Liquorice

May I ask why you want to be entered on the Civil Register and obtain a Tabian Baan in Chiang Mai, when you live in Bangkok?

I'd like the condo that I own to have a Tabien Bahn registered for it.

No further comment needed, unless it relates to the OP questions.

You should be issued with a Tabian Baan when you purchase the Condo.

I assume you are paying a lawyer!

Every new build is given an address by the Amphur which is recorded.

When you purchase, your lawyer should apply for the Tabian Baan automatically.

Foreigners owning Condo's should be issued with a Blue book, but they will not register your name in the book.

If you want to be named in a book, the you take the Blue book and deeds as proof of ownership and request a Yellow book for foreigners.

You can only be named in one Tabian Baan, regardless of how many properties you own.

Foreigners with PR status can be added to a wife's blue Tabian Baan, but all other foreigners can only register and be named in a Yellow house book.

Stapoz.

She has only mother, who would stay in Thailand alone (with bf) when we go Poland, so I'm not sure about this (not sure if her mother can carry the shop). What about my gf support for her mother, if her mother will not insist her after few moths to come back (because she either will miss daughter or her support and money), or at least insist my gf/wife to send money to mother which is not acceptable for me

In Asian cultures, it's quite normal to support parents when they are elderly.

Unless the Mother had a good job which pays a good retirement pension, then she will only get a state pension (800 baht pm)

Your g/f will in her own mind be thinking about working to send money home.

If that's not possible, then as a dependant, the Mother can always move in with you in Poland.

You need to speak to your g/f about her expectations and the financial support of her Mother.

You could be heading straight for divorce if you don't discuss these issues first.

May I ask why you want to be entered on the Civil Register and obtain a Tabian Baan in Chiang Mai, when you live in Bangkok?

I'm just trying to understand the rules - if I want to move to an apartment. Maybe can BBQ and stuff.

Maybe it's easier than I think.

I'm good to go here at the hotel and pretty happy ( 6,000 Bt per month ). I have a motor bike and can find the food I want.

I just am dreaming of a larger fridge and a BBQ and maybe more channels on the TV ( and maybe better internet connection ).

Anyway, no rush.

Not so easy up here in Maha Sarakhom as hardly anyone can speak English. I rarely see falang. My Thai is just OK.

Why people like pattaya is beyond me. Maybe just a stage in life.

I highly recommend Maha Sarakhom. Whatever your looking for is here - and more. however you will need a motor bike or car.

It's been 10 years since I've been to pattaya - maybe take my girl for a visit down there to see.

Anyway, I'm just conserned about moving out of the hotel and my 90 day report stuff.

If your moving to a new address, there is a procedure to follow.

1. Make sure your new landlord will supply you with a lease, a copy of their ID card, a copy of their Tabian Baan. Signed and contact number.

It is these documents you will need in the future, so make copies for yourself.

2. Complete a TM28 (change of address)

3.The landlord should complete a TM30 (report of alien staying at residence)

Take the following documents with the above forms to your Immigration Office.;

Original Passport

Passport Homepage showing given names / Passport Number / Hologram etc.

- Last Visa

- Last Extension stamp

- Last Entry Stamp

Copy of House owners Tabian Ban

Copy of House owners ID card.

Original Rental Agreement + Copy (If rented)

Map detailing Address + Copy

Original TM 6 Departure Card + Copy

Once Immigration change your address on their database, you should ask them for a Certificate of Residence.

As you have a motorcycle and I presume a Driving Licence, you should then update your licence showing the new address.

Go to you local Driving Licence Centre and take the following documents.

1. Passport + Copy of Homepage + Copy of Extension.

2. Existing Thai Licence + Copy

3. Health Certificate + Copy

4. Proof of Address: Certificate of Residence + Copy

5. The Fee

(A Driving Licence is often accepted as a form of ID. It contains your name, ID number, and your address on the rear.)

You are now up to date with your documents.

Future 90 day reports can be made in person, by mail, or depending when you last entered Thailand, online via internet.

Please advise me of your preferred method and I'll post the procedure and documents required.

Photos presented to The Phuket News show a cut over Ms Zhang's left eye and minor abrasions on her forehead.

Ms Zhang was with friends on a liveaboard dive tour on the MV Peterpan, operated by the Similan Seven Sea Club dive company based in Khao Lak, -

Where were her friends? Didn't they notice she was missing?

Seems more to this story than what's published.

They just aren't taught how to handle a car with any skills.

Why do they always attempt to park in a space by going forwards, instead of reversing.

Why do they need to be in the middle lane to turn left or right.

Why do they always have to be in front, only to then slow down.

It's their mind set, no consideration and no skills.

So single entry is a possible, what we are after is the 6 month duration. Single entry is OK if we can get 6 months. We have read the Thai announcement (via South Africa) and it states a vague reference that the new 6 month visa can be obtain at any world wide Thai embassy. But it did not state that has to be the country of origin of the travel. We still have a while left on our old visa's so we'll be watching this site.

Thxs RD-

The METV is only available to citizens or confirmed residents of the Country you apply.

If you want 6 months, your only option is to get the SETV then extend for 30 days = 90 days.

Then repeat again.

Faz,

In one post you state that you successfully posted your TM30 Form and received the confirmation slip.

Then in a later post, it states CMX IM is not accepting TM30 by post

Please advise

Ignoring the law and paying the 2,000 baht fine doesn't achieve anything, because you will still be required to submit the form even though you pay the fine.

According to the Immigration website and the Immigration Act, the TM30 can be presented in person, or by an appointed person, or by mail.

I completed my TM30 in the absence of my landlord, sent it by EMS, pre registered return envelope (along with copies of my landlords ID card and Tabian Baan, signed with contact number) and the tear off receipt of the notification was returned 5 days later.

EDIT: According to the Chiang Mai Immigration website (FAQ) the TM30 can be submitted by an agent, in person, or by registered mail.

2. Question : What do the house-master/owner or possessor of the residence have to do,if the alien granted temporary stay in Thailand has stayed in his/her house/residence? (Is it possible for an agent to do for?)

Answer : He/She (The owner of the residence) must notify (by the Form TM.30) to the competent official Of the Immigration Office located in the same area of that house/residence within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien. However, such notification could be made in person or by an agent or sent with completed Form( TM.30) by registered post.

http://www.chiangmaiimm.com/en/frequently-asked-questions-faq-.html

No wonder there is confusion, appears as usual there is a left hand/ right hand problem at immigration.

Which office did you post the TM30 to?

Thanks

I posted mine to Amnat.

See post #54 from the almost identical thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/818144-tm-30-form/page-3

There is a similar topic running http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/818144-tm-30-form/page-3

Post #51 the member Thailand posted;

The manager of our Moo Baan called Chiang Mai immigration and the confirmed that they will not accept form TM30 by post despite it being on their website.

In the case of Chiang Mai form TM30 should be submitted at the airport immigration,

Docs required:

TM30, Plus the additional form that has the tenant(s) info.

Signed copies of the tenant(s) passport(s)

Blue or Yellow house book + signed copies.

Housemaster ID and signed copy.

At least that how it is today!

It appears Chiang Mai are not following the procedures as laid down on their own website, the Immigration Act or the main Bangkok Immigration website.

Has any Chiang Mai expat considered trying the Immigration helpline 1111 to complain.

Ignoring the law and paying the 2,000 baht fine doesn't achieve anything, because you will still be required to submit the form even though you pay the fine.

According to the Immigration website and the Immigration Act, the TM30 can be presented in person, or by an appointed person, or by mail.

I completed my TM30 in the absence of my landlord, sent it by EMS, pre registered return envelope (along with copies of my landlords ID card and Tabian Baan, signed with contact number) and the tear off receipt of the notification was returned 5 days later.

EDIT: According to the Chiang Mai Immigration website (FAQ) the TM30 can be submitted by an agent, in person, or by registered mail.

2. Question : What do the house-master/owner or possessor of the residence have to do,if the alien granted temporary stay in Thailand has stayed in his/her house/residence? (Is it possible for an agent to do for?)

Answer : He/She (The owner of the residence) must notify (by the Form TM.30) to the competent official Of the Immigration Office located in the same area of that house/residence within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien. However, such notification could be made in person or by an agent or sent with completed Form( TM.30) by registered post.

http://www.chiangmaiimm.com/en/frequently-asked-questions-faq-.html

From Chiangmai Imm website FAQ

"2. Question : What do the house-master/owner or possessor of the residence have to do,if the alien granted temporary stay in Thailand has stayed in his/her house/residence? (Is it possible for an agent to do for?)

Answer : He/She (The owner of the residence) must notify (by the Form TM.30) to the competent official Of the Immigration Office located in the same area of that house/residence within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien. However, such notification could be made in person or by an agent or sent with completed Form( TM.30) by registered post."

And Bangkok main immigration web site. Has anyone tried using the mail in method successfully?

• In person at the respective office, or
• Through an authorised person at the respective office, or
• By registered mail, or
• Via internet.

Mailing them by mail is not mentioned in the immigration act so I suspect most offices would refuse a mailed in report.

The method of reporting is in fact mentioned in the Immigration Act, although only Immigration have copies of the Director Generals regulations.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has

stayed under provision of Para.1 is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division.

Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with regulations prescribed by the Director General.

Because my landlord lived in a separate Province I asked Amnat about the procedure for supplying a TM30.

They told me that;

1. I could complete the TM30 as the Tenant

2. I could take it in person, by registered mail, or designate another person to hand it in.

They did state that I must attach copies of my landlords ID card and Tabiaan Baan, signed and contact number if sending by mail.

I sent it by EMS, pre paid registered return.

Received the notification portion back 5 days later.

EDIT: If my memory is correct they actually said that a TM47, TM28, TM30 (subject to submitting the correct documentation), anything that had a tear off section that they could return, could be sent by mail.

Only anything requiring a stamp would need to be made in person.

As always, check with your own Immigration Office first.

Right, but on the immigration link what I showed they wrote that THIS IS FOR BUSINESS!!! So Thai wifes can refuse to pay it because it's the immigration self who inform the public that this is only for business!!! Or they wrote somewhere private family/wife, or something else? NO!!!

What is with the Farangs who own appartements or houses? They reported their address already to the Immigration when they arrived in Thailand!!!

And in FACT the wife must report it again (you reported it yourself at arrival), the Immigration must tell it exactly on their website. In the moment it is: "Only for business!!!" and the wifes can refuse to pay!!!

The Immigration website only gives procedures and guidance.

I suggest you read Section 37, 38 and 4 of the Immigration Act to understand the law on reporting of an aliens address.

Section 37 deals with the responsibility of the foreigner to report his address, or change of address.

Section 38 deals with the responsibility of the house master, owner or occupier of the residence to report the foreigner at that given address (TM30)

Section 4 defines house master, i.e. who is responsible for filing the TM30.

So yes, a foreigner must report his address, and the house master responsible for the property must also report the foreigners address.

In certain cases this will be the same person, the foreigner.

It may not always be a Thai who completes this form.

Many foreigners own their own house or Condo.

Sometimes a landlord may live overseas.

That's why section 4 defines the house master (the person responsible to report an alien staying at a residence) as the owner, chief possessor or tenant.

It's a double check on the address you report.

Right, but on the immigration link what I showed they wrote that THIS IS FOR BUSINESS!!! So Thai wifes can refuse to pay it because it's the immigration self who inform the public that this is only for business!!! Or they wrote somewhere private family/wife, or something else? NO!!!

What is with the Farangs who own appartements or houses? They reported their address already to the Immigration when they arrived in Thailand!!!

And in FACT the wife must report it again (you reported it yourself at arrival), the Immigration must tell it exactly on their website. In the moment it is: "Only for business!!!" and the wifes can refuse to pay!!!

That Immigration page is explaining the procedure for Thai business's (hotels, guest house) only.

The Immigration Act, Section 38, covers the requirements and responsibility for all foreigners to be reported by the hotel, guest house manager, house master, possessor or occupier of any property to report an alien residing at any given property.

Hotels, guesthouses (business's) accommodate millions of foreigners annually (Tourists) and are by far the largest suppliers of accommodation to foreigners.

Their procedure is slightly different to that of a foreigner taking residence in the private housing market, because registered business's have the facility to complete the TM30 form online, something a private landlord, tenant or occupier cannot do.

It is merely a separate page aimed at the business's that operate throughout Thailand, it does not mean it excludes the private sector of housing, nor that is only for foreigners with a business.

Sec 38: "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence ,..."

Terms: "'House Master' means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act."

The term "tenant" refers to the "chief possessor of a house" who lives in the house, as opposed to the chief possessor of a house who does not live there, but "owns" the house (possess means own, not rent).

I believe you are inferring incorrectly that "tenant" means someone with no chief possessor status, which would mean a renter must file himself. This is not what Section 38 says, and it is not what the "terms" refer to.

The distinction of "owner" and "tenant" is to illuminate the differences between a person who owns a property but does not live there and one who owns the property where he resides (the "tenant," which is different from "renter"). If the section had meant "renter" it would have stated that.

Section 38 states;

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned

Section 4 Definitions.

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

My landlady is the owner, she does not live here. I am therefore the main possessor (occupier) of the property.

I also have a lease to rent the property, so I am also the tenant.

I completed my own TM30, but I did include copies of the owners ID card and Tabian Baan, who wasn't available.

Sec 38: "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence ,..."

Terms: "'House Master' means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act."

The term "tenant" refers to the "chief possessor of a house" who lives in the house, as opposed to the chief possessor of a house who does not live there, but "owns" the house (possess means own, not rent).

I believe you are inferring incorrectly that "tenant" means someone with no chief possessor status, which would mean a renter must file himself. This is not what Section 38 says, and it is not what the "terms" refer to.

The distinction of "owner" and "tenant" is to illuminate the differences between a person who owns a property but does not live there and one who owns the property where he resides (the "tenant," which is different from "renter"). If the section had meant "renter" it would have stated that.

What happens if I get drunk one night and end up spending the night at some seedy hotel with a cheap floozy? Am I obliged to tell everyone where I`ve been? Is there a special form for that?

It could be conceived as an unprotected entry.

Complete the CLAP form available at your nearest Clinic

Reminds me of the joke about the Irish Road repair outfit.

Paddy and Mick pull up in their wagon on a street full of potholes.

As they go along the street Paddy digs out the loose materials, ready for resurfacing.

Mick shovels all the loose material Paddy digs out onto the truck.

They go up and down the street doing the same thing.

A resident, who has been watching the whole event, eventually comes out to quiz them.

"Your not leaving them like that are you? Shouldn't you fill the holes that are even bigger now"

"Ah now" says Paddy "I dig out the holes for resurfacing and Mick shovels the rubbish on the truck".

"Well who fills the holes" says the worried resident.

"Ah now" replies Paddy, that would be Shamus's job, but he passed away last week"

May I ask?

If a Falang lives in a house owned by his Thai girlfriend or wife, even for several years, does it mean having to take along this TM30 palaver filled in by the Thai partner to get a retirement extension from now on?

Theoretically a TM30 should only need to be filed once as long as you remain at the address given as your permanent residence to Immigration.

If you haven't previously filed a TM30, I suggest you file one when doing your next extension.

If Chiang Mai are requesting a new TM30 every time an extension is applied for, then I assume it's because they are to lazy or busy to check your file for an existing TM30. You should have a receipt stapled in your passport of the TM30 if you have previously filed.

If they are requesting refilling every year, it's overkill and I'm guessing they're just covering their backsides.

So if i go to visit friends or go to a different location within Thailand for a short time

Do i have to notify Immigration when i get back to my rental Condo

Or get My Condo Office as its the Building owner Condo, to do this TM30 Reporting again?

As they did when i first arrived here

According to the Act;

Section37. 4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

There is a difference between your place of 'permanent residence' and a place of 'temporary stay'

Do I report to a local Police office if I'm temporarily staying at a friends for a few days.........No!

According to the Act I should, and they should file a TM30 as the 'House Master'

It appears to be only the requirements of reporting 'permanent residence' that is being enforced by Immigration.

Reporting a 'temporary stay' would be unworkable in my opinion as the local Police stations to which you are supposed to report are clueless about their own Immigration procedures and think the foreigner is taking some form of medication or Yabba.

May I ask?

If a Falang lives in a house owned by his Thai girlfriend or wife, even for several years, does it mean having to take along this TM30 palaver filled in by the Thai partner to get a retirement extension from now on?

Theoretically a TM30 should only need to be filed once as long as you remain at the address given as your permanent residence to Immigration.

If you haven't previously filed a TM30, I suggest you file one when doing your next extension.

If Chiang Mai are requesting a new TM30 every time an extension is applied for, then I assume it's because they are to lazy or busy to check your file for an existing TM30. You should have a receipt stapled in your passport of the TM30 if you have previously filed.

If they are requesting refilling every year, it's overkill and I'm guessing they're just covering their backsides.

As a foreigner when entering Thailand you complete a TM6 which notifies your address to Immigration.

In the case of a hotel, or guest house the manager should report the presence of the alien (TM30) using the online facility available to them.

In the case of a private residence, then the House Master, owner, chief possessor of the residence should file the TM30.

The foreigner has complied with the Act filing a TM6.

The House Master has complied with the Act filing the TM30.

If you move to a new permanent address then the foreigner should complete a TM28.

The House Master should complete a TM30.

If you stay at a temporary address within Thailand for longer than 24 hours (visiting friends, holiday) then the foreigner should report his temporary place of stay to the local Police station within that Province(not Immigration).

A TM28 and TM30 should only be required to submitted once, unless you move to a new permanent residence.

However leaving the Country is deemed as leaving your permanent residence, so on return the foreigner files the TM6, the housemaster files a new TM30.

That is my understanding of the law and the interpretation of my Immigration office.

CYBERFARANG:

You MAY find this link useful.

http://donslifeinthailand.com/Address_Change.html

TM28 and TM30 are not a new requirement, just that they are now being enforced at CM Immigration, another nice little earner I guess.

That link and the personal report of one person are very misleading and factually incorrect.

Power of Attorney..........ridiculous!

As a foreigner it's your responsibility to be aware of the Immigration Laws.

Section 37 and 38 deal with the responsibility of the foreigner to report his address, and the responsibility of the house master, owner or possessor of the property to report the presence of an alien taking residence.

Under Section 4 of the Immigration Act, the 'House Master' is defined as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

Who actually completes the TM30 depends on the circumstances surrounding the occupation of the property.

I am single, renting a private house. My landlady lives in another Province and I never see her.

As the chief possessor and tenant of the said property, I completed the TM30 in the absence of the landlord.

Many Thais have no knowledge of this requirement to report an alien, why should they, they are not under any Immigration control.

You as the foreigner are, and you should be aware of the laws governing your stay in Thailand.

It takes 20 minutes to read the Act.

Thai Immigration_Act_EN.pdf

Gives a whole new meaning to 'burning rubber'

Ubonjoe,

That is not what Chiang Mai Immigration is saying, they say she MUST report our visitors to immigration.

Guess the rules are different one province to another?.

As far as taking up residence back in CM after a visit, they are saying 24 hours otherwise a fine, it does not matter if I stay in BK or not it's still 24 hours up here...according to CM immigration

I'm really confused about all of this?

My point about your visitors was how would they know they are staying with you unless they went to immigration for some reason.

The immigration act sets the rules.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned."

How would a hotel report a person within 24 hours of arrival in the country if they stayed someplace else before checking in.

Even saying your wife has to report your arrival at your home every time you leave and return is rubbish.

If the visitor is staying at a friends private residence then he should indicate that on the TM6 so Immigration will be informed.

Ubonjoe,

That is not what Chiang Mai Immigration is saying, they say she MUST report our visitors to immigration.

Guess the rules are different one province to another?.

As far as taking up residence back in CM after a visit, they are saying 24 hours otherwise a fine, it does not matter if I stay in BK or not it's still 24 hours up here...according to CM immigration

I'm really confused about all of this?

The law is the same across the Country, as defined by the Immigration Act.

It's how each Offices or Officer applies the laws that causes confusion.

When you enter the Country you complete a TM6 which notifies Immigration of your address.

The hotel or guesthouse manager should notify Immigration of an alien residing at the property. (TM30)

If it's a private address, the house master, owner, or possessor should notify Immigration. (TM30)

A TM28 (change of address) only needs completing if you move to a new permanent address.

If you temporarily stay at a different address then you only need to inform the local Police station within that area.

The house master of that address where you temporary stay though should notify Immigration (TM30)

According to my Immigration office and my own interpretation of the law, if you leave the Country you are in fact deemed to have left your permanent address in Thailand. On return you complete a new TM6 which will notify Immigration of your address and return, but the house master must notify Immigration you have taken up permanent residence at that address again.

If friends from abroad come to stay at your private residence the they should put your address on the TM6, that is the foreigners obligations fulfilled.

The house master where they stay should notify of aliens staying at their address on the TM30.

House master is defined as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

why aren't all snakes non-venomous?

why aren't all animals venomous?

why can't all animals fly?

......on the origin of species...... good read

But the point is that 1) there's a route from saliva to venom that some took, so you'd think others could selectively evolve their way to it, and 2) given that the snakes are competing for the same rats you'd (again) think the venom gang would displace all others.

Leaving aside the question of speciation - why some lizards ditched their legs because they were enough of a nuisance in tunnels to make it a net gain - why (that move made) wouldn't a species develop venom or be out-competed by those that did?

ah but its a process and maybe in 20 million years there will be no venomous snakes

The wife's venom is worse than any snake, and she's only been evolving for 44 years