TorquayFan

Thanks for the reply Eddie. You are right, there's much anger amongst working taxpayers about those on benefits, the costs of immigration and the high level of taxes producing a poor level of services. You seem nearer to retirement but think how working youngsters feel as they contemplate a lifetime of work, (probably unable to buy a house), with uncertainty about what their own State pension might be later as demographic trends impact. Taking away the triple lock would be perceived as an injustice by Pensioners, but if it remains and say, RPI is 2% and wage growth 5%, workers burdened with higher ever taxes will perceive injustice if Pensioners receive a 5% hike. On balance we need to save the dosh and get working taxes down by this smidgeon and every other smidgeon that we can. It's those in work now we all depend on.

Thanks for then reply Baht. I'm not suggesting means testing everybody. HMRC know what people income is and if it's over say £50K p.a. then a State Pension sacrifice kicks in on a progressive basis. And the triple lock should be replaced by RPI index only. Gotta save a bit of dosh wherever we can !

Thanks TOG for a polite reply - I realised I was on dangerous ground LOL. Your 'negotiations' re. the 'Budget Challenge' sound a bit of old Sir Humphrey to me. Some sort of salary sacrifice for pension benefits . . MMMMmmmm I understand that NHS funding comes out of the varied tax take. Re. higher salaries for CS 'jumping ship' as you say. Of course! But generally, I think CS pay has not been lagging, given the differences. ATB

Baht. However the contributions are assembled over the years, the fact is that the OAP and PS pensions come out of our current tax takes each year. The Country has never been able to tuck it away for each of us in a bucket. It's not a private pension where broadly this stuff does happen. The wider view is that it's no good us complaining about it, had the Govt in any of these schemes tucked the money aside as we might have wished, then other taxes would have had to rise substantially.

Charlie - thanks for reply and it is easy to not get it, because the figures are mind bending. My sophisticated technique, I write the trillions etc down with requisite noughts, eliminate as many noughts in the sum as poss., then do the sum on my phone. I'm a high tech Guy LOL BTW please check the sums. ATB

No I'm not Noob. CSP are funded by the Govt. whatever the contributory structure.

Nice touch Noob but If you are under 50, you should have a lot of years to come and who knows what may arise ? I'd make the effort to get the full amount and give it away, IF I didn't need it, say for healthcare (heaven forbid) or something else. ATB

Hello TOG and thanks for the reply. Civil Service Pensions are funded, by the Govt from current tax take, broadly the same as the other state pensions. With respect - in your 3rd para you claim that CS have traditionally been paid less than the Private Sector. IMO that's a stretch of the imagination and you have to remember that most CS have a much more secure tenure than PS. To contend that the 'savings' made can justify the gold plated pension schemes because it is in the nature of a 'borrowing to be paid back', is a strange idea. Sorry to hear about pay freezes affecting CS, I remember these too as a PS worker with redundancies, closures and commercial strains to cope with too. Good for you with a 50% pension and retiring at 60, you benefited from the best of times. But at the moment, such benevolence is paid for mainly by working people's taxes, many of whom are young and burdened with Student Loans, struggling to pay rent or to be able to reach out to buy the humblest home for themselves. All good fun.

Hi Charlie. Sorry but UK Govt. debt is approaching £3 trillion equating to £44,000 approx for every man, woman and child. More than £150,000 for every 4 person family. Financed by borrowings and the printing of money.

Hi Noob. You write, "As long as the books balance, the status quo can largely continue." The point is that the books DON"T balance ! Last year 2023, the Govt spent £119 billion more than they took in tax, equating to £1,750 per person, i.e. each man, woman, child living beyond our means. But that spending does include substantial payments on Govt. debt which will reduce if interest rates fall. Re. GDP there is no growth on the horizon yet so no remedy available there. We should have listened to Mr Micawber 😉

OK thanks. Well, that's a start

Come on Denim - DO suggest, please.

Yesterday, "Years of complacency have pushed Britain into a hole from which it will be extremely expensive to escape". The cost of Public Sector pensions stands at about £49 billion p.a. which added to the costs of State OAPs, £124 billion, gives a total of £173 billion, more than is spent on the NHS annually. And let's remember, "These government pensions are not “funded”: the Government has not put any money aside for them, so all the promises have to be paid for out of current income." 'Defined benefit' schemes that were once available in the Private Sector have largely disappeared over many decades, because they were in essence, totally unaffordable. But almost 6 million workers in the Public Sector still have gold plated schemes - doctors, nurses, armed forces, police, civil servants and teachers, (some of these can retire much earlier than 67! ). UK Government borrowings last year were £119 billion or about £1,750 per person, that's living above our income, each year. Outstanding UK Govt debt approaching £3 trillion equates to £44,000 for each man, woman and child. Looking at the tax burden for Pensions alone, for each of our 33 million working population, each worker has to contribute £5,242 in taxes to pay for pensions alone. Average income stands at about £33K. Given that people are happily living longer and demographics are going top-end as birth rates fall, its frankly madness to think these costs are sustainable. Figures are boring I know but unfortunately, there is no other way of making the case. I was suggesting on another thread that the triple lock has to go but it's not the only problem with pensions. if anyone reads this, I doubt these thoughts get many admirers, which gives emphasis to the idea that it's sometimes hard to do the necessary in democracies. Worth the read IMO, even though it's the DT https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/28/great-pension-reckoning-coming-money-almost-run-out/

Hi Chomper. I'm not sure what 'blearing' is, but anyway, right or left, my thoughts on the triple lock are led by uncomfortable realities. The UK Govt in 2023 borrowed £119 billion. Such uncomfortable realities as this cannot be faced, because of the need to court Voters. Democracy is still the best but this drawback is IMO, more than evident. FYI £119 billion approximates to a Govt spend per person of £1,700, (for every man woman and child). With Govt. debt approaching £3 trillion now, which is £43,000 per man woman and child. Approx ! But you see the message? Nothing to do with wings at all !

Thanks TGJB - lest we forget ! And good to see those UK stats. Vit D3 5000iu and a mask on the plane for me. But endemic now . . . not the other one. ATB

Thanks TGJB - sad to see that Covid is still around. I don't see much about Covid in the UK press these days ?

OK Chomper, I get it and thanks for the reply. I agree, 'ludicrous' is a good word for those suggestion from Avin Laff. But I don't think you are right here - "UK State Pensions an entitlement paid for by individuals’ NI contributions". Rather, 'UK State Pensions an entitlement PARTLY paid for by individuals’ NI contributions'. Whilst the period and amount an individual contributes is used to calibrate the entitlement at Pensionable Age, I'm afraid it's a fact that the payments to Pensioners each year, come out of the current national tax take from all sources. The Tories (JH and RS) have reduced the rate of EMPLOYEE's NI, (long regarded as an extra slice of income tax), as this is a way of encouraging those in work as distinct from those on benefits. I think that's a laudable aim and I hope that the Govt succeed in reducing EMPLOYEE's NI to 0%. Makes perfect sense, leaving the EMPLOYER's NI as a sort of payroll tax. If the Govts' intention is to cut Employer's NI too in due course, then I think that's a good idea too BUT of course, the revenue will have to be raised elsewhere, say VAT, Fuel duty etc. With a change of Govt likely next year, who knows where this ends up? ATB

Chomper, I'm guessing you are reacting to that quote in bold, which was a comment from me. So if I may answer, it would of course, be difficult to organise a national scheme for OAP's without some sort of 'big' Government.

Avin Laff ?? So it's OK now to means test to make sure the Govt. isn't financing frivolity when others are in penury. I agree. Your ideas re. hospital and education - what the heck ? BTW isn't it 'larf'. ATB

Srivichai is OK and close to 'Tiger is coming' Bar with a fine range of imported beers. Also I heard a new Falang bar had started up close by. I used to stay at the old Chaopraya now renovated - that's probably OK now.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting there should be NO increases to the OAP. I think the equitable way is to link the OAP to the RPI alone. I see no logic for a 2.5% minimum or increases in line with average wage increases.

A hidden gem in Pattaya, for me, the Bar at the front of the 'One Bay Breeze' hotel in Pattayasaisong 12 Alley - (opposite a couple of sports bars). The Hotel itself rates well and the food accompanied by a glass of draught Chang beer was inexpensive, different and delicious. Fortunately I don't visit Pattaya often, but I was staying at the Siam Guesthouse around the corner, which was good value too. So it's 'One Bay Breeze' next time you want a quieter pint. GL

Good morning Avin Laff - I understand your own position completely and I am not criticising your wanting to receive your OAP to facilitate "the idea of frivolity" but it is the Govts. task to look out for the wider good is it not? Therefore, IMHO, payment of the OAP should be means tested, as for some, a little more spread around would help with real unmet needs for say, food, health, rent etc. As Da La posted earlier, cancelling the 'triple lock' would certainly NOT be a vote winner. Tories and Labour know this 100% but instead of being realistic and working together on the obvious need to cut back, they are flirting with the Voters. On the other point, surely means testing of OAP would be digestible for many Labour voters?

Somo - Korat is a big place but IMO these days it's quiet for Falang fun. Leosor is central close to the Monkey Bar where Falang meet with some other bars in walking distance. Srivichai is cheaper and in the same area. Enjoy

Avin Laff - "Why pay for something you're not going to get? As I suggested before, you did get it! BUT in the form of maybe roads, schools, Hospitals etc. ad nauseam. It's just another Tax used to pay current stuff. But why give OAP to those amply provided already? Ah 'Boots and Laces' - erstwhile I knew Steve Cooper, many Fans all time favourite . . . . GN