TM-30 Form

[expatbrit]

Last two times I've been to immigration to do a 90 day they have double checked there is one on record for me, and they told me I need to bring the receipt to the next extension application.

Receipt for what ?

[Maestro]

A hotel would enter the checking out date.

...

No, a hotel would not. The arrival of the foreigner is reported with the TM.30, within 24 hours of his arrival, not his departure.

[Liquorice]

A hotel would enter the checking out date.

...

No, a hotel would not. The arrival of the foreigner is reported with the TM.30, within 24 hours of his arrival, not his departure.

I beg to differ Maestro.

My friend owns a holiday apartment complex in Pattaya.

Tourists usually book for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.

When he sends the TM30 reports online, he enters the date of their arrival and the date of expected departure.

OJAS was talking specifically about the second part (page) titled 'Name of Alien in Residence' of the TM30, the list of foreigners and their is a column 'Expired date of Stay'.

My friend enters the checking out date for the period they booked as instructed by Immigration. Whether they go home after that is none of his business.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Faz

[Liquorice]

Last two times I've been to immigration to do a 90 day they have double checked there is one on record for me, and they told me I need to bring the receipt to the next extension application.

Receipt for what ?

The tear off strip from the TM30, a receipt of supplying the report.

I keep mine stapled in my passport.

[mca]

Just to clarify I've never submitted a TM 30 form in 18 years here ( my bad) so when I do my marriage extension at Khon Kaen in a couple of weeks should I take a completed one with extra copies of my wife's ID and tabien ban, hand it in if they ask for it and suck it up and pay a fine?

Cheers.

[Maestro]

...

My friend owns a holiday apartment complex in Pattaya.

Tourists usually book for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.

When he sends the TM30 reports online, he enters the date of their arrival and the date of expected departure.

OJAS was talking specifically about the second part (page) titled 'Name of Alien in Residence' of the TM30, the list of foreigners and their is a column 'Expired date of Stay'.

My friend enters the checking out date for the period they booked as instructed by Immigration. Whether they go home after that is none of his business.

Thank you. This is further proof that even some immigration officials are confused about the use of the TM.30.

[Liquorice]

...

My friend owns a holiday apartment complex in Pattaya.

Tourists usually book for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.

When he sends the TM30 reports online, he enters the date of their arrival and the date of expected departure.

OJAS was talking specifically about the second part (page) titled 'Name of Alien in Residence' of the TM30, the list of foreigners and their is a column 'Expired date of Stay'.

My friend enters the checking out date for the period they booked as instructed by Immigration. Whether they go home after that is none of his business.

Thank you. This is further proof that even some immigration officials are confused about the use of the TM.30.

I understand the system and what the authorities are trying to achieve, that is the location of all foreigners.

The whole system though is flawed and full of loopholes.

The long term expats who are in the system are being penalised because Immigration have failed in the past to enforce their own laws.

There is no consistency from one office to another with requirements which causes total confusion.

There must be thousands of expats, married, who stay in Thailand on Non Imm 0 Visas obtained from Savannakhet who have no dealings with Immigration offices within Thailand. They and their wives may have no idea about address reporting procedures, never filed a TM30 or TM28, but the poor foreigner who is trying to do it by the book, faces scrutiny and persecution by Immigration offices, because they are supposed to know better.

In Thailand, where tourism is a major source of income and retirees are encourage to retire, if they want the address where aliens are staying, then it's not only hotels and such that should be made aware of the law. The whole community at large should be notified it is a requirement of every citizen to report an alien residing at a private residence, whether rented or owned.

Unfortunately as it stands, it's the foreigner who often pays the fine, or is refused an extension, because a document that should be supplied by a Thai citizen has failed to comply with the law, and it's the Immigration and Government that have failed to notify it's citizens.

[Maestro]

You said it. But as long as the foreigners keep coming, nothing will be done to improve the mess.

[expatbrit]

I wonder if this "problem" is being exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

I first heard of the TM30 requirement last December(2014). I had my landlady complete the form and supply copies of her ID and TB.

When my extension was renewed in Feb. of this year I presented the TM30 which was accepted without comment or any suggestion of a fine being due.

I now have a "receipt" for the TM30 stapled in my passport.

The immigration officer also informed me there was no need for any further notification unless I moved house.

We shall see what happens in Feb ! ( I will have a completed TM30 but will not offer it unless asked)

Note !

I have been away from home both within and outside Thailand on a number of occasions .....................

[mxyzptlk]

Just to clarify I've never submitted a TM 30 form in 18 years here ( my bad) so when I do my marriage extension at Khon Kaen in a couple of weeks should I take a completed one with extra copies of my wife's ID and tabien ban, hand it in if they ask for it and suck it up and pay a fine?

Cheers.

Your situation is similar to mine except I have only been here since 2009. My missus has never completed a TM30 and I've never completed a TM28.

I've left and re-entered the kingdom a few times and have stayed in hotels outside my home province dozens of times. I've just applied for a one year extension of my permission to stay based on retirement last week and although my passport was scrutinized by 3 immigration officers, no one mentioned anything about TM28 / TM30. I had a completed TM30 + passport copy + wife's ID + Tabbien Baan copies ready just in case but it was never asked for. Different story for a mate of mine who applied for his first one year extension about six weeks ago at the same office....his G/F was fined 800 baht because she hadn't filled out a TM30. You can't play it on your fiddle.....

Edited December 7, 2015 by mxyzptlk

[KhaoNiaw]

I wonder if this "problem" is being exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

I first heard of the TM30 requirement last December(2014). I had my landlady complete the form and supply copies of her ID and TB.

When my extension was renewed in Feb. of this year I presented the TM30 which was accepted without comment or any suggestion of a fine being due.

I now have a "receipt" for the TM30 stapled in my passport.

The immigration officer also informed me there was no need for any further notification unless I moved house.

We shall see what happens in Feb ! ( I will have a completed TM30 but will not offer it unless asked)

Note !

I have been away from home both within and outside Thailand on a number of occasions .....................

That's similar to my experience. I was asked to fill in a TM30 at Chaeng Wattana when I went to get a re-entry permit in July 2014. I rent a condo but wasn't asked to supply my landlord's ID at all, they just wanted to get the form done. This was all done by the officer at the re-entry desk, who stapled the slip into my passport and told me not to remove it. It's still there and I've made a trip abroad (which the re-entry permit was for) and a few domestic trips where I presume the hotel will have submitted a TM30. Also in that time I've done two annual extensions without any problem and no mention of the fact that I haven't submitted any further TM30s. So either the system doesn't connect the steps between TM30 forms and individuals or so far they aren't bothered about seeing whether or not I've filed a TM30 when I've returned home after a trip.

I'm planning to move to a new place after the New Year so hopefully with a TM28 and a TM30 slip for the new address stapled into the passport all will be good. They could of course enforce the regulations more strictly but experience so far suggests that if they can see a TM30 slip they're satisfied.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KhaoNiaw

[Liquorice]

The problem and confusion has been created because existing laws were not enforced by Immigration in the past.

Now they are being more vigilant and checking for address reports, but the consistency varies from office to office.

They really do make a rod for their own back and make life difficult for the foreigners.

I've read 'my wife was asked to sign something at Immigration'.

So I conclude that in many cases of married foreigners, a TM30 has been filed without their knowledge.

Should a TM30 be filed

1. Only once while you remain at the same address.

2. Again if you leave the Country, then return to take up the same residence.

3. At every annual extension application.

I don't have the answer, only your own Immigration office can advise you on their interpretation and application of the law.

It really doesn't matter what another office is doing, I only have to deal with the one I'm assigned to.

Provided I follow their rules, I should stay clear of fines or problems.

We can discuss the differences of each offices requirements and our own interpretation, but it isn't going to change the system.

It needs someone in authority to take charge, control and be responsible and consistent for implementing the Immigration laws before this confusion ends.

The million dollar question is..........name one such Thai official capable of doing that?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Faz

[Asiantravel]

I wonder if this "problem" is being exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

I first heard of the TM30 requirement last December(2014). I had my landlady complete the form and supply copies of her ID and TB.

When my extension was renewed in Feb. of this year I presented the TM30 which was accepted without comment or any suggestion of a fine being due.

I now have a "receipt" for the TM30 stapled in my passport.

The immigration officer also informed me there was no need for any further notification unless I moved house.

We shall see what happens in Feb ! ( I will have a completed TM30 but will not offer it unless asked)

Note !

I have been away from home both within and outside Thailand on a number of occasions .....................

That's similar to my experience. I was asked to fill in a TM30 at Chaeng Wattana when I went to get a re-entry permit in July 2014. I rent a condo but wasn't asked to supply my landlord's ID at all, they just wanted to get the form done. This was all done by the officer at the re-entry desk, who stapled the slip into my passport and told me not to remove it. It's still there and I've made a trip abroad (which the re-entry permit was for) and a few domestic trips where I presume the hotel will have submitted a TM30. Also in that time I've done two annual extensions without any problem and no mention of the fact that I haven't submitted any further TM30s. So either the system doesn't connect the steps between TM30 forms and individuals or so far they aren't bothered about seeing whether or not I've filed a TM30 when I've returned home after a trip.

I'm planning to move to a new place after the New Year so hopefully with a TM28 and a TM30 slip for the new address stapled into the passport all will be good. They could of course enforce the regulations more strictly but experience so far suggests that if they can see a TM30 slip they're satisfied.

"So either the system doesn't connect the steps between TM30 forms and individuals or so far they aren't bothered about seeing whether or not I've filed a TM30 when I've returned home after a trip. "

I keep questioning isn't it more a case that they would need a huge army of people(who are working efficiently and constantly) to input information in order to be able to provide a meaningful database of where the thousands of foreigners are located at any one time.I can't see that they would have those kind of resources.

[OJAS]

I note that the list of foreigners which a housemaster is required to provide in completing the TM30 form includes a column headed "Expire date of stay" (or "ครบกําหนดอนุญาต" in the Thai language).

This begs the question as to which date those of us who are required to provide a completed TM30 as part of an extension of stay application should be entered here. Our present expiry date? Or the extended date assuming a successful application?

If the former, then it seems to me that the TM30 will be out of date immediately the extension is granted - meaning that, in theory at any rate, a further TM30 will need to be submitted within 24 hours with our extended expiry date!

A hotel would enter the checking out date.

A rented or owned private residence, you could stay indefinitely, so leave it blank.

I rent and completed my own TM30 in the landladies absence. That's what Immigration told me.

It doesn't mean when does your permission to stay end. It means when you plan to leave the residence (if known).

Thanks for the clarification, Faz. Looks like a case of me opting for the wrong meaning of an ambiguous translation from Thai into English!

Since my wife is the housemaster of the house in which we live together, she can safely leave the "Expire date of stay" column blank in my case, then (unless, of course, she has already made specific plans to kick me out at some future date which she hasn't yet told me about!).

By the same token, would I be correct in assuming that she should complete the "Date Of Arrival" column ("วันเดินทางเขา" in the Thai language) with the date when I first arrived in LOS under my original OA visa back in 2008 to take up residence in our humble abode (rather than with my latest date of return to LOS from a trip to foreign parts earlier this year)?

[Liquorice]

I note that the list of foreigners which a housemaster is required to provide in completing the TM30 form includes a column headed "Expire date of stay" (or "ครบกําหนดอนุญาต" in the Thai language).

This begs the question as to which date those of us who are required to provide a completed TM30 as part of an extension of stay application should be entered here. Our present expiry date? Or the extended date assuming a successful application?

If the former, then it seems to me that the TM30 will be out of date immediately the extension is granted - meaning that, in theory at any rate, a further TM30 will need to be submitted within 24 hours with our extended expiry date!

A hotel would enter the checking out date.

A rented or owned private residence, you could stay indefinitely, so leave it blank.

I rent and completed my own TM30 in the landladies absence. That's what Immigration told me.

It doesn't mean when does your permission to stay end. It means when you plan to leave the residence (if known).

Thanks for the clarification, Faz. Looks like a case of me opting for the wrong meaning of an ambiguous translation from Thai into English!

Since my wife is the housemaster of the house in which we live together, she can safely leave the "Expire date of stay" column blank in my case, then (unless, of course, she has already made specific plans to kick me out at some future date which she hasn't yet told me about!).

By the same token, would I be correct in assuming that she should complete the "Date Of Arrival" column ("วันเดินทางเขา" in the Thai language) with the date when I first arrived in LOS under my original OA visa back in 2008 to take up residence in our humble abode (rather than with my latest date of return to LOS from a trip to foreign parts earlier this year)?

Personally OJAS, I'd put the date of the day before you go to Immigration, to avoid any penalty for late filing.

(Your supposed to report within 24 hours)

They never asked me any questions about the date and if they do say you reported it to the local Police on the date you last re-entered Thailand, but the Police had no idea what you were talking about. (Which is normal)

Their usually just happy to get the form and put it in your file.

If all else fails, act stupid and be apologetic.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified. In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1 is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division

[lj cm]

My wife got hit with the maximum fine (1,600 Baht) today, when making the TM30 report (for the first time) here in Chiang Mai.

They had on record my last stay in a Hotel 2 months ago and that was correct. It was actually the only "real" Hotel, I stayed in, on my last Isan trip.

I should have followed my original plan: Stay one night at a Hotel here in CM; go party and the day after send the wife to do the TM30.

PS! They told my wife, she only has to make a new TM30, if I go abroad (and come back)!

Edited July 13, 2016 by lj cm

[cusanus]

I've been here almost 12 years and not sure if a TM 30 was ever submitted, but that's the owner's responsibility, not the farang. Now, MAYBE it's not an issue if you have a driver's license, because for that you have to submit a residence verification, not sure what that form is now. Anyway, as long as your address never changes, there's surely no cause to think about it. As for the 90 day report, that's NOT a requirement. By the way, you can do the 90 day report by registered mail, which is very easy and reliable, just make sure you follow the directions. DO check out Immigration's own instructions, though a tad murky: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days   

This guy maybe explains it better: http://donslifeinthailand.com/Immigration_90_Day_Report.html

For retirement visa, this Don guy seems to know his stuff: http://donslifeinthailand.com/VISA-Information-Thailand.html

Hope this helps someone. 

 

 

[Maestro]

10 hours ago, cusanus said:

I've been here almost 12 years and not sure if a TM 30 was ever submitted, but that's the owner's responsibility, not the farang.

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act says who is responsible for reporting the arrival of a foreigner at a residence, ie for submiting the TM.30 form, and your are right, it does not say that it is the responsibility of the "farang". This is what it says:

 

Quote

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

"House Master" is defined in Section 4 of the Immigration Act. "Owner" and possessor are not defined separately, but reference to them is made in the definition of "house-master":
 

Quote

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Therefore, from the above legal point of view,

• if the owner retains possession of the residence, the owner is the house-master
• if the owner rents the residence out to a tenant, then the tenant is the possessor and thus the house-master
• if any other person is the possessor of the residence in any other capacity, then this other person is the house-master

From members' posts we know that some immigration offices accept the TM.30 form from an owner even when he has rented out the residence and therefore no longer is the possessor, and some offices even insist that in such situation the owner must submit the TM.30. Some offices fine the tenant, ie the possessor and therefore the house-master, for the non-submission of the TM.30 when no other person presenting himself or herself as the owner or the possessor and thus the house-master has already submitted it.

 

Section 38 appears to give immigration officers a choice of whom to fine in the case of a residence rented by a foreigner, ie fine either the owner or the tenant, and when the foreigner is already at the immigration office on other business it is probably easier to fine the tenant. The availability of this choice is also indicated by the English text "HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR POSSESSOR OR RESIDENCE" below the line for the signature of the person submitting the form. Incidentally, the Thai text for this only mentions "house-master" (เจา้บา้น), ie "person making notification in the capacity of house-master", which in the context of this form can only mean house-master as defined in Section 4 of the Immigration Act.

[brewsterbudgen]

Any reports of TM30 forms being required for Extensions or 90-day reports at Chaengwattana?

Edited October 9, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Any reports of TM30 forms being required for Extensions or 90-day reports at Chaengwattana?

No

Very few reports of them ever asking for one for anything.

[siam2007]

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act says who is responsible for reporting the arrival of a foreigner at a residence, ie for submiting the TM.30 form, and your are right, it does not say that it is the responsibility of the "farang". This is what it says:

 

 

"House Master" is defined in Section 4 of the Immigration Act. "Owner" and possessor are not defined separately, but reference to them is made in the definition of "house-master":
 

 

Therefore, from the above legal point of view,

• if the owner retains possession of the residence, the owner is the house-master
• if the owner rents the residence out to a tenant, then the tenant is the possessor and thus the house-master
• if any other person is the possessor of the residence in any other capacity, then this other person is the house-master

 

 

 

interesting

 

But is this an official interpretation of the rules or rather your own findings?

The complete lack of clear directions from official sides is oven more disturbing than the actual rules themselves.

Thus, hundred different rules exist at hundred IO's

[Pearlgirl]

We were just at our visa assist company and were informed that the TM30 is absolutely needed now.  Immigration are saying you may have difficulty in renewing your visa without the receipt of this form.  The leasor is responsible for applying for it.  You as the leasee can be fined by the police, if stopped, for not having it as well.

[NancyL]

42 minutes ago, Pearlgirl said:

We were just at our visa assist company and were informed that the TM30 is absolutely needed now.  Immigration are saying you may have difficulty in renewing your visa without the receipt of this form.  The leasor is responsible for applying for it.  You as the leasee can be fined by the police, if stopped, for not having it as well.

What province are you in?

[raro]

just stumbled over this thread....if the farang has a yellow housebook...still need a TM30?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, raro said:

just stumbled over this thread....if the farang has a yellow housebook...still need a TM30?

Yes

A yellow house book does not waive the requirement.

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, Pearlgirl said:

We were just at our visa assist company and were informed that the TM30 is absolutely needed now.  Immigration are saying you may have difficulty in renewing your visa without the receipt of this form.  The leasor is responsible for applying for it.  You as the leasee can be fined by the police, if stopped, for not having it as well.

 

"The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence" is responsible for submitting the form TM.30. See this post:

 

 

[Maestro]

On 09/10/2016 at 7:52 AM, siam2007 said:

But is this an official interpretation of the rules or rather your own findings?

 

There is no official interpretation of the law, nor of the rules issued on the basis of the law. For every case going to court, the judge makes a decision based on his own findings after hearing the presentations of the prosecutoion and the defense.

[cusanus]

Hopefully, I can clear this up for everyone. I've tried to get the "owner" to do a TM30 for me for many years, but everybody used to ignore this law. NOT NO MORE. It's no surprise that suddenly it is required, and if you do NOT have one by visa time, you must get one ASAP - and the fine is 1600 baht. Not sure who owes it being it's the owner's responsibility, but you WILL pay it or it's your tail that will be burned. My wife (owner) and I went to Immigration last week with her insisting I was "STUPID" every kilo of the way, nothing unusual about that. Then we get there and I am RIGHT. Also not unusual. Anyway, you can download the files needed from this site which explains it so well, check on down. I expect you may need a copy of the owner's ID as well, at least we did.

<link to commercial website removed>

Of course, the sweet thing is that 1600 baht times the number of foreign residents in Thailand will go a long ways to paying for that submarine! :)  You all have a great day, I know I will...

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by ubonjoe
link to real estate agent site home page removed No TM30 info seen

[tlock]

Jomtien wouldn't let me submit the TM-30 on behalf of the owner, they insisted he come to Jomtien and submit it himself.  I didn't have it in me to ask him to go to Jomtien on my behalf, it's a big hotel chain, so I left the country to get a new visa rather than an extension.  Hopefully someone else clears it up with him so that next time I try for an extension he's familiar with the process.  

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, tlock said:

Jomtien wouldn't let me submit the TM-30 on behalf of the owner, they insisted he come to Jomtien and submit it himself.  I didn't have it in me to ask him to go to Jomtien on my behalf, it's a big hotel chain, so I left the country to get a new visa rather than an extension.  Hopefully someone else clears it up with him so that next time I try for an extension he's familiar with the process.  

 

If you've just returned from foreign parts with a new visa he might now need to submit a TM30 for you ASAP in any event.