richard_smith237

There is nothing illegal in that manoeuvre at all. Particularly when turning from the left most lane. According to the Thai laws I have read - the shoulder is not a lane in which motorcyclists can ride unless it is legally designated and marked as a motorcycle lane in which case there is a ‘dashed line’ to the right of this ‘motorcycle lane’ and the car in effect is then driving in lane 2 (see next post). The motorcyclist may as well have been riding down the field next to the road and ridden into the side of the Ops Wife as (or after) she turned. I would argue that when riding down the shoulder the motorcyclist (as they are not on a legal road) has to stop for any vehicle turning left from lane one. Agreed... there are a few interesting aspects of this discussion for me. The first: The Police charing to ‘adjudicate’... i.e. the Police charging to do their job. I’ve been in that station and paid the 500 baht - it just seems extremely strange and somewhat questionable. I’d like to learn what the ‘official’ reason for this is (and yes, as another poster mentioned, if a receipt is given (I can’t remember). The Second: The proportioning of blame according to a) the Law and b) what people think the law is and c) regardless of the law us being aware of social norms of people breaking the law anyway is the onus of the driver to also be aware of people breaking the law when riding ? The Third: The act of riding a motorcycle on the shoulder (as discussed, the safety aspect) but also the legal aspect. So many people now do this, do the police accept this as being legal when making their judgement of fault if a motorcycle riding down the shoulder hits us while we are turning left. The fourth: The discussion of motorcycle safety and how motorcyclists often take chances when undertaking vehicles. This is something I find myself having to be extremely cautious of - when turning left, attempting to block as best as possible anything from riding up the inside... as much as I try I still often have to hit the brakes as a motorcyclist still tries to squeeze up the impossible gap as I’m about to turn left.

We did just this last week and Rama II road is indeed mish-mash of overhead construction and cars & pickups jostling to get one car ahead.... But... even with the road works Rama II road remains the best route into Bangkok, unless google maps show its horribly gridlocked. Just looking at Google Maps and comparing the route now - Continuing north via Ratchaburi and coming in through Nakhon Pathom (as if entering BKK from Kanchanaburi) adds an extra hour to the trip. Peeling off north on Route 3091 effectively ‘cutting out the ‘Ratchaburi corner of the journey’ and heading in through Bang Khae may be a decent option, but then you are entering smaller roads which also have their own risk of tail-backs, also this enters the city along Sathorn road which gets very busy. Another option maybe peeling off from Rama II road at taking the outer ring road, but that still involves a couple of KM’s of road-works and a possible tail-back. Ultimately - it depends on the time of travel. We looked at this last week, Monday was a public holiday. Travelling in at Lunchtime on a Sunday was fairly quick without any notable delay, at times the frontage road was moving faster than the central lanes though... But everything was still moving at 60-100 kmh.

A bit of a hint would help like Big C (extra), Pattaya Klang. Few Thais will be aware about the "extra". One can not really complain too loud. But still... As scuba mentioned... the destination is a ‘pin point’ on the map... ... That pin-point is selected by the customer not the driver. Thus: IF the customer has selected the wrong Big-C then the driver would drive to that Big-C. Not really the drivers fault. I watch a friend of mine try and use the Grab App... when he’s had a few he can never set the pickup point to the correct location !!!.... I have to do it for him.

Where did the op state his wife switched lanes & collided ? You accused me earlier of manufacturing an argument but you are fabricating stories ( changed lanes / collided ). Ops wife was driving in lane 1 ( left most lane ) indicated left, slowed, turned left and was hit by a motorcyclist. There is no mention she was driving in lane 2 changed to lane 1 colliding with the motorcycle. The motorcyclist apparently rode up the shoulder ( not a driving or riding lane ) at speed, hitting the car turning left. The Ops wife has not been blamed for the accident by the police. I’m not sure why some see the Ops wife is at fault unless they do not understand the road laws and assume the shoulder is a legal riding lane.

As Ryan said…. It depends on your intended use. I use an Apple air-tag on my motorbike, a passive system which is much cheaper. It seems you may want an active system.

If a genuine tourist is thinking of buying a vehicle while on holiday in a country, I'd put nothing past them. ???? All completely irrelevant...... The op wants to know about buying a motorcycle. Did you really think the Op is so stupid he is unaware he could rent a motorcycle ?.... .... A bit insulting that... suspecting someone is so stupid and you have this golden droplet of knowledge that he could in fact rent instead of buy !!!....... genius !!!! Living here on a tourist visa? Do you know there are visas for doing that? ???? Many people live here juggling tourist visa’s, visa exempts, Ed Visas etc .. utterly, utterly irrelevant to the thread.

Consider your claim disputed as its not a fact !!! I rented a motorcycle two weeks ago with without showing my passport. (I left my Thai DL with the shop).

You’ve stated the op turned across her (I assume you mean the Ops wife turned across the motorcyclists). So you think it is the Ops wife at fault?

You are aware mhortig is the Op right? (I even quoted him in the above response for you !) His wife had the accident. The Fugitive had a very similar accident. We’re allowed to discuss rules, laws & regulations impacting them both… The causes of both appear to be the same. A motorcyclist riding up the shoulder (not legal) & a vehicle turning left (perfectly legal). Why are you struggling so much with this ?

The incidents are very similar - nothing manufactured at all. the Op has never commented that he turned & hit a motorcycle - that is your fabrication. The op stated that his wife turned left & was hit by a motorcycle riding up the shoulder. The op also started in his view motorcyclist at fault. It is perhaps you who needs learn how to read & assimilate information !!!

What ! you think a tourist isn’t aware they could hire motorcycle ? erm….. The op is probably planning on living here on a tourist visa to start with…. Irrelevant to the question but a more realistic assumption.

In that case, IF the Op overtook the motorcyclist before suddenly turning left cutting off the motorcyclist then I would agree that the car was in the wrong. But... thats not what The Fugitive describes.... he suggest that the car turned left from lane 1 and couldn’t see the motorcyclists because there was also a truck behind the car... This suggest the motorcyclist continued up the inside of both the truck and the car (not speeding - fair enough) but continuing at ‘normal riding speed’ on the shoulder.... Motorcycles should not be on the shoulder - the shoulder is not a motorcycle lane, this is a common misconception in Thailand. There is a reason riding on the shoulder is illegal in most countries (Thailand included) and it is because of accidents such as this. It is against the law for vehicles to under-take to the left...

You’ve turned across her ! The motorcyclist was not driving on the road. The motorcyclist was ‘attempting’ to under-take (over take on the left side). In both cases the Motorcyclist was in the wrong. Contrary to popular belief the shoulder is not a Motorcycle lane... Technically the ‘hard shoulder’ is considered a side-walk - it can’t be parked in or riden / driven in. It can be used in an emergency ‘with your hazard lights on’ (or by emergency vehicles). It can be parked in, only IF your vehicle has broken down.

Agreed, but I’d also suggest that the knowledge of the law in Thailand by the Police here is less than the level we’d expect from Police in Europe, the US or Aus etc. I’ve no issue with that other than to point out that the Police here do not always know the laws they are enforcing and its perfectly ok to question them and disagree with them (politely of course). Policemen will enforce a specific traffic law at a specific junction based on what their peers were enforcing previously, or follow or enforce specifics road laws based on what their colleagues and peers enforce - its not uncommon that this ‘hand-me-down’ information is incorrect....

I have a number of friends who are in the Police Force (RTP and Immigration) - we’ve had plenty of discussions over beers etc over the past 20 years or so... So, yes, I know that the Police (and Immigration) in Thailand don't always know their own laws. In many cases Westerners on this forum have a better handle on the specifics of some of Thailands laws than the average police officer. Example at hand [Fugitive’s post where his niece was hit by a motorcyclist while she was turning left]: It would be very easy to show the policeman their laws (Road Traffic Act) and show them where they are wrong - the motorcyclist 100% at fault for under-taking (section 45 - overtaking to the left is illegal). It’s comical that you’d think otherwise and highlights your naivety about Thailand. Projecting your own understanding and behaviour is not really relevant...

Yoda ?

There is nothing wrong with standing your ground with the police here in Thailand. They are also humans and don’t always have all the information, quite commonly they don’t even know their own laws !!!...

I too struggled to see the car indicator flashing... thats due to the lighting of the video. The small indicator under the A-Pillar can be seen flashing which shows that the driver did indicate left.

Does the US Embassy issue the Affirmation of Residence letter to those not on resident visas ?? The reason I ask: The British Embassy will not issue this letter to those who entered Visa Exempt or on Tourist Visa’s. Meanwhile other Embassies have no issue with this. Additionally: While CW Immigration will not issue the Certificate of Address without a 90 day report, other Immigration offices will (some good first hand info on this from other members - i.e. Immigration in Chiang Mai will).

Op you have pretty much everything in place but also need the following: 1) Medical Certificate (from a local clinic - they know whats needed, just pop in anywhere, cost should be around 200 baht for the very rudimentary checkup). 2) Letter of Residence - this is a potential sticking point. You can either get a Certificate of Residence from your local immigration, IF they issue this, this depends on individual office and if they require that you have submitted a 90 day report. OR, you may be able to get an Affirmation of Address letter from your Embassy, IF they issue this to someone who arrived on an Visa Exempt Entry (e.g. the British Embassy will not issue this letter unless you are on what they consider a resident visa, e.g. non-Imm... other Embassies will).

No... there is no requirement for embassy certification of your home nations Driving licence when applying for a Thai Driving Licence.

People who ask for and discuss recommendations are perhaps a little more adventurous than sticking to whatever is on their block !!!..... The Op has asked for good recommendations... IF you have one on the block you walk around, why don’t you mention it as a recommendation if you think its good enough ????

An example posted on ‘Dangerous Driving Thailand’ FB page. https://www.facebook.com/KwaiCentre/videos/848763012969284 Apparently the car was indicating although thats very difficult to see from the clip (due to lighting). Car turning left, motorcyclist attempts to under-take the car. Motorcyclist 100% at fault IMO. Meanwhile on this thread people have suggested that a car driver is accountable for the accident when turning left collects a motorcyclist which is riding up the inside. .... I just can’t see how the car is at fault - certainly not in this video Rec2.mov [Posted because I do think the interesting discussion point how different people proportion fault / blame in an incident]

You can’t walk everywhere and you’d be limiting any restaurant to ‘only the area you do walk’... hence recommendations being a excellent source of information... and of course threads such as this.

Agreed.... I won’t ride a bicycle on the roads here either - the primary reason why is the speed differential with every other vehicle passing me. That a the the same reason I’d rather be travelling at the same speed as the traffic around me (within reason of course) and to travel at the same speed of the traffic around me, the safest place to do that is in the road, not on the frontage. I can cite my driving and riding record here (over 20 years).... but thats just anecdotal. Your safety record and mine are more likely a facet of ‘doing the right thing’ on the roads. There are of course times when I’d chose to ride on the shoulder and other times I’d defiantly chose to avoid it. It all depends on the size of the motorcycle and the speed at which the traffic is travelling. For example: This road: I’d prefer to ride at 80kmh with the other traffic on the main road, than at 50kmh on the shoulder - there is too much risk of things pulling out from the side without looking IMO. But, if I felt completely unsafe riding above 50kmh or at the speed of other traffic I can understand people who prefer to ride on the shoulder... Personally, I’d be happier on a larger bike travelling at 80-100kmh (or whatever speed the other traffic is doing) than being on a smaller bike hugging the shoulder with lots of vehicles passing me at speed. In this example I would consider it safe to ride on the shoulder where there is good visibility to see vehicles pulling out etc. I’d do so with great caution with vehicles overtaking me, then suddenly slowing to turn left. Here, there’s just too much going-on on the shoulder - to much risk of people, cars etc pulling out onto the shoulder, too much risk of cars parking, or stalls etc... then the road surface itself is covered in gritty debris... IMO way to dangerous to ride the shoulder in this example. We can all see in the above example where the road markings (unbroken white line) also follow the entrance - vehicles should not be crossing an unbroken white line - thus, motorcycles were never intended to ride this lane.