DLock

I don't have the time to research, but what are the TAT numbers exactly?

Are they just people who arrive into Thailand? If so I make 25 - 40 International flights a year. I would be 25 of those numbers, as would visa runners who make multiple visa runs that would inflate the numbers artificially. I also think Thailand has at least 1 hub correct - they are an airline hub that is easier to transit to Burma or Laos or Cambodia from Europe of the US, so assuming arrival in to Thailand on arrival and back again to depart - that's artificial.

Do they count domestic flights at all? I don't know.

So maybe, the arrivals numbers is confused with multiple counts, transit passengers and fewer people arriving in tourist destinations where resorts and bars are growing at a faster rate than tourist arrivals and diluting the numbers per establishment.

Regardless, my point is really that personal observations of people in Pattaya or Phuket as a barometer of tourist numbers or somehow a major datapoint to suggest TAT are making stuff up is weak.

Why would TAT fudge the numbers?

Wouldn't they have to have fudged them for the last 20 years to perpetuate the "story"?

I fly 4 times a week or more. Every flight is full.

Here's a clue. Not every tourist comes through Pattaya or happens to use that same random laundry...

<snip..too many quotes>

most will say 'we met in a restaurant' which is sort of 'code' for bar - who cares if they are happy 'live and let live' but personally I don't really get it (that they could be with someone who has slept with tons of guys for cash - not saying it's wrong but... I wouldn't marry one or make a girlfriend of one)

Is the problem "for cash" or "slept with tons of guys" for it? If the former, they should be punished for making money? if the latter, how is this different form non-prostitutes that slept around (and lets face it there are going to be lots of those - both men and women).

My point being, that most men have no idea of the sexual history of the women they meet - especially later in life. It's not exactly like they carry around a score board (other then in their heads I guess). Past performance is no indication of future performance and all that. Indeed, virgins are more likely to wander (for experimentation/comparison) than a women that has experience these days IMO (there are mitigators to this of course - such as cultural, religious or even contractual obsticles to such "wanderings").

People live a long time - we change over our lifetimes as our experience and ecconomics change and our blood chemistry too (hormones et al) - surely marriage is about finding the right partner, that being one that closely matches you needs, support requirements (not just fiscal) and future potential - their past could be an issue, but usually only if you let it. Damage and mental scaring is no more inherent to prostitution (in this country at least) than other historical events that could happen to impressionable youngersters - ideed, ex- prostitutes may well be better positioned (through survival of the fittest and experience) to weather such issues, where "daddy's little girl" might not be.

I know many mixed couples both here and at home in the UK. Some I know come form the bar, some form "regular" jobs, some and some straight from university. A few (very few if truth be told) turned out to be gold diggers (although thgis was obvious, all bar one case I can think of, to anyone with eyes well before marriage came about) - most of which were from the bar sect. However, unless you knew which was which, generally you could not tell the difference - I mean with regards to their relationships and the family that came from it rather than personal/education/etc (even that only usually identified the garduates and middle calss off-spring, not the BGs vs non-BGs).

It may also be interesting to note other threads and news items here that talk about the amount of prostituting even well-to-do university students are invovled in to cover the costs of living/full time education and those little extras (like IPhones etc). Even those hi-so like uni grads may well have "slept with tons of guys for cash"

I guess you can rationalize anything if you really want to.

I could care less about the drinking . But all these smokers ghettos in front of all the supermarkets is disgusting

Like what is with these people who go to supermarkets to sit around in front smoking ??

I agree smoking is a disgusting addiction. But I try to cut them some slack. They are just too weak to quit. more than 90% say they want to stop, and no longer enjoy it.

disgusting addiction in whose opinion? smoking has been around for centuries.

Too weak you say?, have you smoked and tried to quit? while it does require some mental power it is a total change of life style, because your "best friend" is not longer there when you have a coffee or drink or food etc.

Why is it that for centuries smoking was not a problem and now the smoking nazi is making a big fuss? including your post

The quiting business has become a bigger business than smoking business. All the nicabates, nicarettes , gums, sprays, etc etc etc and all of it is very expansive.

Perhaps some are making just as much money in advocating how "disgusting" it is, if not more money.

You can try to argue with medical point of view of all the death related to smoking, but i can just as easily counter that with deaths related to alcohol, pollution, just cancer, stress etc etc etc

Who took the jam out of your donut?

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

You have your OWN fishing lake ???

Don't all landed gentry over here have one

Yes we do.

Awesome fish VF...and nice looking lake and gardens.

I used to follow your old lake thread, when you were creating it. It has turned out really nice.

Thanks Garry. I am pretty happy the way it turned out. I achieved everything I wanted and more. Just having a private lake in a natural setting is relaxing in itself.

That was a good thread and I proved that an Idiot (me) without a clue can create a lake. If you have the space, I highly recommend it.

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

Did you use a very light rod, size 22 hook and 2lb breaking strain line.....if so, they look OK.

The trouble with the gear that one can rent here, is more suitable for clubbing them to death rather than catching them.

I use a light rod and line, but I never really paid much attention to the breaking strain...but I think its 3lb from memory.

The only thing I know for sure is that the hooks are barbless...I hate hurting the fish when I have to remove a hook, and some of the catfish get bigger and can swallow a hook pretty deep.

I don't eat the fish, but my staff did.

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

Well, I also live on Samoeng Road up the hill a ways and pay my maid 7,000 per month and have had her for 4 years now. I do let her and her husband and kid stay on property as well as buy all the rice and water. I personally don't think that's being cheap and they seem very happy to have a nice place to live and not have to work all that hard. I think it's all in how you treat them and if they want an extra day off here and there for what ever reasons, I always let them go. But on the other hand, if they do something totally off the wall then I put my foot down and they get the message. So as the end of the day, it pays to treat staff no differently then you would your own family, to a certain extent. Respect goes along way and it make no difference what social class your working with, people are people and need to be treated as such.

I would say my wife did treat them like family. I'm not there often enough to have much of an impact. I'm not sure that helped the situation or impeded it.

They often took extra days for rice harvest, Buddha days, sick days and a few other reasons.

Interesting to note that the Maid called up and asked to come back without the husband. My instinct tells me that this is not ideal, but I will considerate it.

Incidentally, my staff were on 7,500 per month each last year, and I agree, based on local input that was a fair salary.

I think you can expect a better quality maid if you pay more. Assuming you can afford it, just offer 15k with the same other benefits you mentioned. Then you will have loads of people interested in the job. If someone isn't doing what you'd hoped for just cycle a new person in really fast - no need to hesitate, you can seriously try a new person weekly until you find one that fits the bill. With that money offer you will get more candidates and better candidates.

I also think what you want from a maid could easily be accomplished without a live in. Just hire someone to come clean the place for a few hours every day and that should accomplish everything you want, it will likely be cheaper than what I am writing above and it will be a more favorable situation to the lady. What exactly does having a live in accomplish?

I don't disagree.

A live-in is there for 2 reasons - so someone is on the property at all times for security and because we travel frequently.

But do they really have to be live-in? No. In fact, the work really is not difficult and a professional maid could do the work in 3 or 4 hours....which may be part of the problem.

A few of the fish I caught recently in Chiang Mai in my lake. Not monsters by any stretch, but fishing is fishing...

I did the Google work for you.

http://www.justbelowthesurface.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74:do-s

You're welcome.

None of them work - all myths or website hoax's. Google will help you.

Focus on removing food that snakes eat, like frogs or mice, removing places for snakes to hide under and keep grass low.

Won't keep them all away 100%, but it will help.

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

its my mistake on my part as i misinterpreted the pay as you mentioned 300baht a day 6 days a week. thanks for going easy on me a newbie in contrast to your extensive experiences here but its only a simple question if it is fair for such a wages so i do know not how you manage to bring surviving with 9000 baht and western logic into my straight question. unless you are feeling something else subconsciously

Dozens of threads discussing the Thai salary of 9,000baht per month.

Go play in those threads.

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

My GF cleans daily and weekly for many people in CM. She is very proud of what she does, and if she encounters an autocratic Thai wife, she cant run fast enough away. For some people she meets, nothing is good enough, and many Thai people look down on her because she is Burmese and they think they can just order her around and disrespect her. She does a great job, and she doesnt need to be micromanaged, as some women will try to do. Just let her do her thing, and most are happy with the results. She has many repeat customers and she is as honest as the day is long.

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

You advice is good, but for all the wrong reasons.

My wife buys them food, sometimes eats with them and overlooks lateness and poor jobs. I guess it's a Thai thing.

She is definitely part of the problem. The staff become too familiar and their expectations and attitude change. They want more holidays, start leaving earlier and earlier on Saturday's and turning up later on Monday mornings.

Seriously, it is extraordinary how people do scoff at others who have religion. But what do these scoffers believe in?

sometimes have no problem to believe in dark forces, satanism, astrology, ghosts, people possessed by a devil..so much manner of BS.. but yet still refuse to accept any possibility that there could be the opposing white or pure force

in life is the best lesson..that everything has its opposite, can you just believe on one side?

...I'm a little old for imaginary friends.

...but great hair.

I can't believe you guys are actually debating some of the promises as if they may actually happen.

They are all lies. Empty promises for the masses created purely with intention to get their vote. None of them will happen....but what does that matter once he's elected?

He definitely stole the PTP playbook and has taken it to a whole new level.

This has been a well covered topic on various TV threads. I suggest you do some research.

Making money on the Internet is not difficult....once you have done it once.

Then everything you look at becomes another idea for an Internet business. You see ways to improve, cut out middle men, attract new customers or build new services. Thailand is absolutely full of opportunities. You do not need to be a website builder or even have SEO skills - they are in abundance here for very affordable rates. Finding good ones is a bit of trial and error, but they are out there.

Of course, it does come down to the right idea, product or service, but it is also about time - it will take a year or so of constant work and attention to rank well enough to get decent hits and turn your idea into money. Most people expect instant responses and page 1 Google rankings and it just doesn't work that way. Many businesses think putting up a website and they are done...again, a website is only 10% of the job. Your first web business will be a constant search for knowledge and refinement...but once you make it, you will see opportunity everywhere.

There are no shortcuts, no "tell all" websites and no one is going to tell you exactly what they do to make money.

...like everyone says...if it was easy everyone would do it.

Good luck. Perseverance is key.

Quite the same graffiti. What's the meaning of this meme?

This was on the Central Festival overpass where they are digging the hole.

the street artist responsible for this meme is named bon. he's from bangkok, and an actual artist who has been commissioned all over SE ASIA. you can find his work all over phuket - in nai harn, he painted the old concrete building near the lagoon with a fish, on thalang road in town, just near soi rommanee, he painted a bird, he's got a bunch of stuff scattered around kathu as well. if you are familiar with the bodega guest house in patong, he painted the entire second floor. i'm proud to say he's painted my kitchen chairs and my shoes; i've known him for nearly 3 years.

if you would be interested in seeing his work, not complaining about it, you can search him on facebook under mue bon.

I doubt this "street artist" resorts to poorly stenciled images...I'd say someone is imitating his work, because it sucks.

But a "street artist" painting shoes and kitchen chairs? I wonder if Banksy ever did that?

Looking at lack of helmets in isolation is simplifying the problem.

Yes, wearing proper helmets will definitely reduce deaths and injuries.

But the problem is so much more - unlicensed riders, unregistered bikes, unroadworthy bikes, children riding, drunk riding, speeding etc.

The Thai Government either don't care or don't know how to tackle the problem.

It's not that hard to impose serious fines and prison terms, impound bikes, teach school kids, etc....but I doubt this will ever happen. Not the Thai way.

Chiang Mai declares 18 districts disaster zones

The province has recorded its lowest temperatures in years during the past 5 days

Does the government have it all wrong then?

.

This is what it's all about -

"The province is requesting an additional budget worth 42 million baht to secure winter gear and relief packages."

That was precisely my inclination when reading so many on-the-ground reports contradicting it.

Must admit, that's exactly the thought I had. Pretty sad that we automatically think that way isn't it?

Which markets will purchase Thailand's 4-5 year old rice, if they can sell it at all? Are they seriously waiting to sell it for more than they gave the farmers? Other countries will just buy Vietnam's rice instead. They won't care where it came from as long as it's fresh. I see Thais chowing down on the old stock of rice while the new stuff will be sold overseas. What a $hitty mess.

That's very good point.

Who wants old rice when there's plenty of new rice around.

The only answer is to dump it & face the wrath of the WTO!

As far as I'm aware they don't print a "best before" date on each grain of rice.

Thus, the onus will be on the Thai Government to divulge the harvest dates of the rice they are selling at bargain prices.

You see where I'm going with this?

The age of the rice is irrelevant. We are dealing with crooked, greedy, lying people. They have sold their souls already. Selling bad rice is easy.

Wherever anybody goes in the world there's an economy already in place. The economy has pretty much nothing to do with the relatively minor numbers of foreign residents I would think....unless you are talking about tourist spending which is a different thing.

If this is true then 'the economy' dictates the general wage levels for different tasks. Same like it does in my home country I would think...

Service relationships exist in all economies, hospitality, domestic...even the professions are essentially service relationships. It seems indeed true that some people have a particularly personal, emotional, negative response to the notion of service.

I don't myself really. I worked in menial 'hospitality' for many years when I was younger. Always enjoyed it...never felt 'less than'....ever.

I have no real idea of what wage is 'right'. Just finding out. I do know when you give people too much and expect too little, you actually breed hostility. I also know that exploitation is never right or justified.

A fair day's work for a fair day's pay has been the maxim of the labour movement and I believe in it.

I was talking to a man in his 20's....unskilled but going to night school.

He told me he was getting 4,500 baht a month at the restaurant he just left for a 6 day week. He said that was too low for him.

He moved to a new job working late at night in an hotel and now gets 8,000 for a 6 day week.

I think I'll learn more by just talking to locals and just finding out hat they think.

For what it worth.. Mike...

Mike, I agree with you.

It's either a very simple problem, or a very complex one...I haven't decided yet.

But bottom line is that I will pay what I have to pay to get the service level I expect. I'm not trying to pay as little as possible as some people think. I'm aiming for a service level and will pay what I need to get that.

Problem is that I don't know what that number is and can't find the people that I need and the service and experience level is generally below what I expect.

I will figure this out.

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.