Krenjai

Interesting post and photo over at CSI, they are pointing out 3 Burmese who worked in AC bar one of whom left quickly after the murders to Kawthoung next to Ranong province. Another is an AC bar dj and the other allegedly the Headmans right hand man. The Burmese guy who left apparently saw Nomsod on the night of the murders

I do not claim the above to be fact (for our sad man) its pure speculation as only those on the Island will know whether this is true or not?

The guy next to C holding the glass looks like the same person that was mocking people by holding a hoe and putting it on Facebook .

Hopefully Scotland yard and the burmese lawyers have this info because it would be very doubtfull that the thai police followed up on this.

Correct, seems like the same guy..........BTW, is this also the same guy with the shark-tooth ring?

All in all you can see what kind of characters hang around the AC bar......just look at the FB pictures of AC bar itself!

Real nice fellows!

They can't take it to trial, it will highlight their incompetence a thousand fold,

Agreed, but they also can't afford to not take it to trial....remember the case was perfect!

Not taking this to trial means losing face as pointed out earlier.

Why don't you all wait for the trial.

what trial? there will be no trial

Why would anybody release these two suspects whose DNA matches to these horrific crimes knowing they will very likely do a runner to Myanmar?

The answer is INDEED very clear as posted earlier in this thread by somebody else, it is THE face-saver for the RTP.

There will be no court-case, no difficult questions to answer, nothing! The runner will even help them to claim the prefect case was perfect but the suspects ran!

I now also predict this is how it will end!!

Of course the real killers will never be caught! They also would like to see the B2 run! Same as the RTP, and the B2 for sure will also use the opportunity!

It will NEVER EVER be solved!

release = release on BAIL

Why would anybody release these two suspects whose DNA matches to these horrific crimes knowing they will very likely do a runner to Myanmar?

The answer is INDEED very clear as posted earlier in this thread by somebody else, it is THE face-saver for the RTP.

There will be no court-case, no difficult questions to answer, nothing! The runner will even help them to claim the prefect case was perfect but the suspects ran!

I now also predict this is how it will end!!

Of course the real killers will never be caught! They also would like to see the B2 run! Same as the RTP, and the B2 for sure will also use the opportunity!

It will NEVER EVER be solved!

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

How about this for a face saver...........in the Samui Times today it was reported that..

Quote:

"During the hearing the prosecutor said that he did not oppose the accused requesting bail. Lawyers for the accused have now requested the Myanmar embassy to consider attempting to post bail for the temporary release of the accused. If bail were approved as the two men are non Thai nationals it would perhaps be likely that bail would be set at around 1,000,000 per person".

OK The Face Saver.................

Some mysterious donor pays the 2 mil to get the B2 bail..................they skip bail.............do a runner back to Myanmar with a little help..........the RTP say that they must have been guilty..............Face saved....

Big Boss..........requests their extradition.........Face Saved

B2 Lost in Myanmar cannot be traced................never to be seen again.............

No B2........ no trial..............Prosecutor.........Face saved...............

Yes, that is a face saver! LOL!

The concept of LOSING FACE!

http://goasia.about.com/od/Customs-and-Traditions/a/Saving-Face.htm

• The police arrest a Westerner by mistake. Although proven innocent, they cannot release him immediately because doing so would cause the police chief to lose face by admitting that a mistake was made."

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

as for the people that think they know what is going on in this case , wake up to yourselves , your only information is coming from poorly translated media reports. none of us know a damn thing about this case, the guilt of the suspects nor the competency of the investigation team

Where have you been hiding?

RTP: "This action is a typical case of youthful recklessness"

Huh, hitting somebody with a hoe is RECKLESNESS??? HUH?

Things have become a bit quiet lately, nothing new to report I guess. Stalemate? Impossible to make a move without losing face? What now? Indite? Acquit? Where is the CCTV of the AC bar of the night? Helllooo? Anybody out there? Did we find out who was number 9 already? The person with the unmistakable walk, haircut & arm-swing? Hellloooo? What about the speedboat Lucky Duck? Where is it? Will the UK_autopsy report on David show his wounds were from the hoe but with a 99.99% certainty of a push-knife? Hellooo? How does the RTP avoid losing face? No wonder it has gone quiet. Silence before the Storm!

That's why keeping the topics up is important. BiB have decided there is nothing more to examine, and stated it, as well told there'd be no reports as the case is finalized. On the other hand now, they've been handed the case again and again to be completed, but if they cannot produce anything it will have to be either tried or aquitted, at discretion of the prosecutors, and if the latter, they'll just roll with the illegal entry (and possibly Labor laws as to working without a WP on top of that). And to your q about impossibility to make a move without losing face = 100% correct - the BiB can't back down on their statement that the case is complete - they can only push the papers back to prosecutors desk with tweaking the wording now. UK inquiry will be disclosed not earlier than in January, if my memory serves right. By that time the case will most definitely be over in way or the other, as it poses a risk of further loss of face, should it contradict with the case findings.

I am inclined to agree. However, they may still try to manufacture eye witnesses if a conviction is considered essential. Obviously, this could be risky if the witnesses withdraw their testimony citing bribery, threats and/or torture. It would need to be done carefully, but the right financial incentives (combined with threats) to the right people would likely work.

Too late now to come up with an eye-witness IMO, also too risky as this person will go under the microscope of Social Media and who knows what this will show!

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I purposefully have not looked at any photos of Hannah's injuries. It would sadden and anger me. It's David's wounds which will more likely provide clues toward possibly solving the crime. If I had top authority in this investigation, there would be some loud and harsh words spewed forth towards those who have been hired to investigate it. 'Heads rolling' would be too nice a characterization.

Be glad you have not seen them, simply because you cannot unseen them, it is too grave! The fact that the autopsy report wants us to believe there was one murder weapon (the hoe) is so outrageous, it is simply insane IMO. I mean think about it, no DNA of David on the hoe and David his wounds clearly show multiple stab wounds on his left side (face, head and shoulder) (yes stab wounds). It is just as insane as the bottle of wine the pancake vendor/translator mentioned as a weapon used on David. I guess the RTP preferred the one weapon theory, so that is the way it will be.

I agree with above post, but I think most of David's wounds were on his right side, not his left - indicating a left-handed attacker, if he was facing the attacker. David probably thought for a second it would be a fist-fight. It was dark, and then he got a very unpleasant surprise when the fists which were falling on him (maybe he was restrained by another man) ....carried a penetrating blade. I wish I could have been there to assist the two Brits. Among many other things, I'd sorely like to hear sworn testimony from Sean. It sounds as though there were 3 to 6 perps that night, so it's very likely around half a dozen (who are walking around free) know exactly what happened. The Burmese may know more than they're telling, but I can't fathom that they were the main aggressors. There are just too many reasons why that doesn't fit the scenario. Mon certainly knows more than he's allowing the general public to know. Cops may know some of what Mon knows, but it wouldn't surprise anyone if cops are sworn (and/or paid handsomely) to keep secrets.

Fully agree with ALL your comments and yes, it was the right side as you point out, my mistake.

I purposefully have not looked at any photos of Hannah's injuries. It would sadden and anger me. It's David's wounds which will more likely provide clues toward possibly solving the crime. If I had top authority in this investigation, there would be some loud and harsh words spewed forth towards those who have been hired to investigate it. 'Heads rolling' would be too nice a characterization.

Be glad you have not seen them, simply because you cannot unseen them, it is too grave! The fact that the autopsy report wants us to believe there was one murder weapon (the hoe) is so outrageous, it is simply insane IMO. I mean think about it, no DNA of David on the hoe and David his wounds clearly show multiple stab wounds on his left side (face, head and shoulder) (yes stab wounds). It is just as insane as the bottle of wine the pancake vendor/translator mentioned as a weapon used on David. I guess the RTP preferred the one weapon theory, so that is the way it will be.

Comparison 0.15 in video 1 with 3.41 in video 2, YOU BE THE JUDGE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5aQOaAXgQ#t=260

COMPARE THIS RAW CCTV FOOTAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5aQOaAXgQ#t=260

Go to 3.41 in the first video & compare with 0.15 in the second video? IMHO I clearly see the same walk, hair, movement etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

This clip 3 hours beforehand means absolutely nothing. IMHO it's just something to fill some time on the news of a topical case. But people much smarter than me will certainly be able to draw conclusions that are far superior to mine.

I don't think it means absolutely nothing, IMO I think it means absolutely everything. Comparing this CCTV person's walk, body, hair, movements with the CCTV of the BKK condo tells me that a certain somebody was on the island! I have no doubt. May I suggest you look at these CCTV footages next to each other?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

Swiss snorkeller goes missing at Koh Tao

By Coconuts Bangkok

BANGKOK: -- A Swiss tourist is missing after he went snorkeling alone on Saturday off Koh Tao.

Police yesterday conducted a search on the land and water for 44-year-old Suter Hanspeter, who never returned from snorkelling after he was reported missing by a snorkelling gear rental shop.

He went into the water at Sairee Beach, the site of the gruesome double-murder of two British travelers in September.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/11/11/swiss-snorkeller-goes-missing-koh-tao

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2014-11-11

box jelly? I mean not too long ago....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/box-jellyfish-sting-kills-french-boy-thailand

Those of us who are trying to follow the case are a bit frustrated because relatively little has come down the official tubes of late. Now this so-called 'autopsy report' by Thai specialists. What's its date? Regardless, it looks shoddy at best, when compared to what we've been hearing from online sleuths and official pronouncements. For example, how thorough were the toxicology tests? It's almost certain the victims were drinking alcoholic drinks that night, yet the report claims no drugs were detected. There are also weird date-rape drugs. Is the provincial clinic/hospital (where the autopsy allegedly took place) qualified to test for a dozen other substances, including date-rape drugs?

That was a major deficiency in some prior Thai crime investigations, most notably on Ko Phi Phi, where Thai specialists were unable to deduce toxicology data on those who suddenly died. Thai officials started off opining that the young women died from eating poisonous fish. A bit later, they guessed that some over-the-counter drug did them in, like Ibuprophin. These failures (of Thai investigations) should be a wake-up call for Thailand to train medics and and equip their clinics throughout the land, particularly near tourist regions, to be able to do adequate toxicological tests.

Every year, Thai universities pump out tens thousands of business specialists (many of whom probably wind up selling whitening cream at malls), but how many forensic experts come forth?

The recent autopsy (re; Ko Tao crime) claimed David had his head bashed in. The report also didn't seem to mention the multiple clean stab wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty.

Do you mean?

1) It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty, or

2) It should be clear to everybody who has been following this case these reports on the autopsy are more than ludicrous!

I forgot to mention that the autopsy report did also say that water was found in David's lungs.

I have now read the cover page or summary of the autopsy report regarding David which is posted separately. It also gives details of the discovery of the body and police surmise as to how death took place.

The page says that David's body was found on 15th November!

I thought the autopsy was done at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok but the cover page cites a doctor at Koh Tao Hospital (I didn't know there was one there).

At the bottom of the page is a little summary of facts regarding when David and Hannah arrived in KT and that they met there. Then it goes on to say that they went to the Sairee beach together and were most likely having sex together, during the course of which they were attacked by the killer (or killers) with a hoe and sustained several wounds resulting in death. (Interesting how accurately the police theory about what happened foreshadowed the confessions the 2B would make a few days later). However, there is no evidence presented in the report for the presumption that the two victims had sex together at all. If this were the case, one would think that David's DNA would be found somewhere on Hannah's body, or at least inside the condom found on the beach. Otherwise, one might suggest that this was one of several possibilities but not supported by any forensic evidence.

Police reports in the media mentioned that some died blond hair was found in one of Hannah's hands and shortly before the arrest of the 2B police said they were about to arrest three Burmese, one of whom had had died blond hair on the night of the murders but had recently died it black again. The autopsy report didn't mention this and police have not referred to it since. None of the two Burmese suspects or their friend who was originally held as a witness had blond hair on the CCTV pictures on the night of the murders and it has never been made clear who the blond Burmese they referred to was. It is strange that no analysis was made of this potentially important piece of evidence. Equally there is no mention of any DNA traces found in Hannah's fingernails or teeth which would most likely have been the case, if she had fought her attackers. Nor is there any suggestion of the presence (or absence) of any other DNA traces in the form of pubic hair, which would normally be deposited in a rape, unless all rapists were completely clean shaven, or other tissue samples, apart from two lots of semen and one man's saliva found on nipples.

Police reports similarly said that David had wounds on his knuckles which he must have sustained as a result of trying to fight off his attackers. No mention of these wounds in the report which implies that he was struck on the head while having sex which presumably precluded fighting back or sustaining wounds on his knuckles.

If I was not aware that the British detectives were full of praise for the Thai police investigation which was exactly how they would have done things in the UK, I might be suspicious that police removed any extraneous details that didn't fit with the scenario they had decided on by the time they wrote the report. However, it is hard to imagine British plods sending the bodies of two murder victims for autopsy to a local cottage hospital which almost certainly wouldn't have the necessary equipment or even a qualified forensic pathologist. Would the plods then be satisfied with a perfunctory autopsy report which might be more appropriate in the case of terminally ill nonagenarians who had peacefully passed away in a hospice? Since we know the plods asserted they would have done exactly the same, I am now wondering how they manage to solve as many murder cases as they do but I am a rank amateur compared to the brilliant sleuths of Koh Tao and Scotland Yard with their common textbook.

Speechless, this is more than a bad movie! I simply cannot believe they dare to convict based on this report.

Stephen, the British press (Mirror or Mail) reported David and Hannah staying at same Sea View Guesthouse/hotel which is how they came to meet in the first place.

The Grey Wolf`s scenario works still with David and Hannah going back to their hotel, alone, separately

Something as reported could have started at guest house and then moved to beach for sick staging and partial clean-up?.

Okay, accepted. Which begs the question if both were attacked at the GH by 4 perps wouldn't there have been a lot of evidence in the room? A lot of noise?On the assumption that the initial RTP investigation was on the right track, wouldn't they have visited the GH to examine the rooms? To question the staff? Other guests? And reported by them, as was their want. Or has this been buried by them and the staff at the GH?

So, why I can imagine such a scenario we don't have anything to substantiate the OP's post, nor do we have anything but hearsay, and no-one stepping forward to corroborate the story.

What could be interesting is if the Brits visited the GH on their visit, which would be a natural thing to do, and found anything that could explain how the victims ended up on the beach. The postmortem carried out at BKK would have revealed many aspects that have not been released to the media, but certainly reviewed by the Brit forensic guy.

Agreed! However also IMHO the Gray Wulf scenario is probably very close to what happened......Yes, I know, it is all speculation & hearsay.....still the key probably lies in this sentence:

They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff)

Of course they will not speak up, it will get you killed. This crime will not be solved, it will always remain speculation & hearsay. I am afraid the B2 will get killed soon by suicide!

Stephen, the British press (Mirror or Mail) reported David and Hannah staying at same Sea View Guesthouse/hotel which is how they came to meet in the first place.

The Grey Wolf`s scenario works still with David and Hannah going back to their hotel, alone, separately

Something as reported could have started at guest house and then moved to beach for sick staging and partial clean-up?.

Okay, accepted. Which begs the question if both were attacked at the GH by 4 perps wouldn't there have been a lot of evidence in the room? A lot of noise?On the assumption that the initial RTP investigation was on the right track, wouldn't they have visited the GH to examine the rooms? To question the staff? Other guests? And reported by them, as was their want. Or has this been buried by them and the staff at the GH?

So, why I can imagine such a scenario we don't have anything to substantiate the OP's post, nor do we have anything but hearsay, and no-one stepping forward to corroborate the story.

What could be interesting is if the Brits visited the GH on their visit, which would be a natural thing to do, and found anything that could explain how the victims ended up on the beach. The postmortem carried out at BKK would have revealed many aspects that have not been released to the media, but certainly reviewed by the Brit forensic guy.

Agreed completely but I also think the Gray Wulf scenario is very plausible and very near the truth, the key is probably in this sentence:

"They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff)"

Unfortunately, nobody will speak up, of course not, it will get you killed! But it should be no surprise the KT community (not only Burmese) all seem to know who were the real culprits, yes it is hearsay & speculation.

The Police General Hospital autopsy report has been posted online but I will not post it here as it is in Thai only. If interested, you should be able to find it easily.

The report that has been posted without the preamble is only one page of well spaced type for both victims and seems rather cursory in nature, compared to autopsy reports on victims of violent crime where the circumstances of death are far from clear in the US or other Western countries. Perhaps it is only a summary but it seems entirely consistent with what was described as the autopsy findings on Thai TV by the police pathologist in charge.

The report says that both Hannah and David died from violent blows to the head with a blunt instrument that caused wounding consistent with the hoe that was found nearby.

DNA traces of a Mr C were found on Hannah's nipples and semen with DNA from a Mr B and Mr C were found internally.

No sign of sexual assault on David.

No signs of toxic substances or poisoned food in either victim.

Nothing is mentioned about the multiple incision or chop wounds on David's head or upper torso or the obvious difference in the wounds to each victim that the pathologist ascribed to the same blunt instrument as murder weapon.

This report is absolutely ridiculous. David his wounds were NOT caused by the hoe, how can somebody write that down? Believing this, is the sames as believing pink elephants just landed in UFO,

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

This scenario ticks ALL the boxes!!

1) The murder did not take place at where they were found V

2) The Burmese community on Koh Tao mentioned they were murdered at their guest house V

3) The bruises on Hannahs arm suggest she was carried to the beach V

4) The angles on which her legs were found suggest a cover up V

5) The wounds on Davis are clearly from these fish-hook weapons and it was very likely a lefthanded attacker. V

6) Sean said I know you wanted to save her! Did he see them leave together? Did he know what was going on? V

7) Date rape drugs were often used before in AC, what they call them? A roofie?? Sean, please explain how they work? V

8) David had water in his lungs. V

9)

10,11,12,13,..............100 VVVVVV

It ticks all the boxes! YES, very likely it went down like this and YES the RTP knows but the influence and the MONEY made the U-turn possible!

I am just waiting for another U-turn and when that one comes the whole thing will explode in their cover-up faces!

This case is SOOOOOOOOOOO filthy, it makes me puke!

Sean, don't bother, I know how "Roofies" work now...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roofies

kcirtapyelrah, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:10, said:

Someone posted on here a couple of weeks ago that the murders took place in David or Hanna’s apartment, it appeared to be a locals viewpoint and they stated there was at least five perpetrator, one being a policeman, it was also claimed that the bodies were carried down to the beach and dumped their, which would explain the position of Hannah’s body. It takes a vivid imagination to fabricate something like that don’t you think, it’s not the sort of thing you come up with out of the blue.

I would like to know if water was actually found in David’s lungs and if it so, was it saltwater or freshwater, there’s no smoke without fire as far as I'm concerned. There are obviously locals on the island who know exactly what happened, nothing happens in Thailand without the locals knowing.

Most people realise that it would have be impossible for the two Burmese shrimps to have dealt with six-foot three of David with Hanna running around screaming her head off, it would have been impossible if Hanna wasn't there, they never would have had the confidence or ability to deal with a situation like that. The truth will be known and justice will be done one way or another.

They put the skids under Sean McAnna and got him out of the way before he put the finger on anyone.

OK WE ALL KNOW MORE OR LESS HOW IT HAPPENED, SO HOW DO WE PROVE THIS? (I am afraid we cannot).