lostoday

Back to the title of this thread: "Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'"

Yep. Western democracies have degraded to where everyone has the vote, and where a voter's choice is influenced by unrealisitc promises -- and where so many voters don't have the ability to separate reality from hype. No, you have to stack the deck to insure only the wisest -- and most altruistic -- get elected. Something like the "managed democracy" of Singapore -- where, yes, only the elite have been elected -- but their altruism has never been in doubt. So what if chewing gum -- and sedition and adverse press -- are outlawed. Singapore is the least corrupt nation in Asia -- and not by accident, but by solid leadership. Is the man on the street upset by these non-Western restrictions to democracy? Nope. Those only annoyed by this lack of "pure" democracy are the non-productive professors in their ivory towers.

Anyway, looking at the American example: We started out to insure only the educated had the vote (white, male, land owners only). Pretty elite, no? But it did go toward assuring -- hopefully -- that only well thought out decision making was involved in who got elected. Certainly not full-proof. But certainly better than giving the vote to anyone who could stagger to the voting booth. As now. With Congress full of self-serving idiots.

No, Thailand doesn't need this brand of Western crap. Just hope they can find -- and secure -- their educated and altruistic Lee Kuan Yew. As such, they do need some form of managed democracy.

You wrote, "We started out to insure only the educated had the vote (white, male, land owners only). Pretty elite."

• Abolition of property qualifications for white men, from 1792 (Kentucky) to 1856 (North Carolina) ; see: Jacksonian democracy

The United States Constitution did not originally define who was eligible to vote, allowing each state to determine who was eligible. In the early history of the U.S., most states allowed only free male adult property owners (of any ethnicity) to vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

I say voting rights should be given to persons who pay more taxes than they receive direct social transfers (general rule, with exceptions).

People living on welfare on paying no taxes should not be entitled to decide the country's policy.

I believe that is call an Plutoarchy.

No. China is much worse as is Russia.

I don't see how China or Russia are relevant, because none are Western style democracies.

You wrote, "don't you see the relationship between: western democracy --> politicians corrupt voters with "social money"

I wrote, "No." "China and Russia are much worse."

I see no relationship between Western democracy and corruption. Corruption is far more prevalent in non democratic countries.

not corruption in general, corruption within the democratic voting process. convincing low-income poeple to vote for a party by promising more welfare

I always thought that is how one got elected. Convince someone that you will give them things for free. Welfare, tax free investment incentives, solar tax exemptions, gay marriage ........

Rich people will vote for the person who makes them richer and poor people will vote for the person who will make them less poor. So?

The only difference I see is the rich can pay someone to do things that make them richer if an election fails.

This patently not true. There is responsible group who float in the middle and move depending on the situation. Why would voters move from the left wing to right in support of austerity which is not in the interest of any left leaning person.

Because of the absence of the quote function I have no idea what you mean.

If I look at the last paragraph "why would any left leaning person vote for austerity" I still have no idea what you mean.

Perhaps if you could relate it to Thailand and democracy it might help.

Could be, "I'm glad I have a Farang boyfriend it he was Thai I'd be out on my butt by now."

Which country in the West has a real democracy?

I guess THAT country can start to preach about it.

Doctor, heal thyself

Quite a few. The main thing about a democracy or what separates a democracy from other forms of governments is the way that representatives are appointed. A democracy by free election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Democracies

In any currency pair there is 2 sides to the story.

Will the Thai economy continue to slide and push it to 37, or

has the fed got it wrong and the dollar slide back to where it came form.

The dollar is certainly in a more precarious position than the baht.

Asian Currencies Record Biggest Monthly Decline in Three Years

Bloomberg 3 hours ago.

It's not so much a Thai Baht story as it is the rest of Asia, THB down 2.3%.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-31/asian-currencies-set-for-biggest-monthly-decline-in-three-years

When you add the politics and bomb stories it gets into 36 for sure and 41 maybe.

It really is a shame that a 14 year old would knowingly agree and start selling herself using this woman as an agent or pimp. Who is teaching these kids about morals and values and self esteem? As for the lady who got her customers! A woman in a position such as her as a reporter should be locked up for a long time. Maybe she can do reports from a prison cell. If it was my daughter she made the offer to, I don't believe she would be alive for very much longer

Think about it! What poorly educated girl, anywhere in the 3rd world, would knock back a chance to make B 500 for a half hours work? The 22 year old is probably in the same position having been asked if she could supply such a person! IMHO

All those who express "shock horror" should look around in their own community, who really helps the poorist in their communities?

It is shocking and goes against the grain for us Farang, but not that much out of the normal for Thai, and many other Asian countries, many even marry them off at that age in Asia and Africa

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-five-countries-highest-rates-child-prostitution-1435448

February 6, 2014 17:40 GMT

Top 5

Sri Lanka, Thailand, Brasil, USA, Canada

I think it's a good idea. It will take them longer to figure out what is going on in their country.

What was the sentence she used. Without that no one can give you a definitive answer.

In any currency pair there is 2 sides to the story.

Will the Thai economy continue to slide and push it to 37, or

has the fed got it wrong and the dollar slide back to where it came form.

The dollar is certainly in a more precarious position than the baht.

Bloomberg 3 hours ago.

700 million dollars,thats putting Thailand to shame,how did he think he could

get away with it putting it in his own account, an honest mistake !

also what happen about the Mongolian mistress that was murdered.

some of these people get carried away with big egos and think they can

get away with anything.

regards Worgeordie

I agree with you. I just don't get it. How can they be that powerful and that stupid at the same time. "I threw the blue dress away - sok I believe you." Betcha I can buy a submarine - can't - can - can't - can.

Sorry, I did not mean to flame you.

I had not seen the journal previously and it made me laugh

Sorry if I offended you ?

That's OK. I think most Americans are like me. Get the guns away from the drug lords and gang bangers and leave them in the hands of the hunters and home/business owners who know how to handle them.

Gun control laws only control guns in the legitimate market and they are not the problem. America has a crime and drug problem and guns are an integral part of that problem.

Do you want to take the guns from the cops and business owners that are at risk every day of murder and mayhem?

Malaysians are united in their anger at the mismanagement of this country!

This is a common theme around the world...Brazil, Venezuela, Greece, and many others as economies slow down, unemployment rises, and people become disenchanted with their leadership...

The downside of all this is a country may dissolve into anarchy as in Syria...resulting in war, sever damage and destruction to people, property, and national treasures...

The bad news is this...there is no immediate end in sight to the world's woos as world economies retract and governments print gobs of money to try and cover over their failed economic policies...

The answer is take the money back from the people who stole it from the countries.

How do you know this?

Ask some of em how long they've been working there.

That would imply you actually knew how old they are now. I find that Farang are lousy judges of Thai female age to the point of absurdity.

Fine. Ask em how old they were when they started working at the bars.

That would imply they were telling you the truth.

I assume by your statement that you have never met an underage girl in a bar and are only referring to legal women who told you about their past.

Assume what you want. There's data and news reports out there to prove it. I think one of the bars at Soi Cowboy was recently busted for using underage girls. But those girls are out there, and anyone who engages in prostitution here- or elsewhere in the world- should be very careful with young girls.

I asked a simple question. How do you know this. Your real answer is,

"I read it in the newspapers."

That is what I thought because whenever anyone is pressed no one has ever actually met an underage lady at a bar. I don't think it happens much anymore. I read about it just as much in America and Australia as I do in Thailand.

Not suprising when firearms can be bought as easy as a coca cola from seven eleven.... A Ban on firearms is long overdue - sure the cowboys will cry its against their freedom and right to protect themselves. But the rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!

Perhaps you should look at the firearms laws in the USA they vary by state as it is the United States of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Why are you afraid of Americans having guns? How does it affect you?

You wrote, "The rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!"

Among the best countries for gun owners are Finland, Sweden, Canada, Norway and Switzerland.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-countries-gun-owners/

Of all of the points you try to make none of them are correct. Even in the old West gun control laws were on the whole rather strict.

Terrific! Thanks!

Guns&Ammo.com! Hillarious!

I suggest everyone down loads the link and read the comments at the bottom about why New Zealand is not on the list

I thought you were being ironic, but no, you really are into all that stuff

Would you like some copies of Padlock Monthly or Burgler Alarm World?

The list includes Norway and Switzerland who have citizen armies together with Serbia and Honduras! This is supposed to be funny? Great gag!

I will spare you the deaths from firearms per 100,000 statistics

Haha!

It must be from Monty Python!

Who better to know countries where it is easy to own a gun that Guns and Ammo magazine?

Who cares about NZ? Is it a topic of this thread?

I didn't flame you. Why flame me? Just because I'm an American and own guns? How does that effect you?

If America scares you don't go.

A previous poster was debating the extent of the bashing as opposed to fact exploration.

These are your flames/bashes

1. Terrific! Thanks!

Guns&Ammo.com! Hillarious!

2. I thought you were being ironic, but no, you really are into all that stuff

3. Would you like some copies of Padlock Monthly or Burgler Alarm World?

4. Haha! It must be from Monty Python!

To the poster above who wondered if the bashing was real.

You and that lady above seem to think America is the only country that allows gun ownership. Not true.

How do you know this?

Ask some of em how long they've been working there.

That would imply you actually knew how old they are now. I find that Farang are lousy judges of Thai female age to the point of absurdity.

Fine. Ask em how old they were when they started working at the bars.

That would imply they were telling you the truth.

I assume by your statement that you have never met an underage girl in a bar and are only referring to legal women who told you about their past.

These girls are all over the place on Sukhumvit and Silom, and work the bars, brothels, etc. throughout TH. And yes, many times their parents put em up to it or at least condone it. We can argue the morality of that against the perceived or real needs of these individuals all day. To me, the sick part is many times the john is totally unaware of how young the girl might be and in unknowingly committing a sex crime.

How do you know this?

Ask some of em how long they've been working there.

That would imply you actually knew how old they are now. I find that Farang are lousy judges of Thai female age to the point of absurdity.

It's a scary place to get sick or have an accident. I'd hate to have a serious accident and be waiting for an ambulance in Thailand. Honestly it's something I dread.

The other thing is food standards. There's little to no regulation. One example is Thai peanuts and corn. The stuff grown here would never make it to the dinner table back home due to mycotoxins.

Proof that any topic can be turned into a Thai bash with just a little thought.

President Obama was on International TV last week, he stated that the US was prepared to spend billions to combat terrorist activities but they were not prepared to spend anything on domestic firearm abuse.

Says it all.

No. Obama disapproval rating in May 52%.

Are you saying that the US congress is prepared to spend billions on gun crime.

No they are not and that is one of the reasons most Americans disapprove of Obama.

These girls are all over the place on Sukhumvit and Silom, and work the bars, brothels, etc. throughout TH. And yes, many times their parents put em up to it or at least condone it. We can argue the morality of that against the perceived or real needs of these individuals all day. To me, the sick part is many times the john is totally unaware of how young the girl might be and in unknowingly committing a sex crime.

How do you know this?

11 pages of US bashing TV is on a role here with its hate.

Ahhh The old scream US bashing whenever someone has the temerity to disagree with your liberal thinking on any matter. We suffer the same thing here in the UK whenever someone dares to criticise the likes of immigration etc. There they scream Racist to simply shut down any argument.

If you can't argue your opinion then keep quiet for me.

Don't get me wrong here. Banning guns doesn't and never will stop gun crime. It certainly hasn't in the UK.

I would rather look further into why so many people on psychotropic drugs go on to do this type of heinous crime but that would mean having a pop at the big Pharma and they are the real big boys in this game not the guns or the NRA

OH and just because you disagree with something doesn't mean you hate it like you infer.

Again that is just a pathetic attempt to shut down any debate on a subject you are struggling to defend

Who is trying to defend? Posts like, "grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!" are not literate debate or contribution to the thread they are simply bashing.

He gets accused of this stuff, he denies it.

The accusers don't stop, so he fires a bunch of his top people.

The accusations amplify, there are demonstrations calling for his resignation, and he declares the accusers to be unpatriotic.

It's Nixon all over again. Doesn't he know how this ends?

I'm waiting to hear "the Malaysian people are tired of hearing about 1MDB."

I beg your pardon! Nixon was a crook and liar but didn't steal 700,000 million.

President Obama was on International TV last week, he stated that the US was prepared to spend billions to combat terrorist activities but they were not prepared to spend anything on domestic firearm abuse.

Says it all.

No. Obama disapproval rating in May 52%.

Not suprising when firearms can be bought as easy as a coca cola from seven eleven.... A Ban on firearms is long overdue - sure the cowboys will cry its against their freedom and right to protect themselves. But the rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!

Perhaps you should look at the firearms laws in the USA they vary by state as it is the United States of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Why are you afraid of Americans having guns? How does it affect you?

You wrote, "The rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!"

Among the best countries for gun owners are Finland, Sweden, Canada, Norway and Switzerland.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-countries-gun-owners/

Of all of the points you try to make none of them are correct. Even in the old West gun control laws were on the whole rather strict.

On a foundation of feudal patronage you simply cannot build a democratic structure

Magna Carta

The good thing for our daughters is they don't have to send money home...

Here lies the problem in Thailand-------greedy families not wanting to manage on their own money----have kids to earn money to support their needs. and not bat an eyelid where it comes from. Or care about the kids future who has not got a cat in hells chance to save. The kid actually will say I love my mom and have to support her.

This is a tradition that needs to stop. Mothers and fathers that not have enough growing a field of rice GET OFF YOUR <deleted> and go away to find work, if you do not like it then do not expect your kids to do it.

Girls very young working in Pattaya, when anyone asks mama where is she working mom says Chon Buri, SHY ?? but knows what she does.

It's not always the parents putting pressure on them. The girls often do it to their selves unnecessarily...

They go find work in Bangkok or somewhere. They have things like hot water or a kitchen with more than just a dirt floor and a bucket bbq. Maybe a washing machine.

They want to improve the lives of their parents... the reality tho is that a lot of what they buy them, they don't need or even have any interest in.

The parents turn a blind eye, not only because they want the things their daughter buys them, but in some cases they know their daughter will do it with or without their approval...

Before I met my wife, I had no intention of every going to thailand, because my view of thailand was not good. The whole prostitution thing was not acceptable to me. But after I spent some time in a thai village, and I saw the hardship they suffer, I started to understand more.

Thing is tho when you see how they live it seems they suffer, but the reality is their needs are not the same as ours, so they are not suffering anywhere near the same as we do in such hardship. I'd die if I only had rats and bugs to eat, but they eat them with relish!

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I'd never be poor enough to eat haggis.