4MyEgo

Interesting, thanks for that. Surely the 2 year period is a one off for former residents, I say that because the section below, copy and pasted and link provided, isn't really clear about having to repeat the process, e.g. if one was to return for short periods of time after qualifying and having their Age Pension portability approved. It only discuses former residents returning to qualify, and then go back overseas. If one had to repeat the process, that would be a real pain, e.g. lets say I went back, qualified, then returned to Thailand after portability was granted, and I wanted to return for a 2-3 month period say twice a year at most, maybe once a year, but lets say twice a year, for whatever reason, then had to start the process all over again, fark that. I mean lets assume I am staying with family, have no lease in my name, no utility bills in my name and am travelling around Australia for parts of those 2-3 month periods, I wouldn't have really re-established residency as far as I can see ? Interesting to get thoughts on this and ay members who do return, stay for a while then come back, and of course other members interpretations, as I wouldn't want any surprises if I did go back as I possibly plan my sneak attack, so to speak. Portability for former residents - Age, DSP Since 20 September 2000, a former resident who returns to Australia and is granted Age or DSP, or who transfers to Age under SS(Admin)Act section 12, cannot take that pension outside Australia if they leave within 2 years of having resumed residence in Australia. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from travelling to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas. The 2-year period includes, as separate full days, the day on which the recipient returns to Australia to resume Australian residence and the day on which they leave again. There is no discretionary power to allow portability of Age or DSP during the 2-year period (note, some exceptions to the 2-year rule apply - see below). Payment may be suspended for short overseas absences during the 2-year period and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) will not impact on the end date of the 2-year period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 2-year period). https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/4

Here is a question to all who have been back to Oz to get the Age Pension, stayed the 2 years for portability and returned to Thailand to live. My questions is if one goes back, stays for 2 years, comes back and then goes back again, (short stints of say 2-3 months), then leaves again and does this year in, year out, can it impair ones Age Pension portability, i.e. Centrelink stop payments when you leave again, it's just that I heard something on those lines, but can't find anything to confirm it. I did also hear that if you were in Oz, 2 years prior to the Age Pension age, portability was instant once the Age Pension was approved and there was no issue coming and going as many times as you like.

Only he can answer those questions. His rent quoted sounded very cheap to most of us, myself being from the eastern states where a similar unit in a similar location would be between $350-$450 per week, and since he provided the receipt, I could see the address, and having the tools to check, i.e. units in the block, can confirm the $'s he is paying is pretty much on par to what an investor would receive on their outlay. Last sale in the block for a 2 bedder in 2023 was $290,000, so if they are renting it for say $300 a week, their return is 5.38% gross which isn't bad, that said, the higher the return on residential, the lower the sale price, meaning it's probably old, higher strata levies, away from infrastructure and it would take longer to sell, rent, that said, $240 a week in anyone's language is cheap, it just depends on where you prefer to live and with who and with what facilities you would like, meaning you will pay more, and the sale price would be higher based on the location, age, etc etc.

Having had a look at the block of (10) units, i.e. an early 70's, motel style 2 level walk up building with average sizes of units being about the size of a one bedroom unit, meaning 2 bedrooms is tight in todays standards, but good for a single bloke. From what other units have been renting and selling for in the building, e.g. condition, level, parking, size of the unit, location, it's about the money for the unit vs the return the owner is getting, and not wanting long vacancy and selling periods, the owner has probably suggested to himself and with the agents advice not to increase the rent in fear of losing the tenant and the unit being empty for a long time, i.e. the unit wouldn't be in high demand. I would suggest you don't have any parking as there appears to be limited parking available, albeit it only saw 2 spaces at the front. So there we have it in a nutshell everyone, Maylands WA for a cheap, small 2 bedroom unit in a suburban street, albeit it I would think that you will need a car to get around, as I can't see transport and shops being close by, the airport is about a 20 minute drive so might be hearing the big birds coming over every now and again. Personally for me, it doesn't fit the bill, but your $240 a week serves you well, it kind of reminds me of Lakemba in Sydney where I wouldn't live, but the rents are cheap, e.g. $350-$400 a week for a similar place. it all depends what one wants, could I live in it, sure, but being spoilt, I need modern, with pool, gym, spa, sauna, and of course shops within a couple hundred metres, which includes public transport.

Is that for the garage or workshop you rent ?

Unfortunately the Australia Government, be it the ATO or whoever, just love it when we in one way or another say we are leaving home, e.g. ATO, oh is that so, well have a great time, just remember to pay 32.5% on everything you earn from Australia, plus your 10% withholding tax on interest, don't worry, we will make sure you can't vote as well, and cancel your Medicare when you have been out of the country for 5 years continuously and don't bother trying to claim anything to reduce your tax liabilities, because we won't allow you. ATO continues, ah yes, you wanted to leave the lucky country and not accept things for the way they are, you know things like high interest rates, excessive rents, and then there is the cost of living, oh well, enjoy your new life while everyone else suffers 😍. Yes the 10% withholding tax deducted from interest earned, e.g. $100 interest, $10 deducted is miniscule.

I can tell you this much Georgie, you can read, but can't understand what others write. Try again, you might get it this time. The bus driver suggestion is so you, you can finally meet real people while driving them to their destinations, who knows, maybe even pick up a Sheila or 2, I mean if that is your preference, and of course it would probably pay better and beat the heck out of spending most of your days on forums while cleaning offices in that empty building at nights, or have it as a 2nd job to make more money to add to your million $ superannuation account for when you retire here in the LOS, the 2nd job part could even help you pay for your $3,000 a quarter strata levies and you taking the Sheila's to McDonalds for dinner, before taking them back to your studio in the bus. I know, I'm a genius oi, and your welcome. Apply straight away, and get that studio before someone else takes it, As for a studio, as mentioned, I have a family, bunks in a one bedder is a great idea, thanks, but a fold out in the loungeroom would be better for the kids and provide some privacy for me and mum, not a single bloke Georgie, I have a life. Wow, I'm on fire this morning, to think I just got out of bed, and not even a coffee. Your the man Georgie, and fire back with more thoughts when your ready as I am always up for your gas suggestions. Have a nice day now, Georgie the bus driver, now that's catchy, you know like, Bob the builder

Correct Correct Correct, and the reason for that I would suggest, is because non-residents cannot claim anything back come tax time, you are merely submitting a tax return on income earned as a non-resident, e.g. if you have an investment property, you cannot offset any losses under the normal negative gearing scenario, albeit it, you can, if I recall correctly claim back some items when you sell the property to reduce your capital gains tax liabilities. SAPTO would be a totally different situation when it comes to the ATO.

So you have money that shows the balance is over in your rental account which your agent has advised will be paid forward as rent balance from the period 26/02/2024 to 10/03/2024, however it doesn't show anywhere that you are paying what you claim, i.e. $240 per week, which without proof of rental receipt means SFA to all of us.

Yes, thanks, I am well aware that the Age Pension is based on eligibility criteria, i.e. (Asset & Income Tests). What I was banging on about was how long it would take me to recoup my outlay to go from here back to Oz to get it and stay there for the 2 years to have it made portable. For starters, I would require an airfare ticket (domestic) to get to BKK, then an airfare ticket (international) to get to Australia, and of course it would have to be a return ticket so that I can come back and see my family once a year for a short break, e.g. 2 weeks. Then I would require return tickets for the family (3) to visit me for the school break, e.g. March-April. So I would require 4 return tickets (Domestic & International) per year for starters. Then you have rent to pay, now for a decent one bedroom unit (not cockroach infested in Sydney with facilities such as a pool, gym, sauna, I would need to pay $600 a week as a minimum, that also being within a skip to train and bus transport & shops like Woolworths and or Coles. The Age Pension for a Single bloke is $548.00 per week ($1,096.70) per fortnight with supplements, so I am already out of pocket on a weekly basis, then I have electricity, groceries, car if not using the public transport system, and to be honest, I think the public transport system will have to do so as to keep the costs down on having a car. So 2 years in Australia on the Age Pension wouldn't cover my costs to live there, just looking at the rent I would be required to pay. I would suggest that I would be out of pocket at least another 2 years of Age Pension money before I recoup those costs to live there for those 2 years, that is why I said that I would be 71 before the Age Pension money would start flowing to me, i.e. money in my hand here in Thailand, and then I would have to consider whether it will be worth it with the New Tax Code and if they implement Article 18 of the Double Taxation Agreement between Australia and Thailand which has been in force since 1989, however not really enforcing the tax on Age Pensioners that I am aware of to date, but are within their rights to do so, will they, well that is up to them, something to keep an eye on that with the New Tax Code, and if they do, go down that path, you have the deductibles and the threshold to claim, so it could be a minimal tax one would hope, but something to consider when doing the calculations. I suppose if I went to a different state, or went bush and lived in cheap accommodation for 2 years and didn't have the family come over for 2 months a year, I could reduce my outlay and maybe save a year on the recouping of the outlay, but life is meant for living, and living for me means comfort, so I won't cut back on the things I like, especially having family time. I workout if things are feasible and if not, will give them a wide birth, which I think I will do when I am Age Pension age. The other thing I did mention was to buy a place to save forking out $600 a week on rent, then it would make it worth it, but I would have to make sure I could get my money back in 2 years, plus the stamp duty, legal fees, agents advertising costs and commission, then it would be probably be down to an almost break even point apart from the airfares, but could consider those as an annual expense anyway. That's the skewed way I do my feasibility on whether it's worth going back to get the Age Pension, did I mention that if I did buy a place, that I would lose out on the tax free returns that I make per year here which is about double what I would be getting on the Age Pension, as I would require those funds to buy a place, suffice to say, your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.

Keeping the thread going as I found this article interesting which again, supports what I was saying about the age pension in Australia not being taxed, "if it is your only source of income". https://www.firstsuper.com.au/retirement/planning-for-retirement/super-and-the-age-pension/#:~:text=Tax on the Age Pension,your only source of income. Please continue reading below the highlights in the link as it makes it more clearer as to when the tax free threshold applies, again, if you have any other sources of income, it will get added to your age pension amount and the threshold will come into play, as will you paying tax, that said, if you have no other income, then no tax is payable IMO. Naturally as an Australian Resident for tax purposes, you would have to lodge a tax return stating what you have earned in that tax year, and if it was only the Age Pension, then you won't be paying any tax. Be interesting to hear back from others if they believe it's any different to the way I am stating, all except one person please, as I am not interested in his views or opinions of any kind.

As expected, it didn't take long for the high jacker to high jack this topic. Oh well, I'm not going to respond to someone who has no idea what he is on about, sighting DTA's in other countries that have nothing to do with the current status here in Thailand, clearly no idea on what I was talking about.

We basically don't eat out, why, well when the chef states that the food is not prepared as fresh as hers, doesn't taste as good as hers and is cooked in the same cheap oils, not to mention hygiene. You won't dare argue with her on that as they are all relevant points. The above said, we mostly eat European at home, and we don't skimp on food costs, imported beef, lamb, olives, cheeses etc etc. When I feel like Thai, the chef will whip me up a couple of Thai dishes, it can be anything from stir fry chicken with vegetables and cashew nuts, tom yum kung, puk poung (morning glory) as a side dish with olive oil, garlic and chilies, pork spare ribs in a lime style soup with vegetables, (Bangkok spare ribs) as we refer to them, the ribs basically melting as they fall off the rib as they enter your mouth, sometimes eating the bone as well as they're as so soft as and enjoyable to boot, curried prawns with stir fried vegetables on a bed of Basmati rice, Penang chicken with homemade pita bread as a wrap with lettuce, avocado and tomatoes. Never met a woman who loved the kitchen as much as the bedroom.....sorry fellas, they broke the mold when they made this one. Only complaint is that she takes her time, so when she says she is going to cook, best drink a big glass of water because that hour wait can feel like forever until her blessed hands finish the finest food you have ever tasted, made with love, thank F when I order dessert it's instant 😍.

Your obviously taking these to help you get up, so to speak, which tells me that your blood circulation isn't at it's best, which could lead to the Number 1: killer, heart disease which breeds heart attacks. The above M&M's as I refer to them as, do the job of speeding up your blood flow, which in turn, helps you to get up, so to speak, now imagine if you have a few narrow arteries from say; not eating right, not exercising, etc, etc, and as the flow if flowing at a faster pace, then the blood clots in one of your arteries, well that could and more than likely, lead to a heart attack, which you may or may not survive, depending on how much of a blockage formed in your narrow arteries. I used to use those M&M's as I refer to them to help get me up, so to speak, they were the best thing ever for me at the time since my manhood would let me down most of the times, other times he would become a semi-conductor, that said, no one wants failure in that department when taking a nice piece of cake to task. All I will say is, don't make the same mistake I did when on those M&M's, i.e. perform more than 3 times in a day, otherwise you may not live to regret it, heart attack ensured, fortunately I survived it after a stent was inserted some almost 2 decades ago, now I hear or read guys talking about those blue pills and say, there is nothing better than a stent to get the blood flowing, my Cardiologist laughs when I tell him that I'm 21 again, and tells himself that he should have one inserted. Perhaps you should do a dye test or some other modern test that can be carried out these days to tell you how narrow your arteries are before you drop another pill, which might be your last ? If you do the test, it might cost you, but how much is your life worth, and at that stage you might decide how many years you've got left and if the cost to get a stent inserted (if required) is worth it for you rising to the occasion for many years to cum. Keep it up

I thought I'd start this topic off, and thank Will27 for starting it as a new topic, as the Age Pension topic which was run for over a decade was highjacked, making it virtually impossible for anyone to sift through it, as most of the comments, including mine were off topic of late, while arguing with a particular member about Age Pension tax and the Double Taxation Agreement, DTA, Australia has had with Thailand since 1989/90 and it's interpretations, in particular Articles 18 & 19 where it discusses taxes on Age Pensions (Article 18 & Government Pensions under Article 19). Hopefully the same won't happen here, and I will ask anyone who is contributing to it, if stating what they believe to be facts in their opinions, then to back them up with a link, so that we can agree or disagree with what the facts are and whether those links are credible or not, again, links provided sorts thing out very quickly for the majority of members. Now to get into it. From my understanding/interpretation, if you like, Age Pensions paid to Australia expats living in Thailand since 1989/90 under the DTA have been blanketed from paying any tax in Australia as the DTA states that Thailand (the state) where the expat/resident resides shall pay tax, pretty straight forward for the majority of members to understand, i.e. Article 18 which is what the Age Pensions falls under, end of story on that. Now with what's new. Issued on 15th September 2023, Revenue Order 161/2023 mandates that from 1st January 2024, any and all foreign income, from all sources (whether from employment, business, pension, or from overseas assets) will be taxable in Thailand when it's brought into Thailand regardless of when it was brought into Thailand. As you can see above, the word pension is clearly visible, however this new code, albeit it is new to most of us, the DTA has been around since 1989/90, so what's changed and are they after the Age Pensioner, well in my opinion, NO. Why do I say that, because they wouldn't require a new code for that as they have the DTA which allows them to tax Age Pensioners since when the agreement came into play, i.e. 1989/1990. I won't go into how would they even enforce this as it moves away from the topic, suffice to say these are my views, i.e. they aren't after the Age Pensioners who have been contributing to the Thai economy on what amounts they get, i.e. around 50,000 baht a month for a single Age Pensioner. I take it that they are after the bigger fish and to that, I will leave it there until I here some Age Pensioner here on AN or elsewhere complaining that he received a letter from the Thai Revenue Department to cough up on his Age Pension. Now with regard to tax on Age Pensions in Australia, from what I understand, residents of Australia have a tax free threshold of around $32k after having been approved for Seniors and Pensioners Tax Offset, SAPTO, expats can also apply for it, i.e. you don't have to be a resident of Australia to get the offset. So I can say Age Pensions are not assessible income in Australia for residents of Australia, unless they surpass the threshold, and one doesn't have to be Einstein to know that assessible income, isn't assessible until it becomes assessible, i.e. you must go over the threshold for it to be assessible income, and remember, thresholds are there to reduce your assessible income, to a lessor amount of tax that you would normally pay, or no tax in the case of an Age Pensioner, i.e. if he doesn't have any additional income which would push you over the threshold, so it's either assessible, or it's not, simple really. https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1989/36.html https://atotaxrates.info/tax-offset/senior-australians-tax-offset/

My dream would for annual extensions to be and the Thai Government to grow some balls and stop lying to everyone every year about the thick smoke that is being burnt here, stating that it is coming from neighbouring countries and apply heavy fines to sugarcane factories that keep accepting burnt sugarcane. While they are at it, they can also fine and put farmers in prison who start those fires so that I can walk to the front gate at 6am to unlock it, as I do every morning, but without coughing and splattering.

It appears that my calculations in my above post, were wrong once again even with the 150,000 threshold. I stated 9,400 tbh would be your tax liability, wrong. Not saying the western consultant at a Thai branch of an international tax agency is wrong about the 190,000 threshold, but unless you see something in writing to quote what he/she has stated, I would stick with what the Thailand Revenue Department has quoted as the threshold, i.e. 150,000 baht, that said, if he is correct and there is a higher threshold for residents, i.e. individuals who remain in Thailand for (180 days) or more, then that would make your tax liability around 24,440 tbh pa, I therefore stand corrected and admit I was WRONG, however the below tax scale calculations that were also provided are CORRECT for the single full age pension. Your initial post of setting aside 24k tbh sounds correct, based on the 150,000 tbh threshold, i.e. 24,440 tbh Thai Tax Scale Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt 150,000 – 300,000 5% = 7,500 tbh 300,000 – 500,000 10% 20,000 tbh 500,000 – 750,000 15% 15,000 tbh Total tax payable = 42,500 tbh on single full age pension.

Not disputing the amount of possible future tax that you may have to pay, without even thinking about any alleged new DTA's in the Matrix.....LoL, but from the tax scale I had the threshold is slightly different, see below workings based on your (part age pension) using 23 baht as the exchange rate. $1,700 x 12 = $20,400 pa @ 23 tbh = 469,200 tbh - First 150,000 tbh is Exempt, therefore = 319,200 tbh (taxable remittance below) 300,000 @ 5% = 7,500 tbh tax + 19,500 @ 10% = 1,950 tbh tax = 9,400 thb tax in total Thai Tax Scale Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt 150,000 – 300,000 5% = 7,500 tbh 300,000 – 500,000 10% 20,000 tbh 500,000 – 750,000 15% 15,000 tbh Total tax payable = 42,500 tbh I stopped at the 500,000 - 750,000 tbh bracket because the age pension is around 50,000 tbh x 12 = 600,000 tbh pa Be interested on your thoughts I my workings, and or why your exemption of 190,000 is more than what I found, e.g. any deductibles in it ?

Can I enquire as to how you derived at 24k tbh tax on the age pension ?

These contraptions shouldn't be on the roads, however we all know cops here turn a blind eye, if it means they have to work for no extra money, only time they will get involved is when someone has an accident, then blame who they think fits the bill and will take their cut out of it.

This is very good advice, I recall Will27 suggesting it sometime back, and I am temped, however, there is some kind of weirdness watching a madman type away for hours, thinking he is right about his future predictions (scaremongering) that no one here is interested in, albeit I think I have also become mad to read his posts. His constant deflections and unwillingness to accept that he is wrong, supports my theory/judgement call it what you may, and not responding to him directly as I stated that I wouldn't, although difficult at times, has saved me hours on end, trying to save someone who lost it a long time ago, and I don't even know the bloke, which is the funniest part of it all. The above said, I am now heading off to block him as I am sure it will give me less brain damage and more time to read stuff relevant in today's world, not tomorrow when they are going to drop the nuks...just before I get my age pension, and was going to pay my ZERO taxes to Thailand after I take out all of those permittable deductions. If HK is reading this post, which I know he will, all I have to say is, keep up the good work in your own mind, but not here, do we have to beg....LoL

Someone suffering delusions of grandeur stated on their 2nd last post on page 201 that I said that you don't pay tax on the Australian Age Pension in Australia. Perhaps he can read my post reply to Will27 on post on page 189, I could copy and paste it but that would take all the fun out of it. The above said I doubt that it would make one bit of difference because a horse with blinkers on, won't turn to look.

Someone who's name eludes me at the moment has been banging on about old age pensioners who are residents in Thailand paying 15% tax. Clearly he still has no idea what he is talking about. You see, according to my calculations, it's 7%, why, because the first 150,000 THB is the tax free threshold. So it goes like this for those interested, e.g. Age Pension for a single bloke is about 50,000 THB x 12 = 600,000 THB. Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt 150,000 – 300,000 5% (7,500 THB) 300,000 – 500,000 10% (20,000 THB) 500,000 – 750,000 15% (15,000 THB) Total tax payable = (42,500 THB) Then you have your deductibles as Lacessit has mentioned in a precious post, that said, by the time you get your deductions out the way, you will end up paying pretty much ZERO tax on your Age Pension. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/deductions After all of the above, I suppose we should be biting our fingernails for when this alleged new DTA arrives....LoL

Same rhetoric year in, year out, yet we still see all the fields go up in smoke while they line their pockets and we breath in the smoke.

THB 60,000 about 5 years ago. Big house, so cart it around from room to room when I want. Hospital grad, not for everyone's budget, that said, I see it as a long term investment that has already paid itself off, because you have never breathed fresh air till you have used one of these. Besides, you only live once, so might as well, breath well, especially here with all the smoke.