Tod Daniels

If you are going to the Changwattana Immigration Office in Bangkok; go downstairs to the basement and there are MANY shops that will do pictures for you.

If you are going to some other Immigrations Office , I don't know, and seeing as you didn't say. Well then, bad luck 4 U, huh?

At Changwattana I am 1000% sure my information is correct . Anywhere else, figure it out yourself . ..

While I am certainly NO great fan of Benjawan Poomsan Becker ; she's probably done more to help foreigners learn thai than any other thai national ever has .

She has a series out called "Speak Like a Thai". Volume 5 is entitled; Northeastern Dialect. It comes with a c/d and a small companion booklet. It'll at least get you going in Issan Dialect.

I also dunno (nor particularly care ) why you say that electronic devices aren't allowed in a temple. In almost every temple I've been to in Bangkok (and I've been to more than my fair share) most all the young(er) monks have I-pods, I-Phones, Game Boy’s PSP’s etc. When they use their I-Pods, you can see the 'small-talk' (ear piece) stuck in their ear but they have the cord surreptitiously hidden under their orange robes and the I-Pod itself is in their little orange pouch/purse that they carry.

I'm relatively sure given that you're trying to learn another dialect, instead of listening to the latest music or playing shoot-em-up video games that it might be okay . Then again, maybe not.

Here are three different thai language questions lumped into a single post ;

The first question is;

How do you know when a การันต์ cancels out more than one character at the end of a word? I don't have ANY problem with deciphering engrish loan words spelled in thai but just with thai words.

Are they just irregular words which must be memorized as a person comes across them or are there some guidelines to identify them when you see them? The example I'll use is the province สุรินทร์ (Surin). Had I not known it was a province (thereby already narrowing the list to 76 possible choices), I could easily mispronounce it. I might even go so far as to imagine that the น was both an ending consonant and a beginning consonant for the next syllable. It could come out as Su-rin-not by thinking the garan only canceled out the ร. Any insight into this would be appreciated.

The second question is;

(Which I already used it as an example when I mispronounced Surin), how do you know when a consonant is a stand alone or both the ending sound and the beginning sound in the next syllable? Let's use a word like สถานการณ์ (situation). If I didn't know the pronunciation already I'd probably get it wrong. The same is true with พจนานุกรม (dictionary). How would a person discern that จ is both the ending consonant and also acts a stand alone one for the next syllable?

These may be mundane questions and I could be trying to parse this language to death, but I'm practicing on improving my reading skills, and when I come across a word I don't know I'll try to sound it out as best I can. Obviously if I don't know the word, I still don't know its meaning but at least I know what it might sound like. I'm nearing 455 on guessing how they sound syllable wise (and far less than that tone wise but that's a horse of a different color) so I feel quite disheartened in my efforts.

The last question (in this oh-so lengthy post ) is;

When you read thai aloud, how do you know where to pause in a sentence? I've been practicing reading out loud with a thai friend using one of the Andrew Biggs books called วิธีพูดภาษาอังกฤษเหมือนฝรั่ง. It's pretty much written in ภาษาพูด so other than a few words a page I know the vocabulary. What I don't know is when to pause when reading a thai sentence aloud. Unless I take a big breath before reading some of the longer sentences I run outta steam at the end. Without commas in thai, what are the trigger words where you can pause when reading aloud? So far I think I have figured out you can pause at ก็ at แล้วก็ and และ as well, but are there any others? My thai friend says sometimes I pause in the middle of an idea, and that when you read thai out loud you can pause at each action or cause and effect.

Thanx to the thai language pundits on this forum for even reading this far..

If you haven't fallen asleep already, please respond.

เอ๊าะ is clearly the same as its Cockney translation, spelt hot and pronounced 'o'!.

Spot on. SNIP!!

Possibly 'spot on' for anyone who happens to know what a Cockney accent even sounds like.

Ahh the perils and pitfalls in trying to represent thai using engrish letters and pronunciations with the plethora of accents out there world wide for engrish.

Sure makes learning thai seem easier than tryin' to parse out a word in 'karaoke' engrish.

I have a friend who constantly calls me with words he reads from some engrish thai dictionary with the whacky karaoke engrish, Half the time, even knowing the meaning of the word he's tryin to say I can't make it out. Of course his thick Glaswegian accent doesn't help .

Now if he'd just learn to speak something closer to american engrish, I'd bet we'd be on the same page.

Sometimes the waiting times are sketchy. I haven’t been able to figure out any rhyme or reason to why sometimes it’s swamped with people and other times there’s no one, but it’s been my experience that Mondays and Fridays are the busiest out there. Although FWIW the queues definitely move faster than they ever did at the old Suan Plu location.

I just accompanied a friend to secure another year's extension of stay based on retirement. We got there at about 12:30 (Immigrations is closed until 1:00 for lunch). That gave us enough time to get his photo, make his copies, etc and still get in line for when they opened the doors. At 1:00PM we went in and were the 3rd number they called. His extension of stay was finished well before 1:45PM.

However securing another re-entry permit is always a small cluster-fuc_k there, seeing as they no longer sell ‘em at Suvarnabhumi. That took another 45 minutes.

Still, it’s a LOT better than Suan Plu ever was.

Make sure you use the entrance on the SOUTH side of the GIANT building or you're in for a VERY LONG walk indeed. Take Changwattana Soi 7 and go all the way to the end of it before turning right and you'll end up right in front of the correct entrance.

To your question about residence; my friend was on his 3rd yearly extension of stay and they didn't request it from him.

In answer to your bank letter and bank book question; you need copies of all the pages in your bank book (update it the day you go), and the letter from the bank confirming there are the proper funds in the account as well. Most of the major thai financial institutions have offices in the basement of that building.

What it sounds like they did, was overlook the re-entry permit you had and stamped you back in the country using the second entry of your double entry tourist visa.

Out at Bangkok Immigrations in Changwattana they have an entire area devoted to "visa stamp corrections". I'd go out there ASAP and see if you can get it sorted.

Showing the Immigrations officer that you had a valid re-entry permit BEFORE you exited, they would probably give you the remainder of the days you had on the first entry, and re-activate or re-validate the other entry for use re-entering thailand after the first one runs out. (Then again this being the glorious "Land 'O Thais", possibly not ).

If you happen to have a spare thai person lying around I'd take them along with you too . I imagine you're certainly not the first foreigner this has ever happened to so it may be something theyve seen before.

Just for the information; when you came back in country did you get stamped in for another 60 days by Immigrations at Suvarnabhumi?

Although I'm sure you checked before you posted. A quick perusal of thai-language-dot-com for the word กะ revealed the following meanings;

1. to; with; also

2. [colloquial spelling of] กับ

3. to estimate or guess, to reckon, plan or plot

4. shift; turn

5. guess; rough estimate

6. [colloquial abbreviation] and; &

The 1982 RID info on there also says this about it;

กะ ๑ /กะ/

[นาม] เครื่องหมายบอกทำนองสวด เช่น กะมหาชาติคำหลวง, ทำนองสวด เช่น สวดกะ.

[นาม] รอบการเข้าเวร, ระยะเวลาที่ผลัดเปลี่ยนกันทำงาน, เช่น กะแรก กะที่ ๒.

[กริยา] กำหนด, หมาย, คะเน, ประมาณ.

กะ ๒ /กะ/

[วิเศษณ์] ใช้รวมกับคำวิเศษณ์ เช่น เหมือนกะ ราวกะ ถึงกะ.

[บุพบท] ใช้นำหน้าผู้รับพูดหรือรับบอก เช่น พี่พูดกะน้อง เขากล่าวกะฉัน เขาบอกกะท่าน.

กะ ๒ /กะ/

[สันธาน] ใช้แทนคำว่า กับ เช่น ยายกะตา, ใช้แทนคำว่า แก่ เช่น มีกะใจ. (เป็นคำเสียงกร่อนมาจาก กับ หรือ แก่).

กะ ๓ /กะ/

[นาม] เครื่องประกอบสมอเรือชนิดหนึ่ง ช่วยให้ขูดดิน.

It's a pretty good company and is run by a thai guy named Philip. Do a Google search using "Quick Thai Visa Run"; their website comes up near the top of the search returns.

I used them when I was on a Non-Immigrant Type O visa and had to run-4-the-border every 90 days. That's the one which leaves from the "Baanrai coffee shop" at Ekamai and it goes to a border which is NOT busy; so you're in and out really quickly. The busses are new, free lunch is provided, and I've found it's a far better value than Jack's Golf takin' you to the 'cesspool' of a border crossing between Thailand and Cambodia; Aranyaprathet/Poipet often times in old as the hills mini vans .

I've also used Philips Vientiane Lao service to get both my ED visa and my first single entry Non-O based on retirement. That's the one which leaves from Soi 71, and most people use ot to get a double entry tourist visa.

I give 'em 'three' thumbs up

The numbers for the company are;

"Quick Thai Visa Run"

089-024-5255 (mobile)

02-713-2498 (office)

DISCLAIMER: I have NO affiliation with the company, and am only providing my first hand experience with their services.

If you take the escalators down to the basement of the GIANT building out at Changwattana where the immigrations office is located there are copy shops, photo shops, and most every major bank has a branch there. There are also coffee shops, two thai food courts, an S&P, Chester’s Grill, and even a 7/11.

You can easily make the copies you need and get photos out there in just a few minutes.

From what I saw when I was out there last week with someone who neglected to make copies the people in the copy shops are pretty dialed into what copies you need.

It completely baffles me that a seemingly innocuous thread titled; "Selling Queue Numbers At Vientiane Thai Consulate" has turned into yet another "my dick is bigger than yours" all out pissing match.

How this thread even began to discuss the moral virtues in regards to paying for or not paying for a low queue number ticket I also have abso-tively posi-lutely no frickin' idea.

NEWS FLASH, in every country, no matter if it is a first world one like the UK, US, a 'developing' third world one like the glorious "Land 'O Thais” or a truly third world one like Lao PDR; where ever tourists congregate there are people who will try to capitalize on either their ignorance OR their ability to pay for better service. It is economics 101; if there is a market for a specific product or service people will sell it. To the "holier than thou" crusaders single-handedly trying to stamp out what they broad brush label as 'corruption'; sadly I think you're pissin' into a might strong head wind with your lofty ideals .

It was the same way up there a couple years ago before the thai consulate moved to the new location. There were Laotians outside the old locations gates willing to sell you the form (which is actually free), fill it out for you, make your copies, take your photo, etc. FWIW; they were doing a bang up business just because people showed up without a clue. Now if you have even half a clue and enough time you can do most anything here in S/E Asia by yourself. At the end of the day it all comes down to how much money is your time worth.

If you're doing nothing but killing time by floating around S/E Asia in an effort to embrace all the oxymoronic cultural aberrations the indigenous natives do in ‘this neck of the woods'; please by all means take the moral high ground; stand in line.

You'll show them, won't you?

It never ceases to amaze me the number of foreigners who line up to ink things on their skin without letting their inability to read and/or understand the thai language get in the way.

Many of the things westerners want translated don't lend themselves to being done in a word by word or literal fashion. This leaves a GIANT gap in what you want people to understand when reading the tattoo and the actual meaning any thai would get out of reading it. Some things I've read on foreigners are just nonsense, and even asking a thai friend what it means, often times they'll say, "It's nothing, just garbage, no meaning in thai.."

To a person the thais I know, find it strange a foreigner would tattoo something on themselves in a language they can't read.

As an example; just the other day I was in the Top's Market Food Court in the basement of Robinson's at Sukhumvit Soi 19 eating lunch with some thai friends. A 30+ something y/o foreigner with his obligatory thai significant other aka his 'thai-in-tow' came in. BOTH of his forearms were covered in at least 3/4 inch high thai script, I mean TOTALLY covered. It also had each thai word separated by a space from the next, (something BTW not EVER done in the thai language). It was obviously a 'work-in-progress' as some of the words were only outlined and not inked in totally. I never was able to read it and FWIW neither were the thais I was sitting with. For all I know it coulda said something like; "If this severed arm is found please return it to the following address."

While I am reluctant to "piss on anyone's parade"; I caution the T/V forum patrons (especially the younger headstrong ones), think carefully BEFORE you ink something into your skin in a foreign language.

Ask as MANY thais as you possibly can what they think the meaning is without telling them what you really want it to mean. In other words don't 'lead' them to the answer. Thais are brainwashed from infancy into non-confrontation, and will give usually agree with you rather than tell you what you want reads like total nonsense.

Also remember simple 'conceptual' things in english often times cannot be rendered in thai without a lengthy description, giving far less 'bang for your baht' as far as a good looking or widely understood tattoo.

If you're still hel_l-bent on getting a thai tattoo, go to a temple and have a monk use that bamboo stick 'n needle to get one of the traditional buddhist tattoos on your shoulder. Unfortunately the script will NOT be thai, but as you probably can't read thai anyway you won't notice. Those types of tattoos are thought much higher of by thais overall than the b/s thai worded <deleted> most foreigners end up with.

Again, sorry to seem negative, and in all honesty I could care less what you do to yourselves. I'm only relating what I've heard from thais concerning the often times goofball and/or nonsensical thai worded tattoos foreigners proudly wear in an effort to 'embrace their inner thai-ness'.

Good Luck. ..

Posting web-links to competing forums is against this forums rules.

So in staying within the rules ; I'd suggest a quick Google of the term(s) "Nakhon Ratchasima Forums" and/or "Thai Language School Nakhon Ratchasima" just to see what you get.

FWIW: I'd give a pass on the previous post by Colabamubai unless you're intending on going to a 'real' uni . Given the numbers of foreigners who live in and around Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat) there hasta be at least a couple private thai language schools who are registered with the Ministry of Education and can meet your needs in regards to the documentation you need to secure an ED visa.

I wouldn't pay a single baht up front to ANY school until you sat in on a free class to see if you get any 'bang for your baht'. The last thing you want to do is pay tuition to a school whose method and material of teaching thai to foreigners is not a good 'fit' for how you learn things .

With tourist visas to thailand free at the moment, get a double entry tourist visa and come scope it out first. There'll be plenty of time to find a school and get the documentation you need to secure an ED visa in a neighboring country.

Then again, depending on the country you live in now, perhaps a quick call to a thai embassy or consulate would let you find out if they'll give you a single entry ED visa only on your intent to study thai once you get here.

You're out nothing but a phone call to check. ..

The glorious "Land 'O Thais" has NO shortage in superstitious beliefs . It is by no means only an Issan thing, and is found almost everywhere in this country from the bustling city of Bangkok to the most rural one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere . I doubt seriously the thais thought all the things they are superstitious about up themselves, (but thais will take credit for anything if you let them ). A lot of it has to do with the heavy degree of influence Brahmanism and Animism that has been adopted into thai culture and religious beliefs over the centuries.

I think they may also hold the unofficial world record of being the country with the largest number of different kinds of ghosts. To get an idea, here's a link about some of the types of thai ghosts.

http://ghostsofthailand.com/Thai_Ghost_Types.html

Also here's a funny Sylvania light bulb commercial which shows several of the more popular thai ghosts.

It also uses a funny play on words in that ผีขนุน (phee^R kha^L noon^R) or 'jackfruit ghost' is a thai euphemism for an ugly ladyboy or katoey. Up country they are known for standing under jackfruit trees .

When nothing you see here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” ever gets more than a passing glance. Be it the inane antics of the indigenous natives or the insane antics of the foreigners .

As an example; last year I had guests from the US who’d never been here before. I stupidly agreed to walk with them down the Sukhumvit from Asok to Siam Paragon.

It took several hours as they had to gawk at every thing I routinely walked past without a glance; the limbless beggars, an elephant ‘parked’ outside a 7/11, the tourist junk they sell on the sidewalk, the 5 people holding arm loads of groceries on a moto-cy, and things too numerous to even begin to mention.

Just goes to show how much you learn to ignore if you see it every single day, day in day out.

Funny you posted this. ..

The soi I live on has a LOT of people from India living on it, and to a person the thais working on the street refer to them as แขก. It's only definition of the word I knew.

Today I was just looking at some apartments and the lady showing me said it had a large ห้องรับแขก. I took her telling me that to mean it had a special room where "you received people of Indic origins", lol. I'd only heard of a living room in spoken thai as being a ห้องนั่งเล่น the "room where you sit and play".

I saw the apartment and alas there was no room to receive people of Indic origin anywhere to be had , but there was a HUGE living room . I kinda caught on that the word had another meaning. Then quite by accident walking home I stopped in a hotel which had a sign in the lobby saying that this area was reserved for guests who stayed there only. It used the word แขก for guests/customers.

Learn another meaning for a word every day and you'll know a lotta words eventually (unless you promptly forget what you've learned like I do . ..)

FWIW: if you have all your ducks in a row (and they're quacking in time ), a yearly extension of stay for either marriage or retirement is not fraught with peril like some posters allude to.

Yes, there is often a pile ‘o paperwork to be done. .. Yes, there are hoops to jump thru of varying sizes and heights. .. Yes, the rules may seem oxymoronic compared to the rules in ‘your country’. .. (NEWZ FLASH for the thick ; you're not in your country, your in theirs. Their country; their rules, play by them ). If the rules say wear green flip-flops to apply for an extension of stay, my suggestion is go buy a pair of green flip-flops .

It is my experience; if you have your paperwork filled out correctly, if you have the proper copies of your passport, etc (signed), and have it collated in the correct order, that things go pretty darned smooth. It is also my observation that attitude (as in YOUR attitude) makes up a great percentage of the overall ease in which you achieve your goal. If you cop the slightest attitude towards the immigration officers; I've seen first hand the wheels of progress grind to a complete halt and even sometimes switch into reverse.

I have found following these simple steps can garner the best results;

*Never EVER raise your voice

*Never have any expression but either a neutral one or that 'dopey thai smile' on your face

*Don’t fidget

*Don’t speak unless spoken to

In other words never do anything but sit silently and let the official in front of you do their job. Believe me if they have questions, they'll ask you. While you might think engaging them in idle chit-chat, may seem 'cutesy' is just a HUGE time waster overall.

In shepherding hundreds of foreigners to the old Suan Plu and now Changwattana, following the above outlined act; I've never had a problem. Sometimes even though I held a far higher queue number than was currently being called the immigrations officials who know me would 'jump' me and the person I was with ‘in’; just because they knew my documents and paperwork would 'fly' first time outta the gate.

In many situations receiving an 'under consideration' stamp is not unheard of. Neither is giving a 90 day stamp for an extension of stay based on retirement when converting from a tourist visa, and then having the person come back when there's about a month left on that stamp to receive the rest of the year's stamp. It seems to be up to the particular immigrations officer you're dealing with, and their mood at that particular time, on if they're gonna do it in one felled swoop or make it a two step process.

It's not rocket science or decoding the human genome, it's just the correct paperwork, and a good attitude. Sadly my experiences are ONLY in Bangkok. The same cannot be said for the immigrations offices upcountry who are their own little fiefdoms in and of themselves and who interpret the immigration rules as they see fit .

I wish more posters would put their positive experiences on the forum as it seems mostly filled with complaints.

WOW, I concur, this thread really took a tangent!!

FWIW, it is also my experience that foreigners who learn thai from female teachers will sometimes early on in their studies have a slightly different inflection than ones who learned from male thai language teachers. IMHO male thai language teachers are awfully thin on the ground; as it seems to me to be a nearly totally female dominated profession.

I'm not saying the foreigners were คะ, ค่ะ or น่ะจ๋า'ing, but they had an inflection which was apparent to thais who heard them speaking. Once they (the foreign students) got the confidence to use their own voice's timber and tone they straighten out, but I have seen it with my own ears .

I still remember a russian guy in my language class (at a school which shall remain nameless); who mimicked the teacher to such an extent that he spoke thai in a falsetto voice. This was a 250+lb, 6'6" tall guy. FWIW he spoke really clear thai, just with a Mickey Mouse kinda voice. It’s been more than a year since I went to school, but I did happen to run into him a few months back by chance when I was out and about. Now he speaks in his normal voice, so a big plus for him in that regard.

Hopefully, if the thread hasn't run its course, and doesn’t get closed by the Modz for going so far off topic it will veer naturally back onto the title of the thread.

I will even provide it (the title of the thread) here for the incredibly thick or just plain stupid ;

"As Soon As You Opened Your Mouth They Probably Knew Where You Learnt Your Thai From"

I have also heard that term used in the foreign frequented nefarious-nite-life areas. It is usually spoken by female employees when talking about another working girls worthless as tits on a bull (in)significant male thai other.

They are the kind which drop her off to work at 7PM and then does nothing but sit at home, gambling, drinking, and hanging out with his friends, all the while his girlfriend is busy bringing in the baht.

So the meaning is pretty close to the actual insect as far as relying on the female of the species for the necessities of life; in this case money. It is my experience that it is a totally disparaging remark, (however in the circumstances I have witnessed it being spoken; it's usually taken without any rancor whatsoever by the receiving party).

As an aside; I do find it mind wobbling that the thais seem to have the ingrained ability to ignore something which they don't see with their own eyes, or don't want to acknowledge as true; hence the term ไม่เห็นไม่รู้ or if I don't see it, I don't know about it. ..

I wouldn't take something like that (even if said tongue-in-cheek) off a thai I didn't know without calling them on it immediately. It was humorous to read of his sudden about-face when you questioned him about it.

I try to follow the words of wisdom from Gene $immon$ of the rock band KISS;

"Don't take shit off anyone, EVER!"

It's a good adage which has never failed me.

The US soda pop known as Mountain Dew (which I was totally addicted to) is now nowhere to be found. It was here when I first moved here 5+ years ago, but evidently phased out shortly after that.

Another thing I can't find here is three level incandescent light bulbs (50/100/150 watt) like we have in the US.

Speaking of good quality socks, in the US they have a brand known as Gold Toe, (probably due to the gold colored toes). They are super durable and are something I've never seen for sale here either.

After being here long enough, you’ll either dumb yourself down to accepting the thai equivalent of something close to what you want , or make contacts with people who frequent your home country enough to bring you bits and pieces of what you need.

I’ve found it's the little things you’ll miss the most. Things which in your country you could pop out and buy anywhere, but here often end up in a day long sojourn to many places only to find out; "thailand no have"

Listening to thai t/v is still a very tough slog for me as well, especially the news with the plethora of Ministries of this or that and near endless list of Ministers of Parliament who all have 'mile-long' names. Add the use of near constant thai abbreviations in the mix and it is indeed a 'tough row to hoe' .

I watch that show on Friday nite by Christopher Wright called Chris Delivery. Where he teaches english to thais. Its a totally campy show but is easy to follow. They have the english phrase and the thai equivalent on the screen, so your reading can improve too. Theres also another show on during the weekend by legend in his own mind Thomas James Lavelle; known in thailand as ท้อดท้องดี <sic> (Todd Good Stomach ) actually it's really ท้อดทองดี . Its not a bad show either and often times quite interesting. Another thing I have found of value is to listen to AM talk radio shows; which due to the call-ins have a wide variety of accents and are usually not that hard to follow.

If you're watching an American movie on True Visions (UBC), especially one you've seen many times; toggling to the thai language version, following along with the thai subtitles and listening to the spoken dialog can help your comprehension.

I do find it somewhat tedious that the same 5 or 6 people do thai voiceovers for every fricking movie I've ever listened to in thai . Sheesh that group must be in the 50's or 60's by now, when are they gonna get a new generation of voice over people?

Good luck. ..

I downloaded and have used Thai-Typing Tutor Version 1.04c when I was first learning to type thai a few years ago and it has always worked fine. It never froze, and I never had to 'hit the space bar between letters'. It lets you add text files (notepad) into the lessons to work on your own material and/or tricky words. It charts via a graph improvement (or not) both by accuracy and speed.

For Freeware it's great; although early on I'd have preferred a sound when I pressed the wrong key, but hey it's free. I learned to type thai totally by touch with it, so I'm NOT complaining.

I would guess, if one of the versions you downloaded sticks or doesn't work, uninstall it and find another site which offers it. I think Version 1.04c was the latest fix they ever did. Then again, I’m here in thailand and bought my p/c here as well with a thai keyboard already, so your mileage may vary. I just checked my version and it has an email of “gurce(at)bigpond.com” for contact about the freeware. Maybe it still works, dunno.

Learning to touch type thai or even using the "hunt and peck method" is more tedious than even teaching yourself to read thai. It did take quite a while to get the hang of the 'shifty-ness', and the use of characters which on the english keyboard are rarely if ever used. For example to type the simple informal thai greeting สบายดีรึเปล่า you type the following keys; “l[kpfui7gx]jk”.

I have also found when typing thai the "finger load" (number of characters which a particular finger types) is disproportionately skewed to using the right hand's two outside fingers (especially the right pinky finger ) much more than the rest. In doing some rudimentary research I found that's just the thai keyboard set up known as Kedmanee versus the other one known as Pattachote which evidently spreads the finger load out more evenly. However I've never seen the Pattachote keyboard in use so it must have never caught on.

It was an uphill battle to learn to do it, but once I got it down I found my reading and word recognition went up as well.

Sorry this is a long post (my penchant for verbose posts is already well known)

Once you acquire a ‘working’ vocabulary in the thai language, the next most important thing to concentrate on is structure of how thai words go together to form cohesive sentences. While it is a S+V+O type of language, there are more than a few things which can and do trip up native engrish speakers when speaking thai.

Proper word order and/or sentence structure is something which cannot be stressed enough and is often the thing which thais will say makes the difference between what they perceive as a beginning speaker and an intermediate one. Even if your pronunciation is off; if the structure is correct thais can make out what you’re saying far easier then if they have to re-order the words AND try to make out bad pronunciation too. A foreigner can have perfect pronunciation but if they don’t know how the words go together to make clear thai structured sentences they’re still at a beginning level.

I have found that using the pattern of WHEN something happened, WHO it happens to, and WHAT the outcome is, will work in most situations. I can say in engrish “I went to the market yesterday, and it is understood, but in thai simply translating the words into ผมไปตลาดเมื่อวานนี้ will give you a skewed thai construct which thais will understand but probably isn’t right. Starting the sentence with the time marker of WHEN; ‘yesterday‘ gives a much closer approximation to how a thai might say it; เมื่อวานนี้ผมไปตลาด. Granted that is a simplified example and I still probably got it wrong but the theory of “WHEN -to WHO - and WHAT” holds true

One of the most valuable books I have is called;

Thai Reference Grammar, The Structure of Spoken Thai.

It’s written by James Higbie and Snea Thinsan. It costs about 895baht at the various book stores in Bangkok and is very useful in providing thai language structure.

To give an example using the phrase mentioned in a previous post by the poster known as 'hiero'; ถึงแม้ว่า, here’s the excerpt from the book concerning it;

ALTHOUGH / EVEN THOUGH / EVEN IF

The following phrases are used interchangeably for ‘although’, ‘even though’, and ‘even if’. จะ may be included to show that the meaning is future or hypothetical, and ก็ can be placed between the subject and verb of the second clause (or the clause that doesn’t have ‘even though’/even if’) with the meaning of ‘still’.

1. ถึงว่า/แม้ว่า/ถึงแม้ว่า - ถึง and แม้ have different meanings. ถึง means to ‘arrive/reach to’ and here refers to a situation reaching a certain point (‘even if it reaches this point’). แม้ separates out a condition (‘even if this happens’). แต่ may be included as in the fourth example. Don’t confuse แม้ว่า with ไม่ว่า (whether or not).

Examples;

Even if you notify the police, you’ll (probably) never get your camera back.

ถึงคุณจะแจ้งตำรวจคุณก็คงจะไมได้กล้องคืน

Even if he doesn’t go, I’ll go.

แม้ว่าเค้าไม่ไปฉันก็จะไป

Even though she can’t speak thai, she can still have a good time.

แม้เค้าจะพูดไทยไมได้เค้าก็ยังสนุกได้

Even though it’s raining, (but) he still wants to go.

ถึงฝนจะตกแต่เค้าก็ยังอยากจะไป

2. ทั้งที่/ทั้งๆ ที - These phrases are used in the same way as ถึง and แม้.

Examples;

He gave me some money, although he didn’t have much.

เค้าให้เงินผมทั้งๆ ทีเค้าไม่ค่อยมี

Even though it’s the rainy season (but) they’re going to Phuket.

ทั้งที่เป็นหน้าฝนแต่เค้าก็จะไปภูเก็ด

3. ขนาด – Here ‘even though’ is stronger, having the meaning that even if something very strong happens the action will still go through. ขนาด means ‘size’, ‘extent’ or ‘magnitude’ and here means ‘even thought it’s reached the extent that…’.

Example;

Dam is so stubborn. Even if you don’t let her, she’ll go.

ดำเนี่ยดื้อนะ ขนาดคุณไม่ให้เธอไปเธอก็ยังจะไปอีก

I copied this word for word from the book to show you how in depth it is as far as citing usage and giving examples of the words.

It is certainly NOT a book you’re just gonna sit down and read, but as a handy reference guide it’s very useful to see how thai words are used and how they go together correctly.

Hope this helps some, good luck, don’t give up. ..

FWIW: I haven’t broken ANY barriers beginner or otherwise, but I still plug along with it.

Again I apologize for the long post. ..

FWIW; the elephant touts used to 'park' their elephants in front of the 7/11 at the mouth of my Soi while they went in and bought cheap alcohol with the proceeds from their 'begging'.

I haven't seen a single elephant on the Sukhumvit since at least Songkran.

One can only hope they've moved on as it was a sad thing indeed.

I forgot, the jamook-bee! that aint no hi-so yo

I had to look up the word you provided the engrish spelling for จมูกบี้, as it's one I'd never heard spoken. I had only heard จมูกแบน as a slightly derogatory term for 'flat' (thai) nose, but still I’d never heard จมูกบี้ before. Thanx for another vocab word!!

IMHO, there are entirely tooo many thai-gurls who've เสริม'd their จมูก's already in an effort to rid themselves of their flat thai nose.

As far as skin tone and thai peoples’ perceptions of foreigners who like that 'tint' of thai gurls; The topic has come up when I sit outside and drink with my friends numerous times. Possibly because of the HUGE number of foreigners and their significant thai other aka their 'thai-in-tow' traipsing down my Soi to eat over priced, bland, totally shit thai food at the Cabbages and Condoms restaurant.

It always starts with the question; "Mr. Tod, do you know why foreign men pick the darkest ugliest thai gurls to be with?" It has lead to some lively discussions, although no real answer seems forth coming (other than the easy access to thai gurls of that persuasion in the 'rent-2-own, or 'time share' industry in my immediate area).

FWIW, the thai guys I sit with are all of varying skin tone, and varying birth provinces like; Surin, Buriram, Songkhla, Lampang, Yasothon, Kanchanaburi etc, but I have never seen even the slightest racial categorizing or slurs directed towards each other based solely on skin tone. It only seems to be directed to foreigners with thais-in-tow or to a lesser extent thai people outside their immediate group.

Although a brief perusal of the television will lead to a person being bombarded with skin whitening products, even deodorant so you don’t have dark armpits . Sheesh, quite strange really, when you think about it critically.

"bangkokburning"; I too thought the topic has veered from the original title of the thread, but, just maybe it'll straighten itself out before it's closed.

I can neither take credit (nor the blame ) for the inconsistencies in the sheet I provided.

I copied it from a learning thai language book whose title now eludes me

Please don't shoot the messenger for mistakes in the message.