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DM07
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A few days ago someone suggested we should stop speculate and just wait for the trial to begin .
Why do I see the same posters here day after day ? You can't respect the wishes of the victims family . its a shame really.
Yeah...strange, isn't it?
Like that guy with the polar- bear in his avatar, who...oh...wait...
I said it before and I say it again: since my posts do not go to any eMail-account, connected to the 2 British - families -eg. they don't need to read any of this- I also have great respect for 2 other families in this case.
Yes...the ones, that you and the RTP- gang usually forget about: the families of the 2 suspects, who IMHO have been framed.
And it deeply troubles me, that we are in danger to see 2 more innocent victims in this case.
Therefor I reserve my right to think about this case, to inform myself and form an opinion.
And since this is a forum, open to discussion: that is what I do!
I really wouldn't mind, if you or others stayed away, though!
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By the way: Hitlers swastika is NOT copied from the Hindhu- symbol. It is based on runes from the Nordic- tales and myths.
But please... continue, by all means!
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Only if it is an in depth analysis of the horrors that nazi Germany and other fascist minded regimes carried out Europe and else where in the world.
Is it OK to make a video that portrays Nazi chic in a negative light?Hmmmmm!!! The use of anything to do with Hitler or the Nazi party is an issue and makes you wonder what makes these Thais think.
The thing is the vast majority of Thais have absolutely no idea who Hitler was and care even less.
Go out on the street find 100 English American German tourists and ask them who led Thailand against the French in the Thai French war and they will reply "What war?
You think I am kidding go ask a dozen Thais on the street who Winston Churchill or General Paton were and they won't have a clue who on earth you are talking about.
Before knocking them too hard as yourselves what do you know about Thai history..........99% of you like me could write it on a ciggy packet.
So don't worry too much a few kids wearing hitler uniforms in a silly parade are not out to start WW3 they leave that sort of thing to people like fanatical Muslims and trigger happy Westerns.
Only if it shows the graphic footage of the concentration camps, of the torture cells and killing fields that were created by those who flew this symbol and others like it.
Only if it includes interviews with survivors of these horrors with the best translation available, reflecting not only the words but the tone they are delivered in.
Only if it is an outright condemnation of the stupidity or intolerance of those wearing or using such sick symbols.
Only if it is the sole focus of the film and it is an aspect of a programme to ban and eradicate the use of such symbols.
Then and only then.
You mean this is not OK?
Do the words "context matters"mean anything to you?
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@thaiiliketoo
Yes, it is an ANTI-nazi statement.
So the only people, who could possibly be offended by that picture, by the swastika and the way it used in the picture, are NAZIS!
Got it!?
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From Andy Hall:
Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.
Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand
Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.
These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:
(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;
(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;
(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;
(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;
(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;
(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court
(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony
(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony
(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony
(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony
Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.
Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.
Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.
Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.
Shameful.
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You said it was offensive but it's not. It is a negative image. If it was a positive image it would be offensive. Somehow you understand the image is offensive (you wrote, "Whatever the intentions of the movie its insensitive and crass at best surely to use Hitler)? How?
By your logic any portrayal of Hitler on the HIstory channel is insensitive and crass? See what I'm saying?
You may not agree with me but you can hardly contest the subject without watching and understanding the Video.
It may not be offensive to you but it appears that others are offended by it. Just accept others have different feeling to you and if you keep saying others are not offended you are only tuning the knife and inflicting more pain. Everyone has different feelings and if you think Hitler is Ok and are not offended just think for a moment that others maybe offended by Hitler.
Do you find the attached photo offensive because there is a swastika in it? Wake up and watch the video.
Do YOU understand the meaning and statement of that picture?
Obviously not!
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Much respect to those who have stated they will stop the BS conspiracy theory talk after reading the victim's statements and instead wait for the trial ... shame on those who continue with nonsense.
...which would include you!
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Meanwhile, a Japanese Punk Band-singer is wearing a saffron- robe and some Thais heads explode!
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Deleted. Not worth it.
For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly!
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Good, the quicker this is put to bed the better for everyone. Happy New Year Koh Tao. See you soon for another great diving holiday on yoir beautiful coral reefs and sun kissed beaches. Amen.
Good to see, that some haven;t lost their sense of humor and sarcasm!
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Is it just me or does this smell a bit of "publicity stunt"?
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Its real funny, so many cynical people on this forum, why aren't you all helping them fund their defence ? Families are happy with outcome, and they would have more info, than anybody....
Yes, the families are happy and they may actually have more info than anybody.
That -of course- would go exclusively for the English families, who lost 2 kids.
Unfortunately it is a bit different for the families of the B2, who might loose their kids!
But the active core of RTP- defenders wouldn't care for that, right?!
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One can only imagine the extreme agony being felt in the TAT office right now. I bet the news of the B2's 'not guilty' plea went down like a lead balloon. Just think of all the tourist baht at risk as a result of the trial being prolonged and not as wished, concluded today.
Actually, having the trial will likely help return the UK backpackers. Other nationalities seem not to have diminished.
Still plenty of British heading there but apparently less than before.
...and you would know that exactly....how???
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One would have to really be trying hard to be obtuse or are completely uninformed or simply being dishonest to say the families have not made clear they are "confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged".
Family of British tourists murdered in Thailand say evidence against Myanmar migrants 'powerful and convincing'
UK families say Koh Tao case looks convincing
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html
Families of two British students murdered in Thailand back police
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/hannah-witheridge-david-miller-families-speak-thailand
Koh Tao killings: Victims family say evidence convincing
Family of Koh Tao beach victimssay evidence convincing
Hannah Witheridge's Family 'Confident' In Thai Murder Investigation
Family of murdered British backpackers in Thailand say evidence convincing
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1206/665029-thailand/
Families of two murdered tourists say they are 'confident' in police probe to solve 'atrocious crimes'
8 links (you must worked overtime on that post) when 1 would have done but not 1 of these links supports the claim that you made that "the parents have clearly stated their confidence in these two people in custody being rightfully charged." Again it is your interpretation to suit your agenda.
You have changed their words in your mind which I think is extremely disrespectful to the grieving parents.
I agree he has done this many many times and it winds me up too........Total disrespect
It is called paraphrasing (notice the lack of quotations in original post questioned) and using common sense and NOTHING I stated is not what the families were communicating --- do you believe they think these two should not be awating trial on these charges given they made clear the evidence is convincing and strong against them? Do you not believe they think they should be on trial given their desire for a trial and their comments there is more evidence than we know about the case and there forepeople speculating with their nonsense on social media should shut the hell up? (yes not using their exact words again). It would also be far fetched to believe the UK police didn't share their confidence and strong evidence with them or do you suspect the UK police told them the opposite and their is a cover-up and police have it wrong and this is why they made their statements saying what they did?
You are just putting forth more distractions to discredit reality and suggest the highly implausible.
"Paraphrasing" as in " I read it, see what I want and tell everybody, that what I think, is what is meant?"
Not being the nice guy that I am, one could call it "selective perception" or...well...lying or some kind of "theory"...maybe a "conspiracy theory"...
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Well an open question.
No ambiguity regarding the question.
Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?
A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer
The investigation has flaws. I have said so from the beginning. I don't think they are fatal flaws.
Now a question for you. The families of the victims have made comments about the investigation. They were not ambiguous. They have had people who were in Thailand and reviewed the case present the information to them. Their statement calls for a fair and transparent trial of the accused.
Do you have more actual contact with people involved in the investigation than they do, to thus think that a trial should not happen?
No...no fatal flaws!
At least not fatal for you!
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Easy to look back at police actions and have all the solutions . Police are there to act not to wait and hold hands with suspects . Garner died from being a physical wreck and resisting . Garner is worth more dead than alive , maybe the family will get off welfare now .
Amazing!
Simply amazing!
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jdinasia:"To state respect for the "full" 2 statements is synonymous to praise.
But thanks for clarification on how significant he sees those statements."
"respect"= "praise"?
In what universe?
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Now Thai justice chiefs have told the victims' grieving parents they can file joint murder charges against the men and help see them die by lethal injection.
The above is from the Daily Star on 20th October. The lowest of the low as far as tabloids go in the UK and I sincerely hope these were not the words from Thai chiefs and that the Daily Star has made an 'error'.
Hmmm...from "please leave us alone and good luck" to "kill'em all" in 24 hours!
I guess, it is all conspiracy- theory, but I have the feeling, that the reporting is not 100% accurate!
...at least, I hope, what it is!
The report re: can help them prosecute case is from October (states date in article .. Published 20th October 2014) and was widely reported and I don't remember the help kill them part.
Let me make it clear for you: from the "official statement" of the 2 families to "the 2 farang families think the B2 are guilty" to the article in the Daily Star, asking for a firing squad...hopefully the reporting is not 100% accurate! Got it now, sporty?
Speaking in general terms about reporting here!
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Hmmm...from "please leave us alone and good luck" to "kill'em all" in 24 hours!
I guess, it is all conspiracy- theory, but I have the feeling, that the reporting is not 100% accurate!
...at least, I hope, what it is!
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Sorry to say that most Thais agrees that majority of the cops are dishonest and that there is not much they can do to change it. They have tried and most already given up on the idea that they will have a police force that they can trust. But the younger generations and people here want to make a change. It may take years, but it must start some where.
And the people in the US are in the streets now because they don't trust police there and believe they kill black people without cause. Does that mean everyone the police arrests is innocent, even the blacks?
What happens when you make up stuff, speculate on BS and partial information and ignore reality to continue to push nonsense theories in a case like this is you discredit yourself and then next incident that may have validity you and others will be seen as crying wolf or the internet detective / conspiracy theorist are at it once again.
There is no real evidence to suggest the son of a island headsman was responsible and tons to show he was not. On the other side we have strong evidence already made public they got the two guys responsible for this brutal crime.
Anyway -- people are welcome to go back and look at phone pics and take early press reports as gospel and pretend no revised reports came out to continue the nonsense while not just ignore the family wishes but also their and the UK investigators opinions who were here and examined the evidence and reviewed the case ... but yes, they are either ignorant or part of the cover up.
Wrong, wrong, wrong and ...ahm...wrong again!
The people in the US (not that it matters here) are on the streets, because of very specific cases of very specific members of the police killing specific people. No one I have seen or heard so far, is accusing the entire police-force of the United States.
What happens when you make up stuff, is: a case that gets send back by the prosecutor several times to get fixed, get the facts straight, bring more evidence...you name it!
What also happens is, that after several <deleted>...mbles and (at least) misplaced interviews and questionable facts, the public has a big problem with believing the BS you are putting out in the media ("We found Hannahs phone...I mean: one of the suspects phones...David's phone...no,no his OTHER phone..." aso).
It has got nothing to do with conspiracy, but with common sense, really!
Tons of evidence?
One or two questionable pictures, conflicting testimonies by girlfriends or parents ("He was here...no, studying in Bangkok...no, partying in Pattaya...") and a bought and sold DNA- test, Daddy paid for and which we will never actually see the results off...which is probably irrelevant anyways, since we...were told so, by Daddy and the police- chief, accompanying Daddy and the son.
And last but not least: no one needs to go back! We have seen the pictures from day 1! The ones, were certain people trample across a crime -scene, were "suspects" are enacting a crime so poorly, that you have to ask yourself, why this was not done at least by professional actors and so on and so forth.
Las but not least:
a) what about respect for the families of the B2 or...god forbid...themselves, who -even if not in Thailand, so by anyone from any other country - should be INNOCENT until proven guilty (something that seems to be 100% the case for other people, connected with this case) and
b ) please spare me this horse -dung about "hate for Thailand"! It is as always the last resort in a discussion! And not a very good one!
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Suspects arrested. Response on TVF. "Scapegoats"
Suspects confess. Response on TVF. "Cannot trust the Burmese"
Suspects retract confession. Response on TVF. "Cannot trust the police"
Investigation not transparent. Response on TVF. "Let the UK police investigate it and then I will believe it" and "The UK police have no agenda so are not part of this conspiracy"
UK police travel to Thailand to investigate it. Response on TVF "Now we will find out for sure that the suspects are scapegoats as I will believe the UK police"
UK police return home" Response on TVF. "I have confidence that the UK police will prove me right and "Any moment now I will look so good on this forum amongst my peers for being right all along. I really am THE MAN"
UK police prepare there report. Response on TVF "Any moment now. Any moment I can boast that I was right all along" and "I will defiantly respect what the UK police say"
Uk police brief family and family make a statement showing "THE MAN" maybe wrong. Response on TVF. "I am still right that the suspects are scapegoats and the UK police are wrong" or "The family are in on this conspiracy" or "The UK police are in on the conspiracy" or ""I don't believe the source"
When it goes to court and IF the court finds them guilty then the courts will be in on the conspiracy right? If the court had a jury of Thai citizens and IF the jury found them guilty then the jury would be in on the conspiracy right? All because some simply do not want to be proven wrong.
I have only ever observed PTP logic on this forum, but this is a whole lotta other logic right here folks.
I was shacking my head while reading most of the comments on this article and it aint because I have shaky head syndrome.
Wow!
That was low, even for you!
They confessed and someone said "Can not trust the Burmese?"
You are wrong on so may accounts (apart from dragging the PTP into this discussion, which makes no sense at all!), that it almost tragic to follow this!
You may not have "shacky"- head syndrome, but...man...
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Did I miss the part, were all our posts are directly linked to the private eMail- accounts of the victims family?
Reading trough the REAL statements, I also miss praise for the RTP, in Hanah's parents statement even more than in David's parents.
And secondly: sure, the B2 have a difficult case to answer...it was sent back by the prosecution for at least 3 times, so I guess, the RTP had enough time, to come up with enough BS, to make it very hard...including, not providing the defense with the whole case, before bringing it to court!
This case is /was/will be so fantastically flawed, that anything but a "you are free to go" to the B2, will forever leave a black spot on Thailand, its justice-system and the RTP.
And to all the "anti-conspiracy- theorists"...get off your high horse!
I really would love to see you in a case (and I mean this rethorical- as much as I think not the best of you, I wouldn't ACTUALLY see you in a case like this!), where the police acts as scandalous as in this one!
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After watching this video, is there any reason why officers don't fear for their lives in certain neighborhoods. These people are animals.
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Some people:"Seems that Brown was an unarmed man, who was shot by a police-officer, in a dubious case!"
F430murci:"...but...but...but..other people...in totally unrelated other cases..."
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This makes the choke hold seem like child's play. Brutal people the cops have to deal with on a daily basis.
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http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh9VW0ons0QCNR7M2D
Some people:"Seems that Garner was a victim of police- brutality..."
F430murci:"...but...but...but..other people...in totally unrelated other cases..."
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Director defends 'Hitler scene' in Thai govt film
in Thailand News
Posted
And the fact, that Mao or Che are not complained about, makes every criticism of Hitler invalid?
At least one could argue about Che Guevara's role in history.
Hitler, plain and simple, was a mass- murderer. He killed millions of people in an industrialized way for their race or beliefs or orientation or because the were disabled and millions more in a war, he started.
Little ambiguity there, if you ask me.