DLock

Easy mistake.

Props for doing the right thing and returning the money.

Why yes, you most certainly can.

Chatuchak pet market is often considered Bangkok's premier petting zoo for an exciting day out for the entire family.

Please be aware that you will need to obtain a tetanus shot, rabies shot, flea and tick dusting and bring some antibacterial wipes and anti venom if you plan to play with the King Cobras.

Tell us how it went.

"So far, 52 buyers have filed complaints about being scammed out of money, and police estimate a loss of up to Bt7 million and believe there might be more victims."

Given that the Furbies go for as much as 6,000baht each, and there is a loss of 7million baht, I think the police may have stumbled onto something.

Either that or she sold those 52 Furbies for 134,615 each.

Your logic is flawed on a number of levels.

To start with , i was not talking about having less customers.

Please go back and read again what i wrote, they have less sheets to wash, which means less beds being used, which means hotels are empty, it does not mean hotels have changed laundry and it does not mean they do a bad job.

And NO laundry numbers are not there to replace "official" numbers, however is a very good indication if the "official" numbers are correct. Just as hotel occupancy rates are better indications to what is really happening on the ground, instead of some unknown count taking place in an unknown location with an unknown method

Less sheets to wash could easily be interpreted as fewer customers, hence my logic is not flawed. Your detailed analysis did not have any footnotes on methods and statistical variance...and when you say number of levels, what do you mean?

If your contention is that your laundry has exactly the same amount of customers, but those customers has fewer sheets, then I agree, your statistics are much more reliable that the official TAT numbers and you should publish them monthly so that the tourist industry can plan around them.

I stand corrected.

You could always admit to being incorrect, but that would be too much of a manly thing to do

Again for the 3rd time, since the first 2 times you had problems with understanding, the laundry(being one example) has the same amount of hotels, but less laundry from each one, which means hotels have less customer, which means hotels are empty., but carry on regardless with whatever makes you feel like a real man

I did not realize the level of detail contained in your "Laundry's as a guide to Tourism in Pattaya - A detailed analysis - by Lemoncakes, January 2013 edition", as you only provided an excerpt of limited information. Hence, my mistake.

Your new information adds credibility and substance to your post.

I look forward to your next report on "Beer consumption as a guide to Thailand's GDP".

Carry on.

As you like, DLock, but must you quote the whole thread? Thanks for your attention.

Yes, it was too hard to delete all the previous quote structure.

But thanks for letting me know it bothers you.

I shall try harder in the future.

Your logic is flawed on a number of levels.

To start with , i was not talking about having less customers.

Please go back and read again what i wrote, they have less sheets to wash, which means less beds being used, which means hotels are empty, it does not mean hotels have changed laundry and it does not mean they do a bad job.

And NO laundry numbers are not there to replace "official" numbers, however is a very good indication if the "official" numbers are correct. Just as hotel occupancy rates are better indications to what is really happening on the ground, instead of some unknown count taking place in an unknown location with an unknown method

Less sheets to wash could easily be interpreted as fewer customers, hence my logic is not flawed. Your detailed analysis did not have any footnotes on methods and statistical variance...and when you say number of levels, what do you mean?

If your contention is that your laundry has exactly the same amount of customers, but those customers has fewer sheets, then I agree, your statistics are much more reliable that the official TAT numbers and you should publish them monthly so that the tourist industry can plan around them.

I stand corrected.

Maybe there is an element of truth here. Let's say Tat number is a correct count of arrival cards. Hotels have low occupancy rates.

That indicates simply that duration of stay is shorter (average).

Also I see fewer western tourists in Bangkok, but more Asians.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Stefan this is incorrect- if you have read the thread you will see that Lemoncake has had sight of the audited accounts of his local laundry, which, given they are down on last year, provides unequivocal proof that the numbers are incorrect.

i like how you so smartly determined what the local laundry says

So let me elaborate it for you to make it even more clear.

It is not a local laundry but a laundry shop servicing hotels, as i own one.

They wash the dirty sheets and pick up and drop off daily, so irrespective of you like to think, they know how many dirty beds were changed on daily basis.

When they say business is slow, it actually means less dirty sheets, which in turn means empty rooms.

Hope it satisfies your credence

Let's consider the potential flaws in that logic.

1. More laundry's have opened up in that area and diluting the customer base

2. The laundry in question is crappy and does a poor job so some Hotels are changing laundry's

3. The laundry in question is more expensive than other laundry and customers have left

4. Some of the larger Hotels have decided to in-house laundry facilities

I'm not saying your laundry numbers should not replace the TAT numbers as a statistical analysis of tourist numbers...but they may struggle.

<snip..too many quotes>

most will say 'we met in a restaurant' which is sort of 'code' for bar - who cares if they are happy 'live and let live' but personally I don't really get it (that they could be with someone who has slept with tons of guys for cash - not saying it's wrong but... I wouldn't marry one or make a girlfriend of one)

Is the problem "for cash" or "slept with tons of guys" for it? If the former, they should be punished for making money? if the latter, how is this different form non-prostitutes that slept around (and lets face it there are going to be lots of those - both men and women).

My point being, that most men have no idea of the sexual history of the women they meet - especially later in life. It's not exactly like they carry around a score board (other then in their heads I guess). Past performance is no indication of future performance and all that. Indeed, virgins are more likely to wander (for experimentation/comparison) than a women that has experience these days IMO (there are mitigators to this of course - such as cultural, religious or even contractual obsticles to such "wanderings").

People live a long time - we change over our lifetimes as our experience and ecconomics change and our blood chemistry too (hormones et al) - surely marriage is about finding the right partner, that being one that closely matches you needs, support requirements (not just fiscal) and future potential - their past could be an issue, but usually only if you let it. Damage and mental scaring is no more inherent to prostitution (in this country at least) than other historical events that could happen to impressionable youngersters - ideed, ex- prostitutes may well be better positioned (through survival of the fittest and experience) to weather such issues, where "daddy's little girl" might not be.

I know many mixed couples both here and at home in the UK. Some I know come form the bar, some form "regular" jobs, some and some straight from university. A few (very few if truth be told) turned out to be gold diggers (although thgis was obvious, all bar one case I can think of, to anyone with eyes well before marriage came about) - most of which were from the bar sect. However, unless you knew which was which, generally you could not tell the difference - I mean with regards to their relationships and the family that came from it rather than personal/education/etc (even that only usually identified the garduates and middle calss off-spring, not the BGs vs non-BGs).

It may also be interesting to note other threads and news items here that talk about the amount of prostituting even well-to-do university students are invovled in to cover the costs of living/full time education and those little extras (like IPhones etc). Even those hi-so like uni grads may well have "slept with tons of guys for cash"

I guess you can rationalize anything if you really want to.

Yes - why should we not be rational then?

I guess your inference (veiled that it is) is that I am trying to rationise my own relationship (?). This is not true, but I am not exactly bothered by that frame of thought, it is somewhat expected. Whenever someone here opposes a general view (however unsupportable or irrational that may be) - it must of course be because (s)he is in denial.

I am interested - are you with 'binjalin' that girls that got caught up prostitution (were a bar girl) deserve no right to shirk off that stigma and make a better life for themselves (or maybe only if it does not involve marriage and family) - perhaps that they should be branded or just stoned to death - then we could avoid them like lepers? After all what an awful sin they have committed - made money out of sleeping around - much worse than doing it for free (or a night out at a club / Italian meal for two / etc).

Bigotry exists in many forms people - lets not fall for it just because "society" tells us it bad and only bad people exist therein.

//Edit: Speelink

I have nothing against bar girls. Nor do I have against the men that enjoy their company or marry them.

It's just that I have no desire to knowingly consider a relationship with such a girl. I don't think there is anything wrong with admitting that I would mentally struggle with knowing my Partner had slept with 3,000 guys. Regardless that she may make a great wife, I just believe that there are many more options out there than knowingly selecting a girl from a bar.

Suggesting bigotry or hypocrisy for my preference for non-working girls is weak and flawed.

But I can never rationalize in my mind that it's ok to have a bargirl as a wife.

I don't have the time to research, but what are the TAT numbers exactly?

Are they just people who arrive into Thailand? If so I make 25 - 40 International flights a year. I would be 25 of those numbers, as would visa runners who make multiple visa runs that would inflate the numbers artificially. I also think Thailand has at least 1 hub correct - they are an airline hub that is easier to transit to Burma or Laos or Cambodia from Europe of the US, so assuming arrival in to Thailand on arrival and back again to depart - that's artificial.

Do they count domestic flights at all? I don't know.

So maybe, the arrivals numbers is confused with multiple counts, transit passengers and fewer people arriving in tourist destinations where resorts and bars are growing at a faster rate than tourist arrivals and diluting the numbers per establishment.

Regardless, my point is really that personal observations of people in Pattaya or Phuket as a barometer of tourist numbers or somehow a major datapoint to suggest TAT are making stuff up is weak.

Why would TAT fudge the numbers?

Wouldn't they have to have fudged them for the last 20 years to perpetuate the "story"?

I fly 4 times a week or more. Every flight is full.

Here's a clue. Not every tourist comes through Pattaya or happens to use that same random laundry...

<snip..too many quotes>

most will say 'we met in a restaurant' which is sort of 'code' for bar - who cares if they are happy 'live and let live' but personally I don't really get it (that they could be with someone who has slept with tons of guys for cash - not saying it's wrong but... I wouldn't marry one or make a girlfriend of one)

Is the problem "for cash" or "slept with tons of guys" for it? If the former, they should be punished for making money? if the latter, how is this different form non-prostitutes that slept around (and lets face it there are going to be lots of those - both men and women).

My point being, that most men have no idea of the sexual history of the women they meet - especially later in life. It's not exactly like they carry around a score board (other then in their heads I guess). Past performance is no indication of future performance and all that. Indeed, virgins are more likely to wander (for experimentation/comparison) than a women that has experience these days IMO (there are mitigators to this of course - such as cultural, religious or even contractual obsticles to such "wanderings").

People live a long time - we change over our lifetimes as our experience and ecconomics change and our blood chemistry too (hormones et al) - surely marriage is about finding the right partner, that being one that closely matches you needs, support requirements (not just fiscal) and future potential - their past could be an issue, but usually only if you let it. Damage and mental scaring is no more inherent to prostitution (in this country at least) than other historical events that could happen to impressionable youngersters - ideed, ex- prostitutes may well be better positioned (through survival of the fittest and experience) to weather such issues, where "daddy's little girl" might not be.

I know many mixed couples both here and at home in the UK. Some I know come form the bar, some form "regular" jobs, some and some straight from university. A few (very few if truth be told) turned out to be gold diggers (although thgis was obvious, all bar one case I can think of, to anyone with eyes well before marriage came about) - most of which were from the bar sect. However, unless you knew which was which, generally you could not tell the difference - I mean with regards to their relationships and the family that came from it rather than personal/education/etc (even that only usually identified the garduates and middle calss off-spring, not the BGs vs non-BGs).

It may also be interesting to note other threads and news items here that talk about the amount of prostituting even well-to-do university students are invovled in to cover the costs of living/full time education and those little extras (like IPhones etc). Even those hi-so like uni grads may well have "slept with tons of guys for cash"

I guess you can rationalize anything if you really want to.

I could care less about the drinking . But all these smokers ghettos in front of all the supermarkets is disgusting

Like what is with these people who go to supermarkets to sit around in front smoking ??

I agree smoking is a disgusting addiction. But I try to cut them some slack. They are just too weak to quit. more than 90% say they want to stop, and no longer enjoy it.

disgusting addiction in whose opinion? smoking has been around for centuries.

Too weak you say?, have you smoked and tried to quit? while it does require some mental power it is a total change of life style, because your "best friend" is not longer there when you have a coffee or drink or food etc.

Why is it that for centuries smoking was not a problem and now the smoking nazi is making a big fuss? including your post

The quiting business has become a bigger business than smoking business. All the nicabates, nicarettes , gums, sprays, etc etc etc and all of it is very expansive.

Perhaps some are making just as much money in advocating how "disgusting" it is, if not more money.

You can try to argue with medical point of view of all the death related to smoking, but i can just as easily counter that with deaths related to alcohol, pollution, just cancer, stress etc etc etc

Who took the jam out of your donut?

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

You have your OWN fishing lake ???

Don't all landed gentry over here have one

Yes we do.

Awesome fish VF...and nice looking lake and gardens.

I used to follow your old lake thread, when you were creating it. It has turned out really nice.

Thanks Garry. I am pretty happy the way it turned out. I achieved everything I wanted and more. Just having a private lake in a natural setting is relaxing in itself.

That was a good thread and I proved that an Idiot (me) without a clue can create a lake. If you have the space, I highly recommend it.

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

Did you use a very light rod, size 22 hook and 2lb breaking strain line.....if so, they look OK.

The trouble with the gear that one can rent here, is more suitable for clubbing them to death rather than catching them.

I use a light rod and line, but I never really paid much attention to the breaking strain...but I think its 3lb from memory.

The only thing I know for sure is that the hooks are barbless...I hate hurting the fish when I have to remove a hook, and some of the catfish get bigger and can swallow a hook pretty deep.

I don't eat the fish, but my staff did.

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

Well, I also live on Samoeng Road up the hill a ways and pay my maid 7,000 per month and have had her for 4 years now. I do let her and her husband and kid stay on property as well as buy all the rice and water. I personally don't think that's being cheap and they seem very happy to have a nice place to live and not have to work all that hard. I think it's all in how you treat them and if they want an extra day off here and there for what ever reasons, I always let them go. But on the other hand, if they do something totally off the wall then I put my foot down and they get the message. So as the end of the day, it pays to treat staff no differently then you would your own family, to a certain extent. Respect goes along way and it make no difference what social class your working with, people are people and need to be treated as such.

I would say my wife did treat them like family. I'm not there often enough to have much of an impact. I'm not sure that helped the situation or impeded it.

They often took extra days for rice harvest, Buddha days, sick days and a few other reasons.

Interesting to note that the Maid called up and asked to come back without the husband. My instinct tells me that this is not ideal, but I will considerate it.

Incidentally, my staff were on 7,500 per month each last year, and I agree, based on local input that was a fair salary.

I think you can expect a better quality maid if you pay more. Assuming you can afford it, just offer 15k with the same other benefits you mentioned. Then you will have loads of people interested in the job. If someone isn't doing what you'd hoped for just cycle a new person in really fast - no need to hesitate, you can seriously try a new person weekly until you find one that fits the bill. With that money offer you will get more candidates and better candidates.

I also think what you want from a maid could easily be accomplished without a live in. Just hire someone to come clean the place for a few hours every day and that should accomplish everything you want, it will likely be cheaper than what I am writing above and it will be a more favorable situation to the lady. What exactly does having a live in accomplish?

I don't disagree.

A live-in is there for 2 reasons - so someone is on the property at all times for security and because we travel frequently.

But do they really have to be live-in? No. In fact, the work really is not difficult and a professional maid could do the work in 3 or 4 hours....which may be part of the problem.

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

I did the Google work for you.

http://www.justbelowthesurface.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74:do-s

You're welcome.

None of them work - all myths or website hoax's. Google will help you.

Focus on removing food that snakes eat, like frogs or mice, removing places for snakes to hide under and keep grass low.

Won't keep them all away 100%, but it will help.

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

its my mistake on my part as i misinterpreted the pay as you mentioned 300baht a day 6 days a week. thanks for going easy on me a newbie in contrast to your extensive experiences here but its only a simple question if it is fair for such a wages so i do know not how you manage to bring surviving with 9000 baht and western logic into my straight question. unless you are feeling something else subconsciously

Dozens of threads discussing the Thai salary of 9,000baht per month.

Go play in those threads.

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

My GF cleans daily and weekly for many people in CM. She is very proud of what she does, and if she encounters an autocratic Thai wife, she cant run fast enough away. For some people she meets, nothing is good enough, and many Thai people look down on her because she is Burmese and they think they can just order her around and disrespect her. She does a great job, and she doesnt need to be micromanaged, as some women will try to do. Just let her do her thing, and most are happy with the results. She has many repeat customers and she is as honest as the day is long.

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

You advice is good, but for all the wrong reasons.

My wife buys them food, sometimes eats with them and overlooks lateness and poor jobs. I guess it's a Thai thing.

She is definitely part of the problem. The staff become too familiar and their expectations and attitude change. They want more holidays, start leaving earlier and earlier on Saturday's and turning up later on Monday mornings.

Seriously, it is extraordinary how people do scoff at others who have religion. But what do these scoffers believe in?

sometimes have no problem to believe in dark forces, satanism, astrology, ghosts, people possessed by a devil..so much manner of BS.. but yet still refuse to accept any possibility that there could be the opposing white or pure force

in life is the best lesson..that everything has its opposite, can you just believe on one side?

...I'm a little old for imaginary friends.