Asheron

Many of the countries through which they travel are not signatories to the conventions on refugees. They may be able to register in some countries, but they will not be considered for refugee status and they are at the mercies and vagrancies of the country.

Their journey into Europe was not unexpected, since they were offered protection in Germany. It's a little hard to get there without going through Southern Europe.

Germany, and in this case Merkel, have no authority to say such a thing. But am i reading it correctly that you think it's alright to wander how you want through borders, without visas or permits, because you feel like it?

"If you have entered Turkey from Syria, Afghanistan etc and refuse to seek asylum there or have already saught asylum and "continue your journey" you are automatically NOT a refugee anymore"

I used to think the same logic as you, as it applied to Australia where illegal boat people fled from Indonesia where many had been living, sometimes for years. Apparently under amendments to the refugee act many years ago, and which Australia and others signed, refugees are allowed to stop in a "safe" country and then continue on, keeping their refugee status.....BLOODY CRAZY ISN'T IT.?

Indonesia, nor Turkey are signatories to the relevant UN Convention for refugees, thereby providing internationally recognised legal protection and process. Australia, as is within the rights of a sovereign nation, broke long standing international conventions for protection of refugees by implementing the PNG Solution.

Some more background...

For refugees to be able to benefit from the standards of treatment provided for by the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951Convention) and/or to its Protocol or other relevant international and regional instruments, it is essential that they have access to a procedure where the validity of their claims can be assessed. The principle of non-refoulement includes the obligation not to reject asylum-seekers at frontiers and to grant them access to a fair and efficient asylum or status determination procedures. There is no duty in international law for an individual to seek asylum in the first country that they enter.

Are you talking about this convention... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

My father and relatives are muslims. My mother side are christians. 45 years ago nobody cared about that. I am ateist. What do you want to know. That Islam is the most agressive religion. The most depressive for women. That 99% of all bomb and terrorist related things happening have islam as religion. If you didnt know it i can tell you it is. That if you would enter a moske you would be shocked about what they say of other religions. That its a cultural behavior in muslim countries that women stays home. How many do you think will start school and be educated in Europe when they cant even look at a stranger. But they will get social either way. But then there are these wonderful liberal muslims that you can talk to, where they dont force their women to not talk or look at others. Where you can talk with the mans wife in a intellectual way.

That simply isn't true and no right minded person could possibly think that.

Do you honestly think 99% of all bombings are by muslims? Ever heard of Dresden, Vietnam....basically any country that has gone to war in the last 100 years, how many of them were by muslims? If muslims dropped a nuclear bomb on a civilian population what would you think?

According to the FBI 94% of terrorist attacks are by non muslims....Do you have different facts to them?

So you translate US attacks in "world attacks"?

The Bible also condemns apostasy with death , if you read my explanation earlier that the Quran was based on the Torah (Old testament)

some examples of death penalty for apostasy in the bible.

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Two old testament quotes from a book that basicly a handful christians in the world care about.

"No one" is denying that the "God" of the old testament is a psychopathic massmurdering lunatic... bit like the "God" in Quran.

Do christians think it is a different god in the new testament?

I have no idea actually. Main reason is that the first commandment says "thou shalt have no other Gods before me". Surely logic dictates that if "God" says something like that there are OTHER GODS to worship?

Do you know that for a fact ?

Were the homosexuals separated from the many 1000's the mad "prophet" had slaughtered ?

well the death penalty for homosexuality was never carried out by any modern Muslim nations with the exception of Saudi Arabia - Iran and bokoharam in Nigeria, there is even a story where the prophet met a homosexual were talking with some women and he just argued with him and he definitely did not execute him.

the story is documented in this book Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 32, Number 4095

A mukhannath(a transgender) used to enter upon the wives of Prophet. They (the people) counted him among those who were free of physical needs. One day the Prophet entered upon us when he was with one of his wives, and was describing the qualities of a woman, saying: When she comes forward, she comes forward with four (folds in her stomach), and when she goes backward, she goes backward with eight (folds in her stomach). The Prophet said: Do I not see that this (man) knows what here lies. Then they (the wives) observed veil from him.[2]

Perhaps muslim states aren't murdering gays for just being gays but isn't it.... erhmm... "odd" that muslim majority countries give rats more rights than LGBT[1]?

And while you are at it go read this[2]. I can help you by telling you can skip everything and just read the the two last article (24 & 25).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

[2] http://www.oic-oci.org/english/article/human.htm

Again, stop feeling so much and start to think rationally and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand the comparison... and it has nothing to do with if something exists today or not.

Still idiotic, dude.

There are a number of nations where a gay Muslim person can be "out" and not usually be murdered. Any Jewish Nazi in Nazi Germany who was discovered was instantly dead. The Islamic world is diverse. It includes places like TORONTO.

So according to you, the great islamolog of TV, there is no death penalty in islam for homosexuality AND islam is mutable. Gotcha. What next... that you can actually start to change verses in the Quran and Muhammed isn't "the perfect man ever to live on this planet and all muslims should be like him"?

But you still didn't get the comparison, try harder.

Yes, Islam is mutable. It's called REFORM. As in any religion.

I never said many gay people aren't being murdered in the name of Islam. Of course they are.

That's also happening today in the name of Christianity. It's fair to say less so than Islam but still a real problem.

There was a recent case of one insane Jewish fundamentalist trying to kill gay people in the name of Judaism, but that was a very isolated case, loudly condemned by Jewish religious and political leaders, and in general is not a problem with Jews today.

No, you can't really change ancient religious texts except in cases of translation and interpretation issues. But you can change the way ancient texts are regarded in the modern era. There is no Spanish Inquisition anymore. They saw that as inspired by their religion. Modern Catholics don't. Get it now, dude?

There is no reform and will never be any reform when it comes to mainstream islam. Sure, you can have fringe cults of islam trying to fool themself that it's alright to be gay muslim according to islam but mainstream islam will be what it has been the last 1400 years or so.

And do you even know why there was an inquisition?

The Bible also condemns apostasy with death , if you read my explanation earlier that the Quran was based on the Torah (Old testament)

some examples of death penalty for apostasy in the bible.

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Two old testament quotes from a book that basicly a handful christians in the world care about.

"No one" is denying that the "God" of the old testament is a psychopathic massmurdering lunatic... bit like the "God" in Quran.

Again, stop feeling so much and start to think rationally and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand the comparison... and it has nothing to do with if something exists today or not.

Still idiotic, dude.

There are a number of nations where a gay Muslim person can be "out" and not usually be murdered. Any Jewish Nazi in Nazi Germany who was discovered was instantly dead. The Islamic world is diverse. It includes places like TORONTO.

So according to you, the great islamolog of TV, there is no death penalty in islam for homosexuality AND islam is mutable. Gotcha. What next... that you can actually start to change verses in the Quran and Muhammed isn't "the perfect man ever to live on this planet and all muslims should be like him"?

But you still didn't get the comparison, try harder.

Identifying yourself as gay muslim is like identifying yourself as jewish nazi.

That's an idiotic statement.

Homosexuality occurs among Muslims exactly the same as in any human population.

Jewish Nazis? There were some cases of Jews in Nazi Germany finding a way to hide their identity to become Nazi soldiers as a survival mechanism.

Totally different situations.

Also to add Jew are a TINY ethnoreligious group, with significant populations only in three nations: Israel, USA, and France.

Muslims much less so. More like a global religion with a huge very diverse population in many regions on the planet.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all important Abrahamic religions.

But on population, Jews are insignificant.

Once again you show that you are entirely controlled by feelings as you do not understand the comparison.

I understand it. It's idiotic. The gay Muslim thing is very real, very today. The Jewish Nazi thing basically doesn't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

Again, stop feeling so much and start to think rationally and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand the comparison... and it has nothing to do with if something exists today or not.

"If you have entered Turkey from Syria, Afghanistan etc and refuse to seek asylum there or have already saught asylum and "continue your journey" you are automatically NOT a refugee anymore"

I used to think the same logic as you, as it applied to Australia where illegal boat people fled from Indonesia where many had been living, sometimes for years. Apparently under amendments to the refugee act many years ago, and which Australia and others signed, refugees are allowed to stop in a "safe" country and then continue on, keeping their refugee status.....BLOODY CRAZY ISN'T IT.?

You mean Australia has their own amendment? Well, if they do have it's nothing i have ever heard of but isn't that then a contradiction to the fact that Australia send basic everyone to Naura who try to enter Australia by boat?

Identifying yourself as gay muslim is like identifying yourself as jewish nazi.

That's an idiotic statement.

Homosexuality occurs among Muslims exactly the same as in any human population.

Jewish Nazis? There were some cases of Jews in Nazi Germany finding a way to hide their identity to become Nazi soldiers as a survival mechanism.

Totally different situations.

Also to add Jew are a TINY ethnoreligious group, with significant populations only in three nations: Israel, USA, and France.

Muslims much less so. More like a global religion with a huge very diverse population in many regions on the planet.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all important Abrahamic religions.

But on population, Jews are insignificant.

Once again you show that you are entirely controlled by feelings as you do not understand the comparison.

"Greece has been urged to declare a state of emergency on its border with the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia where some 12,000 migrants and refugees are stuck, unable to continue their journey."

Has everyone lost their brain or something? Because i wonder why everyone continue to spread the lie that a "refugee" has some kind of right to choose ("continue their journey") which country to stay in, there is no such right. If you have entered Turkey from Syria, Afghanistan etc and refuse to seek asylum there or have already saught asylum and "continue your journey" you are automatically NOT a refugee anymore, you are either a colonizer or illegal immigrant (same thing really).

What should be done is that we, the EU or EU nations, start negotiating with dirty poor countries like Zimbabwe about establishing "illegal immigrant detainment camps" for any and all that enter Europe illegally. We could quite fast fix Zimbabwes shitty economy by giving them a few billion Euros to have the illegal immigrants there for us.

This should not even be discussed in my opinion. Why bring it up? No doubt most comments will be polorizing and could create hate. Leave it alone. Let America and Europe focus on it and see how they will be affected. Better to ignore it, go with the flow and make everyone your friend!

Yeah, lets gather around the camp fire, hold our hands and sing kumbayah.

With regard to Muslim friends in the OP, doesn't the Koran say not to take kafir as your friends?

Perhaps so, I don't know, but be clear not all Muslims are fundamentalists. The Thai Muslims I have known have been gay. Also not fundamentalist. I guess you could be a gay Muslim fundamentalist but that wouldn't be easy to pull off.

I think there is a dynamic as there are so many Islamic majority nations (over 50 I think) of different social ways of being when you're a minority vs. when you're the majority. In Thailand, Muslims are a significant population but still clearly a minority.

Also, some of the stuff often associated with Islamic groups such as the Saudi female extreme covering custom isn't really from Islam, but more about their specific CULTURE there.

I'm not pretending to be an expert on Islam but I know enough to feel supportive of the Muslim activists in the world working towards reform within Islam ... such as more equal treatment for women, not murdering gays, etc. Things like dietary rules should be respected ... doesn't hurt anyone, but it would be nice for Muslims if they had the FREEDOM to leave the faith.

I also know for a fact, that as Jew, credible surveys show that the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East hate Jews just for being Jews. Even in nearby Malaysia. That makes me sad, but I refuse to hate people back just for their ethnicity or religion. Because it's not everyone so it's not fair to assume it's everyone, when it isn't. Of course running around Isis land with a rainbow flag and yarmulke wouldn't be too bright, now would it?

Identifying yourself as gay muslim is like identifying yourself as jewish nazi.

This is tragic, this poor guys only offence is not leaving the country, he didn't harm anybody. Whatt happened to this guy must be dream come true for people who vilify fellow foreigners who over stay. Visa sub forum here is full of posters calling for harsh punishment for foreigners who have over stayd, a very minor, victimless offence.

Lets put your allegation to the test, shall we ?

Who on this form feels that over stayers deserve to have violence inflicted upon them ?

Whitemouse says that this forum is full of people who dream about this kind of thing .

Is he correct or is he just being abusive about forum posters without reason ?

Whitemouse is correct. This forum is stuffed full of people who will see this as " He got what he deserved "

I class it the same as riding a motorcycle without a license or helmet

That said I don't believe the police would inflict such violence simply for being on overstay and would hazard a guess he decided to not come quietly shall we say

Yes maybe he was very drunk and mouthed off at police or he was put in a cell with other people and mouthed off at them, other than that why would he be bashed for being an overstayer??

Yes because it's perfectly fine to beat someone up for being "mouthy"....

This is tragic, this poor guys only offence is not leaving the country, he didn't harm anybody. Whatt happened to this guy must be dream come true for people who vilify fellow foreigners who over stay. Visa sub forum here is full of posters calling for harsh punishment for foreigners who have over stayd, a very minor, victimless offence.

Lets put your allegation to the test, shall we ?

Who on this form feels that over stayers deserve to have violence inflicted upon them ?

Whitemouse says that this forum is full of people who dream about this kind of thing .

Is he correct or is he just being abusive about forum posters without reason ?

Whitemouse is correct. This forum is stuffed full of people who will see this as " He got what he deserved "

I class it the same as riding a motorcycle without a license or helmet

That said I don't believe the police would inflict such violence simply for being on overstay and would hazard a guess he decided to not come quietly shall we say

If the French guy did actually become violent, which is a distinct possibility, then , it would be correct to say that he got what he deserves, or at least it was his own fault .

But that isnt what Whitemouse said . He said that many TV members would be in favour of the Police physically attacking over stayers , which I believe to be incorrect .

Having harsher punishment for overstayers may be of the opinion of some, but I have yet to read anyone who is in favour of violent attacks carried out by the Police

Why would the Frenchman even need to become "violent" All he would have to do is say something perceived as an insult.....

Have you never heard of Thai police waving their guns, firing at people they don't like, or running them over repeatedly with a car?

Have you never heard of an occasion when a Thai male has beaten or hacked someone to death for a perceived insult?

No no no no.... "no true thai would ever do such a thing!".

Once again, if the nation's security and economic experts are so smart, why are we in this mess? If having a WTO with China in it is such a good deal, why have we lost so much money and jobs to them? For decades we've been following the experts' failed advice.

Insanity is doing the same thing while hoping for a different result? Then if we elect insiders to DC we are insane.

Cheers.

You are in this mess, because you keep on insisting that the republican party, who is mostly to serve the super rich, is the answer. Taxation of the rich and the big corporations, is one way to see what they are all about. That's money, which should be shared to the middle class, but is not.

You are in this mess, because your instinct, for what ever reason, is to believe, that GOP will protect the little people, while deep down you should know that it's not the answer.

You are in this mess because you put your faith in religion, not education and sciences, which make the fear of unknown disappear. You fail to help yourself out of the manipulation of few, who use your ignorance to gain power.

You are in this mess, because you have faith in the wrong people.

I know, democrats are pretty corrupted themselves. I personally don't trust Hillary as a person. However she still might be fairer to the real people, than any of the whoohaa persons, who are now representing GOP.

You could also put your faith to Bernie. He seems to be a person, who actually cares for the little people. You. If the middle class is happy, the country is often happy and thus productive. The US has forgotten the middle class, like many other countries has done as well.

About your last sentence about Bernie.

You mean that the rich should be forced to give away their money to the poorer people... because... erhm... why exactly? No one is responsible that someone is poor, they themself are responsible for that. I'm not 100% sure about the education system in the USA when it comes to costs but i would bet money that each state have so called "free" (read: paid by rich peoples taxes) college educations where basicly any dumbass can get a degree and start earning money instead of leaching of other people.

And do not kid yourself for even a nanosecond that any politician really care anything about "you".

Blessed are the cheese makers !

Come on you American bible thumpers! Sermon on the mount and all that

I know it's hard to think rationally but i got news for you: not all non-american people in the world are brain washed socialists.

You are in this mess, because you keep on insisting that the republican party, who is mostly to serve the super rich, is the answer. Taxation of the rich and the big corporations, is one way to see what they are all about. That's money, which should be shared to the middle class, but is not.

You are in this mess, because your instinct, for what ever reason, is to believe, that GOP will protect the little people, while deep down you should know that it's not the answer.

You are in this mess because you put your faith in religion, not education and sciences, which make the fear of unknown disappear. You fail to help yourself out of the manipulation of few, who use your ignorance to gain power.

You are in this mess, because you have faith in the wrong people.

I know, democrats are pretty corrupted themselves. I personally don't trust Hillary as a person. However she still might be fairer to the real people, than any of the whoohaa persons, who are now representing GOP.

You could also put your faith to Bernie. He seems to be a person, who actually cares for the little people. You. If the middle class is happy, the country is often happy and thus productive. The US has forgotten the middle class, like many other countries has done as well.

About your last sentence about Bernie.

You mean that the rich should be forced to give away their money to the poorer people... because... erhm... why exactly? No one is responsible that someone is poor, they themself are responsible for that. I'm not 100% sure about the education system in the USA when it comes to costs but i would bet money that each state have so called "free" (read: paid by rich peoples taxes) college educations where basicly any dumbass can get a degree and start earning money instead of leaching of other people.

And do not kid yourself for even a nanosecond that any politician really care anything about "you".

The individual politicians, in any party can be selfish bastards, therefore the country's policies need to be for the people. If only the education had been a valued and needed as much during the time your constitution was written, as it's required in today's world, it would had been an important amendment to your constitution.

I come from the country where the university and any tertiary education is free. Not only that, our government gives our students money for food and even occasional beers. It's not much, but it's possible to live and do full time studies, with the money. We also get money for accommodation, free healthcare, subsidised lunches and train tickets etc. This is to allow our students to get their reach their full potential, regardless how much money their parents have.

This changes the policy from educating only those whose families have money; to educating all those who are willing to do the work and have brainpower to do it, to get a good education. In this way, my little country can get far more out of it's population, than it would get, if the education would only be available for the few selected (with money).

Education is an investment for the future, both in individual and society level. The latter benefits the super rich people as well as everybody else in the society.

For the security, well educated middle class people rarely cause problems and havoc on the streets. At least not when they have mortgages to worry about. Did I remember to say that my socialistic government also gives tax deductions for people who have house loans?

While you might call this socialism and cancer, I call it as planning the future success of the country.

The problem for socialists like yourself is to understand that nothing is free. And believing in socialism is like believing in the santa claus, most people grow out of it eventually, it's the reason why so many younger people are on Bernies side and so but there are of course older people who still believe in santa claus because hey, why not right?

I'm not american, i was born and raised in a socialist european country and that country is still a socialist country and will be so forever until it vanishes because people really think they are entitled to "something" and that "something" is to be given to them for free because they feel so. And this socialist country i'm talking about is pumping up it's already inflated GDP by borrowing money.

Do i have to say that the "free" education in this socialist country also haven't done anything to change the situation for the so called "poor" or middle class?

It's really fascinating that adult really think that persons X, Y and Z should give them money so they can ride trains etc for "free".

I currently have the temp. 2 year license for both car and motorcycle and they both expire on same day in march 2017. My question is, how early can i get the "real" 5 year licenses? Is it 6 months before they expire?

Once again, if the nation's security and economic experts are so smart, why are we in this mess? If having a WTO with China in it is such a good deal, why have we lost so much money and jobs to them? For decades we've been following the experts' failed advice.

Insanity is doing the same thing while hoping for a different result? Then if we elect insiders to DC we are insane.

Cheers.

You are in this mess, because you keep on insisting that the republican party, who is mostly to serve the super rich, is the answer. Taxation of the rich and the big corporations, is one way to see what they are all about. That's money, which should be shared to the middle class, but is not.

You are in this mess, because your instinct, for what ever reason, is to believe, that GOP will protect the little people, while deep down you should know that it's not the answer.

You are in this mess because you put your faith in religion, not education and sciences, which make the fear of unknown disappear. You fail to help yourself out of the manipulation of few, who use your ignorance to gain power.

You are in this mess, because you have faith in the wrong people.

I know, democrats are pretty corrupted themselves. I personally don't trust Hillary as a person. However she still might be fairer to the real people, than any of the whoohaa persons, who are now representing GOP.

You could also put your faith to Bernie. He seems to be a person, who actually cares for the little people. You. If the middle class is happy, the country is often happy and thus productive. The US has forgotten the middle class, like many other countries has done as well.

About your last sentence about Bernie.

You mean that the rich should be forced to give away their money to the poorer people... because... erhm... why exactly? No one is responsible that someone is poor, they themself are responsible for that. I'm not 100% sure about the education system in the USA when it comes to costs but i would bet money that each state have so called "free" (read: paid by rich peoples taxes) college educations where basicly any dumbass can get a degree and start earning money instead of leaching of other people.

And do not kid yourself for even a nanosecond that any politician really care anything about "you".

And again the "thais never do anything wrong" and "no true thai would do that" band wagon is out in full force.

Errm yes mainly because thais can't overstay. You do get that right?

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Yes because surely no thai would beat any foreigner in jail or anywhere else in Thailand. Only logical explanation for all this is that the foreigner started a local "fight club" and the only member so far is himself so he had to smack himself up... because again, SURELY no thai would ever beat a foreigner and if they did it was the foreigners fault.

If you are retired by law you must have a Thai driver’s license. The driving licenses are separate so you need to apply for them separately. The exam is much harder now. The driving test is hard as well. I drove 25,000 miles a year for 30 years and I struggled. It is much different sitting on the opposite side. I recently applied with 200 applicants and only 20 of us passed the exam and the driving test. My American licensed expired so I had to start all over. I trained with Like English driving school and to be honest there is no way I would have passed the first time without their training help and translation assistance. The written test is in English now. I passed the separate exam for the motorcycle license, but failed the bike driving test twice and gave up. You can rent bikes there, but not cars. I'm 68 years old and my balance must be bad. You have to drive down a raised 4" wide rail a long distance and I keep running off to the right. Good Luck.

If you think the driving test(s) in Thailand is hard then i advice you, for all our sake, that you do not drive any vehicle.

And again the "thais never do anything wrong" and "no true thai would do that" band wagon is out in full force.

This is tragic, this poor guys only offence is not leaving the country, he didn't harm anybody. Whatt happened to this guy must be dream come true for people who vilify fellow foreigners who over stay. Visa sub forum here is full of posters calling for harsh punishment for foreigners who have over stayd, a very minor, victimless offence.

Overstaying is NOT a victimless offence. This guy is a victim of others overstaying. Others will be victims of his overstaying.

Authorities are sick to death of those who have no regard or respect for Thai laws, so throw offenders in the pen. You are in Thailand, so respect their laws.

I have no idea how he sustained the injuries, but others will no doubt be sure the BiB bashed him. Time may tell on that point.

It's not difficult to do the right thing, so don't bleat about victimless crime, minor breach, breach of no consequence, etc.

If your visa requires border runs, do them. They're part of the price you pay to stay in Thailand.

I see, time and again, posts looking to short circuit the visa requirements. Just comply.

Maybe you should first preach to the entire thai population about "respecting their laws" before lecturing about a victimless crime committed by a foreigner?

Sadly I have to say Hilary as Trump is a rich loud mouthed bigot!

Clinton isn't part of the "rich club" according to you?