eliotness

Sorry to rain on peoples parade, but when you undertake a "life cycle analysis" of a nuclear power station you find there is a huge amount of emitted CO2 in its construction because of the amount of high-grade steel and concrete required. Then there's the extraction of the fuel source and its enrichment. Finally there is the nuclear waste, which is a huge story in itself. So gentlemen whilst nuclear power can be a contributor to a balanced energy plan, it will not negate CO2 emissions.

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

Are you really saying the manufacture of all the munitions and their use in all the 20th century wars had no effect on CO2 levels ? Wow that's one heck of an assumption, and then of course there's the 2 nuclear bombs + all the bomb tests by both right wing and left wing governments. As you are so "facts based" I would like to know which scientific papers you referenced to prove that assumption.

Sure it's not unusual for ships to be caught in ice-flows. My point was it was ironic that a team sent to observe retreating ice sheets got caught in an expanding one.

Why don't you research whether munitions effect CO₂ levels? Explosives are generally Nitrous based. Nuclear bombs are atomic based so I don't think they would effect CO₂ levels. I have never come across it being mentioned or referred too in scientific literature (as opposed too Denier bloggsites).

Not unusual for sea ice to shift on currents and wedge a ship and require icebreakers to come in and drag them out.

Your lack of basic science is astounding. The nuclear bombs vapourised any carbon based material. The fire-storms in WW2 burned all carbon based material. The manufacture of ordinance requires energy. I think you should read the ISO standard for life cycle analysis.

As for the ship full of climate warming supporters who got stuck, it wasn't just a shifting ice sheet as you say, it was a rapidly expanding ice sheet. As for it being not unusual, ok for 1 ice-breaker to help, but it took 2 and who pray tell bore the cost of that ?

Sorry Borborygmus, I obviously need to clarify that point about "partisan". OK the climate is changing, as I said before it always has done, for millions of years. I don't think that can be disputed. The fact that man is polluting the planet too is beyond dispute. Man has to live, so even with the best will in the world man will contribute CO2 to the atmosphere and with the earth's human population estimated (by scientists) to grow to over 12 billion by 2100, that contribution, just by breathing, cooking etc will continue to grow. Where the partisan bit comes in is how much of that contribution we can reduce and if so will it have a significant effect on the changing climate. Politics only really comes into it when governments slap "green taxes" on fuels etc.

I think we have got way off track guys. The thread was about the UN delegates signing a document to say they will take steps to address climate change.

I don't think anyone disputes the climate is changing, heck it always has done from the beginning of time.

The debate is 1. Whether the whole or part of the current change is due to man's activities;

and 2. Whether anything significant will be done by the politicians who signed the "Accord".

For me, 1. "Part" is more than likely, but to quantify the scale of that effect is open to partisan opinions -on both sides. For 2. Not a cat in hells chance

So from what has been said by the more vocal posters "we are all doomed". I don't see that a few politicians signing some Accord at the UN is going to make even the slightest difference to the Armageddon predicted in this thread. Man is harming the planet in an unsustainable way (please guys, the possible effect on climate is only one aspect of that harm, you can't focus on just one) and is breeding at an unsustainable rate too. So what to do ?

Well I for one will sit down with my ice-cold beer, with the aircon on and think "well it was nice while it lasted".

Those of you who think you can change human nature, well good luck to you, enjoy your dream before the nightmare you predict arrives

Therefore, Mr Stillbornagain, correct me if I'm wrong, melting sea ice should have no effect on sea levels, e.g. half fill a glass with water, top up to the top with ice, when that floating ice melts there will be no change in the water level in the glass. OK, but not sure about the Greenland ice. The Southern ice-cap is a different story and as you say the ice sheets keep expanding and retreating on a regular basis.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You're ranting. But ok, I'll take the bait, and address some of your concerns. I don't use air-con, I seldom take a plane ride (once every several years, tops). Whenever I possible, I bicycle or walk instead of using internal combustion motors. My water system is 100% solar driven, and the panels were bought 2nd hand. The tower I built for holding the panels is made from recycled materials. I mulch plants, so there's less need for water. I grow about 20% of my food (living alone), so that's less food that needs to be sprayed, packaged, shipped, refrigerated, etc.

As for your closing sentence, I've been mentioning as loud and clear as possible about the manifold problems of human populations.

How have you been doing?

Your opening sentence in retort, "What the heck has measles got to do with climate change(?)" Answer: the reason I mentioned that is to underline the anti-science bent of right wingers. Usually being anti-science doesn't do any real harm. However, being against immunizations, for example, can have dire repercussions for many others. Similar is happening in Taliban-held regions. Polio is almost eradicated ww, but there are a few pockets of right-wing Muslims who are keeping Polio virulent, by disrupting vaccinations.

Anti-science attitudes affect Global Warming in different ways. The repercussions are not as immediate (as anti-immunization trends), as it will take decades for warming to gain steam. Yet already, migrant crises are taking place in several regions (usually people fleeing drought-devastated regions), and they're only going to get worse as the years roll by. Coastal cities are more prone to flooding, year by year. And so it goes......

I was part of an organisation that raised many millions of $s for the polio eradication. It's failure in certain countries was because of religious nutters. The rejection of immunisation in the West was not a political thing, it was caused by ignorance and some misleading information released by scientists.

I do admire your green credentials and you are doing your bit setting an example, although it would be difficult for everyone to do similar without massive government support, which unfortunately ain't going to happen.

As for the migrant crisis being mainly due to people fleeing drought affected areas, oops and I thought it was because of conflict and chances to earn more money. All because of over-population.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You will find the majority of Right Wingers finally have come around to the actual science of GW / CC. Just a few stragglers like you to round up. The vast majority of Nations have signed on to addressing GW and limiting it to under 2^Oc. Why don't you look up the global surface temperature data yourself? It is published on the Internet. Berkeley Earth, NASA GISS, UK Met, Japan Met. Instead of just looking at the misinformation and propaganda put out by the Fossil Fuel Industry on bloggsites why don't you look at the actual scientific evidence?

Your use of "right wing" is wrong and "left wing" is correct shows your political agenda and totally ignores the fact that 2 of the countries/governments that have caused the most environmental damage are left wing i.e. communist. Your arguments would be more believable if you dropped the obvious politics.

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

In fact 99% of scientists were not. Such reports published in the Press were dismissed immediately. Same old misinformation over and over again.

I was an environmental scientist at that time, so I guess I was one of the 1%. Strange though, all the scientists I worked with all thought an ice-age was possible. It seems you've swallowed the propaganda hook line and sinker.

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

Are you really saying the manufacture of all the munitions and their use in all the 20th century wars had no effect on CO2 levels ? Wow that's one heck of an assumption, and then of course there's the 2 nuclear bombs + all the bomb tests by both right wing and left wing governments. As you are so "facts based" I would like to know which scientific papers you referenced to prove that assumption.

Sure it's not unusual for ships to be caught in ice-flows. My point was it was ironic that a team sent to observe retreating ice sheets got caught in an expanding one.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

Unfortunately criminals worldwide find ways to hide their activities and no better way is/was to align themselves to the political party that is/was in power. These people are pure criminals and should be jailed for their crimes. To make a political show of it is to dilute the crime. Just jail the bastards, end of story !

It seems the authorities are quick to cash in on a PR opportunity with winning competitors yet I can't see evidence that the Ministry of Tourism and Sports actually supports these athletes during their training by providing training facilities and finance. Do they?

Even in the UK this is a rich man's sport alongside all the horsey sports. These are sports of the elite. But that doesn't belittle her achievement because she was competing against other countries rich kids. So well done, but I doubt if the government helped her with a single baht, so a bit of a joke for the junta to claim any credit, or try to jump on the bandwagon.

Bit like the KFC of beers, OK when desperate, but there are better beers available ?

Anyone else confused by this ? Seems to say one thing and then says the reverse. Or is it another NNT translation error !

Good for her, hope she gets more medals, but saying she's "an athlete", when in fact she was taking part in a form of clay pigeon shooting, must be a translation mistake by NNT.

Cheers, but I still miss a pint of IPA ?

An overhaul of the garbage management system and all related laws sounds good, BUT without appropriate enforcement it's meaningless, just more talk again !!!

The Avalon has been mentioned in several posts as being good. It is near the bus station and within walking distance of the consulate.

Cheers Joe, I'll look them up. Are the required docs the same as last year for a multi entry non O based on marriage - sorry to be a pain, but you seem to have a wealth of knowledge.

Eliotness, what's your budget, plenty of horrible cheap places and a few good ones.

Paul, last time I stayed at the Savanah Vegas, 1,000 baht a night - never again, horrible experience. So looking +/- same price but in town, as I want to stay 2 nights and wander round the old town and have some french/lao food and resonably priced beer lao.

Has anyone got any up to date recommendations for accommodation in Savannakhet ? I've seen ones posted before, but like everywhere things can change. Please !

Oh dear ! Thainess, the rest of the world doesn't understand !

I really hope that letter was proof read by someone totally fluent in English, otherwise it could make the Ministry look silly, at best, or ruthless liars at worse. This is one of those times it really would have been better for the Minister to just smile and say nothing.

Agreed, politicians are the major problem. Here is a little "oops" for Exxon: http://www.prwatch.org/news/2016/04/13092/dci-group-subpoenaed-expanding-exxon-climate-denial-investigation

That's correct, it's politicians who are THE PROBLEM. They are in a "win win" situation, they impose "green taxes" to save the planet, a tiny fraction of which is actually spent on environmental projects and in the meantime the big polluters pay big-time into their party funds. That's why I smile when the farangs talk about corruption in Thailand.