4MyEgo

So you won't admit that you were WRONG, considering that there are no winners or losers, your words. I don't see you gloating anymore, your tune has changed, but you have still not admitted that you were WRONG, a key word you used to throw in our faces, come on now, be a man, own up to the fact that you were WRONG, trying to deflect it, doesn't help you grow. I just point out to you, that Age Pensioners don't pay non residents tax, that is what you asked for, but you haven't said you were wrong, deflecting again, nice try, there is only 5 letters in the word. Deflecting again. Do you now agree or disagree that Age Pensioners that are non residents to a country with a DTA don't pay the 32.5c foreign resident tax in Australia, even though the Age Pension is deemed as an income. I am waiting.....LoL

Come out, come out, to play, we are all waiting for your reply to my posts. You did ask me to provide you with more links, and you did say: "No confusion here". "Blake tells Bob he will have to pay 32.5% tax on his pension. Seems clear to me". https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/relationship-between-the-new-thai-tax-law-retirement-visa-holders-and-long-term-residency/#:~:text=A Double Tax Agreement between,Article 18 of this DTA. What do you say to Blake now ?

Pretty big pill for him to swallow, oi....LoL

I believe that after reading the DTA, in particular Article 18, (see 3 posts back), that they would have to change that Legislation and I can't see that happening as they are not after Age Pensioners, and as such, they are protected under that piece of Legislation in my opinion.

You asked, but can you accept it, I wait with bated breath for you to admit that you were WRONG, and to make it easy on you, i.e. that you don't read the whole legislation, Article 18 should make it easy for you. https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1989/36.html Come on, admit it........LoL

Naturally that will depend on whether you accept my interpretation of the findings and legislation provided to me and read here on this forum. I have always said, it always depends on who you talk to, because not everyone is up to speed on legislation, some are good readers and interpreters, others lazy and just buying their time. It's a 50/50 mixed bag, that's why I always search for Legislative material because it's finale. Minimal damage, as Lacessit has stated below: " The first is you can only be taxed on income received and transferred after January 1, 2024. If you can prove what you are transferring is from savings prior to that date, no tax is payable. I've already got screenshots of my savings for that eventuality". "The second is to marry a thai. For someone solely on the OAP, the amount of tax payable after various allowances is fairly miniscule. IIRC, I calculated it as 5000 baht pa". I have a Thai bank account and a Thai wife, but don't have a TFN and until they become compulsory, I won't have one. The Age Pension is a few years away for me, and now that after reading the Article 18 and 19, I am of the opinion that the Age Pension is definitely not taxable in Australia and hasn't been taxable in Australia since the DTA came into existence, hence the reason Age Pensioners i.e. non residents of Australia living in Thailand haven't had to pay tax. The above said, that may all change now with the Amendment of the Revenue Code Act, which came into effect on 1 January 2024 as LosLobo pointed out above. If anyone reading this post who is in agreement with my interpretation, i.e. non resident of Australia i.e. Age Pensions for this topic, are subject to tax in Thailand only, (if enforced) by the Thai Government, give me the thumbs up, alternatively please reply with your reasons as to why you think Age Pensions are subject to the non resident tax of 32.5c to the $. I have copied and pasted Articles 18 & 19 of the below Act, and have interpreted Article 18 2. to be relevant to Age Pensioners living in Thailand as non residents, i.e. are subject to paying tax in Thailand and not Australia. Australian Treaty Series 1989 No 36 DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE CANBERRA Article 18 Pensions and annuities 1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State. 2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration in money or money's worth. Article 19 Government service 1. Remuneration (other than a pension) paid by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State to any individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions shall be taxable only in that State. However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the recipient is a resident of that other State who: (a) is a citizen or national of that other State; or (b) did not become a resident of that other State solely for the purpose of performing the services. 2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State.

Misunderstanding, only those who are over here and are not on the Age Pension, will need to return.

Correct, for those who have been in Australia for 2 years leading up to pension age, they can have it made portable, those returning must return for the 2 years, not 183 days. I say not 183 days because the legislation states that it cannot bend those rules so to speak.

Agree with you and Lacessit. The above said, if it ever did pass, it definitely wouldn't be feasible for lots of expats to return for the 2 year prison term. Others might have to as they will be under the 40k baht amount required as you mentioned. Fingers crossed, as I know HK prays every night it gets passed so he can say, see, I told you so, and if it doesn't, we can ask him what other scaremongering he has to offer us so that we don't get bored.

Agree, if the change ever happens.

Correction, the per month reduced amount of the Age Pension would be 11.960 baht using 23 baht as the exchange rate for this calculation. I previously used the fortnightly amount as the monthly amount, my bad, suffice to say the Age Pension for a single bloke, would still be reduced by $120 per week after the 32.5c in the $ was enforced, and SAPTO came off of that, meaning the pension amount would be around 38,000 baht per month, down from around 50,000 baht per month. I would say that a single bloke could still live off of that here, rents are cheap, food is cheap and electricity isn't too bad, depending on where you live, that said, you wouldn't be running a car, a bike is doable. Workings as follows: $26,000 annual pension x 23 baht per $ = 598,000 baht - a Non resident tax of 32.5c in the $ = $8,450 @ 23 baht - $2,230 SAPTO = $6,220 to the ATO. Therefore $26,000 - $6,220 = $19,780 @ 23 baht = 454,940 baht/12 = 37,911 baht per month.

It's been a while since I did the calculations, maybe it's per fortnight, I will revisit it, thx.

That is my strongest argument, "only source of income", i.e. as I have always maintained, if you have other sources of income, then that gets added on top and you are taxed appropriately. If they do tax Age Pensioners as Non Residents, if they don't have any other source of income, then worse case scenario as I have mentioned in previous posts, it's $120 per week after SAPTO, which I believe isn't a great amount living here. So you drop from 49,833 baht per month to 45,448 baht per month - (4,385 baht) per month, I suggest a single bloke can still live here on that amount.

Double post

Click bait....got us all.

I know when I finish up, I provide many ladies with the Zombie, now that's another story not for this forum.

I have said it till I have turned blue, Age Pensioners do not pay tax if their only source of income is the Age Pension. Do you accept this or not ? https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/superannuation/2022/06/05/pension-taxable-income Nowhere on the ATO website does it state that Age Pensioners have to pay tax when living overseas, do you agree ? https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/australians-living-overseas

As you are aware, there is no link that states that Age Pensioners pay no tax, or that they pay tax. I have posted links before and I have stated my opinion/s, and as it stands, as far as I am aware, Age Pensioners are not taxed on their pensions, i.e. unless they have additional income sources. When I do find such a link that states that Age Pensioners do not pay tax on their Age Pension as non residents, unless they have additional income sources, the same as Australian Residents for tax purposes, you will be the 1st to know, but will you accept it then LoL

That's quite ok, we all have differences of opinions, especially when there isn't enough clarity in my opinion that states that Age Pensioners, because they are deemed as Non Residents, pay tax on their Age Pension. Until such time that I also obtain such clarification, I will believe what I have researched and read, suffice to say, I cannot understand why some people (with respect) believe an Age Pensioner, because he/she chooses to reside overseas on Welfare (Age Pension), would be taxed any different to a Resident. The above said, Age Pensioners do not pay tax unless they have other sources of income, on top of their Age Pension and that is my argument. https://superguy.com.au/retirement/how-much-can-a-pensioner-earn-before-paying-tax/ Feel free to read the link above and as it doesn't stipulate the word Non Resident, I still see no reason why the ATO would stick it to a Welfare recipient because he/she decides to reside overseas.

Read it how you like, but I see no reason why it would be any different to Non Residents. https://superguy.com.au/retirement/how-much-can-a-pensioner-earn-before-paying-tax/

Just for the sake of it, I have sent an email to the ATO moderators to clarify if Blake is correct or incorrect, let's not hold our breath, but I will reply as soon as I hear something back, to put this to bed, whether I am correct, e.g. no tax for Age Pensioners as Non Residents if the Age Pension is their only source of income, or tax payable at $32.5c in the $ as a Non Resident with or without any additional income source.

Read Blakes reply, which confuses not only Bob, but a few others I take it, as Bob asked a simple question, yet gets a totally different answer, i.e. Blake didn't address his question as if he only receives the pension as his only source of income. I will be retiring overseas soon on Australian age pension. I will be non-Australian resident for tax purposes and therefore I will not have the benefit of the tax threshold. My basic tax calculation on ATO site show that I will be paying approx. 30% tax on the age pension, where there would be no tax if resided in Australia. Is this correct? Hi @bob1306 Not quite. As an Australian resident for tax purposes, you would pay income tax according to resident rates. This means you'd be eligible for the tax-free threshold up to $18,200, and your tax on the income between $18,200 and $45,000 would be 19c per dollar. You would need to report and pay tax on your worldwide income, not just the age pension. This is where Blake starts to confuse the issue at hand, by carrying on about your worldwide income, then adds on, "not just the age pension", Bob didn't ask about that, did he, he just asked about the age pension, and Blake didn't answer it clearly in my opinion. It's tax on top of the Age Pension, e.g. other source of income combined. As a foreign resident for tax purposes, you will pay income tax according to foreign resident rates. This means for all income under $180k, you'll pay 32.5c per dollar. You would only report and pay tax on your Australian-sourced income to us. You'll likely be eligible for the seniors and pensioners tax offset (SAPTO) though, meaning you'll get a tax offset to help counter the tax payable. You don't have to be a resident for tax purposes to receive this. You can read about individual income tax rates and SAPTO on our website.

Unlike some, I do continue with my research and can change my opinion, that said, I was providing you with other examples, e.g. worst case scenarios. My latest research shows me that as I mentioned above, the age pension is not taxable if it is your only source of income, regardless of residency status. I am now done with this topic, nothing to prove.

Buying and selling shares on the ASX for one, ZERO capital gains tax. I suppose I'm making that up too.

If you maintain a property, you have a good case, however, I believe you didn't mention this in an earlier post.