newnative

'Speeds up' just means talking blah blah blah faster. Nothing concrete mentioned, as usual. And, on another thread, Bangkok's opening has been slowed down. Plus, vaccination targets are not being met so nothing speedy there, as well. So, a typical day of conflicting reports, flip-flops, set backs, and little meaningful accomplished.

I suppose I must be missing something but, for local economies, and local workers, wouldn't 100 regular members of the 'tuna fish gang' with regular retirement incomes be far better than 1 millionaire 'caviar' consuming resident? The millionaire maybe buys 1 or 2 supercars so 1 or 2 car sales and servicing. The 100 regular retirees buy lots more cars so lots more sales and servicing at a variety of car dealers. Ditto for everything else, many more of everything--condos and homes, both sales and rentals, and using local services and local workers for personal grooming services, house cleaning, handyman repairs, laundries, health care, pool cleaning, gardening services, and supporting restaurants and lots of other businesses. So, Thailand is setting off on its quest to find a few millionaires. As always, spouting impossible pie-in-the-sky potential numbers which will be periodically greatly reduced. Meanwhile, more meaningful numbers would likely be achieved with streamlining immigration rules and paperwork, relaxing the foreign quota rule on condo sales, allowing foreigners to purchase 1 plot of land with a maximum designated size, an optional foreigner health care plan to help keep older retirees here, and reducing many high taxes on items to a more reasonable figure.

As always, likely way too many cooks in the kitchen working on these 'incentives', the result being an un-tasty, overcooked, very expensive dish that will not be appealing to very many. Pity they didn't work on improving the menu for their regular diners already here and already spending their money supporting lots of local economies. They would have found that they would retain more of their current meat and potatoes customers and attract far more of these same valuable customers, rather than looking for a few, elusive, rich gourmands who are far more likely to dine elsewhere.

My partner and I have a condo on the 37th floor of our building and we still hear the noisy motorcycles--even with the windows closed. The cars and most trucks are no problem--it's always just the horrendously noisy motorcycles you perfectly described.

I think the sign tax thing is if the sign is only in English. That is why you'll notice with a lot of signs the English will be in big letters but somewhere on the sign you will also see the name in smaller letters in Thai.

Still way too complicated and impractical. Just be fully vacced and you're good to go--anywhere. I do agree with the guy that all the wacko names for all the wacko schemes should be consolidated into just one wacko name--hopefully one without meaningless letters. (Is it STV or SVT or TVS?)

I think I recently saw the Thai government is planning a third shot of, I believe, AZ in October for those who got 2 shots of Sinovac, which my partner and I did. We'll see if that actually happens. Meanwhile, we contracted for Moderna boosters several months ago but have no idea if or when they will ever arrive.

Sad story out of California. Couple in their 30s with 4 kids, oldest 7. Mother died of covid shortly after giving birth to their 5th child. Not vaccinated for covid. Husband died a few days later later, also of covid; unclear if he was vaccinated, I would bet not. Earlier there was a similar story from Texas, both unvaccinated parents dying from covid, leaving 4 children as orphans. Yes, what a bloody mess.

Everything's relative. The first Bangkok getaway condo my partner and I bought was a 24 sqm (count 'em!) studio. Despite the small size, we had a Thai king-size bed with enough room to walk around it (I hate beds pushed right up to a side wall), ample eating space for 2, a comfortable, leather electric reclining sofa for tv watching, a clothes washer hidden in a kitchen cabinet (I hate visible clothes washers in the kitchen), lots of storage, and a full-size fridge with automatic ice maker. There was even a small balcony big enough for 2 small chairs. It was sort of like a small, well-designed stateroom on a ship. We would probably still have this condo but it was just too far from the nearest metro station--around 900 meters. And, we decided we wanted a condo with a true, separate bedroom rather than a partially screened bedroom area. So, we sold that condo and bought a 1 bedroom over twice as big, at 52 sqm, in a different project. Just around a 2 minute walk to the same metro station--which at my age I like. I think you can make something livable no matter what the sqm you are working with. 48 sqm--after having just 24--seems plenty big enough. And, condo projects these days come with so many nice amenities to enjoy.

The 'real point' is there in your first sentence '...lots of businesses are closed...' . They certainly are. And, that was not the case, pre-covid. It's so bad now that posters have remarked that even 7-11s and Family Marts are closed, let alone all the hotels, restaurants, entertainments, and just about everything else related to tourism in Pattaya. So many local people out of work; many lining up for food handouts. Were all these now closed businesses being kept open, pre-covid, by non-tourist package, high-roller tourists? No. That's the reality. Do any of these many, many laid off local workers give a toss that Thailand may see, in your words, a '...lesser % of their holiday spending' with these tourists? No. What all these laid-off workers care about is they were getting 100% of their salaries in 2019 when tourists of all stripes, including your 'pre paid and or budget packages' were coming. Now they're getting 0% of their salaries. That's your 'real bigger picture'.

5% is standard for established agencies in Pattaya.

I agree. I used to live in Reston, Virginia, a 'new town' in northern Virginia outside of DC. Very pricey area of the US. In 2009 I sold a 1 bedroom condo at Reston Town Center, one of the priciest parts of the town, for $247,000. Willow tells me it is now worth around 260,000, although a condo just sold last month in the same project for 269,000. So, figure a price increase of around $22,000 in those years. Yes, the price went up but I wouldn't call it skyrocketing. I could return to Reston and afford to buy a condo there, though not a large, single family home like I have now in Pattaya. When I lived in Reston I thought I might retire somewhere like Myrtle Beach, SC. Checked Realtor.com and I could buy a 2 bedroom/2 bath condo in what look like nice projects for around $150,000. Some were listed in the $130,000s. That was just a quick look, likely others for less. Again, affordable and a 1 bedroom would be cheaper. There likely are places that prices may be skyrocketing but there are plenty of others where the values are going up more normally.

Feel free to stick to the facts, as well. I never said you were the poster of that tidbit about property being worthless. You obviously totally missed the point of my post, which was that properties can rent or sell--even in the same projects--for all sorts of different amounts depending on many things. According to one of your posts, 6 MB houses in Bangkok rent for 13,000 baht. Rather a blanket statement but even disregarding all the factors that go into one house renting for more or less than another, it doesn't mean that that's the case in Pattaya. You're welcome to check some of the projects I mentioned in my post to get some idea of the varied house values and rents for single-family 3 to 4 bedroom homes in Pattaya, which may be and likely are different than Bangkok, or other areas of Thailand. Looking for one house selling and renting for specific rental and sale amounts is a pointless exercise, for all the reasons properties differ. Can one be found? Likely. Do I want to look? No. Does finding one mean anything, other than this particular house rents for X amount and sells for Y amount? No. But, search away if you are so inclined.

You're never going to win with these posters. They aren't interested in important nuances like how a place looks, what is the quality and location of the project, the size and quality of the house and furnishings, etc. The whole package. They aren't interested in the nuances that make one house rentable for 35,000 or 40,000 and another only command 20,000 or less; one property sell for a million more than another down the street. It's the same with prices on both condos and houses for sale. And, it explains why this property sells at a profit and that property might not. It can be dozens of different things--which makes it all so interesting, fun, and challenging. But, they aren't interested in all that. Easier to not actually do any homework. Easier to not actually get out there and see what's what. Easier to just post vague claims with usually no actual examples to back up what they are claiming. Surely we all remember the claim that all Thailand condo buildings have a life span of just 30 years, after which they promptly crumble to the ground. I believe that was later corrected by another poster and amended to 20 years. At the time I was reading this distressing news I was bravely sitting in my Wong Amat beachfront condo, no hardhat, in a building built back in 1984. Earlier this year we had someone post that houses in Pattaya were now virtually worthless. Well, if I remember he was actually even vague on his vagueness because I think he also said they had all lost 50% of their value. So, take your choice--either worthless or worth 50% less, in his learned opinion. Any real world examples given to back up his claim(s)? Not a single one. Meanwhile, my partner and I had been house hunting around Pattaya at this same time. We certainly would have liked to snap up a now 'worthless' house at, say Silk Road, or View Talay Villas, or Siam Lake View, or Jomtien Park Villas, or Siam Royal View, or Baan Balina, or Palm Lakeside Villas, or Baan Fah Rim Haad, or Horseshoe Point, or Mabprachan Garden, or Paradise Villa, or . . . Well, you get the point. We searched high and low and did not find any houses that were now 'worthless'--or even priced 50% less. Are there some bargains to be found with properties for rent and for sale? Sure. Is everything suddenly worthless or priced 50% off? No. Probably not surprising, but quality homes in quality projects seem to be holding their value, both in rentals and sales.

My partner and I have been renovating a house and that has kept us busy. We are looking forward to traveling more and socializing more as the covid restrictions gradually ease.

Sorry, not buying your argument. I suspect 99% of the tourists, rich or not rich, visiting Pattaya have no idea the building is even there. And, I doubt it would stop the 1% that did know about it from coming. "Honey, there's an unfinished building in Pattaya. Let's find somewhere else to go."

I think you're on the money with your estimate of 35,000 baht. My partner and I live in a nice gated project near Lake Mabprachan in Pattaya. Did a quick search for rentals in our project and the range was 35,000 to 65,000 for large 3 to 4 bedroom pool homes with 3 to 4 baths. 65,000's a stretch with covid but 35,000 isn't. No doubt there are, indeed, houses somewhere for 9k a month but I doubt they are large 3 bedroom, 3 bath, come with a big pool, and are in good, well-maintained projects with good security.

I feel the same about every property I have bought to live in, both here and in the US. I'm not buying it as an investment, I am buying it to live in, to enjoy, and to put a roof over my head. And, like you, it's not 100% of my life savings, either. I like being an owner, having my own space to do with as I want. Life is short--I don't want to spend the rest of mine in a landlord's space, sitting on his furniture, looking at his taste in everything, not being able to make changes like tearing out the kitchen. Tiptoeing around hoping I don't break something. Just not for me. Nothing wrong with renting or owning, by the way. Whatever makes one happy. For me, that's owning. If someone is happy renting, that's great, too. I do always hate when someone comes along and posts that I could do much better financially if I rent and invest the money instead of using it to buy my home. They seem to assume it's an 'either/or' deal. You either rent and invest or you own and don't invest. You can do both. Someone remarked awhile back on some thread that they didn't want to be the richest guy in the cemetery. Me neither.

Great post! Thanks for sharing. Nice to read a positive experience. Welcome to Pattaya.

Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Florida anymore.

Following too close. Not maintaining proper safe distance. Black car's fault.

Wonder what 'end of covid' that could be.

Apparently the word 'concrete' was mentioned but, as always, nothing concrete laid out in regard to actually doing anything. Just more meaningless catch words bandied about.

Terrific post. Thanks.

Pity the actual initiative was such a flop. But, hey, an award-winning flop. Pop the corks. Oops, no alcohol allowed.