those who failed (for whatever reason) to turn up and cast their vote. Thats just silly and self serving. We all have our feelings and ideas, but the only reflections we have are polling weights, margins of error, and assumptions about human behaviour. All of which are susceptible to being made up on the spot to suit our personal agenda. Come on now, lets be grown up. Its a silly dead end. I got sick of arguing this point in the thai news forums about the differences between direct and representative democracy. It seems extra daft that no Yes supporter is arguing (really) that the No side won. To further try and diminish their vote by rounding the proportion down to convey some kind of political lack of will seems spurious on top of it. The logic cuts both ways, and since NO failed to garner 50% of the total votes, perhaps we should all do this again and again until someone scores 50% of all possible votes plus 1.

Votes are votes. Result is confirmed. In most democracies arround the world if you needed 50% of eligible voters there would never be a final outcome. Even the most "Democratic" country in the world suffers from low voter turnout. Believe in Australia you can be fined for not voting? Suppose that is considered freedom.

PhuketJock

Please explain why the Barnett formula is neccessary if The Scottish parliament gets tax raising powers. Its no good trying the Salmond trick of blaming everything on nasty English tories , even the majority of Scots have now seen through that.

Barnett is hugely unfair to certain less prosperous parts of the UK , notably Wales and the North East of England.

Further devolution means Scotland taking financial responsibility , good luck expecting that from Salmond.

No where in my post did I support or criticise the merits of the Barnett formula I merely

pointed out that the Tory,Labour, and Liberal Democrat leaders in West minister Vowed

on the front page of a popular Scottish tabloid prior to the referendum vote that Scotland

would still be eligible for payment under the existing Barnett formula and also promised

further tax/revenue raising powers to the Scottish government if there was a NO vote.

Now there is already murmers of denying that promise by the very person, I discovered

on the news last night, that has been put in charge of the negotiations with the Scottish

government on the new devolution powers for that government William Hague.

I fear the cowardly NO voters have very little idea of the depth of their betrayal of the nation

of Scotland, but I am quite positive it will not be very long before even they realise the grave

misjustice they have done their counrty.

A sad sad day for them and Scotland..................................

Don't like to assume but seems you may be Scottish? How did you vote? Yes, No?

Yes I am Scottish and if I had the opportunity I think you have probably guessed I would have voted

YES, but unfortunately the rules of the referendum did not allow me to be elegible to vote sadly.

Do you not feel a shade robbed by your own country?

Unfortunately it's people like those who make these posters, that will feed the hate and animosity of those who will not accept the democratic view of the Whole electorate.

Never known freedom? England ruled by Scottish Kings and vice versa. 300 odd years of shenanigans. Scots used to cross the boarders for a fight and English reciprocated ie crossed into Scotland. World back then was a shade different.

I have no reason to like or dislike Herr Salmonella. But you have to have some sympathy for a guy who tried to lead his people to the promised land, only for the Haggises and Lassies to turn round, raise their skirts and kilts and wind on him. I never realised the dork Cameron was a dish. No knowing what ladies think! I am sure I am missing something; well maybe a lot of things.

Assuming He was leading them to the promised land.

PhuketJock

Please explain why the Barnett formula is neccessary if The Scottish parliament gets tax raising powers. Its no good trying the Salmond trick of blaming everything on nasty English tories , even the majority of Scots have now seen through that.

Barnett is hugely unfair to certain less prosperous parts of the UK , notably Wales and the North East of England.

Further devolution means Scotland taking financial responsibility , good luck expecting that from Salmond.

No where in my post did I support or criticise the merits of the Barnett formula I merely

pointed out that the Tory,Labour, and Liberal Democrat leaders in West minister Vowed

on the front page of a popular Scottish tabloid prior to the referendum vote that Scotland

would still be eligible for payment under the existing Barnett formula and also promised

further tax/revenue raising powers to the Scottish government if there was a NO vote.

Now there is already murmers of denying that promise by the very person, I discovered

on the news last night, that has been put in charge of the negotiations with the Scottish

government on the new devolution powers for that government William Hague.

I fear the cowardly NO voters have very little idea of the depth of their betrayal of the nation

of Scotland, but I am quite positive it will not be very long before even they realise the grave

misjustice they have done their counrty.

A sad sad day for them and Scotland..................................

Don't like to assume but seems you may be Scottish? How did you vote? Yes, No?

Am I right in understanding there can't be another vote for 30 years?

Apparently no one is allowed to call a polotician a liar. You get kicked out of the house for that.

Would like to find some serious reporting on various statements by the yes and no supporters.

Are all the secret north sea oil reserves going to come to light?

No full moon parties? Load gun, point at foot, pull trigger. When did TAT get the message to do away with all farang tourists that were not rich and respectable. (oh, nevermind) Goodbye Thailand, hello Cancun. I wonder when they will start enforcing full-piece bathing suits for all women.

Which flight are you on?

I like this idea a lot.

Let Koh Phangan be the ''Party Island'' and let's return Koh Tao to how it was a few years ago. Most of the locals there would prefer it for sure, both Thai and expat.

The island has always made enough money from the diving industry to keep everyone happy.

Koh Tao was always my favourite place in Thailand to chill out for a week but in recent years it has changed (not for the better).

Piss-heads and puff-heads can do what they do best on Koh Phangan.

Get rid of the backpacking scum who come to Thailand without a pot to piss in. Always looking for trouble and hand-outs. Makes me ashamed to be a Westerner and see this kind of scum walking around. Do the same as when Thailand immigration was able to just say no to the low life, dirty, scumbags looking for a free ride!!!!! No money, go back to your home country!!!! Hit the road jack!!!!

Possibly sarcastic? Heart felt?

I'd like a safer Thailand. However, this will take many initiatives and over a period of time. Three murders in that area in two years is not safe - period. Neither is it particuarly safe in Phuket or Pattaya with crimes ranging from assaults/robbery to murder. There are bad elements on all sides of society and therein lies the problem - and the victims are quite often innocent people just on holiday. Banning parties is not the solution .. and that is from some-one who would never attend.

I was in Vang Vieng, Laos, quite a few years ago. What a wonderful place. Then the young backpacker crowd came to float the river and get super drunk/drugged up. Crime went up, tourist rip offs went up, accidents went up. Finally the government stepped in and stopped this silliness. It's now back to being a very nice place to visit.

Good to know,i can head back also.The wierdest think i saw was bikini clad farangs everywhere,hanging out everywhere coming up the hill.Sat down and had several beers and took it all in,every arvo.Locals didn't bat an eyelid.Don't get that in Issan.

Go to Chaweng in Samui. Locals there do not bat an eyelid to topless girls either.

I can see these islands sinking if the Thai authorities start banning everything no visitors which are far and few these days will leave the islands with only coconuts to harvest and at 10 Baht per coconut on the open market life will become very hard

You're joking, right?

The potential for these islands is massive. If they cleared the islands of drugged up idiots spending 500 Baht a day, these islands could become a diving paradise. Do you have any idea how much income that would generate?

I think most of the people here think these islands popped up for their personal use a few years ago. The locals survived a long time before the 3rd generation hippies arrived.

They were beautiful places and are generally spoiled by us (tourists).

There is good in what General Prayuth is doing. Slowly but surely cleaning up. The popping into 7 11 wearing pretty much nothing should be controlled as it is Thai culture to cover up, It was a nicer place when the visitors conformed with local culture, I for one welcome it been that way again.

I am not connecting the dress code to the viscous murders of these two young tourists and I feel they did no wrong they were simply enjoying a holiday and were brutally murdered by one or probably more disgusting excuses for human beings. I feel the police are highly aware there is a very good chance they are looking for a pack of young Thai men and the blame in no way is with the foreign visitors.

They should at least have their eyes wide open to all possibilities and thoroughly check all evidence. The way they dismissed it could be a Thai in the beginning probably gave the real murderer / murderer's the time they needed to create alibis and destroy evidence.

Get a move on and catch them contrary to what the police think catching the people that really did this crime and dealing with them by real law would help restore confidence whatever nationality they turn out to be.

Dress code,what dress code,they were naked,f...... on the beach.Surely some responsibility lies with the victims,if they were in a room,none of this would have happened.

Should not have happened in a perfect world. Dress code is contentious. Walking arround naked would be frowned upon in most countries. Why push the limits in the country you are visiting? Agree or disagree with local regs? Crime is awfull regardless of where it happens.

The parties arnt the problem, its the murderers and scum that attend..... police these places with uniformed police properly would be a better solution, not leave it to the local mafia

If its a tourist location then there needs to be a visible police presence to protect tourists... duh

Put police to monitor ????

Best joke since long !!

I thought they charged too much ?

And tourists not feel more comfortable with the bib there anyway

Something that need to change ,, the bib need big cleanup

They don't feel comfortable because they are taking illegal substances,so your comfortable with kids on yar baar and ekkies are you?

Would not go down the judgemental route. Personal responsibility should be a factor. Youth is considered bullet proof. Scared the life out of myself for a few things when young.

I fully support ending these drunken drug-filled Full Moon parties.

I just wish they were not considering installing more beach lighting to do so.

Some people support Sharia law.... does that give them a right to tell everyone else what to do?

Used to live in a country with that law. Booze was 24/7.

them's the breaks eh?

It wasn't pretty at the weekend.

Asked earlier for a first hand post for what goes on there, not one reply. If it is such a free for all why do Thais seem to avoid it?

Who on here feels more unsafe because of Kho Tao?

No not at all. As sad as this is, it is not indicative that Thai people hate foreigners, although judging from some comments by posters, they think they do.

Anywhere there is a risk, it could happen to anyone. Wrong place, wrong time.

Some of these places just attract low life's, so the risk then increases. I live on an island, and the village I am in, you could not wish for nicer local people.

Liked the post but feel "low lifes" is a shade harsh. Years ago I would be there. Two beers and bed now.

While they are at it, maybe they can ban bikinis at the same time..

Good Idea ,change it to Nude beach ,see where the thais Hang out then

Who on here feels more unsafe because of Kho Tao?

"The military government vowed to restore Thailand's reputation as the "Land of Smiles", embarking on a clean-up of resorts after a series of complaints about scams, assaults and even police extortion, particularly in Phuket."

After all the murders recently I think "The Land Of Murders" would fit better, no need to try to cover it up and blame immigrant workers or foreign tourists.

All the murders? Has the rate increased since they took power?

Get the international discust for incident and agree. Has no one else been murdered since that terrible crime?

Looks like TAT says things are okay in the daytime......

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/09/19/state-media-still-unsure-if-women-should-be-blamed-violence

Not too sure why the TAT wishes to be involved. Unfortunately foreign tourists have been killed in most countries around the world.

Sad part of life.

Sure if someone wishes to google things another country may be worse. God forbid it turns out to be their home country.

The parties arnt the problem, its the murderers and scum that attend..... police these places with uniformed police properly would be a better solution, not leave it to the local mafia

If its a tourist location then there needs to be a visible police presence to protect tourists... duh

Without the party , you wouldn't attract murderers and scum !

These parties appeal because of the drink , drugs and risks of danger , skinny dipping and sex on the beach .

It is totally wrong that tourist should come to Thailand and break all the Thai rules/laws .

Thailand is not Las Palmas Majorca , where you can drink all night and anything goes .

Most Thai women don't wear bikinis , wear long black Lycra shorts and vest top to match .

Police at a Full Moon Party would kill it completely , nobody would come .

Hotels and resorts need to make guests understand the rules of good behaviour in Thailand .

Thailand is NOT an international playground where anything goes , you have to respect the customs of the country .

Thank you! Spot on!

Where it appears that hedonism goes on with the approval of the authorities.

This is a two way street. These parties encourage outrageous behaviour. There is no legal sanction. Might have been a whole lot better if these poor people had been rounded up for drunk and disorderly.

There is a complete lack of policing on these islands, so anything goes.

That is what the party goers seem to want.

I fully support ending these drunken drug-filled Full Moon parties.

I just wish they were not considering installing more beach lighting to do so.

Some people support Sharia law.... does that give them a right to tell everyone else what to do?

Used to live in a country with that law. Booze was 24/7.

Yea Full moon parties really need to be banned, its on the tick list for guys and girls in their twenties and a bit more.

They come a long way just to get pissed and act idiots , its got out of had and the drugs don't help either, if a girl loses her friends ,even a guy and goes it alone in the early hours they are at serious risk.

I know that on KPN, taxis drivers get away with most things.

The so called mafia are used to the good life on that island, so maybe too much money involved to ban, lets wait and see, test case pending.

He wants to clean Thailand up , but lets mad drug frenzied parties continue a bit hypocritical i'd say.

Its a foregone conclusion that if he bans the one on Ko Tao, cause of the murders, even worse catches no one, but lets the one on Kpn continue, he will, for the first time, left himself open for ridicule.

Another horrific incident is bound to happen again, its only a matter of time, then what will he blurt out, no more bikini's please !

Isn't it the responsibility of the officials to lay down the law? It's not up to the farang... they will simply do whatever they can get away with. Thai people complain about the sex on the beach and the pi$$ing and $hitting in the sea... surely it is up to them to say, "hey you can't do that, it's illegal and you will be fined, and spend the night in jail." That's pretty well how it works at home, (it's called "policing" and "law enforcement".) This responsibility lies squarely with the Thais to clean it up... it would make a safer place and improve tourism ten-fold.

But that is not what the party goers want. Whole point of the event is that it is not policed. No one attending wants the police.

Complaining after the fact is a lack of personal responsibility.

Know some fun places arround the world, bit dodgy. No one should be murdered anywhere.

Put yourself in a questionable situation things may happen.

Sorry friend, I think you have it all wrong. These are kids with very undeveloped moral compasses. It's like the cliche something in a candy store... whatever it is... can't remember.

Accept. Unfortunately life is a journey of discovery. Have a hard time justifying some things I did in my youth (nothing illegal). Live and learn.