alanrchase

Just skimmed the all pages quickly. Basically, some TV members here want Thai murderer in this case no matter what....

Give up skimming, eh..........

Think he got it right. Skimming may work on TV.

The investigating police are desperately issuing ridiculous statements and announcing new "suspects" at a frenetic rate except any locals from Koh Tao. For me, that means they know the killer is a local but won't or can't arrest him or them.

The media craves information, anything will do. Media and facts are irrelevant. Story is first. Media has accused countless people of guilt in the past who were innocent. Reserve judgement till more is known. Give it a week or two and things may become clearer. Hate the must be a Thai posts on the information available. If it is ok.

The taxi guys are very mafia, just in two one-month diving visits I've had taxi guys talk and act threateningly to me because I didn't move quickly enough on my motorbike out of their way. Worst Ive seen in Thailand though I'm sure Phuket's and Samui's are worse (avoiding returns to those islands). I also had a couple of other experiences with locals there--and I'm a middle-aged guy with many years in Asia who goes out of his way to be polite, speak my crappy Thai whenever possible, aways greet and say thanks (in Thai) etc--that made me believe the dive instructor living there who said "they hate us." That's not Thai bashing, in fact the Thais have ample reason to dislike foreign tourists IMO. Just adding to bangrak's observation that there's definitely tension and high energy, some of it quite negative, on Koh Tao.

Transport 'mafia' are out of control on all the islands, I've been to a really small island where they follow you from the dock and threaten native islanders (in this case my family) not to take you anywhere.

Prayuth's comment about bikinis is stupid and smart at the same time. The stupid's been well-addressed, so as to the smart: I've noticed a trend the last 3-5 years for falang chicks (who I can hear from their speech are Brits) to walk around with shorts cut so short their asses (or I guess ) are half hanging out. That might get you shouted at in some parts of the US, cat-calls and whistles elsewhere, but it's deeply offensive to Thais, and overall the cultural sensitivity level among especially the younger tourists hovers right around 0. So I can see a conservative general (whose views on this matter probably actually jive with 99% of Thai males) having this uppermost in mind.

Butt cheeks hanging out, not a problem, exposed shoulders or cleavage and nipple outlines very big problem.

As for beach activities,

my gf (font of all Thai knowledge) says, "very dangerous to have sex on the beach, Thai man see, Thai man want turn, girl not give Thai man turn, Thai man kill."

Font of all knowledge in Thailand. Big wai to you.

Why should the police be responsible for the actions of adults? They are required when the adults throw tantrums. Unfortunately adult tantrums result in a bit more than tears.

.Let me spell it out for you. Westerners only behave in this manner in Thailand because the Thais do nothing to prevent it. In fact they encourage it. A case in point is Hadrin. There you will see people rooting at the steps of cactus bar. If you did this in Australia, you'd be arrested instantly... but not here. Because there is an aire of anything goes, anything does indeed generally go. This is the Thais fault for allowing it. I get a bit annoyed when I hear Thais being judgemental of the farang idiots at the FMP... if you don't like their behaviour, don't let them do it... the laws are in place to stop indecency, and public nudity,,, but no, it's all ok here. They can't do it at home, so if they are told not to do it here, they are sure to understand. BUT NO, they allow it , they encourage it, and then it makes the whole place slovenly, dangerous, bawdy and ugly

Seriously? You must have a different travel agent than most.

The Mail has the most complete account, although some of the details are a little suspect. They seem to be the only source that the reported that the Burmese questioned and later released by the police were found to have a hand gun with them in addition to the two shattered iPhones and bloodstained jeans. They even published an unattributed photograph of the gun, a 9mm packed neatly in its original box with the magazine separate, which seems a strange way to hide an illegal hand gun. The picture also suggests they found an RG 34 grenade that was not even mentioned by the Mail. The Mail also included pictures of the blood stained hoe from Khao Sod.

The Coconuts story also seems to include some loose ends. Other reports suggest that the new suspect is Christopher Ware but Coconuts seems under the impression that there is another farang suspect, a man identified by Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, as David Miller's homosexual travel companion, who he speculated killed Miller in a fit of jealousy. Mr Prachum's analysis seems directly at odds with the Mail's accounts of Miller's close relationship with his girlfriend, Jessy Howorth, but, given the Mail's current status in Thailand, it is possible that Prachum didn't have access to its report. It also seems odd that a killer would take off his blood stained trousers and carefully pack them in the victim's suitcase before making his escape, rather than disposing of them somewhere they would be less likely to be found.

Given the shoddy work they usually do on forensics, allowing all and sundry to mess with the crime scene, vital evidence is quite likely to be already compromised by now. Despite all the technological advances Thai police methodology still relies overwhelmingly on confessions, many of which are later withdrawn in court.

Sadly, it seems as if the police are still very far away from solving the tragic murders of these two young people who had their whole lives ahead of them.

"The Mail" has the most complete account?

Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000.

(aren't you alway the one insisting on comparing like with like, here we are comparing deaths of foreign visitors of 1 nationality)

360 British died in Thailand in the last 12 months. Up to you how you believe they died.

But anyway you look at it, you are 10x more likely to die visiting Thailand than you are visiting Spain.

(If you are British)

Thailand isn't remotely close to one of the world's highest per capita murder rate.

It is below average globally, and just slightly above the rate of the US. The murder rate has fallen substantially since your 2000 statistic too, there were only 3,307 murders in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

This could be right, when the number of accidental deaths, suicides, unexplained casualties and disappearings has not been growing. Is it? Can we assume the RTP is not at all 'connected' with TAT etc.?

Paranoia rules here.

I am quite surprised that General Prayuth has made statements that the holidaymakers should have known better than to leave themselves vulnerable by venturing out in the early hours on the island.

Good grief. I've never been there myself but have learnt the island is only three miles long . In theory you should feel 10 times safer in a small place like that in the early hours of the morning than in Bangkok or Pattaya ? If not, then Thailand really does have a problem with safety

Bangkok is a big place, island is small. Island is full of people on booze and drugs? No idea myself, never been, size is not everything.

Size alone may not matter but the fact that the entire resident population of the island assisted police the way they did with monitoring, who was coming and going from the island should make any wannabe criminal think twice.

Unfortunately the police don't make anyone think twice. A rottweiler and a german shepherd do. I am not being facetious, but I have lived on these islands most of my life, and we have always had to maintain our own security through being vigilant. Never do the police patrol the beaches at night.. Never can we call on them for assistance. They are here to mop up the spoils, after crimes and accidents have occurred, for in Thailand, "crime pays". 2 uniformed cops on the beat (not on the take), would prevent most of these types of crime from ever being committed, certainly in a place like Koh Tao. (Someone here said that the crime occurred 50 metres from the police station!! .)

Why should the police be responsible for the actions of adults? They are required when the adults throw tantrums. Unfortunately adult tantrums result in a bit more than tears.

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Is it just me, or is the Daily Mail blocked in Thailand? And why in the world would this second rate rag be banned here?

It's just you.

Why in the world do you want information from this second rate rag?

It is unfortunate that the authorities come out with loads of BS prematurely. In typical Thai fashion, something must be said instantly, usually with little thought or evidence. After all is said and done I would not be surprised if it came back on some bar workers or fishermen etc.. I can't believe it was a single perp, and I think the nature of the male rape is key. It's grisly stuff, but without knowing any forensic details it is hard to evaluate the crime. And that goes for not just me and you, but the police as well. Wait for the lab results before blabbing crap everywhere. Anyone is capable of this type of crime... not only Thais or only Farang. In fact most Thais I've spoken to fully acknowledge that a Thai is very capable of this sort of thing. Prayuth said similar a couple of days ago.

Not too sure that it is typically a Thai phenomenon. I had to watch Sky news for a few years and their reporters always demanded instant statements. Personally pitty the Thai authorities if certain British news outlets are hounding them. They are always able to give the latest updates when the reporter is actually in the next door country?

I am quite surprised that General Prayuth has made statements that the holidaymakers should have known better than to leave themselves vulnerable by venturing out in the early hours on the island.

Good grief. I've never been there myself but have learnt the island is only three miles long . In theory you should feel 10 times safer in a small place like that in the early hours of the morning than in Bangkok or Pattaya ? If not, then Thailand really does have a problem with safety

Bangkok is a big place, island is small. Island is full of people on booze and drugs? No idea myself, never been, size is not everything.

Strange he would keep the shirt when he could have a) burned it - who would notice a small fire in Thailand ? tied it to a rock and thrown it in the sea. c) buried it.

Oh I get it it must have been his favourite shirt.

Am sure if you google stupid crimial you will find lots of examples. Radio and tv shows have done well relating incredulous tales about stupidity.

What I am really upset about apart from the crimes themselves, is how on earth did graphic pictures of the victims and the murder weapon get put up on the internet?

Is this from the police or passersby?

Welcome to the internet.

I really wish when something like this happens they'd immediately invite the British to rush some of their best people to aid in the investigation.

If nothing else it would show concern, and also prove transparency in the investigation.

Thailand is lacking in forscenics so I doubt the UK plod could do much.

Seem to remember satellite tv programme about how good the head forensic investigator in Thailand was. Unfortunately for you macho guys happened to be a woman.

I think it's something like 90% of people murdered knew the killer beforehand. That could be anything from a family member to someone they had a few drinks with before hand.

Statistic from a civilized country.

Once you are out in the wild world (Somalia?) any drug lord, chancer, or armed gang of cut-throats will have a go.

(I'm not including Thailand in the civilized world by the way)

Bold statement. Why?

Elementary my dear Watson,

Death rate of Britons in Thailand = 10x Death rate of Britons in Spain = Thailand a dangerous place for Britons.

Ta. Would Holmes base conclusions on dubious statistics?

I've seen the actual, uncensored, crime scene photos. The male had been stripped of clothes and the back of his head had at least three very bad, deep, wide fractures. The female was lying spread eagled and her face was severely stoved in. It seems to me that they were having sex at the time of the assault. The ineptitude of the Thai police in securing the crime scene for even the slightest shred of evidence is shocking. The crime scene was completely contaminated.

How can you tell that from the pictures you saw? Were they taken before or after forensic examination?

In an earlier post from Bean, I'm pretty sure he stated that the guy "assisting" went to Bangkok to meet his brother, if his brother was flying in to Swampy and wasn't already in country , then being at the airport to meet someone isn't neccessary an intent to flee?

If both were in possesion of flight tickets for immediate departures then it would look "suspicious" all it takes is for the airlines to confirm whether they were both fleeing, or indeed one was arriving and one was waiting to meet him..

That's basic Investigation stuff!!

Am sure Thai police will check all of that. Most on here keep jumping the gun.

I think it's something like 90% of people murdered knew the killer beforehand. That could be anything from a family member to someone they had a few drinks with before hand.

Statistic from a civilized country.

Once you are out in the wild world (Somalia?) any drug lord, chancer, or armed gang of cut-throats will have a go.

(I'm not including Thailand in the civilized world by the way)

Bold statement. Why?

Is "Speed" not meth? Dont keep up with it all. Ice I believe is a bit different. However none of it turns out to be fun in the end.

Cleaned up the quotes there. Meth is effectively "purified" speed. Speed is to Meth what Cocaine is to Crack. Speed is, as I know from personal experience, mildly addictive. Meth, on the other hand, is massively addictive.

Some drugs do turn out to be fun. It is very much like alcohol. Lao Kao being necked vs a fine single malt savoured over the course of time.

Not too sure I would agree that some drugs turn out to be fun, alcohol included. Very much depends on the individual consuming them. Each to their own.

I don't give a damn of the nationality of the killer or the reputation of Thailand.
What I want is the real killer to be found for the sakes of the families of those kids and the sakes of other people being killed by the same murderer.

I believe you. I agree with you. I said this in my only post on the subject shortly after the first news report. Unfortunately, so many MANY of the Official Thai Visa Committee On Picking Up The White Man's Burden don't agree with you. They have lost face. Oh my. They were posting from Minute 1 about the nasty, violent Thais. Yeah, well, this is a horrible crime whoever did it, and white people do this stuff, too. Whoever did it must pay, along with any helpers/enablers.

I had a problem right from the start with both Thais and Burmese doing this particular, horrible crime - because they had no motive to do what was done. This poor couple had no valuables to steal, weren't in anyone's face, didn't cause any ruckus. The only possible motive seems to be a kind of jealousy, a "crime of passion" as they say.

The stupid people - and they ARE stupid - who immediately piled not only on the Thais but Thailand - will they have the grace to be contrite? Is the Pope a Muslim?

.

Mate a Thai on a two day Yabba or Ice bender is more than capable of doing this in a moment of drug induced madness

Obviously there are no Foreigners out here who would be daft enough to go on a two day Yabba or Ice bender only Thais?

Curiously enough (and mildly coincidentally) Britain has not had the problems that other nations have had with Meth. Our addictions tend to be heroin, speed and cocaine based. Crack pretty much passed us by and so has crystal meth. Bizarre really when you consider how much like the Yanks the majority of Britain seem to want to be!

I don't give a damn of the nationality of the killer or the reputation of Thailand.
What I want is the real killer to be found for the sakes of the families of those kids and the sakes of other people being killed by the same murderer.

I believe you. I agree with you. I said this in my only post on the subject shortly after the first news report. Unfortunately, so many MANY of the Official Thai Visa Committee On Picking Up The White Man's Burden don't agree with you. They have lost face. Oh my. They were posting from Minute 1 about the nasty, violent Thais. Yeah, well, this is a horrible crime whoever did it, and white people do this stuff, too. Whoever did it must pay, along with any helpers/enablers.

I had a problem right from the start with both Thais and Burmese doing this particular, horrible crime - because they had no motive to do what was done. This poor couple had no valuables to steal, weren't in anyone's face, didn't cause any ruckus. The only possible motive seems to be a kind of jealousy, a "crime of passion" as they say.

The stupid people - and they ARE stupid - who immediately piled not only on the Thais but Thailand - will they have the grace to be contrite? Is the Pope a Muslim?

.

Mate a Thai on a two day Yabba or Ice bender is more than capable of doing this in a moment of drug induced madness

Obviously there are no Foreigners out here who would be daft enough to go on a two day Yabba or Ice bender only Thais?

I didn't think i needed to mention that....as it was a given.

I don't give a damn of the nationality of the killer or the reputation of Thailand.

What I want is the real killer to be found for the sakes of the families of those kids and the sakes of other people being killed by the same murderer.

I believe you. I agree with you. I said this in my only post on the subject shortly after the first news report. Unfortunately, so many MANY of the Official Thai Visa Committee On Picking Up The White Man's Burden don't agree with you. They have lost face. Oh my. They were posting from Minute 1 about the nasty, violent Thais. Yeah, well, this is a horrible crime whoever did it, and white people do this stuff, too. Whoever did it must pay, along with any helpers/enablers.

I had a problem right from the start with both Thais and Burmese doing this particular, horrible crime - because they had no motive to do what was done. This poor couple had no valuables to steal, weren't in anyone's face, didn't cause any ruckus. The only possible motive seems to be a kind of jealousy, a "crime of passion" as they say.

The stupid people - and they ARE stupid - who immediately piled not only on the Thais but Thailand - will they have the grace to be contrite? Is the Pope a Muslim?

.

Mate a Thai on a two day Yabba or Ice bender is more than capable of doing this in a moment of drug induced madness

Obviously there are no Foreigners out here who would be daft enough to go on a two day Yabba or Ice bender only Thais?

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Dailymail doesn't load, where I am sitting. mmmmm.

You are so lucky. If you seriously wish to view the Dailymail there is an app which is not blocked.

Found a workaround. If you copy the link address and paste it into your browser, it expands and gets you right to the article. The picture's okay. The first thing that comes to mind, unless this guy just got a haircut, no one got a handful of his hair. Would seem to be too short. And certainly not blonde. Mai chai.

Sorry mate, I have no wish to view the Dailymail. Just trying to help you out.

So those brit girls with drugs lied, lied, and lied to protect their a**es? Surely not.

The point was that most Brits agreed the Thai autorities were corrupt when they were not. Too many people are so keen to use the "corruption" angle to defend any crime by people from the West.

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Dailymail doesn't load, where I am sitting. mmmmm.

You are so lucky. If you seriously wish to view the Dailymail there is an app which is not blocked.

Apparently in the Thai language news the blood stained clothes were hidden in his luggage, also the guy had been raped too plus the girl had blonde hair in her hands, it's going to get interesting now for sure

So when initially interviewed his luggage wasn't searched and he's been carrying blood stained clothes around for a couple of days ?

If it is him he deserves to be caught.

Haven't got through all the posts yet but did they not interview one foreigner with injuries and conflicting statements and another foreigner left the island quickly as of yesterdays posts?